Transcrição [EN]: He Went From $0 to $100M in 11 Months — And You're Still "Planning"

We have about 1,500 ads. We started from like 50 ads maybe 13 months ago. Right now we're spending 150 grand a day, but we want to spend like 200, 300,000 a day. >> Danny Young is the founder of IM-A who grew up from zero to a 100 million annual run rate in under 1 year and landing partnerships with David Beckham and Aryna Sabalenka. >> I think individuals create their own luck. If you have the will and motivation, anyone can figure out anything. Indeed to see speed wins and nobody is faster than Danny. I'm very on all the time. >> Fair. >> Not everyone wants that. Some individuals they just want comfort. That's not the right individual for our company. You have to select people that have this ambitious wolf mindset. Otherwise, even one person you'll slow everyone down. >> So you went from zero to a 100 million-dollar annual run rate in under a year. That's unheard of. Obviously it's on the back of a lot of marketing. Let's start there. What's your marketing mix with IM-A? >> Majority right now is Meta and Google, right? So roughly about 85% on Meta, 15% on Google. Yeah, so it's been very consistent from day one on that and because we feel there's still a lot of upside for us to spend. However, with that being said, this quarter we're actually expanding into new channels as well, right? We're expanding into more podcasts, YouTube. We're going to be exploring with AppLovin as well. So these are all and of course TikTok. Yeah, so but all these channels are all going to be new to us. >> It's so crazy the amount of scale that you can get through just Meta. I think people like highly underestimate how much scale is just there. It's insane. And for the people listening to we're going to get into it further as we get into the podcast. You guys have amazing strategic partnerships. Beckham, Sabalenka, we're going to get into more of those. Obviously that helps the top of the funnel on the efficiencies in in marketing. What about the team? I think that's like for me the most interesting thing. The aggressive scale. What does the team look like on like the media and content side? Is it in-house? Is it agencies? >> Yeah, so it's majority in-house. I think if you look back at my career, I've always had strong teams, but you know, to be fair, I have a very founder-led approach. So, we limit a lot of back and forth and decision-making. So, I'm involved in a lot of different decisions, right? So, I keep myself very very busy from day to night. Yeah, and then that makes everything we do able to scale so much faster. And because the problem is a lot of times if you have whatever people 5 6 7 8 people or even more than that, your decision-making process tends to be much longer than necessary cuz everyone's talking and discussing what should we do, right? Because also at the end of the day, I have so much I would say also knowledge and experience within what has a high probability of success, so I can cut through a lot of that noise and just make good decisions most of the time. >> The wildest thing is the best entrepreneurs, no matter what scale they're at, they are still deeply in the weeds. >> Yeah. And you are definitely most still in the weeds. Very in the weeds, yeah. >> You understand and know everything that's going on. So, um we're going to say this one slow for the people out there watching. I checked your Facebook creative. How much creative do you guys have running right now in your Facebook account? >> We have about 1,500 ads. Yeah, and again, we started from like 50 ads, right? Like maybe 13 months ago. So, that's what we're consistently putting out the output. And this is so important especially for Meta, right? With the creative diversity that you need to constantly put new content out, but not just new content, but good content, right? Otherwise, you won't want to spend whatever it is. Right now, we're spending yeah, upwards about 150 grand a day total marketing. Mhm. >> You're spending like $100,000 a day on Meta alone. >> Yeah, correct. Yeah. >> Wow. And that feedback loop as far as the content goes, it's just every single day all day testing testing testing cutting and using internal team and external team. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Makes sense. >> But we want to spend like 200 once and 300,000 a day, right? And by then, of course, to be able to do that, we can't yet until we get more and more content, more great content as well. >> Yeah, I think this all backs into you guys have a great subscription model. We're going to get deeper into it. And you guys have the ability I mean, your whole entire business is really just CAC to LTV. Everything is based on a subscription. So, you can push as hard as CAC to LTV allows you to do it. How do you look at CAC to LTV? What is your ballpark CAC to LTV that you're comfortable sharing with everybody out there listening? >> Correct. Right now, I don't know when we look at CAC to LTV, the other metrics that is very interesting for us that we also look at on a daily basis is the payback period, right? Basically, how long it takes us for us to recoup that CAC, right? So, when we think about a CAC and LTV, we'll look at it from a 24-month horizon. So, right now we're targeting roughly about 3 to 3.5 on a CAC to LTV ratio, right? And then, so we're right at there. >> For people out there listening, that is a world-class number, 3 to 3.5. And from a a payback period, you guys are right in that range as well, too. >> Yeah, our payback period right now is actually under 4 months. Yeah, so under 4 months on a blended basis, even so cuz right now we actually have approximately uh three different SKUs, right? We have our daily ultimate essentials out, longevity product, and our back on stat, which is a combination of essentials and longevity. Yeah, so on a blended wise, it's less than 4 months. So, that also gives us significant confidence that we can scale this quite aggressively, right? Cuz I'm sure DTC wise, if you're at 3 to 4 months, you're probably at like excellent range. 6 months, you're good. 12 months, you're like, yeah, you're like at a you're like a C minus, right? >> Yeah, I mean, if you think about the companies, they've semi put stuff out there, like Groom is an example. I mean, people are more in the 6 to 12-month range. That's I would say that's world-class, anything under 4 months. >> Yeah, mhm. >> And that just allows you to continuously uh push. >> Yeah, as I continuously push. Correct. >> I would say that you guys almost are too efficient in the sense that you can push that harder to even to 6 months and still be highly profitable, right? >> Yes. >> Yeah. It's a good good problem to have. What about content systems? If you're putting out thousands and thousands of ads on the back end, how do you drive that flywheel? >> A lot of the push that we're doing now is with statics. A lot of the statics that we push out, again, we're using a lot of AI to be able to drive that. Videos, I think, is still almost there, but all the video content we do is actually real right now. Yeah, but of course we we augment that essentially with a combination of statics and videos. >> It's so crazy to say because our company actually over-indexed on videos, and obviously it's a way heavier lift >> even with AI. >> Yes. >> But we've actually flipped it, and we're about 75% statics, and we're seeing way, way more success. I actually think people underestimate the simple statics, that those are still working. >> Mhm. >> And you guys obviously have I mean, from a static perspective, you can just sell on just value props of the product. You can be very simple, like direct response on that. >> Correct. I I I agree. Right now, statics are I mean, it's just from production-wise speed, it's so efficient right now, right? However, I do believe right now we're actually making more investments in terms how do we scale the video portion of it, because the challenge what I see is that yeah, you have so many companies now that are make that the static on the AI is going to be so easy, right? It's going to It's going to be like a commodity, right? So, if everyone's going to commodity, then how do you do be able to differentiate against everyone else? And that's where the video and authenticity is going to play a big, big factor later on, right? So, in terms of real people, real stories, I think this in the next 3 to 6 months is all going to come to fruition. >> Yeah, I mean, it's also just about brand positioning. I love the fact that you guys are red, and we're not going to talk about Athletic Greens today, but when you look at that kind of product category, you think green, and then you guys are red, so you get that contrast. And then obviously, the celebrity partnerships, you guys can lean on that all day long. I would The first thing that I was going to ask when you said 80-85% on Meta was platform risk. So, what are those other categories you briefly mentioned it? Where are you guys looking to go to next? >> Yeah. Yeah, Clark, I mean, you mentioned even with 80-85% meta, I think we still have much more upside to do on meta before we're actually saturated, right? We at least have another, I would say, a 24-36 months even before we hit ceiling on meta, but the other platforms that we want to go into is again, YouTube, more podcasts. We haven't done much of YouTube or podcast. AppLoving, again, we have heard a lot of great great stories on there, and of course, TikTok, right? So, we haven't even experimented with all any of these channels, and we're able to do what we've been able to do with the revenue wise and growth. >> Yeah, excited to see how that works out. Where uh I would say like this new emerging channel, I would say, is AppLoving is one of them, and a lot of people are going to CTV. Those are two kind of ones that I'm hearing about more and more. I think last year was the AppLoving year. I think this year is going to be a lot about CTV. That's another big one. >> Yeah, and we also Yeah, same. We haven't even experimented with that yet, right? So, that that's what always gives us so much confidence in terms of, hey, where we're at and what what growth opportunities we have. >> Makes sense. On the retention side, the CAC, LTV, payback period, I mean, among other things, I really think that you guys are in the subscription and retention game. >> Yes. >> What are some of the those other big initiatives on the retention side? What are you guys doing to make it as sticky as possible for people to stay? >> Yeah, great great question. Again, yeah, that's something that we've been thinking quite hard about even the last 3 months or so, right? Yeah, because the first, I would say, the first, yeah, 9 to 12 months of the initial brand was really just about customer acquisition, right? And then so, that's how we thought about it cuz at the end of the day, we can't do so much well at the same time, yeah? But then the last 3 months, a big big focus has been on retention. And then so, one thing that we actually just started within the last 45 days is actually introduced a 3-month subscription program. And then so, we started this in the US last month, and then we actually seen significant success with that because what we did is the for example, in the US, our one-time purchase is 112, 1 month is 89, 3 months is basically 78 a month but you pay 235 up front, right? And then we deliver basically 3 months at one time, so that means we can also recognize the revenue at once and get given that we're a public company, that's also quite important, right? But we also just deliver one time, so we save on logistics, the customer also saves, right? So that's a great benefit because when you do uh for consumers, a 3 months, that means they give ample time for the product to work. All right? And when you give it a routine, it's also really important because when you're on routine wise, 30, 40, 60, 90 days, it becomes part of your daily habit, right? So we believe that's going to have a big big upside on the retention piece and given the success of that, we rolled this out internationally early this month and now we've seen actually more than 50% of individuals that are purchasing are purchasing 3 month subscriptions. >> I want to stop you there for a second cuz there's so much juice squeezed into that. I love what you guys are doing. First, it's an AOV game. You guys are you guys are driving up your AOV. B, your unit economics as the producer is significantly better cuz you're saving on shipping. And then C, you're delivering insane value to the customer on a per month perspective. They're getting a discount. And then D, you said something very interesting there and I think we were talking off camera about my company. It's a want, not a need and then this you said habitualization is that's an important part of your product, too, is allowing yourself enough runway for people to continue to try it so they actually see the benefits. Some of these other ones where if it's like if it's like 1 month, they might try it 5, 10, 15 times and it's not enough to actually see results. I love that strategy. >> Yeah. And then again, everyone's different, right? Some people see results in like 3 days, right? Some in 7 days, some 14, 30, 60, 90 days and we ran clinical trials on this as well for individuals that have taken it for 90 days and this was done via San Francisco Research Institute. 95% of individuals that took it after 90 days felt noticeable difference in energy levels, 85% better gut health, 80% slept better, 75% have sharper cognitive performance, right? So, 90 days is kind of like the key time period where majority of people feel that difference, yeah? But, one thing that we've also done with the 90-day programs, again, not just offer a discount, we always try to give value to that consumer, right? A why do you want to pay 90 days? Because it's actually quite significant. You're paying Right now, our AOV since we've introduced this 90-day program is $280 globally. >> That's insane. >> Right? And then, for individuals that buy the Beckham stack, they're paying $500 up front. All right, so, for a 3-month period, right? So, it's quite a lot, yeah, at least in the DTC world, right? >> We are in so early though that you still haven't even seen a long tail. That's like you just introduced this, so >> Correct. >> people aren't even on the resale yet. We're in early. >> Yeah, we're in early. >> Yeah. >> And then, one thing that we've been able to do is create value, and one key I would say USP about I Am Aim is we've have an amazing team of scientific advisory board members as well as performance trainers, right? So, these are the likes of Dr. Don from Mayo Clinic. We also got Bobby Rich, David Beckham's trainer. So, these individuals, what we provide on the 90-day program, we give access to individuals that subscribe to quarterly master classes where you can go on Zoom, talk to them live, ask questions, and they'll be providing insights in terms like, what's it like to train David Beckham, right? How does Dr. Don, she's a integrative oncologist at Mayo Clinic for 25 years. What has she seen that gives you basically hope to live a healthy life, right? So, we give access to nine of our scientific advisory board members and doctors, so you can access to them on a quarterly basis. So, I think that's ultimately providing value to that consumer. >> That's insane. I've never heard of anything like that. That's like you're that's an irresistible offer at that point. >> Yeah. >> I don't know any other brand that's ever you that. You're combining So, you're just you're driving the AOV with a subscription and just giving them access, digital access to all these people. >> Yeah, digital access, correct, right? >> And then so that's something that we're exploring right now is like, how do we even basically give more access? Right now it's starting with a Zoom, right? So we just started this like a few weeks ago, right? And then later on it's like, how do we provide more access in digital format as well? So you can log in, you can talk to these individuals and get real feedback basically by coming on board, right? Because at the end of the day, we don't want to just sell our product, it's about the lifestyle, the community, but how do we enrich people with knowledge? >> That's a great idea. For people out there listening, definitely if you have a hard product, ideate on what type of leverage and access to humans in the marketplace that you have to then give that access to your ICP. I love that idea. I've never heard that idea. I think that's going to work in spades. And since you have so many celebrity partners, too, you can start doing maybe somebody, you know, enters to win to meet David Beckham for dinner or go play a tennis match with Sabalenka. >> Oh, well, we did that already. >> You did that already? >> Yeah, we did that like basically the last month, right? We did that. We had a golden ticket to Dubai. So basically we had a lucky draw in which basically we invited two lucky winners, airfare, hotels, etc., backstage access, meet with Aryna Sabalenka when we did the Battle of the Sexes event in Dubai with Nick Kyrgios, right? So that was a very special unique opportunity, right? Just to do that. So that allows us access It gives individual access where they normally wouldn't be able to access, right? >> I want to talk about some of these partnerships cuz we're just kind of glazing over these these massive names. Sabalenka's number one tennis player in the world. Beckham is icon. Let's rewind to that night. It's summer 2023. You're at dinner with Beckham. What happened? >> Yeah, let me just give you a backstory on that, right? And then interesting thing is like a lot of this stuff it just happened organically, which is quite crazy to say, right? And even before you had the dinner with Beckham, it was I was having another dinner with my other good friend and just through my entrepreneurial network, right? And business network, good friend Michelle Lamarre. He has a big media and lifestyle events company in Asia and then yeah, he knows me and Beckham quite closely. And then I was having dinner with him and so I he's like, "Hey, what what are you doing?" He's like, "Ah, he's going to go to you meet David in London in a few weeks." He's like, "Do you want to join?" And then I was like, "Are you sure?" Right? He's like, "Yeah." Cuz you you never know if he's kidding or not, right? He's like, "Yeah, sure." And then he's like, "Oh, then like the next day he texted me. He's like, "Oh, you're you're you're you're confirmed, man." And then I was like, "Okay, let's go." And at that time, to be fair, I didn't really have an agenda because you wouldn't really think about pitching David this, right? But once we started talking etc. I think he was very intrigued um about my background cuz as I share my background what is uh is interesting cuz I had the consumer background, the e-commerce background, and then the last 11 years were running Prenetics and co-founding Prenetics was life sciences. So, the combination of the consumer and the life sciences, I think that really resonated with David cuz for David reputational risk was the key thing for him, right? If he puts his name on a product, no one's going to go after Danny, right? Everyone's going to go after David, right? >> 100%. >> And then so I think that was key to him and then I think also another key factor for David, he was like, "So many people, big brands, very influential individuals have went to him, 'Hey, let's do a supplement brand together.'" He's rejected for the last 30 years. Right? And then so And then one of the key things I said to him is like, "If we do this together, the brand also has to live beyond him. It's not just going to be another celebrity brand." The key thing because at the end of the day, if people may be interested at first, but if the product doesn't work and feel great for individuals, it's not going to have that sustaining power, right? >> Stand-alone. >> Stand-alone power. And so he was also very bought in by that because a lot of times these celebrities they they a lot of people they want to make it just about the celebrity brand. And then I think for him it's like he knew if he did this it's going to be much bigger than even him. Right? So I think we're looking at this from like a 5, 10, 15, 20-year horizon, and that's how we thought about this from day one. And the challenge in the supplement industry is like a lot of people they're looking at this very short-term. Right? So they're not making the proper investments early on from a science perspective, the testing, clinical trials, because this industry is unregulated. Right? So people tomorrow can just say talk to manufacturing and get going like 2 weeks, right? >> Literally. >> Literally. Literally, yeah. You get to something going, right? But then you can do that and you may even have success, but I don't believe you'll have long-term success. >> Yeah, I feel like it's table stakes now. You've had a couple of guests on that are in and around the space. Like being NSF certified, having clinical trials, and having a long purview on it's going to take a long time to build this brand and we want to be slow and steady and incremental. I feel like if you don't have a long-term lens and have that, you have no chance moving forward. >> It's got to be better for you and it has to be proven with clinical trials. >> Yes. >> Yeah, your website when I was on it, it was a great blend of transparency, direct response, but then also brand. And And David had a lot of rich content on there. He had some great storytelling, not only on the science side, but like him personally. Someone like him, is he an investor in the company? And what are the big things that he brings to the table outside of just his general likeness? >> Yeah, great. So you I mean basically he's a a co-founding partner in the brand, right? So of course he has equity in Pre Genetics, the parent company, which is listed on the NASDAQ. So that he has that from day one, right? And then so what he brings to the table, again, such strategic insights on the brand even to be fair when we came up with the initial product, it was David's initial, I would say, issue with supplements. He also felt was very overwhelming. And that he himself was taking a dozen, 12 13 14 15 supplements on a daily basis him and Victoria both but when they're traveling is very difficult to maintain that routine. And then so we're like a there must be a better way and so that's where we came up with daily ultimate essentials which again the USP for us is that one drink you mix it with powder and water it takes care of 16 different supplements and it tastes as good and then that was also key from David perspective say hey I don't care how great the formulation is but it also needs to taste good. Number one by default needs to be great from a scientific perspective but it also needs to taste good and the brand also has to be there right so we actually speak to his team on a weekly basis from Yeah so they're highly involved in the whole process right so many people real don't realize that but on a weekly basis we have weekly calls with their team going over our progress development what's to come and cetera so he adds a lot of value and even for our new product development yeah he has the final say in terms of taste profile so it's great in terms of such and the pro spot taste profile cuz everyone always said hey our our product tastes as amazing. >> For someone out there that knows him just as a soccer player what do you think is his superpower? What's David Beckham's superpower? >> Um yeah. >> I think he has a long term view. Right and again he's willing to take risks as well cuz to be fair when we met in the summer of 23 our yeah market cap was like 50 million bucks right which is yeah not great right? >> Right as we're going to get into it it was as high as a billion dollars down to 50 now we're almost at 300 congrats. >> Right right so we were at we're at billion dollars when we met was at 50 million so it was going down at that time right and then now we're like 350 million market cap right and the reason I think he's willing to take risks and make the right bets from a business perspective you've seen that even with LA Galaxy right when he came to LA Galaxy, everyone was thinking, why did he do that? >> Big multiple he got on that one. He looks like a genius on that. >> Right? >> Yeah. >> And he got a deal to get a your Miami team for $25 million. Right? And but that was a long-term view. That was like a a 7 to 10-year view. And then that $25 million is like huge, right? And that now what into Miami is easily worth 1.5, maybe $2 billion, right? So, but he had the long-term view cuz I think he really bets on of course the market, yeah, and the team etc. and also people. And then he's also when I talked to him, he's always trying to provide value for his partners. And that's what is really great about him is that he wants to do the best what's for the business and from a brand and also at the end of the day, every brand that he works with, he truly believes in it. >> Yeah, and I think what you've done an absolute great job of and we're going to get into more of the partners is the positioning. The people that you're picking are two things when I think of them. They're all premium and they're all international. I think that with Beckham in the next step is Sabalenka, the number one tennis player in the world. She hits the whole entire world. How'd she come into the picture? How'd you get her? >> Yeah, I mean again, it's very organic. I'm I'm so blessed and I'm grateful for that, right? And then so, how Aryna came on board was last year, last January actually, Jason Stacy, Aryna's performance and nutrition coach, he was not happy and they were actually not happy about Aryna's supplement regime. She wasn't feeling it and then Jason started taking it in January. He cuz he's always on the outlook for new stuff or new brands and he's taking for about a month, he felt noticeably better and then he suggested to Aryna to take it and then she was on it for 3 months. And then, I'm sure you know, at that level-wise, they're measuring on the daily basis the changes in terms of the mood, energy, recovery for Aryna. And then, in May, Aryna's team reached out to myself and said, "Aryna's been taking the product for 3 months. Can we partner together?" So, it was like a very happy day, huh? >> I mean, I guess it all just comes down to product at this point. The great product gets them all in. >> Yeah, Craig, a great product gets them all in. And that's At the end of the day, we're so just so thankful for that because at the end of the day, if the product works, people will come in. And even for like Arena, I mean, athletes are are amazing because they have so many options. Everyone's trying to push them on to a product, right? And of course, they choose and they're using the product on a daily basis. Even Arena, she's using it daily. Her team of coaches are using it daily. So, if you watch Arena, every time she makes a great shot, you know, that team of coaches all wear I May caps. Yeah. I love that. >> I think a huge issue a lot of people make with these partnerships is they look at it more as like one-off deals and influencers versus deep integration. And then actually authenticity where they're power users of the product. Seems though everybody here is a power user of the product. >> Yes, 100%. And how we structure the deals is also we don't want to do anything short-term, right? So, these are minimum 3-year deals. Right? So, even with Arena, everyone else, these are minimum 3-year deals because if it's not it comes too short-term and you both sides doesn't benefit from it, right? And that's So, that means or whoever that we're dealing with, for 3 years is a long term, right? Right? It's not just a 1-year thing, right? So, I think this is also very important to structure these things because it benefits both sides that we're both committed. And even for us wisely, there's a significant portion of any of these deals in equity. And which is important because just because you give them equity, to be fair, so many people given want to give them equity, they're very selective more so on the equity piece because it's not transactional. Yeah, they believe in the product, they believe in the brand, they believe in your vision for the long term. And so, that's why it works. >> Another great thing that you have done is not only equity, but some of these people are also investors. And guys, on the way in here, just hits me with an absolute bombshell of some of these massive names that he just signed partnerships with. I want to talk about a couple of those now. Tell everybody in the audience. I guess let's first start with this F1 partnership. Who'd you partner with and why? >> Yeah, so we partnered with Ollie Bearman. He's one of the youngest drivers in F1. He just has a rookie season last year, but everyone's talking about Ollie. He's just amazing young kid, 20 years old, and he has top of his game right now, so huge potential. Yeah, so very happy to partner with him, right? He's just young, always smiling, always laughing, and he has great potential ahead of him. >> That's also a great sport with a growing town. And also, like I said before, it's international. >> It's premium and it's international. >> Yeah, let's just keep Let's just keep reeling them off one by one. >> Yeah, I mean, it's been amazing like last last Yeah, three four weeks, right? So, we're also very fortunate that we just partnered with Giannis. Yeah, again, NBA superstar, literally top one top two player in the league, right? So, very excited about that partnership. And again, these are individuals that actively use the product. So, that becomes a much easier conversation when they they love the product, right? And then just becomes then a deal like, "How do we make this work for both sides?" Yeah? >> We're We're also going to put some prayers in. I'm going to pray to the gods for you that he gets traded to New York. Cuz if he goes to New York, then the town widens even more. You get even bigger. >> Yeah, exactly, right? So, I think there's a lot of talk on that, yeah? So, I think yeah, we're just happy to be able to partner with world-class athletes. >> If you had to distill still down to one thing, what do you think is the one key thing that you do to close these partnerships? >> Um I think at the end of the day it's it's authenticity, right? So, I meet with them on a one-on-one basis and I share the journey, the story. Uh I don't just hand this off to other people, right? So, cuz it's quite delicate when you're dealing with people of this magnitude. Um and we meet, we talk, we share the vision, the story, and at the end of the day it has to work for both sides. So, yeah, the deal, the structure, and everyone sees upside and again building something for the long term, right? So, I think that's the key thing. >> Yeah, and with that being said, that's where like equity comes into play. Like if you're just compensating them with dollars and it's short term, they're not going to do that. >> Yes, it's going to be all direct response, hard ads. And I think now more than ever, I mean, people just see right through that. I completely agree. >> I would say the linchpin of all of this, of all these partnerships, I truly do believe is content. When I went to the website, the stuff with Deva was very, very impressive. You had an ad with Sabalenka, a piece of content with Sabalenka that got over 200 million views and it was created with AI. >> Yeah. >> Walk me through that process. How did that happen? What did you do? Tell Tell us everything. >> So, my thought process is giving me my my thought process in terms of speed, right? As well, right? So, I think it was last year, I think it was like maybe August, right? August time frame cuz we ran that ad in September. I was on Instagram. I saw this amazing AI ad. I was like, "Wow, this is a crazy AI ad." And then it's just basically I was like, "Who made this ad?" And then it's a message to their agency, right? And then he got back, we got on a call. We're like, "Hey, can we do an AI video, etc.?" Yeah, cuz I think what I seen was like really amazing. And then we did it, right? And then so basically the AI video cost us 25 grand and then we put it out basically in like 3 to 4 weeks. And you saw the ad. I mean, we were so surprised at the velocity of how fast it took off. >> You would never expect it would get 200 million views. >> I mean, we didn't get like 2, 3 million views and again it was more of like a test. Yeah, but I think when we pushed it out, Arena shared it as well. Is that I think the algorithms that saw that and saw like, "Wow, this is a really great ad." cuz we had it looked very realistic, but from day one we also mentioned in our video this was driven by AI. So, very transparent that whole process. And then in the first day it got like 20 million views. >> I think that's the key is that you were transparent with what you did and it created a lot of Twitter chatter in the comments, and I think it gave people like agency that this is okay to do. You were very early with that one. >> Yeah, we launched it like September of last year, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, and then again, that was right before the US Open as well. So, the timing also had a lot to do with it, I think. Yeah, cuz of course we know won the US Open. Then we played in Times Square on the big digital billboard. I think got a lot of traction during the right time. >> We're going to pop that up for everybody to to watch and listen to that ad. >> Yeah, it's like 50 seconds, but that's like I don't know one of the most viewed social ads of all 2025. >> It's sleek. I love it. I want to do a quick shout-out to my friend Zach that owns an app that I am a power user of. It's called Outer Signal. In short, every time a celebrity influencer or founder buys from my store, I get a Slack message with all their details. You can flag any specific group and turn that order into a partnership, a brand moment, a gifting opportunity, even a podcast guest, anything you want. They have a ton of tools on how you can use that data. Check them out below, link in the description, and thank me later. Enjoy the episode. What about AI in general? Walk me through how you use that. Strategy, operations, customer service. I know you're ahead of the curve, so give us give us some free game on that. >> Yeah, I mean, I was very I would say very early in terms of the adoption of AI just from a usage perspective even for myself, right? I I use it like literally two to three hours on a daily basis. Yeah, for everything I use it on, right? Like literally. So, yeah, even when you know, ChatGPT first came out a few years ago, very early on. I think key thing for me, to be fair, my team knows that they basically I tell the team literally everyone moving forward has to be AI native, otherwise it's going to be very, very difficult for me to justify Yeah, them their existence, basically, right? >> You said it. >> Right? So, I think it's it's very important as a founder to continue to be updated in terms of all these new innovations, cuz the reality is 1 week, 2 weeks, 3 weeks ago, if it could be irrelevant today, right? I think with the advancement of technology, all these other competitors, other brands are going to be using it, and if we're not yeah, up-to-date with these technologies, we'll be left behind, right? The same goes for our employees, right? Everyone has to basically make the use of it, because I feel like, to be fair, I've never felt like a smart guy, because I was never good in school, right? I dropped out high school, you got kicked out three high schools, so I was I would say very street smart, but now with AI tools, I mean, I literally feel very, very smart, you know? >> It's so funny. Now, now you're getting the the people with the EQ now are getting double the benefit, because IQ is going to become Everyone is going to be able to have the IQ, because they can just leverage the AI. >> Yeah, exactly. It It becomes a commodity, right? The knowledge piece becomes a commodity, because there's no way anyone can be smarter than AI, right? Because the AI is taking knowledge from around the world, where individuals, they're limited by their own knowledge and what they can research. Right? And then so that's going to be a commodity. So, the key thing moving forward, I'm always telling the team is hey, creativity. How do you feed that AI engine? It's going to be so critical, and it's how it's also going to come down to creativity. >> Yeah, the engineering part of it. So, you briefly touched on you had your whole team making sure they're spending any and all their excess time on AI. I want to dive a bit more into like your leadership style. So, tell us a little bit more about your leadership style and like the operating rhythm of how you run your companies. I'd love to hear that. >> Yeah, so my operating rhythm is really focused on results, right? And then speed for any company is this huge, huge advantage. Yeah, and then so I mean, you know, from my whole entrepreneurial career, right? That's been the case, right? So, this is now my I would say my fourth, fifth company started from scratch. And then if you look at my past two experiences, even again, just to background-wise, I moved from US to Hong Kong 2010, and launched an e-commerce company called uBuyiBuy, and that was then acquired by Groupon when Groupon went international. And so that was all about speed, right? Because at that time was really a land grab. So we went from like zero to you know at that time even before Groupon acquired us, we went from zero to monthly 1 million US monthly revenue like 4 to 5 months, right? And then so when they acquired us, we were already the market leader and we only had like eight people working at that time, right? For us. So that was the speed and go to market. >> Let's let's dive deeper into that. Let's get very very granular. When did you have the idea, when did you start it and when did you get to a million dollars? >> So I mean that was very interesting because I remember very specifically, right? Because it was such a pivotal moment in my career. I remember in 2010, a friend sent me a link about Groupon. And then I read a Groupon and I was like wow, this is crazy. Like they're growing like crazy, right? They just raised 950 million dollars. And at that 2010 was a lot of I mean still a lot of money but at that time >> Still a lot of money today. >> but everything's relative, right? In 2010 they were they were one of the very early ones, right? This is even before Uber, Airbnb was just getting it started. >> Before like the big tech platforms and that stuff. So 950 now is like 10 billion dollars. >> Exactly, right? I was like wow, amazing business idea. They were growing like they were already like the fastest company to hit billion dollars in revenue and blah blah blah etc, right? I was like wow, crazy. I really like the idea and always had a passion for technology. And then I was like hey, I love this idea but I can't build that same platform and compete with them in the US because they're already so big. So I was thinking where do I go? I was like hey, I've moved to Hong Kong. So within 1 month, I packed my bags, basically moved to Hong Kong. I had no e-commerce background, no network in Hong Kong. Moved to Hong Kong March 2nd on June 28th, I had a website up and running and was called youbuyibuy and then we were selling in Hong Kong and Taiwan. And the first day again it was crazy because I remember very very vividly we sold 400 vouchers on the first day. By the fourth, fifth month, we were doing 1 million monthly in revenue, USD revenue. And on the sixth month, Groupon came calling and they acquired 51% of the company and then basically they acquired the rest in 2013. And at that time, we went from zero to When I left, we had about like 200 million in revenue, but we were the largest e-commerce company in the region at the time, which was very early in Asia. All right? So, again, that speed was a big portion of that. >> Tell me more about that. I mean, first off, just within a month, you're moving to Hong Kong with no network. >> Yeah. >> How do you get all of those vouchers? How do you get to a million dollars? Like, tell us on the ground Let's get tactical here cuz you have no e-com background. >> Yeah, correct. >> What happened? You have to get the brands on the platform to sell. Like, what happened? >> Yeah, correct. Great you asked these questions because I can be very specific in terms of what happened, right? Yeah, so went to Hong Kong, had no background, but I knew I wanted to do the e-commerce. And of course, then I hired an agency for the website, we're involved with that part, and but then of course, then the key thing is actually getting the brands on board. Right? Because if you don't have any good brands on board, no one's going to buy from you, correct? And then when I went to the big brands, they all said no to me, right? Of course, they're like, "Hey, yeah, why why why why would I why would I work with you?" I went to Starbucks, and again, you had to do I had to do this, right? Because only I had like four, five people in the company, right? So, I went to Starbucks, you go to like some of the Asian brands, and they're like, "Yeah, we don't we don't need this, right?" And then so, what we did early on was then, "Okay, if Starbucks won't work with us, okay, we'll we'll still buy the Starbucks vouchers." All right? "We'll still buy the Starbucks at full value, yeah, and then we resell that 50% off." Right? As a customer acquisition tool. >> Wow. So, you're saying they said no, you said [ __ ] off, I'm going to buy it. >> I I didn't say [ __ ] off. >> You You said no, I'm going to buy it, and then sell it for 50% off as a way to just get new customers, and you're going to win on the LTV. So, it was just you just use it a loss leader on the CAC and then you just win on the LTV. >> want to use a loss leader on the CAC also to create brand value because we're very early, right? And then consumers and they'll see, "Oh, wow, you guys got Starbucks, right?" And Starbucks is Chris a great brand recognition, right? And then we made sure every single day we had a new deal at 12:00 a.m. Cuz even at that time e-commerce in Hong Kong was so early and everyone told me, "No one's going to go on the website at 12:00 a.m. to find new deals." But I said, "Hey, if we have good deals, we create a new shopping behavior. And then even I didn't care if that voucher sold a thousand. Every 12:00 a.m. I have a new voucher on, right? So, let's create that behavior and so we had really great brands on in the beginning, but a lot of those brands in the beginning, they were basically we did this thing with buying the vouchers directly. And then of course, at the time wise, hey, I knew in the back of my mind, yeah, Starbucks will probably send us a letter, which they did. It's like, "You can't do this, right?" >> But it's like, "You probably can't resell vouchers." >> It actually says you cannot resell vouchers, right? But then at the end of the day, we were a small company, right? Yes, you're a small company and then so but at the same time it's like, "We have Starbucks." Then I can go to Peet's Coffee. It's like, "Starbucks just worked with me, right?" >> Yeah. We get a real deal from Peet's. And so, continue on there. One of the key moments even early on in giving you very granular specific details was >> I cold called this a restaurant group, Dining Concepts. And then yeah, and the the marketing director, he was really rude cuz I cold called, right? And he was like, "Don't ever call me again." And blah blah blah, he said things, swear words to me, right? And I was very like I was like, "Wow, this guy is like really mean, right?" And then I I then Googled it, "Who is the owner of this group, right?" And then I still remember his name is Sandeep. And then I cold called the actual office. And I was like, "Can I speak to Sandeep?" He was the actual owner. And I was telling him, "Hey, basically my name, my story." And he said, "Hey, Danny, just come to my office. I want to chat with you, right?" And then, I went to his office, and I told him the story. And then, he was a Again, he started from nothing, too. And then, he built like one of the biggest restaurant groups in Hong Kong. After I met with him for about 20 minutes, he was like, "You know, Danny, it's like, I don't believe your e-commerce concept will work in Hong Kong. But because you didn't give up, even though my marketing director hung up on you, I'm going to work with you and give you 20 of my restaurants." And then, and it was a real deal. So, that means his 20 restaurants was on my platform. I had basically set up the next 3-4 months, one a week with his restaurants, which was in high demand. And he was like, "Since you're so passionate about your business, I'll work with you." So, I think if you try hard enough, and you reach the right people, people will willing to help you and work with you, as long as you're young Yeah, entrepreneur. >> I feel like just being Yeah, passionate, relentless, speed. And what you said there for people out there listening to take very kind of tactical advice from it. I mean, it's the same with me with licensing. We got one license. We leveraged it as social proofing and said, "Hey, we have this license." And then, we got the other licenses. So, I just feel like this is all about leveraging and social proofing just to get to the next level and get the next vendor. >> Yeah, kind of kind of in early days, right? Because you have so you have no leverage. >> And then, at some point, you have leverage. And you have real cuz they are real customers. >> Yes, so I'm quite Yeah. >> Yeah. We're very grateful now. We have >> Yeah. That's a great point when you get to that point. When it when it actually is real. >> Yes. When you're small, you can take much bigger risks, all right? And then, as your company evolves at each stage, then it's different. And of course, right now, we're a public listed company, right? So, everything we have to do by the books, right? Everything's audited basically by Deloitte, right? So, I think now it's a very different stage. But you know, when we're younger, going on, everyone has their our all >> Well, I mean, still, regardless of where you're at, I still feel like speed is your superpower. How do you get your team to go as fast and be as ambitious as you are? What is that operating rhythm? Are you guys talking every single day and say, by the end of the week I need to get this? You guys are talking Wednesday, what did I do Monday and Tuesday? How is the How do you keep the pace? Yeah, so I think Yeah, everyone that works with me now or even in my past company is again, I'm I'm very on all the time, right? So, again, I'm involved in like every single department of the organization, right? So, that's very key. Number one, you also firstly have to start with team members that appreciate that speed, are ambitious with the growth. And again, to be honest with you, to be fair, not everyone wants that, right? Some individuals, they just want comfort, and that's not the right individual for our company. It could be for other companies, so I think you have to select people that have this ambitious and growth mindset, otherwise it doesn't work, right? Because then, when you want to tell people to push the buttons, everyone has to go, right? Otherwise, even one person, it doesn't work. It'll slow everyone down, right? >> spot that? Is there something that you do to understand and know that that person has it in them? >> I think you have to make a good judgment in terms of finding that talent, and in terms of what their ambitions are, and yeah, again, I always be very transparent. So, like even for me, I yeah, even work life I have a work life integration. There's never any boundaries, and I'm constantly I'll tell them, "Hey, you know what? I'll text you at like, you know, 12:00 a.m., 2:00 a.m., 6:00 a.m. Doesn't matter, right?" And it's just so I am fully transparent in terms of how yeah, what what demands they are when you're coming in to and joining this company, all right? Of course, they'll be able to learn a lot. Again, I'm very hands-on. I I always For me, I always try to provide a lot of context. I never tell someone, "Hey, just do this, blah blah blah." I was always say, "This is the reason why." So, at the end of the day, I also want them to learn as well, right? >> So, everybody has access to you in your company. >> Yeah, everyone Everyone has access. 24/7 access. >> Yeah. Easy easy. >> Right? So, I'm always on WhatsApp, etc. And that's That's very important, right? Because any a lot of times, if they don't have access, then this is where, you know, the speed gets lost. >> So, talking about this Groupon competitor, what I think is interesting about that versus what you're doing now, correct me if I'm wrong. I feel like I am A9, it's long-term. This is a life mission. It's 10, 20, 50 years. Did you intentionally go into this Groupon one under the notion that you thought Groupon was going to buy you and this was, "Hey, we can do a quick scale and get an acquisition." Were you thinking that then? >> That was in the back of my mind, but most importantly, if the business did well, I knew I had a lot of options. Right? Because the key thing is that if the business does well, then you have a lot of options, including a sale to Groupon, right? And coincidentally, that happened. Yeah. So, I'd rather be lucky than good any day. >> How How much do you think it is lucky versus good? I'm curious. You just brought it up. I was going to ask you that later. How much do you think your career is, percentage-wise, is luck versus good? >> Yeah, to be fair, I think individuals create their own luck. All right? And Yeah, if you're walking on the street, you know, nothing's going to just fall on you hit you, right? Correct? You have to be in the right position, right time, and you all also have to be able to in the position to take the right bets, you know, which could be called lucky, right? But, you know, again, I'd rather be lucky. I mean, give you another two two examples. I mean, I was a seed investor in a company called Honey, which was acquired by PayPal for 4 billion cash, right? So, I had a 300x return on that one investment, which was quite crazy, right? Um How'd that come about? And again, it was There was I had the Groupon experience, right? And then so, they were working on a internet browser widget for coupons, right? And then so, my friend introduced us, and we got along well, and so, they, you know, put a little bit money, and turned out after like, you know, I think it was like 5 6 years, 300 x return, right? On a on a 100 grand investment. So, >> Guys, you guys do the You guys do the math there. That's uh what is that? 30 million? >> 30 million dollars, yeah. >> Hey. >> Right? And then >> And that was directly correlated to you being in an adjacent business, having success, and then getting the access through that. >> Right. But of course, many people didn't make that investment. >> Yeah. >> Right? Also at that time, right? And another example was in Hong Kong, I met this guy, and that's another entrepreneur, and he had previously built the world's lightest aircraft seat, and he's came to me and we were just hanging out having drinks, and then he was like, yeah, he's going to do another business. I'm like, what is it? And he's like, he's going to build a new insurance company in France. I'm like, has that been done before? He's like, no. I'm like, why do you think you can do it? He's like, blah blah blah etc. He's like, in France it's very backwards, and they need new digital insurance company. And he actually did it, and it was the first time in 17 years a new insurance company has been built. And I was a seed investor in that, and now I have a 200 x return on that. And Alan is now Europe's largest digital insurance company. It's now valued at like 4 billion dollars. Right? So, I think Those were all luck. It's like, I was meeting the right people at the right time. But you also have to be able to take advantage of that. >> Yeah, I want to dive a little bit into that, and then then we're going to get into Perionetics, where for everybody out there listening, that is the name of the Hol Co, the publicly traded company, which I am a lives underneath. When you're making these investments, what are you looking for? >> Uh to be fair, I don't do any due diligence. >> You don't do any >> due diligence. >> Yeah. Yeah, I just like the guy. >> Guys, this is this is not the first person that has had asymmetric crazy outcomes, um and they don't do due diligence. You're saying it's 100% feel on who the jockey is, who the human is. >> Yes. Right, yeah? Cuz the problem is once you do due diligence, it doesn't work. Right? Right, once you do due diligence, that's your thinking wild. It's the success ratio is going to be like 1 2 3%, right? Mhm, correct. Yes, so if you do really look into it, and you have to do all this stuff. Because at the end of the day, you're betting on the jockey. All right? And then that Of course, you're not always going to be right. Yeah, but if you have a good feel, good connection, etc., at least for me, it's it's, you know, worked very well for myself. >> This episode is sponsored by Poppy AI, a visual AI workspace that almost acts as a whiteboard where you can ingest in YouTube videos, podcast episodes, voice notes, PDFs. You ask it a question, and then it gives you answers based on everything that you add. It's made for visual thinkers and for anybody that's sick and tired of bouncing back and forth from a bunch of different tabs. It really just helps you organize your ideas and thoughts and research. For podcast prep, I load in a bunch of past episodes, some ideas for interview questions, past links, and then Poppy comes back and helps me kind of shape questions that actually sound like my true voice. You can choose from a bunch of different models, ChatGPT, Claude, a bunch others. It's all actually baked into the workspace. I actually genuinely enjoy using the product. I've met the founders before. They're super, super sharp and they're very, very deep in the product. They're actually former content creators, so they really, really get how and why someone would use this product. Go to getpoppy.ai/openresidency, use the code OR for 25 bucks off. If you're a creator at any level, this will change your workflow. >> I think it's the jockey and then it's the TAM, which which we're going to which we're going to get into next. So, you have this Groupon competitor that eventually gets bought by Groupon. And then it comes to the life's mission, what's next, Prenetics, which is in 2014-ish. Why don't you tell us about the thesis of that company and how that started cuz that comes into I made. >> Yeah, that thesis come out cuz I exited Groupon in April 24, right? So, again, at the time, I was actually thinking I was going to go into investments. All right? Just investing, etc. I had a good access. I was able to naturally investing back into community and entrepreneurs and cetera, right? And then I did that for a while, but I got quite bored already, right? Cuz then you're not in the in the weed of things, right? So I will always say I'm a very hands-on operator and I was starting to think, "Hey, what else could I do?" I just had e-commerce, blah blah blah. I didn't want to just go back to e-commerce cuz that would have been naturally the easy route and I wouldn't have learned anything new. Right? It would just be selling something else on e-commerce which which at the time would have been quite easy for me. And then again, I was in mid-30s, health started becoming a big thing that you're thinking about and and taking care of, right? I had my first daughter, so health becomes much more a priority. And then I was very intrigued by 23andMe at that time. I was just very fascinated cuz I didn't have a science background that with via saliva sample, you can learn so much about yourself, about your DNA, where you're from, your heritage, your likenesses, what you're susceptible to from a disease perspective. And in Asia, that business model did not exist. That and that swabbing of a DNA didn't exist in 2014. >> crazy. This is going back to the Groupon. You saw it winning in the US, it wasn't in Asia. It's the same thing. >> Yeah, exactly. >> saw the whole new market in a different geography. >> Correct. Yeah, and then what and I loved Hong Kong, right? So I didn't we didn't want to go back to the US, right? And then so I saw the same thing and I was like, "Hey, of course I didn't have a science background, right?" But I had again, even when I first started 23andMe, looking into 23andMe, I started myself first, researching and reading lots of white papers. In terms of the technology, the science, how do they actually do it? Cuz then I need to get equipped from a knowledge perspective before I can then talk to researchers and scientists and analysts for them to come join and do this together, right? So that's what I did, I researched the industry so I can then talk at least in somewhat intelligently >> on the language >> to other language to scientists and then was able to bring them on board as the founding team to create Prenetics which the The actually comes from half prevention and genetics. So, the original thesis was 23 and me in a different region. You have the concept, you talk to scientists, you bring on three, four, five scientists, and then what? >> Uh correct. And then we started going to business, all right? So, we started uh basically selling initially again, I tested direct-to-consumer with the DNA test, actually, and just running ads and cetera. But, at time, the customer acquisition cost in Asia was way too expensive. I'm like, there's never able to be able to make a profit, all right? >> And then >> So, we we didn't go direct-to-consumer initially. So, we went to B2B2C. So, I started going out to insurance companies. >> That's that's that big money. >> Mhm. >> Yeah, large insurance companies, yeah, AIA, Prudential, cuz they have a lot millions of insured customers, right? And so, we would offer them DNA tests to their customers, and the insurance company would pay for it. All right? So, that's what we did for basically the first four, five years until COVID hit. >> And what does the unit economics of something like that look like? Is that does like a traditional wholesale model where it's it's $100, you just sell it to the insurance company for 50, or how does that go? >> Yeah, so it was uh the unit economics on that is again, the insurance companies is basically buying the test on behalf of the insured, right? So, they give they provide us a free benefit, right? When when someone buys an insurance policy, they're like, you can also get your genomic results to understand your disease risk and cetera, right? So, we just give a price basically to the insurance company, and then we have our own lab and science team, and then so basically to to produce the test. >> So, probably lower margins than traditional businesses, but huge volume. Cuz if you're working with a with an insurance company, you're a preferred vendor, and just as many patients that come in, they're going to give it to them. >> Yes. Mhm. >> I like that business. I like that that volume business. So, you're doing this for four, five years, B2B, B2B2C, not doing e-comm. COVID hits, which with every business, there's a there's a story. So, that happens, and what happens? >> Yeah, when COVID hit in yeah, of course, in March 2020, COVID hit. Hong Kong started getting the wave of COVID and cetera wise, right? And then I actually had a meeting with the chief executive of Hong Kong early March in terms of seeing a if there's something that we can do to help because we already had the laboratory, right? And again, I think actually maybe even going back before that meeting with the chief executive is that early maybe like February, people started texting me saying, "Hey Danny, do you have do you have any PCR test or COVID test?" I'm like, "No, I don't, right?" And then another person another friend texts me another person texts me. I'm like, "There's something going on here, right?" Then I started looking into it. It's why are so many people texting me about doing COVID test because of course we have the laboratory and cetera, but that means it was very difficult to get a COVID test in Hong Kong. You actually had to go to a hospital and at the same time the hospital if you want to go number one, you don't want to go to a hospital to get a COVID test, but if you did, the COVID test at the hospital was like five to six hundred dollars USD per test early on. So, I was like, "Okay, maybe there's something there." So, of course naturally you want to be able to partner with the government, right? And then so I was able to get in a meeting with the government and at the time they declined us like, "We don't need your help. We can do it on our own." >> But they were interested under the notion that you had the infrastructure and then going back like the social proofing with working with the insurance companies like you were credible. >> Correct. Exactly. We're credible, right? So, that's why they accepted the meeting in the first place, but they said like, "We don't need your help. We can manage it ourselves." >> And and then the second wave of COVID hit, huh? Like the real wave came that this shit's real. >> yeah. So, after that meeting we were like, "Okay, what do we do now, right?" Then we said, "You know what? Hey, let's just launch our own directed consumer COVID at home test." Which we did basically in three weeks later. Right? So, again, speed was quite critical on that and then we launched our own directed consumer >> there. Wait. So, how So, how do you do that? So, for in three weeks you're figuring out you're you're you're utilizing your scientists to figure out what this test looks like. Yes. You're getting a test. You're reverse reverse engineering it and then just selling it. >> Correct. Because we already had the laboratory infrastructure set up already, right? And then so it was just a matter of getting reagents yeah, inside to our laboratory. Our team already knows science of it as well, cuz you have to understand we're doing clinical genomic tests. The science on that is much more complicated than just a PCR test. Right? So, it was even easier for us, right? Just understand that part. And then so in 3 weeks time, basically we already set up we basically set up the full infrastructure selling it online individually in Hong Kong. So, we're the first provider in Hong Kong to do a DTC COVID test for 100 bucks USD. And like the first day we launched, we had like 200-300 orders already. And every single day we will be sold out cuz there was capacity limits, right? >> So, the hospital was jacking up the price. The unit economics were crazy. They were >> Yeah, they were selling for like yeah, $500. We did it for 100 bucks, right? So, it was just a way to offer the community for individuals something that was good and validated. >> It's so funny that you say this again for for people listening out there. I've had this inflection point in my career multiple times is looking inward at your team, whether it be the talent of your team and or production or the distribution. What do you have and you could be serving one market, but there could be a TAM that's a million times bigger that you can take your expertise and bring it elsewhere. And it seems as though that's exactly what you're about to do. As you're seeing a massive opportunity and you're like, "Hey, we can produce this. I have the chops from a distribution perspective to know how to do e-com." And then you go. >> Yeah, correct. So, so we went. And then and so every day we're selling out and etc. And then when the second wave in July of 2020 hit, then the government came back and called me. He's like, "Hey, can you help us do something, right? Cuz the wave is getting out of control." I'm like, "Yeah, yes, we can definitely help." And then the first our first mission or task it was with the chief executive Hong Kong. He's like, "We want to test all the restaurant workers in Hong Kong." I'm like, "Okay, how many people is that?" They're like, "18,000 restaurants, 300,000 staff." All right, because Mhm. >> And this was in July 2020. And then >> This is with your laboratory with five people that you Yeah. >> Yeah, yeah. I mean, we were like 10 people maybe. But then But then And then again, that was a big task, right? And they're like, "How long, you know, do we have, right?" We're like, "You have like Yeah, 6 weeks to do that." Right? So, speed was critical. And then so, we accepted the project. All right? And then basically then we went door-to-door to pass out saliva PCR kits to all the restaurant workers. And the first day and the for the first week, I went out 8 hours a day just to passing out cuz I knew I needed to show the team. I was also at a big risk because at that time there was no vaccine. All right? And then so, I went to the most high-risk places of COVID passing a PCR test. And you can see on my Instagram, it's like it's real story, right? Because >> You set the precedent to your team though. >> You have to set the precedent. I'm willing to do that. It's like everyone else should be able to do that cuz again, that goes back to the team. If everyone didn't have that motivation to just go, yeah? It doesn't work, right? So, and then we were able to do that. And >> So, you executed that. >> Yeah, we executed that. It was crazy times. We had massive hiring cuz at that time also in Hong Kong, a lot of people got laid off. Yeah, so we actually then supplied work to a lot of people that got laid off from the hospitality industry. So, it worked out to be favorable for everyone, right? And then what happened in the coming 2 3 years was then there was many vendors that happened eventually. There was like maybe 15 to 16 different laboratory partners. But the crazy thing is we're the first. And then of course, the government, they have to spread the risk, right? They can't just give the contract to one person. But then what happened eventually was all the other providers, they just kept messing up. And they had like data issues, false positives, etc., etc. So, at the time when you get a false positive in Hong Kong, you have to go to the detention center for like 7 days. >> Wow. >> Right? So, it was very bad in Hong Kong, but we were the only provider that did not mess up. We never had a false positive, false negative in individuals. And then the government kept coming back to us saying, "Can you do more? Can you do more?" At one point, we were doing all of the testing for inbound flights into Hong Kong. So, we made a household name for ourselves. So, everyone that flew into Hong Kong had to do a Prenetics PCR test, which was mandatory. >> What does that volume look like? >> We're doing 40,000 tests a day. >> Wow. >> So, at one point, it was like crazy. It was 40,000 tests a day, two, three thousand people, logistics, supply chain, everything had to be top notch. And 3 years, we had 800 million revenue. >> I want to take a step back here when we're looking at this. You start this company, it's on a complete rocket ship for 3 years. The identity of the company is this COVID testing. >> Oh, yeah. We're known as a COVID testing company, right? >> Yeah. So, so two big things for people out there listening. Two things happened. One, at some point you go public, which I want to hear everything about that. And then two, obviously, COVID stops, and we don't need COVID testing anymore. So, you're crushing it. You're doing hundreds of millions of dollars COVID testing when people come into the airport. What happens? What are those things that happen that you go public? And then obviously, there's a pseudo crash that happens with your company. >> Yeah, correct, right? So, of course, I always knew, yeah, COVID was going to end someday, especially with technology, resources, the testing that was involved, yeah? So, it was like, what is one thing that can, you know, way create our own destiny for us success and and survival, right? And then so, one of the things we did early on, again, our revenue was growing, we were making a name for ourselves, we decided to also, in the height of COVID, list the company on the Nasdaq in 2022. So, it was May 18th, 2022, we listed it. And again, it was amazing. We had a $1 billion valuation. Yeah, it was great until COVID ended, right? >> What are those things that people get right or wrong when going public? I mean, for me, when I look at it, it's just like you have to be crazy with your financials. >> Mhm. >> What are What are some of the other things that are the big kind of rocks that you have to push down the mountain as far as >> Yeah, so I mean, the financials is good point you mentioned. I think that was always, regardless we went public or not, right? So, it was very important for us that a we were audited by a big four, right? So, you were always audited by KPMG, Deloitte, and etc., right? So, that means that you didn't actually have any issues from an accounting perspective, right? Because if your books are not in order, it's impo- You can't go public, right? So, from day one, even before, like early days, like 2016, '17, we already had audited by big four. So, then was just making sure that again, you have the right team, the right bankers involved, the right partners involved for that. >> And when you do that, COVID crashes somewhat soon. What's that inflection point where you're like, "Okay, I need to pivot." >> Yeah, so we need we knew we needed to pivot and then I think post-COVID, again, there was a lot of companies that actually went public during that time. And the crazy thing is that they're all bankrupt right now. Or they're not listed anymore. They were like two, three, four billion-dollar companies that went public during the COVID times because they were doing such big revenues, like billion, two billion-dollar revenues. But then the challenge there was that they continued onto that business, and they thought the testing would continue for a while, where I felt at that time wise, I don't think testing's going to continue. And then so, we made a big decision at the time, once we knew, "Hey, you know what? COVID's not going to continue." And made that decision is that basically to basically shut down our COVID operations, which meant laying off 2,000 people. >> Guys, Danny's the pivot king. He's the speed king and the pivot king. It takes a lot to A, make that hard of a pivot, and then B, lay off all those people. I've laid off or fired 10, 20, 30 people, not not not thousands of people. How hard was that? What was that like? >> I mean, it was hard, right? Very, very hard because a lot of these people we were going through kind of like the COVID times, which was like crazy crazy. That's what was rocket ship, it was just crazy intensity, right? In terms of was working like literally 24/7 literally for almost 3 years, all right? And then so you went to battle with these individuals, but at the end of the day, there was nothing for them to do. All right? Because if without testing, what they're going to hang up and do? So, I think at the same time, it was good for both the company because I knew if I didn't let go of them, >> Company's done. >> The company's out, which a lot of these other companies they were listed and they're they're bankrupt now. They're not even listed anymore, right? So, of course in hindsight it was the right decision and even for them, I mean, at the end of the day, it was better for them that they had to move on to something which was sustainable, right? So, I think that's how we looked at it. >> people get it. For me, I love the people. Ultimately, the logo is the logo needs to be alive and have cash to pay the people, so that's the most important thing. But I think secondly, something that I've learned in my career is letting someone free as early as possible to find the next thing is way better than to keep them on the ship. >> Yeah, 100% for both sides, right? For both sides. For both sides is the is the is the key thing. >> Right, yeah. >> Yeah. So, I want you to get a a little vulnerable here, Danny. So, your billion-dollar market cap you go down to $20 million. >> I want to say it was like 40, yeah. >> 20 40 million dollars >> was very low. It was very low. >> Your a billion-dollar plus market cap down to a $40 million market cap. What did you learn about yourself, your friends, the world? I'm sure that was a pretty lonely time and place to be in. What did you learn? >> Yeah, it was it was quite it was it was quite lonely, right? Because again, you were like how like even Hong Kong, we had a a a great reputation during COVID and then so when we listed, we were kind of like the poster boy, right? Because we're the first unicorn from Hong Kong listed on the Nasdaq with such a valuation, right? I had a 20% stake. Yeah, so my worth at that time, yeah, was yeah, >> $200 million. I did the math. Yeah. >> You did the math, right? >> Yeah. >> And then of course, going down, yeah, there was a lot of you could hear it from investors or people on the street, oh yeah, of course, yeah. But it's very easy to knock someone down when they're going down, right? And so you knew you you know who your friends are because when you're at a billion dollars and at the height and you have so many people coming into you, so many people want to chat with you, be your friends and etc. So going going way down, you actually know who your real friends are or the ones that are with you from that time through it. And so I think yeah, that's been very clear to me, right? >> I think that everybody needs to go on a little bit of downswing to see that. You get complete transparency and then I'm sure you feel so amazing that now on the upswing, you're going to be real real nice to those people that were there for you. >> Yeah, of course. >> As you should be. >> Yeah, 100% right? And yeah, to be fair, like even at the height, yeah, I still today have not sold a single share of Chronetics, right? Because I always believed in the long term. I didn't know what we would pivot into, to be fair, but I knew we would make something of it. Yeah, so that's why even when we were at 40 million, 50 million, or even going down, I never sold a single share. Because I was like, yeah, I had always the belief that we will make it and make it back. >> Guys, quick break. This episode is sponsored by Universal Ads, a division of Comcast. I have spent tens of millions of dollars on Meta Ads. At one point, it was 95% of my marketing spend. That is super dangerous. With one algorithm shift, your whole entire business can stall. A great option is layering in advertising on streaming TV. I thought it would take weeks to set up and a big agency to maintain. Guys, it took 5 minutes. Universal Ads gives you direct access to a ton of premium publishers. NBC, Paramount, Roku, all the big networks. 100% of your spend goes to actually reaching people, not middlemen. And the best part is there is no fees. Same workflow as meta, upload your creative, target your audience, and launch. I've already moved massive brands spending millions of dollars a year on CTV over to their platform. I've negotiated ad credits for my audience, plus free creative and measurement services. If you're running CTV or spending six figures plus a month on paid, email us at [email protected] with subject line universal. Platform dependency is dangerous. Don't make that mistake. Link below for more. Let's go into that last pivot. So, that goes down. The COVID testing is done. Did you have this idea for IM8? Was it an idea that was inspired by the dinner with David Beckham? What made you pick IM8? For the people out there that are looking to pick their next thing, why did you pick IM8? >> So, I think post-COVID again, our business outside of COVID was in a clinical genomics, right? So, I was working with hospitals, and you know, B2B, some DTC on genomic tests, cancer tests, etc. wise, right? But that model was actually very difficult to scale because you need dependency on regulatory. Right? And all of these different markets, right? In Southeast Asia and etc., and then so you're not in full control of how fast you can go. Right? And then so that was one key aspect of it, all right? COVID was something that you couldn't have predicted, all right? Correct? And then so the other business was very difficult, and again, it's like, "Hey, you won't be able to grow again." So, we felt the consumer space was the right opportunity again leveraging my background e-commerce and science. So, it was right at this time where again, I had the opportunity to meet me and David literally right right when we're thinking about this that we had the opportunity to meet. So, you can call it lucky, right? Right time, right setting, right platform maybe even for him because even at that time, I think David was in a where yeah, he was just about to turn 50. He really wanted to utilize his platform in a positive manner, right? And then for us, the same thing is like it was the right time and then that's where we came up with this together. >> Makes a lot of sense. I say it all the time. I feel like one of the most underestimated things in business is experience. Everybody they see these kind of young gazillionaires that are in their early 20s, but the fact that you are where you are is just a culmination of all of these things. And for me, I would always rather bet on a second time founder, third time, fourth time, fifth time, sixth time founder. The more companies that you've founded, the safer the bet is. That's how I look at investing in people and companies. >> Yeah. Correct. >> Yeah. And again, we had even when we met David, I mean, again, we had a 50 million market went from 1 billion 50 million like oh, he must be like oh [ __ ] right? What's going on here, right? But then when I explained to him what happened, the details, etc. I was like yeah, then it makes sense in terms of our ambition. And we still had cash, right? And then so that was a good thing, right? Because we made a lot of cash during the COVID time, too. We had more than 100 million dollars in cash in the balance sheet. But our market was 50, so there was a disconnect. Right? And now because of I made, of course, people are starting to take notice. Over the past 12 months, now we went from 50 million market cap to now I don't know where almost close to 340 million market cap today. >> Not financial advice here, but I like what you're doing. I'm just I'm just going to leave it at that. Okay, let's round the corner here. I'm going to ask you a ton of random questions. You can fire off short answer, long answer, whatever you want. I guess let's first start off with you have, I don't know, over 500 Bitcoin, I don't know, 40, 50 million dollars of Bitcoin on the balance sheet. Why? >> Yeah, so we just felt last June it was a good opportunity and basically from a treasury perspective to invest in Bitcoin. We have excess cash, etc. etc. So we just basically started buying Bitcoin last June. And however, with that being said, the business of I made just grew way faster even than I expected at the end of the last year. So, it just became a bit of a distraction. So, what we mentioned is that we've stopped buying Bitcoin now and into the future and just fully going all in on IMH. >> But you're under the notion that you just think Bitcoin will hold its value more than 3 4% savings bonds. >> Yeah, exactly, right? So, I think we just is a good storage of value and at being at the same time say our Bitcoin assets today is I'm getting ready now we have 70 million in cash, 40 million Bitcoin. So, we have much more cash than our Bitcoin. So, it's not like hey, I think it's a good balance. >> Who knows that those numbers could shift with where Bitcoin >> cuz I'm I'm bullish on Bitcoin too, baby. I got I got some Bitcoin. >> Yes. >> You also just raised a little time ago you raised $44 million. For someone out there raising money, what's the biggest piece of advice you give to someone about raising money? >> Again, you have to I mean, for anyone raising money yeah, any opportunity you have with an investor, whoever it is, you just really have to know your business inside and out and because I think from investor perspective again, they have so many options to invest in many different companies, right? So, it's like why should they invest in you? So, you have to be realistic about that answer and be able to show them why with details, numbers, quantities cuz anyone can talk the talk, but you have to quantify with numbers, unit economics and also the path to profitability. >> What are some of those numbers that you think are key to to translate? I think unit economics is obviously one. I think TAM is another one. You're going after a massive market. Anything key that you think like in your business, what are those like key numbers that you think that you communicate to people and it really resonates with them? >> They want simplicity. Like even when I invest is that they my first question is like hey, is there any other companies in your space that's doing something similar? >> Right, because that's the easiest way. Good first question. >> Yeah, good first question is like because then it's like we know the industry is like $700 million global industry for supplements, right? It's a huge huge massive industry. Okay, then people ask, "Hey, who are the competitors?" So, of course there's Athletic Greens. You two wonder doing 6 700 million dollars. There's other companies in the space as well, Lybrate, etc., right? So, I think that's the easy reference first, and then the key thing is like how is your product different or better than any of these competitors, right? And at the end of day, you know, multiple companies, I believe can win in the supplements game just because of how massive and global this industry is. And then so, you have to be able to show this conviction and an opportunity that they believe that you can do this. >> How big is the TAM? Who's in the space? How much they're doing? How are we different? And then a couple other core numbers, core unit economics, maybe CAC to LTV. >> Yeah, but just be very, very simple and precise with that. Correct. And then the runway, too, right? Is that A, do you have enough cash on your balance sheet, right? To be able to do what you need to do. >> Agree with you there. You guys aren't in retail. Why aren't you in retail? >> I think we now ship to 31 countries around the world, and it's 100% direct-to-consumer. 98% of that is on our own website, imhealth.com, 2% on Amazon. Because we still see so much growth opportunities, yeah, because for example, only 40 40% of our business in US. Yeah. >> Wow. Mhm. 40%? That's it? >> Yeah, that's it. Exactly, right? So, 40% in the US, Canada, UK is number two, number three, Australia is number four, Hong Kong is number five, Singapore is number six, UAE is number seven, Germany is number eight, right? So, we truly have a global business. So, if you think about our growth opportunity, right? This is why we forecasted this year we want to hit 180 million revenue, but yeah, 40% of that is in US, so it's actually very limited, right? So, lots of growth. >> So, you believe in 100% penetration in the world for D2C as opposed to doing US D2C and US retail. >> Correct. Yeah, from day one. Yeah, so I think easily we have another three years before we even get into deep conversations with retailers. To be fair, all the major retailers have reached out to us. >> I would imagine. >> And we've rejected them. >> And from a leverage perspective, keep rejecting them, keep rejecting them, and then the terms will be better. >> Yeah, exactly, right? And the reality is like we don't Yeah, we're we're growing so fast. I think what if we put in retail into this now, it also loses focus, and I actually don't believe at this early stage of our brand, we can even from our own team perspective, we can do everything well. >> Makes a lot of sense. All right, last three questions that I ask everybody. Favorite book or podcast and why? >> Well, so to be fair, I actually don't read books. >> All right, I don't read books. >> read books. >> You're researching PDFs on ChatGPT. >> Yes, I'm researching like science papers, papers, everything. I I read a lot, but I read like online. >> No podcasts? >> Uh podcast, yes. I I I listen to some podcasts, right? So, I I like to actually like to listen to the the Neil and Eric Siu podcast. That one also gives me a lot of insights in terms of what are the latest tools to use. What's it called? >> Marketer School. >> Marketer School. >> Yeah, I believe by Neil Patel and Eric Siu. >> By Neil Patel and Eric Siu. We're going to pop that one up, guys. I've actually I know who Neil Patel is, obviously, but I've never heard of that podcast. >> Yeah, correct. So, and they're very short, right? Because there's like 15-20 minute episodes. All right? And then so they're always talking about the latest tools they use. So, I get like a lot of help because I want to always stay up-to-date on latest tools, right? >> Favorite entrepreneur or brand that you want to give flowers to and why? >> I I think we feel I've always been a big fan of Jack Ma just because if you think about his story from origins, right? And he had the foresight to even record when he was fundraising or getting people involved in his little apartment like 12 people, right? Recording that, and then he was a English teacher in the US, and just to be able to build what he'd been able to build in yeah, from basically coming from nothing and doing that. Yeah. Very amazing. >> All right, last question. How big can I Am Eight be? >> Yes, great question, right? So, I honestly believe it can be one of the world's biggest supplement brands in the next two to five years, right? And this is really rare even for my entrepreneur career that we have a lot of the pieces to make that happen. Cuz you have the great product market fit. We have the performance marketing piece. All right, which now we I think we have a good grasp on, right? You have the brand piece, then you have the celebrity piece, you have the organic individuals that are using the product, which are highly influential. So you have a lot of different pieces. But I think I'm I mean perspective and this is why I can I can go on record and say well a lot of times people ask me, hey, what other new business are you going to start? This is going to be my last business. And I want to go all in on this and believe this has a huge potential to truly be one of the world's biggest supplement brands in the next few years. >> I love that answer. I always say this is going to be my last company. Shows a lot of faith. >> Yeah, I just do I I've I've done enough, yeah, in terms of I don't want to go back again to starting zero, right? >> Amazing every man. Where can they find you? Where can they find IMA? Social, LinkedIn, websites, where where the big places they should look? >> Yeah, I mean, yeah, LinkedIn, of course, yeah. IMA Anyone can find at imahealth.com on the website. Yeah, I'm on Instagram. I'm on X, yeah. Quite accessible. >> Amazing. Thanks for coming, man. What's up, guys? If you guys got this far in the episode, I would assume that you enjoyed it. If you got any value, it would mean the world if you hit the subscribe button, give it a like, post a comment, tell a friend. We could keep going bigger, bigger guests, bigger locations, more value. See you in the next episode.