Transcript [EN]: How Bloom Built the Playbook Every Founder Will Copy in 2026

Your reputation is [ __ ] everything. If you're not all in, you're going to be beat by the person who's all in. >> That's Greg, co-founder of Bloom, a brand that's on track to do half a billion dollars in sales this year. >> I never reinvent the wheel. We take a wheel that's already existing and we make it 10 times better. The white space wasn't making a greens powder. The white space was distribution, accessibility, palatability. So, how can you look at a category that is saturated, but find the white space within it? >> In this episode, Greg breaks down the systems behind 15 billion views, 50,000 plus retail doors, and how he built a TikTok army with his wife, his mom, and his best friend from [music] high school. >> Leo is someone who quit their job and made $50,000 in like 2 weeks selling our clear protein powder on TikTok Shop. My biggest [music] growth hack to any entrepreneur today is just >> Guys, 180 million bootstrapped, >> [music] >> on pace for 500 million this year, built with his wife, his mom, his best friend growing up, the American dream. Stay till the end, we're going to give you the full playbook. Um less than 5% of marketing spend is on meta, 85 plus percent on influencer. You probably have like the largest in-house influencer marketing program in CPG. Let's just start super macro. Give people context on how and why we got to going all in on influencer. >> It's funny because so the the brand obviously started from my wife's Instagram page. So, we very much understood like the influence that a content creator could have, aka an influencer. And once we started to get some traction with our third product launch or fourth, which was our greens powder, we knew the way we had to get that in front of as many eyes as possible was through influencer marketing. I didn't know how to build out an influencer program, but what I did know was my best friend, Leo at the time, was working sales on biotech Wall Street, working like a crazy a crazy boiler room, which is like thousands of outbounds a day. >> Amazing movie, Boiler Room. You got to pop that one on. That's a good one. >> Amazing Amazing movie. So, he's in the boiler room. He's doing thousands of outbounds a day, and he's always telling me these war stories from the sales room that he's operating. And one day we, you know, we get together. We're in Manhattan, and we're like, "You know that boiler room that you're just doing thousands of outbounds a day? Can we just copy and paste that and build that within the walls of Bloom and just build the craziest influencer program that's ever existed?" And we knew that the product stuck, right? Like when people tried the product, they wanted to try it again, and they wanted to make content with it. So, like all we had to do was figure out the outbound. So, Leo ended up joining the team, and we just scaled that program to the moon. And now we have over 15 billion views across TikTok and Instagram, and it has been like the bread and butter, rinse and repeat. We have not fixed what is not broken and have just ran the same strategy for 7 years. >> Shout out Uncle Leo, here in the audience. Love it. >> So, he obviously came in and probably dissected the infrastructure, the numbers, the metrics. Let's just like double-tap on that. I'm sure there's a lot of people out there that hear about TikTok Shop and affiliate and such. What does the inside of this influencer program look like? Like how much outreach? What does the the unit economics look like on it? Are you paying people? Are you giving them an affiliate? >> On a basic level, it starts with the scouter, which could just be literally a 20-year-old intern. By the way, the entire team is under 30 years old. They are the Bloom girl. Your influencer team, if not your whole brand and as much of your team as possible, should look like your avatar. Right? So, all of our team, there's like six guys on the Bloom team and like 94 women. Like we are by far the minority, and that's because like I want our team members to look like the Bloom girl. And that has always been what works for us. Then from the scouting team, which is generally just interns, you go up to just influencer relationship managers. And then from there, you have the director of the whole team, who started as an intern at Bloom, and now she's just like leading this whole ship. Shout out to Jillian. She's a beast. >> And >> So, Jillian's at the top, and then there's kind of these account managers to manage the relationships. Yes. And then you just have at the lowest level just people just >> scouting >> 24/7 on the internet, on Instagram, on TikTok. I think this girl would resonate with our brand. >> And then some fun little tips that anyone at home could use is use VPNs. Put your iPads, put your iPhones around the country, get different algorithms. What you don't want is the same 19-year-old Italian girl who lives in LA who shops at Erewhon. Her Her algorithm as she's scouting will look exactly the same as every other girl in that room who is scouting. So you want people with different algorithms going on, right? Because you want to find the the the mom in Kansas. You want to find the policewoman in North Carolina. You want to make sure you're scouting them as well. >> That's a bar right there. That's That's a little cheat code right there. >> That's a huge cheat code. >> I'm big on the reset suggested content. If I ever feel like my algorithm is kind of going off topic, I I I reset it. >> I didn't know you could do that, so thank you for that. >> Yeah. So So you're saying literally you're completely agnostic to location. You just want it in random locations and you go by location. >> Yeah, and then you just change it up when you need a new algorithm. You just change your location using the VPN. Love that, for sure. Probably should have on like a VPN sponsor for that one. That's a That's a good one. Um how big is that that team? What's the size of this influencer team? >> The team has fluctuated depending on how much scouting we feel like we need to do and how much we're trying to scale the program. Right now the program is not scaling too much. We're in a very healthy place, but you know, it could range from 15 to 25 people in-house. And we've never tapped into an into an agency whatsoever. And this was also like the early days of TikToks when like content creators weren't just like all signed to UTA or like whatever the big agencies were. Like we were talking directly to them. So we knew their birthdays. We sent gifts on Mother's Day. We knew when they were having a tough day, and we had real relationships and we still do with our content creators. And then going back to the contract, it's just all reverse engineered around CPM, right? So if you guys run Meta ads at home and you know what your CPM is, let's say it's $20 per thousand views that you get. CPM is cost per thousand views. We just you I The best way to start is just cut that CPM in half that you're getting on Meta and that should be your goal for the influencer program. And if you scale it as robust and aggressively as we have and we've had CPMs that are below $2 for months at a time, which is like >> Wow, that's insane. >> insane marketing dollars, right? Insane efficiency. So, if you think about the 15 billion plus views that we've now received, which is dozens of Super Bowl ads worth of views, I mean, maybe a hundred Super Bowl ads worth of views. We We definitely are not paying $7 million for a Super Bowl ad for those amount of views. You know what I mean? >> So, in short, understand and know >> [clears throat] >> your baseline CPM. Most people are spending most of their dollars on Meta. You cut it in half. And then you want to win either obviously lower than that or even just better than Meta. So, it's just a new source. And then what are you doing? You're just giving people a [ __ ] ton of free product and some basic guidelines. >> Sometimes, depending on how big that influencer is, but I would say Going back to the guidelines, that's huge. Like, your content is at the discretion of the algorithm, right? So, if you give them some lame-ass product briefs because you're the suit in the boardroom sending somebody exactly what you want them to say, you might as well just do that yourself, homie. You know what I'm saying? Like, you are hiring that content creator because that is what they do for a living. They are the best at what they do. You should give them as much creative control as possible with that product. So, when we send somebody a crisp apple energy drink, just incorporate in your content like you always would. Explain exactly how you would to your community how you're using that product and why you like it and that's what we want them to do. So, there's a ton of creative freedom with our influencer program and if you don't give them that freedom, the video will not get views and you will never have a viral hit. >> Well, there's something that you're saying but you're not saying right now, which is absolutely crazy. I did this in the beginning of Iconic and people thought I was crazy. I mean, are you doing attribute There's There's no attribution. >> There's no attribution. We've never done an affiliate code. We've never done a coupon code and the reason for that is cuz we never We never optimize for Shopify. So, we're an omni-channel operation. >> This is You're just optimizing for top of the funnel. You just want as many people as possible to know where you are cuz they can transact almost anywhere cuz you're in 50,000, 70,000 doors. >> Every CMO, every head of marketing, every marketer knows that half of their marketing isn't working. They just don't know which half. That is very true for this program. That is very true for this program. Our attribution is a complete [ __ ] show. Any suit CMO would hate this program. The you know, the easiest way to do it is obviously correlating when a video starts to get some views, you you look at your Amazon search traffic. That would be like the easiest direct relationship that you could find, but that's not always the case if you're trying to run an influencer program for an exclusive SKU at Walmart. Right? You you don't know. Like the attribution window is People know jargon if I say attribution window? >> Yeah, of course. >> Like people you don't know If your attribution window is 7 days, but people only go to Walmart once every 2 weeks and they saw the video 2 weeks ago and then they convert 2 weeks later at Walmart. You don't know it's because it happened from that video they saw 2 weeks ago. You get what I'm saying? >> Yeah, I feel like a lot of people are just over obsessed over the attribution and this is just general. I've talked about before, just common sense and intuition. >> Yes. >> It's working for Greg at the highest of all high scales. I mean, you're talking about again, hundreds of millions of dollars. 85% is going to influencer. And when you say 85%, that is in what? Free products, free payouts, and then just >> shipping product, shipping cans is [ __ ] expensive, right? Like this is like a 10-lb package when you're selling sending a 12-pack. But it also is sometimes, you know, six-figure payouts. But these are pre-negotiated numbers before the before we even have them post. And so we can just look at I mean, the simplest way would be look at their last 10 videos, see what the average views are, and then you could figure out what your comfortability is for what you're willing to pay per CPM, right? And if you think that half of their following is in India and your product only available in America, then you know, cut that CPM in half. Like you need to make sure that the person seeing that video is your avatar. If I if I know I'm selling a product only for women and I know 25% of that person's followings [clears throat] are males, then I will just cut that that CPM 25% to make sure I'm only paying for the women, >> What what are those other things to double click on? So, half CPM, you win even if it's a bit over. Obviously, you want to diversify against Meta. Looking at the trailing 10 videos to see the blended views to back into the CPM. Asking, I guess, for their geography. You want them not to be [clears throat] 90% in [ __ ] >> What? >> Yeah. >> I mean, you know, a lot of our retailers are in [ __ ] So, we love [ __ ] but but I mean, you were even telling me the other day you found Bloom Energy in like the middle of nowhere, right? >> Middle of nowhere is like in a random convenience store in Santa Barbara. >> Okay, that's Santa Barbara. >> [ __ ] I'm talking about [ __ ] [laughter] like like Senegal, Africa or something. >> we'll find us in Senegal. >> Africa? I don't know. I don't even I don't think you're in Senegal. >> We're we're pretty dominant in just in just domestic right now in just the US, but we are definitely launching internationally. We're on Dr. Pepper trucks. Yeah. So, like we're anywhere you can kind of find a Dr. Pepper at this point. It's it's it's pretty incredible, and that's why it's 50,000 doors. But I would say the last thing is like it as you are trying to launch an influencer program, if you're at the early stages of this, you want to find the influencers that you think your avatar is already following, right? So, don't just like sign any woman. Like find the niche that you're talking to, and then find the the influencer that niche is already following, and then you can slowly get wider as you start to dominate that niche. >> And where are we at as far as biggest bang for your buck from a size perspective? 5,000, 20,000, 100,000? >> You you should have a diverse portfolio, but it's a game that works at scale, and I would say that if you only have a limited budget, I would I would strictly stick with like, I don't know, 5 to 50,000 followers. >> So, it's a little S&P S&P game. Just sprinkle in all different sizes. >> Yeah, shoot from the hip. >> And what about platform? I I would imagine you guys are very Instagram heavy. >> Majority Tik Tok by far. >> Wow. >> Yeah. By far. >> And what's second? Instagram? >> Yes. And then that's pretty much it. We don't really do anything on Facebook. We don't really do anything on Snapchat. We don't really do anything on YouTube at this point, and we don't we don't do a ton of podcasts at this point, and I can get into why in a second. >> Yeah. Hope you guys are enjoying the episode. We put together a free PDF on Greg's playbook on how he built the largest in-house influencer program in CPG, his 60,000-plus retail door strategy, his validity marketing strategy, how he built a Tik Tok army, and the one partnership that unlocked a 3x in his business. Links in the top of the description below. Enjoy the rest of the episode. I guess for me, these people on the Tik Tok side, I mean, I feel like everyone is programmed now. It's like the bar keeps raising for what percent brands are giving from an affiliate perspective. >> Yeah. >> People do people like this better cuz they're like all I do is just care about views, not not so much sales. It's more just views and >> CPMs. They like this better? >> Tik Tok shop is a very different game than Tik Tok. And I would say Tik Tok shop is an incremental game to Tik Tok. So, we still very much have the built-out robust influencer program that has no affiliate links, no coupon codes, and it's just like we're doing a normal content creator relationship in that scenario. And then we also are building out a pretty a pretty robust Tik Tok shop affiliate program amongst the Tik Tok shop universe, which is one of leadership's top priorities right now, for sure. >> So, where are you guys going? Under the notion that you guys are so heavy on influencer, you mentioned podcast, Tik Tok shop. Like where else are you going? What does the future look like for Bloom from a paid perspective? >> I have made all of the mistakes of shiny object syndrome. I mean, I've spent $3 million in 1 month on on on on you know, traditional media ads and got probably three sales from them. Like we this is how we plan on moving at the speed of culture and being part of culture forever is just I see I see this not changing anytime soon. Do not fix what's not broken. Yeah. >> Interesting. So, don't break what's not broken. I I like that. Looking back on what you've done, obviously you've done a lot right. What are some of the mistakes that you guys have made, whether it be influencer acquisition? >> I think just casting the wider net. So, if we keep the net narrow, I went back to changing the algorithms and making sure that we're seeing everybody in the country. The whole point of Bloom is being accessible to everyone in America, right? That's why we are intentionally in the We're in as many stores as possible. We are not strictly in the ultra-premium retailers of the world, and we need to make sure that we are signing and working with all of America. And so, making sure that if we're hiring a team that's only coming out of UCLA and they're in our Venice Beach headquarters, they can be biased towards the LA influencer. And so, making sure that they are aware of who the Bloom consumer is nationally, and that we are working with that influencer as well, would be the biggest mistake that we could avoid. >> of course, also like I mean, this goes way back before even Bloom existed. Like we grew Mari's following through meme page marketing. >> That was one of the biggest growth engines for growing Mari's following was we would buy meme meme ads and show her journey her fitness journey and say go follow Mari Llewellyn, right? And the amount of times I went all in on a meme ad to go try to blast her page with followers, and then it ended up just being 10,000 people from India that I could not sell a product to, and then, you know, we were eating we were eating tuna fish that night. Let me tell you. Like that was That was a bad night. >> Guys, we're going to get into the origin story for sure. >> Yeah, that's that's big origin story, but like we I I can't even I can't even say how many mistakes we had made even before Bloom existed through influencer marketing that now we're able to connect the dots and have this this optimized system today, right? So, this is 8 years running and you make a mistake and you make sure that the next day you start over from zero and you continue to move forward. You don't just like give up on the program overall, right? And that's why it works best at scale. >> I mean, to your credit though and for people out there listening, I mean, just like with a lot of things like you can say for from a retail perspective, you know, if you want to stay cool and elevated, you start boutique and then you kind of go downstream as far as like an ICP perspective. When I think of Bloom, I do think of like California and Texas. I think that that's a good starting point cuz I do think those are the influencers that influence the other influencers. Well said. So, it's a mistake, but at the same time it's like you're start you're starting at the top of the pyramid and now you need to go win in we're back to [ __ ] The [ __ ] of the United States. I'm not going to call out any random state, but let's just say like more in the middle. >> Flyover states. >> A flyover state. So, it's just just more in the middle. So, it's a that's a a mistake, but I wouldn't I wouldn't necessarily say it's a mistake. This all has to do with CAC to LTV and retention. I'd love to know like what are some of those like retention strategies that you guys are doing kind of looking at the end customer whether it be these like mixer bottles, these blender bottles, like the Bogos. Like, what are some of the things that you guys do that are they're optimizing for retention? >> I mean, optimizing for retention I think every problem in your business is probably a product problem. So, if you're having an acquisition problem, it means that your pro your product is not appealing to anybody and they don't want to buy it, right? If you're having a retention problem, it means they finally bought your product and then now they don't want to keep on buying it. But, I would say one of the biggest mistakes we made early on in Bloom just because of Mari and I's age at the time was going after a very young consumer. So, if you're selling ritualistic supplements that you're supposed to take every day for long periods of time or you're trying to create habits with people, generally a younger consumer is going to have a tougher time having a ritual, right? Like, I didn't have a morning routine when I was 20 years old. So, when we first started to really scale the greens business because of our age, most of our followers and most of the people we were converting were way younger and they just had a lower retention rate as a result. So, like that was not as quality of a business as it is today because it was just a younger consumer that like was not going to repeat and it was they won't even subscribe to things. Why would a young person subscribe to something? Like, I didn't subscribe to [ __ ] until I was like 30. So, that would be the biggest issue with retention. I would also say that's where community comes in. And what separates just selling a product versus building a brand is people are like people are rooting for your company and your community or your brand as if they're rooting for a sports team, right? And it's like people have followed along with Mari and I for 10 years now. So, 2 years before Bloom and then now 7-8 years with Bloom where it's like they've seen this whole journey. And we're throwing in real life events around the country. We're sending out free product to our top customers all the time. They're seeing these displays in Walmart and they realize it's not just like Coca-Cola's display. It's like Greg and Mari's display. And I think that they like ride that wave with us and they feel like they have they have stock in this company and they're they want to continue to support it. And the the feeling's mutual. Like we want to support our community back and it's been an amazing journey having people kind of make Bloom a part of their life. And now you see a Bloom trademark in so many different aisles of the stores because we've been able to create a platform brand with supplements, with soda, with energy drinks. I think Bloom baby could exist eventually, right? Like wherever our consumer's journey is very much correlating to my wife's journey. Obviously, we have a 4-month-old son at home. And I just think I just think taking them along for this ride and moving at the speed of culture, right? It's like female energy drinks weren't really even like a thing 4 years ago. And then now because some people have helped pave or some companies have helped pave the way seeing this this this cultural change and making sure Bloom's part of that with female energy is just the best way to keep the consumer coming back. But to be transparent, like we have parts of our portfolio that we're doing over $100 million 2-3 years ago and today they're doing under $75 million. Today like they're cutting in half years later. Bloom has net grown, but we've been able to follow with what consumers wants and needs are to keep on coming back into the Bloom portfolio, not necessarily the first product they joined Bloom with. >> Yeah, I think you guys have done a great job of building brand versus product and listening to it to your community. I want to double click on community and events cuz I just think everything ladders back up to just brand. Like the fact that you guys are doing all this influencer and not meta, it's paid off where people actually are really resonating with you on like an authentic organic level. I guess with that being said, like do you guys think you could launch anything and it'll work cuz people are just following you? Like, if you guys launch a car tomorrow, do you guys think it can work? >> I think I think you need to continue to level up with the size of TAM that you're going after. >> [snorts] >> So, we started with the most niche product that you could possibly sell. It probably had a $10 million ceiling. Female pre-workout with people who were sensitive to caffeine and had anxiety and the women were lifting weights, which in 2019 was like >> This is as niche as it gets, right? The largest that product could have ever gotten was $10 million. And then you have to recognize you look in the mirror and you're like, okay, this is a good business, but I'm ready for the next challenge and my community's asking me for other products. Then we made recovery powders. Then we made protein powders. Then we made the greens powder. And then we went into energy drinks. We were slowly going after larger and larger TAMs, larger and larger larger challenges. And I see no reason why we will not continue to do that. Do I think the end result is us creating a vehicle? No. But I think that there's like more aisles of the top retailers in the country, like I said, Bloom Baby, where Bloom could absolutely play in like other huge categories. I don't know what the hell is bigger than energy drinks other than maybe soda with our Bloom Pop, but like I don't know what the next challenge even could be. I can't fathom it, but like there's a lot of runway left for this energy drink. >> Yeah, I want to keep double-clicking on marketing. I completely agree. You guys have continuously reinvented yourself. Guys, we're going to get into it. The fact that you're like having products that are doing like 100 million plus, and I'm not going to say you're like aborting them, but you're definitely re-prioritizing your focus on new stuff with bigger TAMs. So, you guys are ultimately going after bigger and bigger TAMs in conjunction with listening to your community. >> They're asking for it. >> Yeah. >> Like they they if you actually grow a community before we even had Bloom, our community asked us to make supplements because we were selling workout guides and they said, I need supplements to take with these workout guides. So, Bloom was born. And then eventually, once we had some more credibility, like once we got to the greens powder, people were like, we really love every supplement that you're making. I'm looking for a better-for-you energy drink. Can you guys please make one? And so we just did, right? And so that was it's just us listening to our community and also, of course, listening to like what Mari and I want as a consumer as well and what are our pain points. Like we can't find a better for you energy drink that is like as palatable as what we would like it to be. So we made Bloom Energy, but yeah, I think like the community will tell you where to go, which is like why having that that nucleus of a brand is so crucial to building something that's multi >> the decade proof. Yeah, I mean, obviously you can listen via email, post-purchase survey, and the comments, but I do think in-person events has been big for you guys. What what's the thesis on events? Are you guys doing a bunch of small events? Are you guys guys going massive? Do you want to do a Super Bowl commercial? What is the actual like event strategy? >> I would rather fewer big events than many small events. Like I would I don't want to go have a thousand lemonade sales, right? I want to have like once a quarter something bad ass, take over a building in Soho. It's open to the whole public. I'm sick of this VIP [ __ ] for only the top end folks here in LA. I want our actual consumers coming to this event, lining up down the street, and to be able to experience everything for free. So like we just took over a retro diner in in Austin, Texas for an entire weekend you can literally book tables on like reservation.com. Like it was literally open to the public. Every meal was free and everything was as Bloom'd out and you were getting root beer floats. We were launching our better for you root beer there and you could get Bloom, you know, root beer floats, Bloom cheeseburgers, Bloom pancakes with root beer syrup, and it's like every meal was free. For just a whole weekend our whole community could participate and what I will say is that your in-real-life event could be so kick ass, but if it doesn't capture good digital content, it's probably useless. If you have a lame event that does make good digital content, that's a win in my book. So somehow you need to find the happy medium of the two, but it's like if you're going to have a thousand, even five thousand people, or maybe even just five hundred people experience your event, if they have the best time, I'm happy to give that back to the community, but you need to make sure the event is reverse engineered for digital content. Because that's going to be creatives that you can use for literally years to come. Yeah, so we we we had a we've had events three years ago in New York, or even in London, where like tons of our community were there, but we had so much content captured, we're still deploying some of that content today. So like that's that's or some of our favorite photo shoots happen at these events. >> Yeah, I mean it's wild. If you have a thousand people online, you need to get video b-roll of that content. Then you go back to that same city, you use that that actual b-roll. >> My favorite is, and I can go back to like comment sections and keyboard warriors and how I they've almost ruined my business many times, but my favorite thing to do at events is sample unreleased products. Especially for the energy drink, if we can have like 10 flavors that we're thinking about, and I even think like, you know, it's never the ones that I think are going to perform well. It will end up being like a blueberry lemonade that I never thought would perform well. >> Sounds pretty good. >> But yeah, it's coming out in a couple months. And then >> [laughter] >> so but if you can get like real life reactions, especially if it's not necessarily a Bloom community member, and it's just someone on the streets of SoHo, you get a raw reaction of which of these 10 flavors is your favorite, that is the best way to get consumer data. I [ __ ] hate syndicated data about, you know, if I'm looking at Target and Walmart sales, and they can tell me who it is and why they purchased it, or like post purchase surveys that I've had a ton of bad luck with. The worst story with Bloom was we when we were a protein business, because once COVID took off, we hopped on COVID, and we went crazy with protein powders for baking at home, right? And so which goes back to just like you need to stay ready, so you don't need to get ready, which I'll get into in a second, but having protein powders, and then we would get 50 comments a day, let's say, about making a vegan protein powder. And so this was a no-brainer. Our community's telling us to make vegan protein. And then we went all in. We ordered like, you know, 100,000 bags of this vegan protein. I think it was like lemonade lemon shortcake flavor or something like that. And it was going to be a hit. The community told us exactly what to make. And then we launched the vegan protein and the 50 comments a day, we sold about 50 bags. Because it was the 50 vegans that were following Bloom that were leaving comments every day. And I just called that the the loud minority is the keyboard warriors. I mean, as I'm sure you know with your personal brand that you're building now, like comment section, you don't even know if it's someone that even gives a [ __ ] about. >> to double click in and see if they have subs or where they're from because like you could kind of go back and forth with what you just said. >> This is why the in-person is so so valuable. I mean, you can even run as ads content of people actually trying and getting that that organic reaction. But like understanding and knowing like you could have never known those 50 people that were commenting were vegan. But if you're talking to these people, you can actually get the context. And kind of going back to what you said on syndicated data for people out there listening, something that's very, very surprising to me is I think it was on the Rone episode is I thought like from a conclusive evidence perspective, you need like thousands and thousands of people. Dude, if you get 150 people at your event trying trying the blueberry lemonade >> Yeah. >> and 135 of them love it, like that is enough evidence of Obviously, if you know who these people are and they're not some random person that's outside your ICP. >> Yes. >> That is enough to press the button. >> I'll take >> People don't realize how small it has to be to really get the evidence. >> I would take an n equals 50 of people walking around the street over more value than anything I can buy from some fancy syndicated data thing that I spend 50 grand for. For sure. >> That's wild. And yeah, I think just to re-pin on what you said for people out there listening, I mean, it's the same ex- it's actually the same exact thing from podcast. We've said it before is so many people focus on like doing these podcasts and then they like forget about like the content at the end and the distribution at the end. >> Yeah. If you have a really good product and nobody hears about it, then it's it's done. Same thing with an event. If you have a really good event and you don't have any event to capture then use later, then it's it's just those however many people that had a good time there. You don't get all of that kind of kind of long tail. So, that's some great advice. Also, last bit there is that's why our team is the Bloom Girl. So, essentially I have 96 people who can sample energy drinks and can sample products and tell me what they're consuming, what they just found in their favorite grocery store and why we should make it. That's our consumer and they work in our office and I can I can I can just look into our like, you know, community cafeteria fridge or our team cafeteria fridge and just be like, "Wait, what's this new product that four people just brought in today? Tell me about it. Let's order a whole bunch on Amazon and we're all going to try it." That has been the biggest incubation lab that exists for Bloom is just our team and what they're eating and consuming or or or drinking because that's our consumer. We hire the Bloom Girl. >> Yeah, it's wild to think just that to tie back on the event side. >> We're not saying that these are not good events, >> guys. They're great events. >> Yeah. >> But, it seems as though that's like that's like last on the pecking order. It's really just about the content distribution and then finding out if your ICP likes the product. For people out there, I think that that's a great piece of advice to give people is bring product that's not out, find your ICP, ask 50 to 100 people, and then not order vegan protein like you did with the YouTube content >> If you make an event that makes really good content, it's going to be a really good event. Like, you know, that that's that's a that's a direct correlation in my book. >> And from a a cost structure on that, I mean, all the things that we talked about and then you're just looking at just like top of the funnel awareness of what it is. >> Yeah, and then that's like of course going to be the content that not only everybody who visits posts on their page and we'll make sure we bring some big influencers to the event as well, but it's also we take a lot of pride in our owned profiles. So, you know, Bloom on Instagram, Bloom on TikTok, even like, you know, our founder's content of course like my wife or whoever may be is posting like crazy about these about these events. And so, like that content can get millions of views. And so, we take And that's like a very valuable million of like people we really want to make sure see it. So, that goes a long way as well. >> Yeah. And as you build your own channels, then you can start featuring people and doing co-branded posts, then you have value against >> For sure. >> obviously the people that you're partnering with. >> I want to tie up on the marketing side. For anybody out there listening, what would you say is kind of the single most important shift that people need to understand and see that's happening in marketing? What are you seeing on your side? >> I would say I mentioned earlier I'm moving at the speed of culture. There have been four monumental cultural interventions that have happened in just the last 6 years that I can that I can think of, right? The first was COVID. And I mentioned how we hopped on that and started to sell a ton of protein for people baking at home. Then Tik Tok was launched or Tik Tok started to really get some traction. Our team hopped on that so fast. Then, I mean, GLP-1s was like [ __ ] crazy. Seeing how much just like consumer trends and pallets have changed and like what people are actually buying at Walmart's and Target's and on Amazon because of this like pharmaceutical intervention that is GLP-1s is crazy. And then, of course, the most recent is Tik Tok Shop. And so, Tik Tok and Tik Tok Shop are two very different things and trying to balance the two algorithms and master both of them, any brand that can pull that off in 2026 going into 2027 will be the brand that can win omni channel. It's going to be the brand that can win not just Tik Tok Shop sales, but their Shopify, Amazon, and whatever retail doors they're in. Like that is the omni channel playbook right there is mastering Tik Tok and Tik Tok Shop as two separate things. >> Cuz you just think that you're getting the most bang for your buck as far as top of the funnel goes cuz everyone is knows that they can make money there on the affiliate side. >> The affiliate thing is like awesome. I was on a Discord call yesterday with I think like 150 or 200 of our top affiliates. And like they're just they're all quitting their 9-5s. And if they haven't, that's their goal with joining our affiliate program. They're quitting their 9-5s and they're doing this full-time. And we have someone who just made like a normal person who just made who quit their job and made $50,000 in like 2 weeks selling our clear protein powder on TikTok Shop. Like it's crazy. I think I think it the coolest thing about it is it's the first time our community can really like monetarily experience these wins with us. So it's like now our Bloom consumers also our Bloom sales person. It's almost turned us into like massive sales force and marketing force where like everyone can just like experience this growth with us. And because we're such an omni-channel operation in 50,000 doors outside of it, you know, our digital channels, we can really lean in heavy to how much we're compensating these people and how much we're compensating our our our content creators and affiliates because that channel isn't necessarily like what's keeping the lights on, right? Like we're we're allowing that halo to bring lift elsewhere. So when we're crushing on TikTok Shop, we see the TikTok Shop sales more than 30% of those going over to Amazon, going over to Target, going over to Walmart. So we're we're at this huge advantage where even though we're not these like crazy e-com TikTok Shop growth hackers, we can lean in so heavy on just how much we're incentivizing our creators because we know it's going to affect the whole omni-channel operation. >> Yeah, cuz you have EBITDA elsewhere. I mean, you guys are going to absolutely smash cuz when I think of like you know, these new playbooks where people are just running it up so fast, like Hudson from Comfort. >> Yeah. >> This guy's done like three in three or four years like a billion >> old. >> like a like a like a billion dollars. >> Yeah. >> He doesn't have the hedge in retail. So I think I can't think Correct me if I'm wrong. I can't think of any like CPG brands that are it probably ain't even 20,000 plus doors outside of Raw Hal with David Protein actually that are running it up on this TikTok Shop. So I feel like that you guys have an enormous opportunity here to to win on both sides and get the bleed over. >> The best part is is that most of my competitors who do have that amount of doors, They're the legacy corporations. >> Yeah, they're not. >> Coca-Cola's not on TikTok shop. Pepsi's not on TikTok shop. You know, Mountain Dew is not on TikTok shop. So, it's like I am selling soda. Red Bull is definitely not on TikTok shop. And I'm their competitor with an energy drink. And so, it's like that's where the young brands like us can really take some market share fast because they're probably still figuring out like when they want to launch it. And we're a year in, you know? >> All right, guys. If you guys are listening and you're not on TikTok shop, you have an advantage now before [music] the big boys come in. Sprint while you can. As an operator, I am always ask myself, what are the low-lift ways to save or make money? ChargeFlow [music] is an absolute no-brainer. Here's the problem. A customer buys from you, they get their product, they call the bank, and they get their money back. That's a chargeback. Most brands just eat it because it's actually built to exhaust [music] you. In my first few years of Iconic, we lost well over six figures before we put this in place. ChargeFlow is fully automated. It handles the evidence and the follow-through. You don't even have to touch it. Fanatics, Huel, and Hex, guys, some of the biggest names in e-commerce use it today. [music] And the best part is they only get paid when you recover money. It's a 4x ROI guaranteed or you pay nothing. [music] 60 days fully managed for free. Chargeflow.io with code open residency to tap [music] in. Stop giving back revenue you already earned. >> I want to change gears a bit and we're going to talk about kind of this reinvention playbook cuz as we mentioned, you guys are scaling stuff up and then just kind of going to the next battle. Let's start with just this $1.36 million day. For people out there, that's what they may or may not be doing in a year. Tell us about that day. What happened? >> Damn. All right. So, me and Marina were living in Brooklyn, New York. We had been there for about a year. We had just lost our one full-time employee, and we had had our greens powder sold out for quite a while. And you know, maybe maybe 6 weeks. >> Contextually, this is your hero product. >> This was our hero product at the time, and it sold out quick, you know, a couple of 6 weeks ago. But, we didn't really think anything of it. It was going to be a big restock day and we blasted our email list. We start the day at 9:00 a.m. We're in our first co-working space. We walk up the street from our from our, you know, two-bedroom apartment in Brooklyn and we get to the co-working space. We send out the email blast. We send out the SMS blast. We post on Instagram. Mari posts all over her Instagram and we just kind of waited and so much traffic came to our Shopify relative to what we were used to at the time. And within 12 hours we did $1.36 million. And now obviously we do like over a million a day. But at the time, that was just like, "What the [ __ ] just happened?" And the worst part is is that we actually sold out that day. So so I had to tell our consumers again like, "Sorry guys, we sold out." But I learned two I learned three things that that day. One, restock is the most powerful word in validity marketing, right? And everybody, especially with the digital brand, should be chasing validity with everything that they have because you are still just like the random Instagram brand. You're still like the random influencer that made a CPG product and you need to find words of validity or or statements of validity that you can attach to your brand as often as possible to be associated with, you know, the big brands that people don't question buying. >> So marketing language we're talking about here. >> Marketing language. And like, what what is more valid than we've had to restock this three times? Right? Then people know, oh, somebody bought this so many times that it's sold out three times and now it has restocked. >> I've seen I this one hat brand I was going to Instagram store it's like, "The hat that's been restocked 11 times." And they're doing And they're doing like $2 million a year off just that messaging. >> That's fire. >> Yeah. >> Restock is the most powerful word in marketing. And I would say second is like, that was the first day where we had to have some extreme discipline and say, "We're not going to touch this [ __ ] money. We're going to roll it back in." Right? And so that day we took that $1.36 million and we called our manufacturer and said, "We will take $1.36 million of more greens, please." Right? So then we So we just rolled it back in and so we just kind of continued snowballing. We were bootstrapped. We bootstrapped to million. and so that was the first day where it was like discipline is on the line. We're not going to go buy a BMW. We're not going to go buy an apartment. We're not going to do anything. We're just going to double down and get more product. And that was kind of what we did with Bloom for I mean, up until today, really. I mean, we were profitable, but cash flow-wise, like just to grow at that scale, the money was always going back in. And so to have days like that and have the discipline to to roll everything back in and put your back up against the wall even when you have a place where you can take some comfort is just what makes entrepreneurship and what makes a brand grow in this fast. >> Yeah, it's always good to have money in the bank. Maybe you can get a little 4% on T-bills. You can you can get creative there. I'm not in the inventory game, so with you guys it's I mean, it's just it's a cash suck all the time. I want to double click back in that marketing copy cuz you said something there and it's something that I've seen you guys do a lot on the internet and you with your personal brand is not only like restock. I'm sure there's a lot of other words, but just like saying things that only you can say. >> Like there's so much stuff that like the more you grow, people like don't want to flex, but at the same time like you should flex and say the social proofing things that nobody else can actually say. >> Yeah, and and social proof is the best way to say it. I would say building in public is the only reason Bloom exists today. How are you going to separate yourself from the corporations? It's building in public. And if you're to me, building in public is one founder forward. Like if you if you have two I've seen pride kill some of the best entrepreneurs. Put up that cringe content. Put up you in the manufacturer. Put up Maybe occasionally show you having the bad day. Don't cry on camera every [ __ ] day, but once a month maybe you can cry on camera. And and and building in public and sharing validity statements along the way, even if you have to use the word this is how many we've sold. And I think coming from especially the female content creator point of view, which was my wife, obviously, talking about your business as if it was a business was like lowbrow in 2019, 2020. It was like lame for Mari to run Facebook ads saying, "Come follow my page." It was weird that she didn't want to just go sign the big Gymshark deal and wanted to actually make her own brand, right? And so, not allowing your pride to stop you from doing the the against society's suggestions, way of life has been what has made Bloom. So, like examples of validity statements or announcements that we've made along the way is like, "We're number one on Amazon." I don't need to know anything else about that product. If you say something is number one on Amazon, I want to try it. If you want I used to post if Target would send us an email about how much we crushed sales at the launch day, I would screenshot the email and post that on our Instagram and say, "We just crushed Target." And if anyone is wondering about whether or not they want to try that product and they see that we're now the number one selling OTC item at Target. And we just And we beat [ __ ] Flonase even, then it's like, "I should probably go try that product." So, like constantly posting validity statements will open so many doors for you and will just increase your chances of good luck, right? And I'm not just talking I'm not just talking about getting more consumers. It's going to have retailers calling you. Wait, this product's crushing it in Target, I should probably also have this on my shelves. So, it's going to have investors come to you. It's going to have people that just want that are talent acquisition. The only reason we've been able to attract such an incredible team is because we have shown everything that we're doing on a on a on a quantity and quality level through LinkedIn, through Instagram, through TikTok. And because of that, people are like, "I want to go join this movement and join this team over in Austin, Texas at Bloom." Right? So, it's like if we weren't building in public this whole time, I think Bloom would be 10% the size. >> I love that. I feel like I don't see it much outside of CPG. I see like Dom, Ross Shackelford with Breeze does it. Hudson has done a good job on the apparel side of flexing it, but not enough people I mean, I'm just thinking in my head like seeing these Instagram stories where it's like a Microsoft Excel sheet and it has like the week over week percentage and you see like you against, you know, you against like an a huge brand that everybody knows, immediately it opens the curiosity gap. >> And it allows you to never run those annoying ads of like comparing my greens to another greens. Right? Or comparing my energy drink to another energy drink. I never talk about the competition. I talk about what I'm doing and that's all that I want to talk about. I don't want to shine light on anybody else. And I I do think this goes back to like because we were so much in the female space, this was like very odd in the female space because like people were too were too were too posh to talk about the business that they were scaling. And this was difficult for my wife in the female space coming from England where like no one talks about how big their business is. Like it is not pro entrepreneurship over there. So for us to like break through this uncomfortable spot of talking about how much we have sold was was tough for us, but it has paid dividends every single time we have made these announcements. >> Love that. So you guys are nine figures from a greens perspective and then kind of going back into that reinvention playbook, you then go on to energy and soda and all this other stuff. What are those moments for for people out there? Like those reflection moments? Like how and why and when? Like why did you know? Obviously you're saying you want to go after bigger TAMs, but what are these like key inflection moments that say, "Hey, we need to go on to the next thing." >> The the biggest the biggest key into going into the next thing is I never reinvent the wheel. So with any product that we're going after, first and foremost, we do not reinvent the wheel. We take a wheel that's already existing and we make it 10 times better. So we are not the first greens powder. We are not the first energy drink. We are not the first better for you soda and I wouldn't have it any other way. And so when Bloom Greens was highly competing with AG1 at the time called Athletic Greens, if they signed Joe Rogan, if they signed, you know, a a huge front page Wall Street Journal publication ad, whatever, I loved when they did that because all they were doing was rising the tide for all of these ships. They were advertising for greens overall. And if there's one thing you don't want to do as a bootstrapped brand, it's spend your money on education. I don't want to explain to anybody what an energy drink is. That is a waste of my marketing dollars that I need to spend on explaining why mine is better. Right? And if I don't need to teach and there's already cup holders in the car. Right? It energy drinks go in this can. I'm not going to put it in that exact shape. It's a Of course. I'm not going to put an energy drink in a soda can. I'm not going to put a soda in an energy drink can. >> I don't even notice that, but obviously, yeah, you're right. >> Of course, right? And I'm not going to put an energy drink in a [ __ ] milk carton, even though that'd be hilarious. Like I'm going to put it in an energy drink can. >> think there's white space for that. >> Well, little uh innovation there. >> So, if there's one thing that I I think so many people get overwhelmed entering a saturated space, but you want a saturated space because that means so many brands have already spent the money educating people on what this product is. >> And then you can win on product, on brand, anything and everything else. >> Yeah, and then I would just say like as as you're going after challenge, you know, one of the ways that you can just know you're meeting a savage entrepreneur is if you see them every 6 months, they're like completely different. >> Yeah. >> Right? Then you would then when you saw them and you're like, "What the [ __ ] happened to that guy? Did he get a haircut or something?" Or is he just like acting completely different? And it's because if you're truly leveling up at business and constantly going after bigger and bigger challenges, like you're going to see that in your self-development as well. And you're >> not even going to be able to recognize yourself in old photos because of where you were at as an entrepreneur and where you were at as a brand. >> And as we were going after bigger and bigger categories, it just kind of was like, "Why would I continue to give my mind share to something that has such a low ceiling?" At the time, maybe it was booty bands, then it was pre-workout, then it was recovery powders, when I can give all of it to something that is 10 times the size. If I never did that, this energy drink is obviously doing more in a day than the booty bands could have done in an entire year, but the booty bands business was comfortable. Like I could have just stuck >> going to get into the booty bands business. The booty bands business and the PDF gang that was That was an interesting >> In that In that In that era of my life, I was talking to Pakistan on WhatsApp more than I was talking to anybody in America. Like WhatsApp and the Kick app I was I used to be on a lot with those shout-for-shouts on Instagram. >> occasionally go on Telegram if things are getting crazy. If you're on Telegram, it's getting weird. Signal [laughter] Signal was out there for for a little bit. >> Dude, it's so crazy, man. I forgot who I talked to about that. It was Brian Grathwohl, CEO of Skullcandy. Great episode. >> Just the more and more mature that people get as entrepreneurs, like Don't want to be first mover. >> Yeah. No. >> Don't want to be first mover. >> No, and and this word like why would you want to launch an energy drink? That's a saturated space. It's like that's exactly why I want to launch an energy drink. There's already a place for this in Target. There's already a category on Amazon. If you're creating a product and there's not already a category for it on Amazon, get ready to need to raise some [ __ ] money because you're going to need to go educate all of these people and 90% of them won't even want to buy your product. >> Yeah, with that with that being said, I do think there's something to be said about if you do do that, you could have an asymmetric outcome and win huge, but the chances >> That's not my journey. Speaking for myself. >> Yeah. >> You're you're layering on top of the pre-existing brand and you can just turn the lights on on a random category. >> What are those key things that you're looking at when you're looking at a new product? You mentioned TAM, you mentioned asking your community. Is there anything else big that you guys look at? >> just say that the that the category stale. Right? So when we saw the energy drink space, we were like, "This isn't cute. These products don't even taste that good. There hasn't been much change that has happened here in a while. And for some reason, a lot of these brands are still growing. Like the category overall was still growing rapidly." So you don't want to enter a declining category and then go try to like revive the whole category yourself, right? So energy and soda were to us stale. >> And these are like these are like a hundred billion plus market. They're massive. >> Oh my god, it's insane. >> And it's global. >> Yeah. >> So it's like And because we were Something that I have looked at now in my career in the last 3 years is what categories have a higher barrier to entry. So, when we were launching just supplements, it felt like every month there was just another 19-year-old in a penthouse in Brickell, Miami who was somehow creating a a legitimate competitor to us on Amazon, right? So, it's like, "Okay, if the Brickell penthouse [ __ ] can create a competitor within 60 days >> to pop up with a ton of Brickell [ __ ] [laughter] with a bunch of Lambos, yeah. >> Yeah, with a bunch of with a bunch of rental >> May or may not be rental, yeah. >> [laughter] >> If they if they can make a competitor to this business that I take so much pride in, then did I really create something that special? And how can I now play chess instead of checkers and create strategic barriers to raise my barrier to entry? So, the first of course was just going into retail, yeah. Right? So, like, I know that you can't just get into retail in 60 days. And so, that started of course with Target then Walmart and then now we're at 50,000 doors, but the second was like signing massive strategic partnerships with some of the biggest companies in the world. So, like, with the energy drink, a very difficult, high capital to start, you know, huge MOQ's. A supplement you might just need 20 grand to start the whole project, right? But with the energy drink, like, huge MOQ's, we're on Dr. Pepper trucks, we already had the retail relationships. It still worked with everything that we were doing in terms of influencer marketing and the relationships that we have with those retailers because of our nutrition business. So, it's like, what synergies can we find that we can connect the dots to still creating something innovative, but but allows us to use the strengths that we've built over the last decade. Right? So, I wouldn't go start You mentioned a car earlier. They don't I don't think they sell cars at Target. Right? Like, how can that And that's one of my strategic partnerships. So, it's like, how can I make sure that whatever my innovation is using the things that I have accumulated over the last 10 years. >> You should read this book, Porter's Five Forces. It's on competitive analysis and I feel like we're starting to see more about production and supply chain and now what you're saying distribution, like those are starting to become like the biggest moat possible. The fact that you own the mindshare of the target buyer, whoever it is, you have the ability, you're at least going to get a crack to bring in X new product. >> And then, I mean, you want to talk about the target buyer, like this wasn't at Target, but one of the old-school ways to get a buyer's attention at a retailer was just Let's just say we're talking about Target, they're in Minneapolis. You would buy the billboards in Minneapolis for your brand. And then they would be like, "I'm seeing this brand everywhere. Like, how I should probably call them up and try to get them in my store." Cuz you always want a scenario where the buyer's calling you and you're not calling the buyer, cuz then you're going to have the leverage, right? >> And so, how we did that in 2022 or 2023 was we would find the buyer and who they followed on Instagram. And then we would sign all of those influencers. And they'd be like, "I'm seeing this product all over Instagram. Everyone I follow is talking about it. Can we have a meeting? Cuz I want to get this on my shelves." So, that was always the best way to get somebody who's who is, >> you know, Illuminati to us. >> Yeah. Get their attention. >> I love that you said that, cuz people, on the Grateman episode, he talks about it. He's like a maniacal hawk, I'm looking at his phone and looking at the tables on his restaurants. Like, the reality is is like that happened, and I'm going to take a wild guess here, you're not going to be like to that buyer, like, "Oh, I did that on purpose." Like, you never you you don't say anything, and you can create this massive strategic engine in and around them without talking to them. And obviously, they're going to come to you, you're not going to go to them. More people need to do that. >> Yes, and more people need to realize that there are humans behind those desks. >> Yeah. Like, you you imagine these massive corporations and that you're just talking to some like, you know, binary computer making only objective decisions, but the reality is is they're making emotional decisions. And they want to make a bet on you. And if they're seeing a brand crush it digitally, they want to be the person in the walls of that retailer that took the chance and brought in that digital brand, and it was a huge success. So, if you can find like the intrapreneur within these large corporations and figure out how to partner with that individual. That's the person when you're in a meeting room with 10 people at a large corporation, you're looking at them the whole time. >> Hyper-hyper focus on that one human. >> That one entrepreneur that wants to make a name for themselves within the company and they will take the bet on you. >> Yeah. So for someone like you, someone that goes to the gym six times a week, sub 10% body fat, we can we can talk about stuff. >> [laughter] >> Stuff like that. >> Perhaps. >> Throughout this whole entire journey, you're bootstrapped. So you bootstrapped 180 million, no outside capital. >> I'd love to give people context on why you chose that route and now what has been the payoffs. I want to get into the partnership after, but why did you guys not raise outside capital? >> you know, you you mentioned reading a book a second ago. I graduated college with a 2.4. >> I was 2.1. >> 2.1. [laughter] >> 2.11. Five years, University of Delaware. I needed to get a certain score on the last test. >> That's first That's the lowest I've ever heard. >> But >> [laughter] >> aren't you curious? I'm so curious to like I would imagine that I can go back and get a 4.0 now cuz I like when I focus on things, obviously I'm When I focus, I'm good. I'm curious. You think you could do good? You think you could get high grades? >> I think I could now. I think I I would like to think so. Yeah. Yeah, and I would and I would probably be not taking Adderall and I was taking a ton of Adderall for like >> You want to [ __ ] around and go take a like a a Harvard digital class or something? >> do that. >> I'm down to do that. >> do that. It's like [laughter] two weeks, like 2,500 bucks. I'm down. Let's do >> we could get it on our LinkedIn and then we could get a consulting gig. >> Amazing. >> [laughter] >> And then we could take a picture outside of Harvard and then and then we can flex that as well. >> That's hilarious. >> I like that. So I'm not an academic. My wife's not an academic. >> When we launched Bloom, she had dropped out of college at that point. She was working the front desk, the opening shift at an Orangetheory Fitness, like cleaning the [ __ ] bathrooms. It was the worst. And I grew up in a society where it was just like lawyer, doctor, finance and you're going to an Ivy League school, otherwise you and your family are never going to be talked about again. Right? Like that's all anyone cared about. And I was like this kid who could not even finish a sentence in a book cuz my ADHD was so outrageously miserable. And I finally was able to to figure out a space where I could use that ADHD and harness it towards hyperfocus on one thing, which started as the gym, right? So, I just got obsessed with the gym and I seem to get some like positive society status around being the person that was in shape. And then I realized, oh, if I just teach people how to get in shape with my wife, we'll make a whole following out of giving this free value away, right? So, that was the the the the the the seed for everything that had started was taking this thing that like most of society said was like kind of dumb and we were not academics and I can't even read a book. And it's like, how do we choose that one thing that we are good at and start our community by giving that away as free value, right? But, your question was, why do you bootstrap? Was it just Did you just not know any better? >> Going back, yes. So, going back to not being an academic, we didn't even [ __ ] know what enterprise value was. I didn't realize that anyone would want to like buy a brand like Bloom Gloom or buy a piece of a brand like Bloom and become a large-scale investor and like I had no idea what any of this was. Like, even when we had the $1.36 million day, like I thought that was crazy, but I didn't know what anyone else was doing. Like, we were locked in a room forever just working together. So, we had kind of no idea what we were creating the whole time. And it's funny like even when we ended up moving to Boulder, Colorado, which is we moved there because we were starting our entrepreneurship journey. We had Mari Fitness, then we had the Slay app and we moved to Boulder, Colorado because we just needed to get away from the society and this culture that we were in of lawyer, doctor, finance. And we lived there for a year and a half. We don't have one friend. We didn't make one friend in Boulder, Colorado. It was just my wife and I working every day, 7 days a week for a year and a half and that's where we launched Bloom. But, yeah, we had no idea what we were building. And then one day we were we were at, you know, a trade show and someone came up to us and we were like, are you aware of what this business could be worth? Like, and we want to buy a piece of it and we could help you, you know, scale it up. And we had all of the fun private equity conversations and none of them really floated our boat, and we were profitable at the time, and I don't know, that just like wasn't really our thing. Shout out to anyone who does private equity deals, like do do your thing. That just like wasn't Bloom's path. And so, yeah, we had no idea what that was. We had no idea. >> So, why Nutrabolt? Let's talk about that deal. That was a that was a big deal you guys did a couple years ago. >> So, we had a nutrition portfolio, and we had a little bit of a reputation for ourselves of like, you know, we we were continuing to take quick swings, and not only were we able to sell an amazing greens business, but the greens business was Bloom as an overall platform brand, and we really understood social media. And we were kind of like the new the new hot thing on the block. And I wanted to go after beverage. Once we we were told from private equity that if you add a beverage to the portfolio, two things will happen. One, no one was acquiring beverage businesses at the time, right? So, like, you know, Celsius buying Alani, or Keurig Dr. Pepper buying Ghost, or whatever these recent transactions are that have been happening. >> Context, what year was this? 2022? 2023? >> 2022. >> Yeah. And 2023. >> Yep. >> And so, there wasn't a market for energy drinks, and even worse, generally a large-scale strategic doesn't want to buy like a platform brand. They want to buy an amazing collagen powder brand. They want to buy an amazing just alone energy drink. >> on the bone. They don't want it fully >> Right, cuz like Nestlé might just want the supplement powders, but they don't do energy drinks, and then Keurig Dr. Pepper probably only wants energy drinks, right? So, I'm not speaking for Dr. Pepper there, but we knew we wanted to go after energy drinks, and I also knew that I was just like a 28-year-old that was trying to figure out like how is I going to level up my career, and so after talking to a thousand different potential partners and private equity and banks and whatever it may be, we had a choice of either just selling this whole business, or trying to go after the next big challenge with what we had built, which we knew would be beverage. And the only person who was down to partner with us on beverage was Dos Cunningham, who's the CEO of Nutrabolt, which is C4. We all Most of us men in America probably tried C4 pre-workout sometime in our life. You probably snorted it at some point. And so >> [laughter] >> No no snort. Talk a lot about No Explode on this. You You remember No Explode? >> BSN, hell of a product. >> There you go. Hell of a product. That's a banger. >> Mine would I would just keep it in the trunk of my car and it would like crystallize in the bottle and like if you could get a crystal before an arm pump, it was over. But anyway >> This was the steroids before the steroids guy. >> Yeah yeah yeah for sure. Thank god for those two. >> Yeah. And then >> [laughter] >> and so and so we we sat with Dos and there was two huge things that we noticed. One, he had taken a C4 pre-workout brand and had also launched it into C4 energy drink and scaled that to over half a billion. So it was someone who had done it before. >> The exact playbook that you guys want to >> Exact playbook but for men. So in theory we could plug into the same manufacturers, the same sales team, the same distribution partners, which at the time he had an inked contract and still does with Dr. Pepper. So out of the gate we could get a beverage onto Dr. Pepper trucks. On top of that he was one of the only, you know, I don't want to speak for him here but he was one of the only billionaires I'd ever met that still had his whole family intact, you know, every time I called him he was at a baseball game for his kids and you know >> Good dude. >> Good dude. Texas Texas values and it was like I need to figure out my mentor cuz I have no idea like what type of person I'm going to turn into especially with like the size of the business that I'm running, the amount of wealth that I'm coming into, whatever it may be. I was like I don't want to lose my wife and all these other rich people are losing their wives so it's like how do I figure this out? I should probably go find a mentor to work with. >> And so I came through in the PJ guys. Just just quick context. [laughter] We'll talk about that later. He came through in the PJ. >> That's crazy. >> Yeah. >> But I I actually tried to get a helicopter from the airport. So so I I had two things. I had like a personal and business mentor that I could go work under in my 20s and also somebody who had the playbook of how to launch this beverage. And when I think about partnerships, if the word strategic doesn't come before that, I think you might as well just sell your whole business, right? And we didn't want to sell our whole business, and I knew that if we signed a contract with Nutrabolt with the intention of this being a a joint venture, of making a beverage together, and getting Keurig Dr. Pepper involved, I could sell 30% of the business and the business would be worth three times the amount the next day. So, if you're going to sell a chunk of your business, which will be the most expensive or valuable contract that you ever sign in your life, it better be something that increases the enterprise value of your business because you are now associated with that brand, right? So, on day one of signing that business, we I mean, we sprinted to the R&D lab, came up with Blue Energy, we were already in talks with Dr. Pepper, we got an exclusive launch with Target just 6 months after that. So, it just took 6 months from signing the partnership contracts to having a product on Target shelves, and it blew out of the water, then 3 months later got in Dr. Pepper trucks, and then now 2 years later we're in 50,000 doors. >> Let's stop for a second there. You said pretty big inflection point there. You had offers in your company, so >> Yeah. >> So, you had a nine-figure offer for someone to buy your company. >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the business the business was profitable, omni-channel, it was a hero skew brand, it checked all the boxes for like what a business would what type of businesses people want to acquire at that time. >> No risk, no reward here, guys. >> But what the hell was I going to do? Be like a 28-year-old and lay on a beach? And then even now today it's like I have this son and it's like or I have my son at home and it's like if I sold Bloom, he's just going to like not see me go to work every day, or he's just going to like see these cans in stores and not even believe me that I made it. So, it's like, you know, what what actually matters at this point? >> Yeah. And ironically, so many people that's like the the Mark Zuckerberg thing. It's like, "Why didn't you sell for a billion dollars?" He's like, "Oh, I would start the same company." And you actually start seeing that. >> Exactly. >> episode is is is a perfect example of that. He literally sells an RX bar for 600 and then he waits for his non-compete and does another protein bar. >> And catching lightning in a bottle twice is a whole other level of risk. I already had lightning in a bottle. So, why would I give it up? And so, I knew that I could take what we had and just make it I mean, this could be you know, generational. We've all seen the Monsters and Red Bulls of the world just go decades and now they're handing down the the the the crown to the to the I don't know what you call it like their their >> Their next person. >> Yeah, I mean, the fact >> that you guys have all the retail doors and TikTok shop affiliate and like you guys are going to absolutely hammer the >> Yeah. >> [ __ ] out of that. >> We're excited, man. >> That's going to be absolutely crazy. How did your job change kind of overnight? You signed the deal. What is Greg before that and what is Greg after that deal? >> It's funny cuz like one of one of my rules with talent acquisition has always been one, hire for your pain points. And sometimes your pain points are just the things that you don't enjoy doing. And I love building brands. I love marketing and I love, you know, disrupting and embracing culture. I don't really love the supply chain side of things. I don't really I definitely don't love the P&L side of things. Like I don't have Microsoft Office on my computer. I hate spreadsheets. And >> Leo said that 6 months ago you downloaded it. >> Yeah, well, I haven't opened it. And >> [laughter] >> Yeah, I use I use Mac numbers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> That's some that's some that's some ghetto [ __ ] He he text he texted me yesterday. I told him no Microsoft Excel today. I'm more like a Google Sheets. I know like I like three or four different like little ninja lookups, but I'm happy with AI. So, we can really >> For real. Yeah. >> And so, with that deal like they handle all of the commercialization of the product. They handle all of the supply chain for the product. I don't really need to like worry about these 18-wheeler trucks going on around the country cuz Dr. Pepper handles that. And so, I was able to kind of get rid of everything that I don't enjoy doing and was able to embrace what I'm good at and what I do enjoy doing. And Doc is the P&L guy. Doc is like gets fired up with the spreadsheet in front of him, right? And like Dr. Pepper loves logistics and sending this product all around the country. So, I basically have this team where it's like if you can make a strategic partnership where it's 1 + 1 = 3 and you're both doing what you love, then that's going to be a a magical ride off into the sunset. >> Yeah, it sounds like a a win-win there. Have you had to kind of boil down obviously this guy is an OG and he took the same exact playbook. If you can kind of boil down some of the key learnings from him, what are some key things that he's taught you over the last couple years? Cuz obviously you guys have had explosive growth with him coming on as a partner. >> It's funny like we have a pretty a pretty impressive board for Bloom now that we we do have a cap table. And a couple of them are self-made billionaires. And we'll have a problem with his energy drink, which you would think like for these incredibly high IQ people that are on our board, this is like this is simpleton stuff, right? And we'll have a huge problem that we bring to the board and they'll just be like, "Man, this is a really tough one. Like I I don't know." And I think it is like the the biggest thing that I take away from that is just like we're all humans and therefore this is free game for everybody, right? And it's like everyone has something that they're incredibly good at. Very few people are 10 out of 10 at everything. I'm definitely not a 10 out of 10 at everything. I'm a 10 out of 10 at one or two things. And >> I feel like you're a pretty gangster generalist. You're like a like a little bit of a Swiss Army >> Yeah, you're a Swiss >> Maybe. But you know, just just understanding that like we're all humans participating in this game and no one actually has that much of a greater advantage than anybody else. And so, I'm a I'm a huge fan of again like going into ca- the 4-minute mile. Like the once the 4-minute mile mile has been ran, other brands were able to do it. That's why I went after energy drinks. There was already a playbook to follow. And so, just like understanding that there's a playbook to getting to this much success and trying to take as much notes as I can from his day-to-day life, which is I mean, the guy's in the office every day. He doesn't need to be. You know, he's he answers my texts quickly, no matter what, and does not need to do this anymore. And just like continuing to say stay cognitively stimulated on a regular basis, and and embrace everything that comes with that, has been like the coolest thing that I've learned from all of the successful people around me. >> How old is this guy? >> He's in his mid-40s. >> Oh. Damn. Let's go. >> Yeah. >> Let's shift a little bit to to product and retail. Retail, before we get into specific retailers, like what's your framework of deciding which product goes into kind of which door? How does How does that work? >> You know, I've played the exclusivity game a few times, and it has created a lot of drama. You know, if the prod does well, the other retailers will be annoyed that they didn't get first. And I love FOMO. Sometimes FOMO is like the greatest game that you can play, and I love a little bit of drama, cuz they'll act upset, but then place a twice as large order, right? But generally speaking, I try to shoot wide, give it to anyone who wants it, and not play that exclusivity game. And the sales will kind of dictate on its own, like which retailers should really pay the most attention and give the most attention to that product. I'm not a huge fan of like, "This is our Whole Foods product. This is our Costco product. This is our Amazon product." Like because of our digital marketing, and it's being shown to everybody, I kind of need to make sure that the same exact product in all of its forms are available everywhere. >> Interesting. We touched on Amazon a bit, and you mentioned like you you don't win on Amazon on Amazon. I completely agree. How do you guys look at just that whole entire flywheel from a dot-com to Amazon, and then into retail? Like what's the holistic approach? Is it just all top of the funnel, and just let it let it like fall as it may? >> Well, our business is less than 5% Shopify. So, the day >> Wow. >> Yeah. Well, but keep in mind we're beverage, too. So, this is our largest business in the portfolio now is our beverages, and no one has a D2C beverage business, right? Like if you want a beverage on e-commerce, you go to Amazon. So, it's it doesn't really work even like shipping a case. >> you say 5% D2C, that means just the the Bloom website, not Amazon. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, like true direct-to-consumer our our our Shopify. That said, when we So, we were a D2C only brand for the first 18 to 24 months. The day that we extended out of Shopify, we went over to Amazon. And the day we went over to Amazon, I did what every other entrepreneur at the time would have hated me for doing. I used our email list, our SMS list, all of our Instagram portfolios or or or profiles and said, "Go buy on Amazon now." I knew that we had hit the glass ceiling on Shopify, and I knew that the instead of just making a new product, there was a larger TAM to go after just on Amazon, and kind of just like realizing that Amazon itself was a social media with an algorithm. If we could bring so much exogenous or external traffic over to Amazon and kind of arbitrage that whole SEO that exists over there, we could double the business that was happening on our Shopify by just playing the Amazon game correctly. And you play that game correctly by sending people from outside of Amazon to Amazon. >> Yeah, so is that the best way to win on Amazon is you have to sacrifice elsewhere? >> It It depends what you consider win. Like I'm a guy where when I'm moving on to the next challenge, I am literally willing to sacrifice the last thing that I just won, right? So, I've done that even with launching new products. I've done it with launching new channels. And so, when we sacrificed Shopify to win on Amazon, there was a net gain. And then when we went into brick-and-mortar retail doors, do we sacrificed all of digital resources to go towards winning Target. And then winning Target opened the doors to 50,000 other doors because that was the proof of concept that this product can work in brick-and-mortar. And when I say sacrifice and you and you take your foot off of the gas of those other things because I'm a very big fan of not having a diverse diversified portfolio even with your mindshare and what you're what you're prioritizing, it's not like our Amazon just fell off a cliff the next day. This is the top three energy drink on Amazon but like if you're moving on to greater challenges, whether it's in products or within the retail doors that you're going after or the consumers that you're going after, the larger challenge will halo back to what you just sacrificed or what you are no longer giving resources to. So I'm a huge fan of like if you go after bigger goals, the things that you leave behind like won't just die overnight. If anything, they'll just become like cash printers, right? >> Yeah, you still get some some drip. I feel like yeah, I don't want to like typecast like all different CPG products but from like a drink perspective, it's just retail's obviously the most important, it's the most amount of doors. Amazon is second cuz it has intent and then Shopify should be last. >> Dude, Shopify beverage doesn't work. It's too heavy. Just shipping cost unless you were going to charge the consumers $25 for shipping which no one's going to do that. You know what I mean? >> Yeah, got to got to go subscription. I feel like you got to go heavy on that to make it worthwhile but I guess you still get hit with the shipping. >> Amazon's won that. >> Interesting. So I know we talked about just wanting to go into saturated, you know, markets but obviously there was probably some sort of iteration on like white space. What is like the white space that you guys have seen like on the retail side? Like what specifically did you see that made you want to obviously go where you're going now? >> So I mentioned we were kind of head-to-head following the coattails of AG1 at the time and they were the top selling greens powder at the moment and they were DTC only. And they were super expensive and they tasted like [ __ ] So the white space wasn't making a greens powder. The white space was distribution. If they were only DTC, then I'll go into brick and mortar. The white space was accessibility. Be a third of the price and be everywhere. Be easy to buy. The access the the the the white space was palatability. So how can you look at a category that is saturated, but find the white space within it. For us, it was the energy drink space that the white space was the femaleism being spoken to correctly. It the products aren't cute, right? So, to me, white space is how do you zoom in on the category and find the white space within the larger category. Go saturated, but find the white space. So, AG1, you just completely piggybacked and just went different distribution. And then the energy drink energy drink, you just did branding, positioning, a little bit of different ICP >> Yeah. On the female side. >> Yeah. And I would say, of course, you know, center of excellence of distribution as well. Yeah. With Dr. Pepper. >> surprised, too, when I like Googled you guys. I didn't know how forward-facing you are on the female side. Like it's like on like you type it into Google and it talks about like women's drinks. >> Yeah. I mean, I We were We were made We are made by women for women. I think the energy drink has allowed us to tap into more men. It's funny, going back to syndicated data, generally speaking, the the mother of the household does the shopping, right? Majority of the time. And that's just how society is set up right now. And the mom is swiping her credit card. She might be 35. She's a female, but she's buying the Doritos and Red Bull for her husband. The syndicated data will show that as the mom is buying it. So, you need to be really careful with who's swiping the credit card. But what's also amazing about selling to the woman, if she is doing the household shopping, is when I make a soda that's healthy for the whole family, the mom is buying that for her kids. She also She >> sets the trend because she's she's stuffing the pantry, right? So, she will get the husband or the boyfriend to start trying this product that she's trying every day. And I feel like that influence doesn't happen nearly as much with the male consumer. Very rarely does my wife want to start consuming a product that I take. I want to try the products that she's trying, right? Like she'll like help me with my clothes. She'll help me with the food that I'm trying to I I could eat ground beef and [ __ ] rice every meal, right? And she'll like take me to the new restaurant to go try. I'm never taking her out of her comfort zone. I should probably do that more, but >> [laughter] >> but like the the women kind of influence the entire household way more than a man ever would. And so, I've never sold to men directly, but I I don't think I would have it any other way. >> Yeah, and we talked a little bit off camera. We're going to get into it. Just personal brand. I feel like that guy it might have come from the woman then he's on Instagram and then he starts getting your content and the guy content behind Bloom and starts resonating it with more. >> Dude, and I would imagine it's the same thing for hospitality. Just cuz I obviously just finished your episode. Like I would be so curious. Obviously there's like a male female ratio that you want in any type of nightclub, but like even at restaurants, like you want to make sure that the woman is comfortable there. The guy's going to be comfortable anywhere, right? But like or a gym. You're opening up a large We were just talking about a sick new gym that you're going to and getting in the best shape of your life. Like you need to design that place for women to be comfortable. The guy will be comfortable there, right? Like if you make a place that's like toxicly masculine, a woman won't step foot inside of it. >> 100%. They're getting the continuity because my wife is comfortable and I like going to the gym with >> Yes. Yes. >> So, that makes a lot of sense. All these big retailers, what are some of those key things we talk about all the time? Obviously, the sell-through, not the sell-in. What are some of those kind of those key things? Obviously, I know you're talking to these retailers a lot. How do people get the sell-through? Anything big you want to touch on there? >> All right. So, first of all, I go to these meetings in person. I don't just send a salesperson. We have the best sales team out of anybody. Love our sales team, but like I try to go in person and be on a first name basis relationship with anyone who's a decision maker at these retailers. That is huge. And I've found that as a consistent variable even when I talk to the the biggest multi-billion dollar energy drink companies. They can name you who is currently in the seat of decision making at these retailers, and they have their number and they're texting them, right? That is crucial. >> Guys, you've heard that stuff from some of the best CPG guys on this. So, >> You're never You're never too big to think that you can't go have that relationship in person. And as my life has gotten more complicated and I've had to take my foot off of the gas of being on an airplane as often, I I can see it it hurting things. And I would say on top of that, going back to like controlling your luck, what are things that you could do to to have better luck luck and more doors open throughout your career, your reputation is [ __ ] everything. If a retailer places a PO and you aren't able to fill it or if you know, you do fill the first one and it sells really well and you can't sell more inventory, that's very different than running out of stock on Amazon or Shopify where you're only accountable to yourself. If you do that to a Target or Walmart, that's that's their business and that'll be an empty shelf. Like these are huge cruise ships. They can't just put something else there. But a similar thought there would be now when Walmart has an energy drink company that can't fill a PO and they have an open spot in the center of their doors and you know, action alley they call in the center of the Walmarts, they know they can call Bloom and we have will have enough inventory. We do have the supply chain. Greg will pick up the phone and say, of course I have a product that I'll make just for that situation. >> That is a 100% relationship based. >> Yes. >> And and and then that person it's a net new spot that you can take and if you do well with good sell through and they like you, then that'll be the person >> Relationship and reputation. >> Yeah. >> And I think it's funny because I would say if you're in the first five years of your entrepreneurship journey and that's a blanket statement or a broad statement, I'm not pro networking. I think that if you're in the I say I think stay locked-in and build something special and if you build something special, the network will come to you. When I was in the first five years of my career, no one gave a [ __ ] what I was doing. Anyone that I wanted to go have dinner with or wanted to go network with, why would they give me the time of day? Like that's just the reality of society. Once I built something special, once Bloom was doing over 150 million dollars a year, they were in my DMs. They were texting me, hey, we should, you know, cross paths and figure out how we can trade notes. And so, I think networking in the beginning of your career is a super overrated fun thing that that sounds productive, but the reality is you're not going to really be able to network with anybody that can move your needle until you're also building something special and can provide value back to them. These are transact Networking is transactional. >> Yeah. I think for people out there listening, I don't think the number necessarily needs to be a hundred million, but I think like >> special >> I would say 3 million, 5 million. >> Yeah. Get get to a point where like you actually understand and know how to operate a business. >> Yes. >> Yeah, before >> And I mean, dude, I remember the the beginning days of Iconic. I didn't leave the [ __ ] bean bag. I just I didn't leave that whole apartment. It was literally like COVID was nothing to me cuz COVID was what it already [ __ ] was. Oh, dude, my life did not change at all when COVID hit. >> It was an opportunity. >> I went 60 I think it was 68 days in a row where I went past the refrigerator three times. I did I did a hundred pull-ups every single morning when I woke up, and I did not leave my my nook. >> was legendary. >> Dude, I would also say my biggest growth hack to any entrepreneur entering their 30s, I just turned 31 a couple weeks ago, sur And and of course, as you get older, surround yourself with young people. That is the biggest growth hack. These young people, I mean, it's almost like how I was like the Instagram guy because I was the generation that grew up with Instagram and Instagram to me was the same thing as I going on a walk. That's them with AI. That's them with TikTok Shop. Like my favorite people to network with is not the billionaires that have already made it in their 45 and like whatever they did worked 20 years ago. I want to talk to the 22-year-olds that are rocket shipping these businesses overnight using the new tactics. So, my biggest growth hack to any entrepreneur today is just surround yourself or regularly cross paths with young people. They know the true hacks. >> Yeah, I completely agree. For us in the AI space, we just met with this guy, Remy. He's 21 years old. >> crazy >> in Miami was >> crazy >> insane cuz he's just cracked >> crazy >> 18 hours a day on this stuff. >> To tie a bow on the target stuff, what about from a a communication perspective? Like, are you asking them what is doing good, what's not doing good? Are you showing them product before it comes out? Like, what is those other kind of little nuances that people need to know to make sure they're asking the right questions? >> I I think this goes back to like, what would a human want to see, right? And they want to feel involved. They want to feel like they are taking a chance with your brand as well, and they want to feel entrepreneurial, right? They're intrapreneurs within the walls of their corporation, and they have a crazy job. They have like a limited amount of real estate where they need to choose a product that's going to live there for 6 to 12 months, and that's a huge that's a huge risk. And if you can take them along the journey of R&Ding a product with them, then that's huge. I would also say they're they're not entrepreneurs for a reason. So, if you go there and ask them for advice on what to make, be very careful. That goes back to the keyboard warriors. Like, they don't necessarily know what will work. And if you want to make sure they feel involved, you know, there are obviously some tricks to that. You can show them three products that you know two of them suck, and you want them to choose the middle one. Just, you know, show them two products that suck so that they choose the third one that you actually want them to choose, and then they feel like they're part of the process. But, you know, that's just part of like semantics and and dealing with humans. >> Controlling the options, that's good. >> Controlling the options. >> Yeah. >> And but I would say like, yeah, love having relationships with them. They they will they will generally change seats very often, so you'll have a new person every 2 years. >> I hate that. >> I I get why it happens, right? Cuz like you you when you're competing with 20, 30, 40-year-old businesses, and they like are at people's weddings at these retailers at this point because they've done business together for 20 years, and like I'm trying to get my foot in the door, it it is it is advantageous for for getting new brands in, which I'm always pro that. But, yeah, having having having a real you know, then again, if I'm being totally honest with you, I don't do dinners. I don't think that you need to like really get to know who Greg is. Like, this is a business relationship, and I want to talk about building something really special with you, but I don't see any advantage to us breaking bread together. In a in a in a fully transactional relationship like that, if anything, I almost feel like you want to have an illusion of yourself as like this large decision-maker running your business and I don't want to expose to you that we are all humans or that we are all that I am like, you know, stressed about the same things that you're stressed about. I need to come in there briefly with a ton of confidence, involve you in the process, and then get back to my dungeon and and work. >> Predictability. They want predictability. >> Yeah, I don't think that like you should necessarily have like you shouldn't talk to them about your personal life. Like that's not what they're there for, that's not what we're there for, we're there to do business. >> That's what this is for, guys. We're about to get into that next, personal life. Sure. Tying up on the retail side, what's one thing you know today that you didn't know in the beginning? >> Retail, similar to every business relationship I've ever had, is generally what have you done for me lately. And nobody you do not deserve to be treated differently because of what you did 3 years ago. You deserve to be treated differently because of what you've done in the last 3 months. And that is how I would like to be judged and that's how I would like everybody else to be judged. That is how capitalism works and I agree with capitalism. So So, I think in the past I thought that once we had an incredible summer of 2023, then I could lean on that to have a strong 2025. That's not really the case. It's like if you want to have a strong summer 2025, you better have a good Q1. >> Rent due every day. >> Rent due, yeah. [ __ ] yeah. >> I use WhisperFlow for hours [music] every single day. I think way faster than I type. I speak about 220 words a minute and type only 45. WhisperFlow closes that gap. It's a voice-to-text tool that works anywhere on your computer or phone. You talk and clean formatted [music] text shows up wherever your cursor is. All right, let me show you. I'm going to answer a real email right now without typing. You can see here Ty guys asking for feedback on our intro video for the next episode. Watch how I respond. If you could just make a few changes, [music] uh make the red a little bit brighter, the typography a little bit smaller. Uh for the music, if you can just give me some other options. >> [music] >> And that first photo, some more options as well. Uh please give me three options for each. And uh make sure you send it to me by [music] end of the day Friday. Thanks. So, as you can tell, the text is way cleaner. I kind of speak in half sentences [music] and sometimes mumble on. This makes it very clean, formatted perfectly, and avoids all the small mistakes. This is a product that I cannot live without. I promise [music] you that you will love it. If you guys are want to get 1 month free of WhisperFlow Pro, click the link below and use code Open Residency. All right, we talked a little bit about the machine. I want to get into the people. As I mentioned in the beginning, this truly is the American dream. Started the company with wifey, brought in Uncle Leo. I don't know. He's Your son's middle name, right? >> Yeah. >> And then your mom was the CFO or accountant until 100 million. Why don't you just walk us through kind of like the original cast of how this all started? And then I just want to get into kind of the sequencing. You've moved from like a ton of places. And let's just kind of go through each of those checkpoints. >> So, Mari and I moved five or six times in five or six years. And I think one of the best ways to control your luck is just be in the geographic area that like best suits your goals. So, Mari and I finished school in Philadelphia, which is where we kind of launched Mari Fitness together. Then we moved to New York and lived in our dad's attic, and that's where we started to have our first physical product, which was the booty bands. Sold like a million booty bands, which was a crazy business in itself. And then we moved to Boulder, Colorado, cuz we just felt like New York was not the place that like really embraced entrepreneurs. And so I Googled top cities for entrepreneurs, and then Boulder, Colorado popped up, and we kind of [ __ ] with hiking, I guess, not as much as people in Boulder. And so we moved to Boulder Colorado, packed our bags, and just immediately rented, you know, a two-bedroom townhouse in Boulder Colorado. And we stayed there for 18 months, and that's where Bloom was born. And we just stayed locked up, and Mari and I, and just tried to study social media and and what the female consumer was looking for, and then we were done with Boulder Colorado. We moved back to Brooklyn. We thought again that that would be a place where now our careers would thrive. It definitely didn't feel that way, and we were really starting to embrace influencer culture, wanted to build out the influencer program I was talking about. Mari was becoming like a larger-scale content creator. COVID hit, and we were like, "Fuck it, let's go try this LA thing." And for context now, like, there's many hubs around America where you can go do the whole influencer thing, but at the time, like, content houses and, you know, every big agency and every big brand activation, it was all happening in LA. That's like, Hollywood was where dream dreams were made, right? So we packed our bags, moved to LA quickly when COVID hit, and we got a month-to-month Airbnb in Santa Monica. It was one bedroom, one bathroom, and that quickly became the Bloom headquarters in Santa Monica. We had probably seven to eight people reporting to that Airbnb at full scale once we got to full scale there. And that means that those seven or eight people were using Mari and I's like personal bathroom, right? It was a one-bedroom, one-bathroom. And so, that was, you know, these are like the true grind days of Bloom where we had a team. And so that was me, myself, Leo, and a couple of our of our initial employees, and then my mom was back in New York doing finance. And so, Leo is my best friend from high school. That whole hire happened because it was we just had the million-dollar day, things were really starting to scale. I needed to find somebody that we could trust. I just lost the one employee that we had who lived in Boston. We had a falling out, and I said, "The only person I could trust that could literally get our bank account passwords right now." I didn't know what LinkedIn was. I didn't know what any I going to start like just putting up [ __ ] stapled job listings on telephone poles. I called Leo and we'd had the conversation about launching the influencer program and him coming on and Leo is my best friend and neighbor from high school and he was like, "Yeah, I'm all in, man. Let's [ __ ] do this." So, Leo joined. We're working out of this Airbnb. This is like I mean, this is just like discipline and entrepreneurship summed up because Black Friday, the day after Thanksgiving, means that we couldn't go to Thanksgiving with our family for like four or five years because was too big of a day and Christmas, four days later is January 1st, which is like the Super Bowl for any wellness product. So, we couldn't go to Christmas for four or five years. We didn't fly home for the holidays at all. We had Thanksgiving with the team in that Airbnb. We had Christmas dinners with the teams in those Airbnbs. >> What you said there, too, it's uh for me, for people out there in the beginning, I actually recommend not going home for Thanksgiving and Christmas. And obviously, like I care about my family deeply, but I remember like the first year or two that I did go back, I was like not present at all and it was almost even worse. >> Well, you were a huge Black Friday company, I bet. >> Huge Black Friday. But, it was really fun with >> Dude, I feel like the first iconic I ever bought was on a Black Friday sale. In college. >> There you go. >> Yeah. >> But, it was fun. You do want to make sure transitionally you get those Shopify ching-chings. >> Yeah. >> Like it was fun in the middle years. I would do it. I would sit in the kitchen with my mom and I would keep the Shopify ching-chings on. That was a fun bonding moment. >> That's when they realize like, "Oh, you might actually be up to something." >> Yeah. >> Right? Cuz otherwise, they think that you're just like I mean, it's funny. We we launched Mario's >> fitness and we were using a TD Bank student account. >> And I didn't even like trust banks at the time. Like I had no idea what the [ __ ] was going on. So, every day I would move our PayPal balance cuz we didn't have a Shopify at the time. I was having people DM us if they wanted the product. I would say, "PayPal me $9.99." And then I would email them the instant download PDF. And then if they committed to that fitness guide and showed that they they actually gave a [ __ ] Mario and I would personally train them through a 50 to 100-lb weight loss transformation and eventually had like 100 people who had 100 lb weight loss transformation that was validity for this massive instant download workout guide business that we were creating. >> So the genesis of Bloom was these instant down these PDFs and the booty bands. For people out there listening, what was the size of this business? >> Oh, like multi-million dollar a year business and like there was no cog, right? Like it was just instant download PDFs and the reason there was no cog is because we were finishing college, right? Like we had no money, we had university laptops and we would go to a local Barnes & Nobles and just crank out on Canva, the I think it was Canva, on Canva these instant download PDFs and just exactly the types of weightlifting workouts we wanted to do. And if you bought the guide, you would get a Facebook community, you would get private Instagram pages with videos of each exercise, you'd get tons of just like free content and that's what like really started building a community for us, right? It's even like Mari launching a podcast for our community where she would bring on like the top doctors around the nation, neurosurgeons, mental health, whatever it may be, for free for our community. Like that's what building a brand and building a community is and we learned all of that from the Mari Fitness days. And so we scaled that business as a PayPal business. But going back to the TD Bank story, I remember had no idea what was going on, every day I would take the PayPal balance and move it over to our TD Bank and then I would go to TD Bank in my car and withdraw all of the cash and just put it into the car's glove box. And then eventually TD Bank was like, "Dude, what drugs are you selling? What is this like weird daily withdrawal that you're doing? You can no longer have a bank account here." So I was like, "Fuck this, like what do you mean? Like I just want all of my money, da da da." So we drive to Chase in Westchester, New York and we're going to open up our first business account. I don't even think we had an LLC at the time. And we were like, "Yeah, we have an Instagram business we would like to open up a business account." And they're and then you know, we got through the paperwork and they're like, "Do you guys even like have any money? Like what's the what what are we doing here?" And Mari just took out 50 grand from her bag and just put it on the table and was like, "We have this." So it was like, [laughter] we like still just like had no idea what was going on. We were two like 21-year-olds with like all of this cash. And we're just like, I think we need a bank account now. Like we truly had no All we knew was action. We didn't know education. So, we were just moving forward and kind of figuring it out as we go. But, anyway, we're back to LA now. Fast forward to 2021, 2022. Uh we're working out of the Airbnb and eventually some WeWorks there, but from LA we bootstrapped the business with our first headquarters. We bootstrapped the business to 180 million and that's when we started the partnership with Nutrabolt. And upon signing the partnership with Nutrabolt, me and our main team and family moved to Austin, Texas. Just to show them how serious They didn't ask us to. Just to show them how seriously we were taking the partnership and we needed to put all of the odds in our favor for this partnership to work. So, Dr. Pepper's based out of Texas, Nutrabolt's based out of Austin, Texas. We bought a building in East Austin and that became Bloom's new flagship headquarters. >> So, zooming out, I mean, five places, five years, it seems like. What's the advice you'd give to any young founder out there? Just go wherever the [ __ ] you need to go. >> Go wherever you need to go because one of the best ways for you to increase your chances of luck is to be in the right place at the right time. So, you know, I don't think LA is necessarily the right place today for that to happen, but it was at the time. So, whatever that is for you today. >> Makes sense. And you think just if you're in the beginning, they should just be willing to sacrifice anything at that stage, I feel like. >> If you're not all in, you're going to be beat by the person who's all in. Yeah. >> Fact. >> not working Thanksgiving, then you're going to be beat by the person who's working Thanksgiving. >> Random opinion, where do you think is the best place to start a company right now? >> Dude, I'm pretty bullish on this Austin place. >> Yeah? >> I'm pretty bullish on it. Like >> Why outside of Texas? >> It seems to be like the entrepreneurship CPG hub that I've looked for my whole career. And I don't think it was that 5 years ago based off of what people tell me, but in the last 2 years, I am like blown away by the amount of CPG or just overall founders that reside in Austin, Texas and the culture there is like Texas values of just like come over for dinner, let's talk about how to make each other better. They all have family values and like it's not it's not a lot of this there's no gatekeeping. There's no gatekeeping. Everybody's open book, which is how I've been my whole career. There's no [ __ ] secrets to anything that I'm doing. I think that it's all in the execution and I can tell you my exact playbook and you know, there's no prescription to go recreating Bloom, right? And so I love trading notes. I love meeting with other founders. I find that I can almost only relate to other founders on a social level at this point and on top of that is the perfect time zone. The PST time zone like really [ __ ] up my business or like how I would operate in business like trying to get onto calls at appropriate times with people in New York or internationally in the UK and talking to my family in New York was tough living in LA. So like Austin is like the perfect time zone and it's a perfect travel hub cuz you're sitting in the center of the country. So I don't have any more like 4-hour flights or 4 and 1/2 hour flights to New York. Everything's just like 2 and 1/2 hours away now. >> Strong cos on. Let's talk a little bit about personal brand. We talked a bunch off camera. Obviously, you know, Bloom was built on your wife's platform. She goes on maternity leave. You've kind of stepped into personal content. What's the hardest part of >> Dude, I I cannot believe how hard it is. >> [laughter] >> It's a lot. >> I cannot believe how hard it is and how much work it is. I'm blessed to be in a place where I was immediately able to get like a head of my media who's JJ's here today and he runs the whole show with me. Shout out to JJ. And everyone on the Bloom team has like I don't know I don't know They support me more than I feel like I even deserve, but everyone on the Bloom team who are all like huge social media heads and like on top of culture, they've supported the hell out of me and just want to help me as much as I can with my content and they're hyping me up on a regular basis, but I would say building a personal brand to me is like the rawest form of entrepreneurship. You are the product. So, if I'm the CEO of Bloom and it's a 100-person company and I have a bad day, there's 99 people that can make sure our Bloom still moves forward. If I have a bad day as, you know, Greg Labs is my handle now, I'm Greg LeVekia, then my product is having a bad day. So, it's like the level of accountability and like it just it just fires me up like how much the the table stakes. I just love it. I find it like very fun and scary. >> It's literally every day all day if you're putting out content on volume. >> Like I can't be [ __ ] hungover. I could like, you know, be hungover a couple cuz I know I'm like locked in and I [ __ ] work out. I'm in the gym every day at 5:00 a.m. but like I like tequila, I like cigars. I'll feel like [ __ ] some days. I got to have a lot less feeling like [ __ ] days now with this personal brand. >> We were just talking off camera. I mean, I think you need to embrace the airplane mode cuz nothing's worse than like coming on a podcast like this and someone just blowing a bomb on a text message right before you come on. >> Dude, that would [ __ ] me up. That would [ __ ] me up, man. It would Yeah, it's not of course it's not just like physical being in the gutter. Like not just >> It's way more mental. >> It's way more mental. Like I just like need to stay in a good mood and I've surrounded myself with people who hype me up. Like you know, whether it's just of course my wife saying good luck on the podcast right now or I have Leo with me right now is still my best friend and lives in is still my neighbor in Texas. But uh like just making sure he holds back bad news until it's an appropriate time to say it cuz there's always fires. There's a fire at Bloom every [ __ ] day, right? And like figuring out how to keep everyone in the company in the greatest optimistic creative state at all times really just comes down to like cadence of communication, let alone embracing communication. >> I feel like there is people on both sides of the coin and they are very, very passionate about their stance where it's like you seem to be someone that you should build in public and you should be creating content as a founder and other people, ironically the people that are not creating content as founders. What have you seen like the personal and brand benefit that has come with you putting your name out there, your face out there, and talking about everything you're doing. >> You know, it's funny cuz like I don't I don't even have 100,000 followers. But the quality of the followers in the sense of like people the inbound of people who can truly help me move the needle to get closer to my goals has blown me away. And I think it's because there's not a ton of us doing this. So it's been just like I'm so motivated to continue building these platforms and to continue posting because of the amount of inbound of just like like-minded people from around the world that I've gotten to meet because of it. And it's made me a better dad, a better entrepreneur, a better husband, a better friend just through interactions digitally. >> Yeah, it's so crazy. It's actually ironic. I'm actually going to use the line that you said and kind of I kind of unpacked. Content is a very saturated market. But from my white space perspective, the amount of operators that have like a minute All you All you have to do is have like a minimal amount of juice, a minimal amount of brain, a minimal amount of social proofing, have a business that's like real, like >> Yeah. >> there are so few and there's such a demand for that type of content. And like I can think in my head we don't need to go through the names of like sub 10 people in the whole entire world that are putting out consistent content that are males running a real company showing you behind the scenes of what they're doing. >> I And of course we've all been tricked by every course seller with the rented Lambo, right? And it's like I think we're all just [ __ ] we've been sick of them from day one. And it's like so cool to now see real operators making content and setting the stage or setting the example for the next generation. It's [ __ ] awesome. >> Yeah, I think too we should do a little test. I'm going to ask a bunch of you guys that have been on the pod to do it is like I also think that it's a CAC arbitrage. Like the reality is is like when I was in Santa Barbara like I never was someone that would have bought a balloon and then I'm like, "Oh, Greg bought bought a balloon." And now you're going to I'm going to win on LT You're going to win on LTV on that. So >> if you were a male influential person at a large retailer who would have never seen my wife's content or would have never seen any of the female influencers who post about Blume. A guy might find my [ __ ] And who I who can actually change the trajectory of Blume. So again, just like what are things you could do to increase your chances of luck? I think building a personal brand is one of the biggest. >> Yeah. Sahil, who was on the episode, has a great book. His his new book coming out eventually is about increasing the service area for luck. And I feel like what you just said, too, it goes back to like the no attribute You're doing CPMs, but the no attribution on the influencer, it's just like I know people that have come on the podcast and they've literally found investors cuz people are like, "Oh, I watched the podcast." So investors, biz dev, content. I mean, there's a million different ways that people can come into the funnel. >> I'm not I'm not I don't really have an active portfolio, but like my deal flow is ridiculous now. >> Yeah. >> Right? Cuz it's like people want me to get involved in their business. And so I I have to decline 99% of them, but like it's I I was like, "Oh, this is how you get deal flow." Cuz I was always surprised like why like brands didn't want me to invest. Like, "Don't you know what I'm building over here?" Right? And I was always like insecure about my status in society because I was like, "No one has recognized what I've built." And it's like, "No, you just start making some content about it." And it's like, "Oh, no one was recognizing cuz they didn't [ __ ] know." The tree falls in the forest and no one's around to hear it. Like, you need to shout from the from the rooftops like when you are doing something special because there's so much going on on Instagram and the news outlets that it's like if you don't try to make sure you're heard, no one's going to notice. And some people don't want to be noticed. And shoutout to them, but I I don't I have too much insecurity. So I want people to notice. And so it's been huge for that. >> I think regardless of insecurity, ego, whatever anybody has, I just think that dollar for dollar >> Yes. >> it makes sense. >> Yes. >> We'll see how it shakes out. Guys, this episode is sponsored by Ketone-IQ. I often sit down in this chair for over 3 hours and stay super dialed with ketones. [music] It's a completely different category of fuel for your brain, clean, sustained, and no crash. I take a shot before recording, before deep work, and any session that I need to be sharp. Head [music] to keton.com/openresidency for 30% off your first subscription and a free gift with your second shipment. [music] That's k e t o n e dot com/openresidency. Guys, this is something that I use every single day, non-negotiable. Give it a try. I want to shift a little bit into into leadership. I guess let's just start like super macro. What would you say like is your leadership style? >> First and foremost, lead by example. Right, like that is the best thing that you can do every single day is just, you know, create create an environment where people, and this this goes back to just having an a headquarters in Austin, right? We are not a remote company. I do not operate well on Zoom calls. I, unfortunately, to my team, have had to tailor the entire organization about the environment that I thrive in, and I have found people who also thrive in that environment, which is like a very as few Zoom calls as possible, as often as we can get into a room together, with as little technology as possible, that's where the creativity has happens. I think everyone in the company, it's not just the marketing and the brand team, creativity is how people thrive. So, how can I create as a leader an environment where people as creative as possible, right? Whether that just means there's incredibly healthy snacks and tons of caffeine and, you know, lunch every day is, you know, provided to the team, but it's also like just an awesome building that we own, and we have been able to just turn into the Bloom the Bloom House, the Bloom World. And so, people are just constantly coming into our headquarters and being in a state where they can be incredibly creative. It's also a headquarters where I run a podcast studio out of this headquarters. It's called the Pursuit Network. And so, we have like really influential people coming in and out of the doors on on a daily basis, and it's like it's an open door policy at our headquarters. There's other entrepreneurs in Texas that just pick up a desk someday, and it's like you you want that activity. You want those new ideas those souls coming into the building and you don't you don't want a you don't want a stale under the the bright white lights type of environment. >> Yeah. >> You know in in your building. I don't want a [ __ ] dentist office. So, I would say leading through example creating an environment where creativity thrives but also positive and negative feedback loops. You can't just constantly say the things that you don't like or constantly say the things that you do like. Then there's this infinite options for the for the latter. You need to give positive and negative feedback loops and I am very pro anger management. You need to control your emotions in any business scenario emotions will make you lose the scenario. So, I used to earlier in my career I thought like writing an email in caps lock was [ __ ] badass and everyone was going to see like how much I how passionate I was about this thing and then it's like oh, I wrote a caps lock email to the wrong person. And I realized like how much that can [ __ ] up your trajectory. So, I don't know if there's been more than two or three times that I've gotten like angry at a team member. I don't think there's a place for that at least at the Bloom office. Like it is a very lead through positivity and do not lead through fear environment. >> Yeah, I asked Uncle Leo what he thought about your leadership. He said he tenaciously follows up and questions everything. Always leads with that. Great motivator of people. Always positive. Always optimistic. >> Yeah, and I and and that You guys know each other. >> That's what is that? Chat GPT asked really? >> No, that That was yesterday when I called him. >> You [ __ ] called him? >> him, bro. >> Wow. >> Yeah, bro. >> Damn. >> Your assistant hooked it up. >> I got a speech at his wedding soon. I'll make sure I double down on that. But I But I am >> Rip him up. >> Yeah, really. They'll be mostly Brazilian and not speaking English so I can really say whatever I want. And >> [laughter] >> But yeah, I think Dude, these people are my family. Like we have people who have been with us for the better half of a decade at Bloom who have moved states multiple times with us, which is still blows my mind. There's a few people a bunch of people that are going to be multi-millionaires that a traditional trajectory for their role would not have made them multi-millionaires because they're at Bloom. And so, seeing cool cars in my parking lot that are not mine, nothing fires me up more than that. >> Love that. You run basically 95% female company. >> Yeah. >> Tell me more. >> I I I wish I had intention behind that. I don't. All right? It's like I I try to hire the Bloom the Bloom consumer, which happens to be a female. And I think generally speaking, a female thrives, you know, with a brand or a person thrives working on a brand that they are passionate about and that they want to consume. So, just the it it's just shaking out that way. Bloom is a meritocracy. Like, the hardest worker wins in the room. The one with the greatest output wins in the room. And it is just always fallen towards female team almost always fallen towards female team members. It's all I know. >> Yeah, I mean, that's just great simple advice. It's just hire team members, especially on the creative and brand side that are ICP. What about hiring from like traditional big companies? Have you done that? >> The biggest mistakes in my talent acquisition journey have been trying to hire people from the corporations that I wanted Bloom to be like or like that had already achieved the goals that I wanted Bloom to achieve. So, if somebody were to apply Let's just use Red Bull as an example. We're here in California where they're based or in LA. Let's just say I wanted to launch an energy drink and I start to get some inbound resumes that say Red Bull on them and I just go, "Oh, wow. They probably know all about the magic that's happening over there. I'm going to expedite their whole their whole interview funnel and just get them in these walls and then we're going to be able to figure out everything that Red Bull's doing." First of all, if a corporation is thousands of people, chances are that one person applied [ __ ] nothing to making that brand special and what made that brand special probably started 50 years ago, right? So, it's like anytime I've expedited the hiring process to try to get the sexy corporation on the resume within the Bloom walls, I have made a massive mistake. I think the first question that I ask in every interview is name me three brands that you love following on digital and why you think they're crushing it. Like, I just need to make sure that that person gets what the [ __ ] is going on and what we're doing here. And then we just have a conversation about those three brands and it might be a brand that I've never heard of, but I'll quickly pull it up on social media and see kind of what they're up to. And if they can explain to me why they think they are winning, we can move on to the next question. And that's for anything from an executive assistant to on the brand team. >> I love that. That's great advice that I've never heard. Just what are you consuming? So, what are you consuming? >> Let's just chat CPG for 15 minutes. Let's see if you can hold this conversation. You get what's going on here. >> Beginning days and now, hunger or talent? What are you looking for? >> Beginning days, it was absolutely hunger. I definitely did not My my my motto in the beginning days was I don't want anyone brainwashed by brands that are moving at a sloth's pace, right? I wanted people who were right out of college that had no idea how what a normal pace was and, you know, had no idea about what what >> corporate America >> what corporate America was and I wanted entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs who just wanted to join a [ __ ] startup culture. And so, I was very anti corporate America brainwashed at the time. Now, I have an appreciation for people who have seen what perfection looks like, right? Now that we're What what has gotten us to 100 million is going to be different than what gets us to a 500 and what is going to be different than what gets us to a billion. And so, having people in in the team who have been there before seems to be incredibly valuable at this point because they just know what that looks like. And if I can find somebody who I can take from corporate America who is sick of it and wants to be part of this entrepreneurship journey before it's too late, that now for especially on a leadership level is like my my favorite hires at Echelon. >> Yeah, I do feel like you guys are in this explosive moment where there's still kind of meat left on the bone where somebody came on now from a a corporate side like you can still three, five, eight, 10X. >> Yeah, cuz like it's not like shipping to to retailers, I don't really need like a young entrepreneurship mind. I need someone who's done it before, right? Ordering millions of cans every single day, I need someone who's done it before. But in terms of like the branding and marketing team, I think and this goes back to like ageism and how I feel about experience overall in in digital and building a brand, it's like what worked five years ago is not going to work today. And so it's almost like your experience is irrelevant to me. And I think that a a 22-year-old who just loves digital is just as worthy as borderline leading a brand department depending on how many direct reports they have, leading a brand department as a 35-year-old is a seasoned vet. >> Yeah, that's the thesis of this podcast is getting people that are currently in the arena. I am a a student of history and I read tons of biographies and I love to learn about past entrepreneurs, but I still feel like outside of the fundamental, whether it be systems or finance or how to sell a company, those are going to be tried and true forever, but just like TikTok shop and AI, like Steve Steve Jobs Steve Jobs has nothing to tell me about TikTok shop. >> No, I want a 25-year-old for that department. And I would say the finance and supply chain roles I'm open to remote hires. I'm open to that being around the country. But if it's something that's like directly pointing towards our impact on culture, that needs to be in the Austin headquarters or LA office. >> Obviously, this influencer machine and army is all in-house. It seems like you're very much so in-house versus agency. Why? >> I would say in the early days of Bloom, we were bootstrapped and we were competing in an era of like CPG brands raising a ton of money. And so they would raise a ton of money, have the pressure to deploy that money, and they would just go sign the the hottest agency at the time with the biggest check because, you know, it was a check that I couldn't even fathom writing out of a bootstrap brand. So I realized early on like the only way we could compete with these brands raising all of this money and deploying the greatest agencies in the world is to build something bootstrapped in-house that's proprietary to us. And that has just worked for us since day one and we have continued to rinse and repeat that. I'm very anti-agency. If I hire an agency is for a temporary period of time to learn what they are doing and then build it better in-house. I mean, we were huge fans of hiring agencies for a short stint or hiring consultants for a short stint and either you know, in a consultant scenario potentially hiring them full-time if we think they're a killer. But I love test-driving things and learning with different systems, but it has to have a path to building it out in-house. >> How is it having a multi-city offices? You're the first person on that has that. >> I I've been traveling a little bit too much, especially now with our son. There have been points where I just wanted the best person no matter where they were in the country and I've regretted it only if there wasn't a path to them moving to Austin or at least moving to LA. Obviously, we had an established LA headquarters and then I moved with a lot of our leadership team to Austin. So in in this scenario, it just makes sense to have this LA office. Obviously, there's still like a lot of talent agencies and people that we do in-person business with in Los Angeles. So we have probably like 25 people here in LA and I'll get out here at least once a quarter, but I also make sure my main players in LA are in Austin for a couple days almost every single month. >> You said something key out there actually or just dealing with it. If somebody is remote, making sure you have 100% clarity and there's a path for that person to eventually be in person cuz then you're just wasting everybody's time. >> Yeah, like I I And and again, that's me being selfish because I won't thrive as the CEO, as the leader to that person if it's just through Zoom calls. So like we have some killers in New York that have made sense to be in New York and I also just want an excuse to go to New York once a month. But like we go we all go back and forth to New York and Austin together to at least have in-person time twice a month. >> Makes sense. >> Yeah, I could tell you're an in-person type guy. >> Yeah. To close up hiring and firing, what are some of the big lessons you've learned over the years? You get some great advice. The interview question I think is so simplistic in nature and it's amazing just like one of the brands you're consuming and why, who do you think's winning? I love that. What have you learned over the last I don't know, 7-8 years on just hiring and firing? Anything big that you can pass on to a younger generation? >> You need to hire entrepreneurs and to me an entrepreneur is somebody who truly just wants to better themself at all costs and they are they they treat themselves as their own company. So that person first and foremost wants responsibility and wants ownership. They would rather a harder job that they can own and put their name on than an easy clock in clock out responsibility. I don't want anyone who's a 9-5er clocking in clocking out and just wants the easier task. But it's also somebody who because they are obsessed with self-development and improving their skills, when the business grows and we've had to do this many times, when the business grows, if somebody's a leader in a department and they are no longer the right person to be a leader in that that department, but they are talented, they are excited about the idea of me bringing in somebody on top of them. And that has been I've been shocked at the feedback that I've been able to get from 99% of our team members when I say, "Hey, I need to put somebody on top of you who's been here before or I think is higher qualified for where we're going. And every time they go, "Please, I would love that. Like I can learn from them." >> Those are killers that say that. They have the They have the growth mindset, man. They have the growth mindset and >> 100% and they just want they treat themselves as a company and they know that's what's best for themselves and they want what's the best for Bloom. >> I love that. >> Yeah, curious and growth mindset people that are on their own time. >> Which is crazy cuz like you would think like the average human ego would say like, "I just want to show on LinkedIn that I lead this department." Right? >> I don't think I don't think we live in that world anymore. Skills economy. >> Yeah. >> LinkedIn LinkedIn's done. Looking back, what's the one thing you've kind of learned about yourself as a leader in the last year, let's just say. >> Everybody who directly reports to me at this point at Bloom and in the last couple years is better than me at that vertical, which in turn means that I am the worst person on the leadership team at any at any person's specific vertical, right? So, generally I am not the right person to make a decision on a specific topic. I have somebody who's better than me at that specific topic. My job at the as the leader is to make sure they are in an environment where they can thrive. So, I'm more than happy to make sure we have a beautiful catered lunch. It can get as simple as that. I'm more than happy to make sure like I have a personal therapy session with that person to make sure they feel heard and that communication is healthy and there's no drama within the team, which is very rare at Bloom. So, just making sure that I am letting the top-tier talent that we've been able to acquire thrive is my job now as the CEO. It is not necessarily impacting small decisions of the day-to-day. >> It's a good answer. >> Yeah, okay. No, we got that. >> You weren't thinking that like 2 years ago. >> No, no. I used to Well, I probably was one of the best people on the entire team, right? Because I was only able to hire people in the beginning who were worse than me. >> Yeah. >> And so, I was just able to delegate most of my tasks to that person to free up some of my mind share. But, at this point it's like everyone on the leadership team is truly better than me at their vertical. Like, way better. >> Yeah. I feel like hiring the right people, setting the vision, making sure the lights are on. That's your job. All right. Last little thing before we get into quick strike. You told me this yesterday. This [ __ ] was mind-blowing. What happened with the cartel? What hap- What happened What What happened on a on Christmas Day in 2022? Give us Give us the whole entire story. >> So, I mentioned I mentioned not going to Christmas for like 4 or 5 years. And then the first year that we could go back for Christmas beautiful moment, right? Like, Mari and I are with our family. It's Christmas Day. This might have been like one of the first real LaVecchia Christmases that my wife could enjoy. And like, my Italian Christmas is [ __ ] hysterical. Like, there's more ricotta than there is water on the table. And so So, you know, I get a call. We're halfway through Christmas that four 18-wheelers full of greens product This is still when we were a bootstrap brand. We had no strategic partners. Like, this was all going to fall on me. Four 18-wheelers of greens product were headed to our number one retailer or what was going to be our number one retailer for a January 1st launch. And so, that means that we now had four days to figure that out. It's supposed to be at the stores in four days. And we had no idea where three and a half million dollars worth of product were sitting. And that was our cost, which was an astronomical amount of money for me at the time. I think we were able to locate one of the trucks, which was great. We recovered that product. But, there were still three trucks out into the out into the wilderness, out into the dark abyss. And we see a random third-party seller pop up on Amazon 2 days later. And my head of Amazon is a [ __ ] savage. Orders the product and realizes, "Yeah, this was the product that was that was specifically made for that retailer. We know that this is not supposed to be sold on Amazon or anywhere else. This is the stolen goods." We get them kicked off of Amazon. Shout out to Amazon for handling this with us. It pops up the next day. It's under a person's name. It was like Raul something. And >> Damn, Raul's a gangster. He put his real name? >> He put it He cuz he cuz his company got kicked off, he probably didn't think anything of it. So, he just started selling it under his real name. With an address. The address is 10 miles from our headquarters in Los Angeles. My head of Amazon, Alex, in his his bright red C63 AMG Mercedes drives over to this this warehouse, which is just an opened chain-link fence block, you know, around the perimeter. No ceiling on top, just tarp on top of product. And he's looking through the fence, and he sees Clorox bottles, you know, Ninja blenders, protein powders from Organe, Bloom Green, all this clearly stolen CPG products that he's selling on Amazon. And this [ __ ] psycho climbs the fence with his iPhone and starts filming all of these products. And he's going and he's like, you know, reporting back. >> Your guy's there? >> My guy. And I didn't even ask him to go, by the way. I didn't ask him to go. I actually like probably realized this once he had already once I'll tell you once I realized. So, >> Doesn't sound safe. >> So, he's leaving the warehouse, and he's sitting in his car, and this badass pickup truck, as he explains it, pulls up to behind him with the license plate Raul. And comes up to the window and goes, "Who the [ __ ] are you?" And my head of Amazon goes, "I'm the guy you just stole our [ __ ] from." And like >> skurts off in his AMG. This is like so funny if you know who I'm talking to. >> you Did you go Did you go strapped to this? Is he putting on like a bulletproof vest or something? This is This is risky. >> This is insanely risky. >> Yeah. >> And by the way, we end up looking at this guy's address on Google Maps, and it was like a $4 million house in Orange County. There's like a Porsche in the driveway, a beautiful And this guy had been running this operation for a minute. We look up his [ __ ] fugitive record, and he had been to jail many times for like, you know, violent assault, like the whole deal. And he gets into a car chase with this guy, ends up escaping, shouts to the AMGs, and and gets back to the headquarters and is just and just we had just uncovered like, you know, this $3 million of product that had >> Like a massive ring. This is like a massive >> a massive ring. A massive ring. To be completely transparent, the California law enforcement was incredibly unhelpful with this situation. In fact, like >> Not surprising. >> Did not even respond to our calls, ended up needing to get, you know, national FBI involved. >> you do? You call 911 and then you >> Yeah, you just keep on calling until you like meet a guy who knows someone at the FBI and that's who ends up helping you. And of course, this ended up taking months. So, he was able to like clean up half of the operation by the time we were able to have a staying. But anyway, dude, this was like this is just like sums up like the one chance we could finally go back to the holidays with the family. Like there's a massive cartel operation, you know, abusing our Amazon. >> It's all on you, bro. All the responsibility's on you. Drop of a hat. What happened with the retailer? >> They >> They should understand that. Come on, baby. >> Dude, they should, but they shouldn't, right? Like we should have made >> Valid. They should >> Yeah, like I I'm really objective with that stuff. And so, yeah, now we always overproduce. And they were super [ __ ] pissed. >> Damn. I don't even know what to say to that. >> This is a This is a very real thing. This is why third-party sellers, especially on consumables on e-commerce channels, is like a super high-risk thing. So, you don't know where it necessarily came, which is why like we're very proud now to own the seller relationships with these businesses. Like our energy drink, we sell directly to Amazon and they sell it on Amazon. And so, we own that relationship. >> No middleman. Love it. I'm going to fire away tons and tons of questions here with Quick Strike. Brace yourself. Your son, 3 months old, Kai. What's the uh thing about fatherhood that caught you off guard? >> I I've never felt like there's not enough time in the day more than there is right now. I'm trying to chip away at just my sleep hours and hopefully give those hours to Kai. But it's been incredible, man, and it's completely changed how I think about everything that I'm building and working on. I I I realized quickly that what I am going to pass down to him the the any type of like monetary pass down will almost serve him no justice and potentially be a disservice to him. And the greatest thing that I can try to do is just one lead by example and be the man that he is memories seeing on how to be a man, but the the wisdom and lessons that I can make sure he experiences in his life are like the greatest inheritance that I can ever ever build. So, prior to having a son, like I was obsessed with the idea of like leaving this massive trust to my offspring and like that's how I'll make sure we're generation proof. And it's like [ __ ] that. All these rich kids are are [ __ ] So, it's like I got [laughter] I got to make sure all I pass down is is is wisdom and lessons and an example. >> Love it. Most expensive thing you own that you actually use every day. >> [laughter] >> That you use every day. >> Yeah, every day. I mean, my house is [ __ ] I think I I think my I have a Mercedes that's like a little it's probably 750,000 that I drive at least every week. Yeah. >> Life hacks. >> Yeah. >> That's [laughter] 750? >> Yeah. But dude, I bought it for less and it's been going it's been going crazy on the market, but I'm an [ __ ] and I modified the hell out of it. So, I don't know if that ruined the value, but I But what's crazy is like the value was like a million before it hit 5,000 mi on the odometer. And the other day on my way to work, I passed 5,000 mi. And I was like, "Wow, that was a $100,000 drive to work." >> I just had a lot of fun negotiating for for my car lease right now. Do you know about like the the lease swapping? Do you know about that game? Are you on >> Like if you're a year in and you can just like upgrade your car. >> No, my buddy told me about this. I'm done with the traditional leases. Like you could just go on. Someone could have 15 months left and just hit him with like a 50% off lowball. They're going to come back in a month later and you just >> Cuz they get the commission for those transactions. >> No, no, I'm talking about you're going to the end user. Like you have a car and there's 18 months left on your lease and I just go to you and it's $1,000 a month and you say hey $500 let me take over the rest 500 a month. >> Wow. >> Yeah, I was thought I was flexing cuz I had this whole like massive negotiation with Mercedes and I absolutely loved it. And my friend's like yo, you're sleeping. Cuz he's had like 15 cars the last 5 years. >> Yeah. >> I'm like what is this racket that you're running? Yeah. He just keeps getting like new BMWs and stuff. >> Dude, [ __ ] yeah. I think you know, going back to like the monetary [ __ ] First of all, entrepreneurship is worth it. Like money is freedom. There is no doubt about it. Like you are going to be able to do all of the things that everyone said that you can't do. Which is kind of like sums up my whole life. It's like I [ __ ] hate hated when someone would tell me no. If I'm at a restaurant and I'm ordering, I mean Leo can vouch for this. If I'm at a restaurant and I'm ordering all of the dishes that I want, which is generally several dishes. >> [laughter] >> And the waiter's like you've ordered enough. And I'll I'll I'll want to leave the restaurant. I won't but like that will that will like properly trigger me. I hate when someone tells me no or that I've done enough or that like that's excessive. >> You've done enough to be able to be a be excessive. [laughter] >> And so, I think money being freedom has been the you know, the greatest unlock that it is but like you know, the the best memories that I have with my wife with travel are not any five star hotel. It's like literally us in a camper van. And so, the reality is is the funnest things in life are like borderline national parks. Like our [ __ ] free. And money's fun and awesome but the biggest unlock is the freedom that it gives you and entrepreneurship is very much worth that goal. The freedom. >> I agree. What's your bench max? >> Three 380 on a good day based off of a test I did a couple weeks ago. On a good day. >> to I tore this place >> to pop up some shreddy on that. This guy does crazy crazy pull-ups with the [ __ ] >> I'm pretty nice on pull-ups but I see you're doing like 40 lb weights. >> I Dude, I I love the weighted pull-up. I have >> What's your max without no weights? >> On a on a good day I can get 25 real pull-ups. Like good pull-ups. >> I'm high teens. >> Yeah, you got me. >> Dude, breaking 20 was hard. >> Breaking 20 was hard. I would say Dude, fitness has been like everything for me. Like it is just like just cuz of the routine and discipline that you need to have like in your It's 24/7. >> Yeah. >> Right? So, it's like you need It's not just the workout, it's the meals you get in, it's the recovery you get after. So, it's like me bringing those lessons over to entrepreneurship, I think has been huge for my entrepreneurship. And it's like Dude, I was so young starting this journey that I couldn't walk in as some like ungroomed fat 25-year-old. Why would anyone take me seriously? I didn't even have like a product that was really scaling yet. So, it's like if I wanted to enter a room and demand respect, I had to at least beat that more successful person in fitness and in health and have something over them. Right? So, I think it got me a long way in terms of like the the initial reaction that people would give me when I would enter a room. And it's it's, you know, I don't have as much time for it anymore or as as much as I did, but it's still a huge passion of mine. >> You're doing okay here? >> Yeah, I'm not a huge I like some of the stuff Hermosi. >> His advice to all the younger people is just get jacked first. And I wish I would have started earlier to have better muscle muscle memory cuz I had to put in like a long a long time in like my early 30s to just get a base. So, starting early is definitely worth it. >> Dude, getting jacked as your first goal, it doesn't take that long and I think that's great advice. I'm also going back to like Pride has ruined the greatest men I know. Science is [ __ ] awesome these days. And there's a lot of guys that are afraid to hop on TRT, or afraid to hop on the peptides, or afraid to use the best supplements. And it's like these things are [ __ ] awesome now. Like I want to feel so [ __ ] good every day. And science is allowing that. It's been It's been incredible. >> What's the secret sauce? Give us the secret. Peptide? >> Dude, I run my TRT, as you know, anyone else can. I had to come off to have the baby, which was miserable. But I love love my TRT. And then dude, I'll take BP BPC 157, mod C, I'll take TA1 for my immune system. Sometimes it kind of overreacts to some foods. I don't know. I'll I'll dabble with whatever is kind of like, you know, my goals at the time, but I'm always changing them up. I don't like run the same thing forever. >> Personal question for me. I was thinking about potentially going like a a little microdose on test, but then I'm going to have to around the corner I'm going to have babies. >> Freeze that [ __ ] >> Freeze first and then just rock with test. >> freeze sperm or my wife and I ended up needing to IVF, which is really cool cuz now we have like more embryos frozen that are already fertilized. But what we did when our baby was born was we took her placenta and I ran it out of the hospital to my executive assistant in the parking lot at 2:00 a.m. in the morning and she gave it to a courier who drove it to Houston and brought it to like this stem cell exosome lab and now we have a creofreezer which also has my sperm just in case. But a creofreezer full of like top-tier DNA one-to-one match stem cells and exosomes that we've been able to get like IV drips, I'll like put it in my hair to make sure my hair is not falling out. Like I'll I'll vape that [ __ ] Like it's it's pretty crazy, bro. Yeah, the stem cells are cool. >> How bad was the come down on having to get off test to do that? And what what was that window and could you like fully not function? Like what was it like? This is for the guys out there. This is some This is some free game. >> It was 8 to 12 months and the general protocol is you come off for me for us to have a baby, right? I was able to get the sperm back probably in 4 to 6 months at a quality level. And by the way, like when you're on a sperm like you're still like you're still ejaculating. You know what I mean? Like so you don't know if you don't have sperm. It's not like you're just like dry busting. >> [laughter] >> I just took a sperm test. This company called Fellow. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've done [ __ ] six Shout out Fellow, baby. It's a good one. Which you know, you hilarious, you know, transactional jerk off that you get to go experience, but you you it took probably 4 to 6 months to get the quality sperm back and that cuz I had zero, right? When I was running test. >> Yeah. >> And then the protocol that's generally given to people is cheap and it's easy and it works. It's HCG and Clomid. That's what every doctor gives you. I was able to get kind of this new more expensive trial thing called RFSH. And then I paired that with the HCG. I didn't do Clomid. And do my test was still like 750. Like my test was fine. It felt like more of a 750 strong. Yeah, it felt like more of a Now I'm like, you know, over 1500. But >> You serious? >> Yeah, I keep it high, bro. >> Damn. >> it high. But the the the volatility was definitely there. Like didn't feel like I was taking testosterone, but like I didn't feel like total dog [ __ ] The volatility was definitely >> Yeah, so check out RFSH. I think that's what it's called. >> What's up, guys? If you guys got this far in the episode, I would assume that you enjoyed it. If you got any value, it would mean the world if you hit the subscribe button, give it a like, post a comment, [music] tell a friend. We could keep going bigger, bigger guests, bigger locations, more value. See you in the next episode.