0:11 Hi everybody. I'm super happy to bring 0:12 you all the next episode of Common 0:14 Ground and our guest this time is Nick 0:17 Freitas who is part of Virginia 0:18 legislature and has had an admirable 0:22 social media policy. I've seen his stuff 0:24 everywhere and my friend Dave Hamilton 0:27 as well is back here. 0:29 Great to have you Nick. 0:30 Oh, great great to be on. Very good to 0:32 meet both of you. Great to meet you too 0:34 as well. 0:35 We were just talking a little bit before 0:37 the show, but 0:39 what do you see as the biggest cultural 0:41 things that are destroying America? 0:43 Because if you're running for the 0:45 legislature and if you have an eye in 0:47 politics, I can imagine that 0:50 there are things that make you want to 0:51 come up and actually 0:53 do there and go to all the effort of 0:55 going into politics. 0:58 So, yeah, it it was funny. I got asked 1:00 this question a while back and and some 1:01 the way somebody worded it to me was 1:02 like, "Nick, how do you deconstruct a 1:04 nation?" 1:05 Um because my my background was Army 1:08 Special Forces. I was a Green Beret. We 1:09 did uh 1:11 we did unconventional warfare and 1:13 counterinsurgency. 1:14 And what that means is that we basically 1:16 operated on both sides of the same coin. 1:19 Um we were either working with the 1:21 government to put down an insurgency or 1:23 we were working with the insurgents to 1:24 put down the government. 1:26 And it kind of gave us an interesting 1:28 perspective cuz some of the training we 1:30 went through 1:31 uh dealt with things like propaganda, 1:33 dealt with things 1:35 like operations and working by, through, 1:36 and with the local population and 1:39 we read a lot of literature from a 1:41 variety of different sources on on 1:44 uh work that ostensibly was around kind 1:46 of the the US military's mission that 1:47 we'd been given, but there was a lot of 1:49 I would say philosophical implications 1:51 um behind behind what we did and how we 1:54 did it. 1:55 And the interesting thing to me is um I 1:58 I I use this term because I think it 2:00 properly um explains what we're going on 2:02 on some level and that's an identity 2:04 crisis. 2:05 And we're we're seeing that with a lot 2:07 of people on a very individual level, uh 2:09 but I think it's it's kind of worked 2:11 itself into, you know, the national 2:13 psyche, if you will, this idea that 2:15 we're just not really sure I I I would 2:17 say that 2:18 20 years ago 2:20 um all of us 2:22 generally, like the popular opinion 2:24 within society was, "Hey, we're not 2:26 perfect as a country. We've made 2:27 mistakes. Every country has, but if you 2:30 if you look at the founding philosophy 2:32 in the Declaration of Independence, if 2:33 you look at the United States 2:34 Constitution, if you look at the 2:36 founders, 2:37 so much good stuff in there and and, you 2:39 know, hey look, we can we can 2:40 acknowledge mistakes, but 2:42 overall, the United States has been a 2:45 kind of a force for good in the world. 2:48 And the reason why 2:50 is because we believe in certain 2:52 fundamental principles about 2:55 individual liberty, property rights, 2:57 representative government, um and the 2:59 idea that you you have certain rights 3:02 that are given to you by God, or some 3:04 people would say by natural law. 3:06 And and you have a right to exercise 3:08 those, and government's job is to come 3:09 alongside and protect those. 3:11 And um 3:13 and you shouldn't impose your will on 3:14 other people, right? You should live 3:15 your life the way you want, provided 3:17 you're not infringing on the rights of 3:18 other people to do the same. 3:20 And and those were And again, you had 3:21 you had all kinds of people that could 3:23 look at that core philosophy and say, 3:25 "Yeah, I generally agree with that, but 3:28 right?" And and it was some something of 3:30 a peaceful discourse among um 3:33 you know, maybe sometimes your side was 3:34 in control, and you had the loyal 3:36 opposition, and maybe sometimes you were 3:37 the loyal opposition, but we were always 3:39 the loyal opposition. And I feel like 3:41 more and more now we're getting to a 3:43 point where that is just that is not the 3:44 case. We're we're running into this 3:46 problem where people have fundamentally 3:49 different views, not only of the future, 3:52 but of the past and the present, and it 3:55 it's making effective communication a 3:57 lot of ways, I think, impossible. 3:59 Yeah. If I may, Nick, you know, the 4:01 argument was made that there was a 4:02 culture war for many years, and now we 4:05 we refer to it as the reality war, 4:06 because people see the world in such 4:08 completely different ways 4:10 that they can't They don't even have 4:11 common language, they don't have common 4:13 experience, they don't have common 4:14 beliefs. They They truly look back at 4:16 history and go, "Oh, that didn't happen 4:17 that way. It It happened this way." And 4:20 you don't have the same frame of 4:21 reference. My father served and every 4:24 male in my family back to Alexander 4:25 Hamilton served, except for me and my 4:27 brother. So, I have to say thank you for 4:28 your service. I'm one of those guys who 4:30 didn't. So, I want to say thank you for 4:32 your service. And my dad did, I think, 4:34 three tours in 'Nam, and he was there at 4:35 the beginning of the war, before the war 4:37 as an adviser. He was He was special 4:39 forces like you. 4:40 And then was with the CIA, was with Air 4:41 America, and then with the CIA 4:43 afterwards, right? So, he got to see the 4:45 big before the the beginning of the war 4:46 and all the way after in the aftermath, 4:48 etc., right? 4:49 And and 4:51 what's interesting is the 4:53 perception, our our collective memory is 4:56 that we should have been there. We 4:57 invaded. We were the bullies, etc., as 5:00 opposed to, "Oh, no, there was a civil 5:02 war. The north was trying to invade the 5:03 south. We tried to protect the country 5:05 being invaded." And mostly for our own 5:07 purposes, we're concerned about 5:09 communism spreading across the world, 5:10 the domino effect, right? 5:11 Yeah. 5:12 But that's not the way that popular 5:13 culture views it. Oh, not at all. 5:15 today. Not at all today. And you know, 5:17 we were bad, they were good, 5:19 etc. And that example replicates itself 5:22 over and over and over again in our 5:24 cultural consciousness about how things 5:26 played out. 5:28 I and the the the group that I'm a part 5:29 of, America's Future Series that I 5:31 founded, we believe that America, with 5:32 all of its warts, is the greatest 5:33 country that ever existed. But it has 5:35 warts. And if you want to talk about 5:36 warts, great. 5:38 But you you we've got to stop tearing 5:40 each other apart, and that's what all 5:41 That's all it seems that we do, is we 5:42 tear each other apart as part of of 5:45 identity. And there's a deep-seated 5:46 emotional need on the behalf of many 5:49 people to be part of what we jokingly 5:51 call Roger calls and I call the cool 5:52 kids club. 5:54 And you know, we're the hip ones, we get 5:56 it, you don't, you're stupid, you 5:58 redneck, whatever, you know, this kind 6:00 of stuff, right? 6:01 And we've become very very tribal. And I 6:03 believe that tribalism and partisanship 6:04 is the single existential threat. And if 6:06 we can't speak the same language and if 6:08 we don't have the same fundamental views 6:10 of the world and we don't have to use 6:11 the same language, etc. 6:14 we're going to continue to bifurcate. 6:16 We're going to continue to fall apart. 6:17 And I and I truly do worry. And Roger 6:19 talks about this all the time about the 6:21 potential of a civil war. 6:23 of this 6:25 metastasizing into some form of civil 6:26 war. You as someone who has dealt with 6:29 kinetic warfare 6:31 and seen insurgencies, 6:33 counterinsurgencies, this sort of stuff. 6:36 How how real is that in your mind? Is 6:38 that really a possibility? I I think so. 6:42 We actually did on on May on our podcast 6:44 making the argument, we did a whole 6:45 episode which one of my co-host 6:46 Christian Hines, 6:48 we both watched What If Alt-Right and 6:50 and he like sends me this text, right? 6:52 He was like, "Nick, you've got to watch 6:54 you've got to watch this What If 6:55 Alt-Right on the coming right-wing 6:57 backlash." 6:58 And we I mean we loved it. We all 6:59 watched it. We did a whole episode kind 7:01 of like as a as a react video to it. And 7:03 and what I would say is I I think a lot 7:05 of things that Roger talked about in 7:06 that kind of underlies some of the 7:09 fundamental problems. Now, 7:10 I like to say I'm I'm an eternal 7:12 optimist in in you know, some sense 7:15 where I I always hold out hope. Like I 7:16 am not a black pilled sort of guy. 7:19 By the same token, I'm a student of 7:21 history. 7:23 And and I I feel like there's a 7:24 difference between being black pilled 7:26 and being ignorant of the fact that 7:29 there are certain things that once you 7:30 put these things in place and they start 7:32 to develop and they start to 7:33 metastasize, which might be the best way 7:35 to describe it. 7:36 There are certain inevitable conclusions 7:38 that that follow from that. And if you 7:39 think that oh well, that would never 7:41 happen now. 7:43 I like to remind people that the the 7:45 worst atrocities in human history took 7:47 place after the enlightenment. So, 7:50 whenever whenever we think we've we've 7:52 outgrown, you know, God or or morality 7:55 or whatever. 7:55 humans. 7:56 Oh my gosh, we we are still reminded 7:58 that there is an incredible amount of of 8:00 evil that exists within us and it really 8:02 becomes a question of of using of 8:04 recognizing the capacity for that and 8:06 then disciplining ourselves to prevent 8:08 it from happening, but 8:10 I I think that whenever you look at a 8:12 society 8:14 and you start to ask the real question 8:15 of you know, it is civil war, like 8:17 actual violent civil war possible? I 8:20 think there's a there's a few conditions 8:22 that have to be met and we we've talked 8:23 about this a little bit on the whole 8:24 concept of national divorce. I I think 8:27 you you have to have two significant 8:30 groups within a country that have 8:31 diametrically opposed views with respect 8:33 to both the past and the future that we 8:35 want. 8:37 You you have to have um I I think a a 8:40 sort of geographical sorting. 8:43 Um so, if if everyone's kind of 8:45 intermixed and they're all living 8:46 together, it becomes a lot harder to to 8:48 fight your neighbor. Yeah, exactly. But, 8:50 when you start to have more geographical 8:52 self-sorting, that that contributes to 8:54 it. That's another factor. The third 8:56 factor that we kind of identified is 8:57 when one group one of those groups 9:01 and to use the United States as an 9:02 example, when one group gets um 9:04 overwhelming federal power, which in 9:07 this case would be controlling the 9:08 house, controlling the Senate, 9:09 controlling the presidency and and I 9:11 think we use like stacking the court, 9:13 right? Having the having control of the 9:14 states. 9:14 states, yeah. Yeah. Um 9:17 where now you can't even geographically 9:19 self-sort based off of like, okay, I get 9:22 it. Massachusetts wants to do this, but 9:23 I don't, so I'm going to go move to 9:25 Wyoming. Well, now you can't. Now now 9:28 one group, which will say represents 52% 9:31 of the population can now from a federal 9:33 level impose its will 9:35 dictate the lives on 48% and there's no 9:37 escape. When you get to those 9:39 on that. You know, he did a thing saying 9:41 great things that might save us is that 9:43 America's big enough to have internal 9:44 migration. 9:44 Mhm. But what you're talking about 9:46 negates that. It does. 9:47 Negates the effort Yeah, that's Well, 9:49 and I have the I have the Go ahead, Red 9:51 Jacket. Sorry. 9:51 Oh, those points are all correct and I'd 9:53 throw in economic hardship on top of 9:54 that. And the point you made is really 9:57 accurate because if you look at previous 9:59 civil wars, what happens is a single 10:01 faction gains control of the government 10:03 and pushes a bill that the rest of 10:05 population isn't willing to take. And so 10:07 in the French Revolution, it was a break 10:09 It's often about budgets, actually, and 10:11 that's one of the biggest themes. So, 10:13 next time we have to approve the debt 10:16 ceiling, I hope that's not it. 10:18 But uh 10:20 with 10:21 uh Well, it's when we default on our 10:23 debt. 10:23 Yeah, I mean because 10:25 reality comes out through money and you 10:27 can see what someone's priorities based 10:28 are what they spend their money on. And 10:31 our budget is schizophrenic. We want to 10:33 spend it on everything. Um Yeah. and 10:37 the thing that worries me is that let's 10:40 say at this next election, whatever side 10:42 loses the election, I would consider the 10:44 best proxy to have a revolution. And 10:47 it's 10:48 because the thing is 10:50 as you said, because the centralized 10:52 government is pushing its policies 10:53 across the entire country, 10:56 people in red or blue states would not 10:58 want to accept 4 years of the other 11:01 candidate in charge. 11:04 I I think it depends on I mean this this 11:06 is So, I have the um 11:08 I have the privilege of actually 11:09 representing James Madison's district in 11:11 the House of Delegates. 11:13 And And And yeah, I take I I always joke 11:15 with my constituents. I'm like, "Yeah, 11:16 you guys started with James Madison and 11:18 now it now it's me. Sorry." 11:20 Who has Patrick Henry's district? 11:22 Oh gosh, I think that's Buddy Fowler has 11:24 Patrick Henry's district. 11:25 Southwest Virginia. 11:27 Yeah. The um 11:29 But we looked at it and you know, 11:30 Madison talked about this whole idea of 11:32 like why do why do Republics fail once 11:34 they get past a certain size and 11:35 inevitably was that idea of 11:38 well, because you have a centralization 11:39 of power and all of a sudden becomes 11:40 disconnected with with different areas 11:43 of of the Republic and and it can no 11:45 longer effectively represent it or 11:46 govern it. And and I think that's right. 11:48 I I think that you have once you have 11:50 those conditions in place, the only 11:51 question that is what's the catalyst? 11:53 Yeah. And you know, again, my my co-host 11:55 Christian Hines, he likes to say it's 11:56 the sovereign debt crisis. It's it's at 11:58 that point where the federal government 12:00 starts to impose something at the 12:02 federal level that red states are not 12:04 willing to accept. And then you have 12:06 this 12:06 say let's say California collapses 12:09 economically. Let's say they're defaults 12:10 and you had Detroit default and you 12:12 we've had these examples before, right? 12:14 But an entire state like that does and 12:16 then very much like Greece having to be 12:17 bailed out by Germany. Mhm. Um Okay and 12:22 the you know, Greece is lucky that 12:23 Germany stepped up, right? 12:26 My uh Well, but you you have you have a 12:28 case like you have a case like that 12:29 where they they pick some sort of 12:31 legislation, right? Some sort of point 12:32 that like red states will not tolerate 12:35 that to What would it probably be taking 12:37 people's guns? Yeah, that that would be 12:39 a perfect example. 12:39 things, abortion, guns, funding, um but 12:44 if you look at regional municipal 12:47 uh budgets, 12:49 so many important cities around the 12:50 country are on the brink of complete 12:52 financial collapse. And what happens 12:55 when Los Angeles or San Francisco or 12:58 Miami run out of money? And this is I'm 13:02 from Pennsylvania and this is a 13:03 permanent problem in Pennsylvania 13:04 politics where the city of Philadelphia 13:07 is permanently broke and then the 13:10 the conservative legislature based out 13:12 of central Pennsylvania is constantly 13:14 turning the screws because they know any 13:16 money they give to Philadelphia will be 13:17 immediately wasted on corruption. 13:19 Um 13:19 Yeah. 13:22 And so I could see something like that, 13:24 but the reality is I don't know and no 13:26 one else does. It's just you know 13:29 there's a position for something bad to 13:31 happen. I think it could be one of any 13:32 10 things. 13:34 So So if I summarize this in my Forrest 13:36 Gump way, I think Nick, you you are 13:38 saying that yeah, if the conditions are 13:40 right, it's happened a thousand times. 13:41 And just because America hasn't 13:43 experienced it, and we've been lucky, 13:45 we've been blessed, we haven't 13:46 experienced 13:46 Well, we have. Except except in 1865, 13:49 right? 13:50 But it's been that long. In our living 13:52 memory, none of us have experienced 13:53 that. Whereas all the rest of the banana 13:54 republics have it every other year. You 13:56 know, they call it Tuesday. Yeah. Um 13:58 Well, you see what's going on in West 13:59 Africa right now, and what they they 14:01 affectionately call the the coup belt. 14:03 Uh-huh. And and it's just in insane. 14:05 Now, again, I I think I think there's a 14:07 lot of resiliency built into the 14:09 American system. Um and I think a lot of 14:11 that is is due to, you know, Madison and 14:14 and others really insist and the 14:16 anti-federalists, honestly, really 14:17 insisting on a federal a strong 14:19 federalist system, which allows for that 14:22 internal migration, which allows for, 14:24 you know, um some some calm there. But 14:27 you you run into an issue and and we the 14:29 first time we experienced this it was 14:30 asking which actually the probably the 14:32 Whiskey Rebellion. 14:34 And that's where you saw people like 14:35 Madison and Jefferson writing things 14:37 like the Virginia and Kentucky 14:38 resolutions, where they were trying to 14:40 they were trying to determine what what 14:41 is this relationship between the federal 14:43 government and the state government when 14:45 the states truly believe that the 14:46 federal government has overstepped its 14:48 constitutional authority. 14:49 And they came up the com- the the 14:51 concept of nullification 14:53 and interposition. And nullification is 14:56 when a state says, "Okay, fine, federal 14:57 government, you passed that law, but 14:59 we're not going along with it." And 15:00 interposition is 15:02 "Okay, federal government, you you 15:03 passed that law, and if you try to 15:05 enforce it in this state, we will use 15:07 state assets to prevent you from doing 15:09 so." 15:10 Well, 15:10 And on a border issue in Texas, for 15:12 example. 15:12 Yes, perfect example. An- another great 15:15 example One of the earliest examples of 15:17 because a lot of people look at states' 15:18 rights and they automatically think kind 15:20 of the worst parts of Jim Crow and in 15:22 opposing the civil rights movement, but 15:24 if if you actually look at um concepts 15:27 of nullification early on, Wisconsin, 15:31 when the federal government passed the 15:32 runaway slave act, and now people had to 15:34 flee not only to the north, they had to 15:36 flee to Canada 15:37 to get away, there was actually a case 15:39 in Wisconsin where a local sheriff 15:42 jailed a federal marshal 15:45 and prevented him from being able to 15:46 execute his his duties because he said, 15:48 "No, we're we're not allowing you to 15:50 execute this in Wisconsin. We think it's 15:52 a horrible violation." 15:53 And that's the sort of situation where 15:55 you could see like the ATF showing up 15:58 and the Texas Rangers showing up, and 16:00 who blinks? Right? That has been 16:02 discussed 16:03 pretty significantly with the idea being 16:05 if you are not enforcing 16:07 you know, immigration law, etc. If 16:08 you're actively encouraging people to 16:10 come to the state, and we can get an 16:11 entire thing on that, but let's say 16:12 you're doing that, you're giving them 16:15 I don't know, phones and money and 16:16 lawyers and bussing them, then you're 16:18 aiding and abetting the breaking of the 16:20 law. 16:20 Yeah. And should those officials being 16:23 do that, should they be arrested? Yeah. 16:25 Well, and that that's the thing I think 16:26 we need to understand is that once the 16:28 conditions are met, it doesn't actually 16:30 take a pretty major catalyst to set 16:32 things off. I mean, you look at World 16:33 War I. Right? 16:34 Right, who I mean, honestly, I don't 16:36 mean this I don't mean this like to be 16:38 harsh, but nobody really cared about 16:41 Archduke Ferdinand, right? Nobody really 16:43 cared about the Archduke. 16:45 It 16:46 it was an excuse for a for a bunch of 16:48 countries that have been loaded up and 16:49 been waiting for this who all knew it 16:50 was going to happen, and then all of a 16:51 sudden that was the catalyst. And that's 16:53 the perfect example. Russia said when 16:54 they were given when when Serbia was 16:56 given 10 16:57 demands, yeah, they said, "Just pick one 16:59 and don't go with it." 17:00 Yeah. And and say, "We'll do all the 17:02 other nine, but not that. You'll look 17:03 good, and when they attack you, we'll 17:05 protect you." That's exactly what the 17:06 Russians To your point, it was a 17:07 designed plan. 17:09 Yeah. This is something I've rarely 17:10 talked about on my YouTube channel, but 17:13 political decentralization is actually 17:15 my biggest political issue, and the 17:16 reason I stand for that is because we're 17:19 at a point now where we have god-like 17:21 technology and it's going to get crazier 17:23 over time. And I don't want a national 17:27 government system where everyone has to 17:28 take a certain genetic edit. And I think 17:32 the only way 17:34 that you can I mean this might sound 17:36 overly dramatic. The only way to survive 17:39 with technology that powerful is through 17:40 political decentralization so a single 17:43 mistake doesn't destroy the population. 17:45 Because you look at China, they have 17:46 these giant um security systems. They 17:50 have stem cell research and a single bad 17:53 decision by the Chinese Communist Party 17:55 could wipe out or destroy a nation of 17:57 1.5 billion people. 18:00 Well and so the 18:00 you look at you look at decisions they 18:02 made before they have this technological 18:03 capacity. I mean they they are right 18:05 because of their one-child policy they 18:07 have 30 million more men than they do 18:10 women and Xi Jinping is smart enough to 18:12 understand that when you have a country 18:14 with 30 million men that can't find 18:16 wives, that's a problem. Do you think 18:18 China is going to do this? 18:19 this is something that Rod Dreher talks 18:20 about on his shows etc. We you talk 18:22 about the exact exactly. 18:24 Um and they it's only they were all 18:26 ready a command and control very 18:27 totalitarian controlling society with a 18:30 bunch of rule followers who went along 18:32 where consistency was important etc. And 18:33 now I have the ability to monitor your 18:35 every move and give you a social credit 18:37 score and not give you an apartment if 18:39 you don't think the right way. 18:41 Yeah. Yeah, well I don't really care if 18:43 they continue to do that in China. I 18:44 really don't. I'm sad for them and I 18:46 think that's horrible but uh my worry 18:48 about um that it happen it's about it 18:50 happening here and that there seems to 18:52 be a creep towards that. Let me ask you 18:53 this one question. We've had some guests 18:55 on and there seem to be two schools of 18:56 thought. One is that there is a cabal, 18:59 there's an organized group out there 19:01 that is trying to you know the the 19:03 Illuminati types and they're actively 19:05 waking they wake up every morning like 19:06 thinking in the brain trying to figure 19:08 out how to take over the world etc. And 19:11 and the other is that it's more of a 19:12 systemic thing. Like a school of fish, 19:14 like a herd of cow whatever 19:18 herd flocks of geese, they all just sort 19:19 of seem to move in concert together sort 19:22 of instinctively cuz they're wired that 19:24 way. My sense is that both are true. 19:26 I do believe that there are people that 19:27 wake up every morning like Pinky and the 19:29 Brain and go, "What are we going to do 19:30 today, Pinky? We're going to you know I 19:31 just there's still 19:33 like I know from personal experience. 19:36 Yeah, that 19:37 that they do that. But then the the rest 19:39 of us are you know they're kind of we 19:40 just kind of go with the flow and based 19:42 on where we get our news and based on 19:44 the messenger that says it we kind of go 19:46 along with that etc. and we filter the 19:49 things that we want to hear in and the 19:51 things that we don't want to hear out 19:52 and we just go on. 19:53 Do you think there's actually a cabal of 19:55 people that wake up every morning going, 19:57 you know, "Hey, we're going to enact 19:58 this policy. We're going to use this 20:01 voting system. We're going to you know 20:03 that that that it is on purpose in order 20:05 to gain power in a very sort of Maoist 20:08 Chinese Yeah. I I think it's closer I 20:10 think it's closer to what you described. 20:12 It's this whole like when we ever have 20:13 these arguments about nature versus 20:15 nurture. It's like it's not an either or 20:16 proposition. There there is absolutely 20:19 people that I I would say are probably 20:20 predisposed based off of their 20:22 experiences, based off of maybe their 20:24 their their heritage or whatnot as far 20:26 as the culture that they grew up in that 20:28 are more disposed toward we'll say 20:30 centralized government control and 20:32 things of that nature. 20:34 There are other people that absolutely 20:36 believe like when when I look at when I 20:38 look at some of the stuff within like 20:40 WEF, right? With the World Economic 20:42 Forum and stuff like that and I see some 20:43 of the people there, I see people who 20:46 are waking up every day thinking about 20:47 this. They absolutely think it's the 20:49 right course of action and they want to 20:50 control it. I think the problem is is 20:52 that whenever we start talking about 20:53 like you know a cabal, people they 20:56 conjure up these visions of like SPECTRE 20:58 in James Bond, right? It's like this 20:59 this group of evil villains 21:01 handshake and a Yeah, yeah, this group 21:03 of evil villains and a password to get 21:04 into the room and maybe people in robes 21:05 doing crazy stuff with pentagrams. 21:07 But the the problem is is that that's I 21:09 don't think that's an accurate 21:10 reflection of reality. I don't know of a 21:12 single I mean you can probably come up 21:15 with some examples, but the vast 21:17 majority of regimes that have have 21:19 desired or people that have desired that 21:22 sort of like overwhelming centralized 21:24 control honestly believed it was for the 21:27 best of everybody. Like this is 21:29 Hitler truly believed that he was doing 21:31 the right thing. 21:31 Yeah, because honestly it's really it's 21:34 really hard to accomplish incredible 21:37 things to display the sort of discipline 21:40 necessary if you think you're just doing 21:42 it for evil greedy purposes, right? I'm 21:44 just being Machiavellian. I don't truly 21:46 believe it. Yeah, I think it's I think 21:48 it's one of those things where I do 21:49 believe that there are absolutely people 21:51 that think that this is the correct 21:52 course of action that for a variety of 21:54 moral reasons it has to happen. 21:56 And I think 21:58 also when I look at like let's say Marx 22:00 for instance when you look at Marxist 22:01 ideology 22:03 I think Marx got a lot of things wrong 22:05 with respect to how we expected 22:07 communism to flourish. I think Gramsci 22:10 actually was was a far far more astute 22:13 analyst of how 22:15 that sort of like socialism or 22:17 centralized control or what not would 22:18 take place and then I look at things 22:19 like within the World Economic Forum. 22:22 And again they want to call themselves 22:24 socialist. They'd call themselves 22:25 stakeholder capitalist or whatever else 22:27 it is. But it's there's there's one 22:29 thing that kind of unifies all of these 22:31 different ideologies and that is this 22:33 idea that you know 22:36 greater centralized control of whatever 22:39 the economy, health care, education, 22:42 environmental policy 22:44 it is absolutely necessary because it's 22:46 the only way that you can manage such a 22:48 complex system. I mean my gosh, you 22:50 can't just have 8 billion people doing 22:53 what they want, right? You have to have 22:55 the centralized control. And and I 22:57 believe they honestly genuinely believe 22:59 it's for our own good and that's what's 23:01 terrifying. 23:02 will take care of all this 23:04 with the AI systems. 23:04 C.S. Lewis said it best when he said 23:06 that you know the the the greed or the 23:09 maleficence of the the robber baron, you 23:12 know, maybe satiated at some point at 23:14 some point, but the person that torments 23:16 us for our own good does so without end 23:19 because they do so with the approval of 23:20 their own conscience. 23:22 And and that's what I look at where it's 23:24 like when people when people become 23:26 convinced of this sort of course of 23:28 action that that government control is 23:30 what's going to provide the sort of 23:31 utopian experience that we all deserve, 23:33 right? 23:34 Um 23:35 the 23:36 the the extent and the lengths they will 23:38 go to in order to make sure that happens 23:41 the way they envision it 23:43 becomes 23:45 pretty horrible. 23:47 Yeah, and we saw it play out it with 23:48 COVID, right? 23:49 Yes. And I'm I'm I'm going to make this 23:51 statement. I'm vaccinated. I'm 23:53 pro-vaccine. 23:54 I had the Operation Warp Speed guys on. 23:56 I had Peter Hotez on from Baylor, you 23:58 know, on our programs etc. Absolutely. 24:01 My entire family's vaccinated etc. And I 24:02 think vaccines have value. 24:05 But when I dared to point out they 24:06 weren't as valuable as people thought 24:07 they were going to be and that the 24:09 heavy-handed patronizing condescending 24:12 thought policing 24:15 you know, elites beat the crap out of 24:17 everybody for years only to find out 24:20 they weren't exactly right about 24:21 everything. 24:22 When I dared to say that I got my 24:24 LinkedIn account frozen. That's that's 24:26 incredible. And I'm and this is saying 24:28 I'm pro-vaccine. 24:30 I'm even pro-mask if you figure out a 24:31 way to wear them right and they're not 24:32 below your nose and you wash them and 24:34 you get rid of them and they 24:35 you know, 24:36 they have some value, right? So the 24:38 notion of a nuanced conversation flew 24:40 out the window when it went against the 24:43 doctrine, right? And I like so many 24:46 others have gotten bullied for it etc. 24:47 etc. And I'm not saying I'm 24:49 anti-vaccine. I do I did say that by the 24:52 way that COVID didn't ruin my memory. 24:55 I remember when you said get in the 24:57 subway and hug a Chinese person on 24:59 Chinese New Year. I remember when you 25:00 said that and I remember when you said 25:01 the COVID vaccine probably doesn't work 25:03 cuz Trump made it. Yeah. Whatever, 25:05 right? I We remember all of these 25:07 things, okay? 25:07 I remember I remember when all the same 25:08 doctors that were telling us that we had 25:09 to close down the entire economy was 25:11 saying, "But if you want to go out and 25:12 protest under these conditions, 25:15 that's okay." And it's like, "Okay, the 25:17 the science has gone out the window at 25:19 this point." 25:20 Science is optional optional wind etc. 25:22 And then that that and then holding 25:23 oneself up as And this is the sort of 25:25 sanctimonious righteousness that you 25:27 talk about which is being so dangerous 25:29 because I am science, I am Fauci, I am 25:31 science, we know you don't. My 25:33 virologists are right, yours aren't and 25:34 there's only 4,500 in the freaking 25:36 country to begin with. So, only 4,500 25:38 people actually get to speak period 25:39 theoretically, right? 25:40 Yeah. Cuz you're not a You're not a 25:42 virologist, are you? Okay. Um that I 25:45 felt that that disease, the disease of 25:47 the the bullying and the thought police 25:48 disease was as bad or worse than the 25:51 actual the millions that died. 25:54 And and and and also the you know, we 25:58 saw a flu go away, just completely 26:00 disappear and now it's back. Uh we saw 26:02 people with multiple co-comorbidities uh 26:04 die but they died of COVID, not with 26:07 COVID, right? 26:08 Yeah. And we saw people playing with the 26:10 truth and and and controlling it and 26:12 controlling the narrative and to to dare 26:14 have that nuanced conversation to bring 26:16 that up 26:17 it is sacrilege and um this is coming 26:20 from someone who's pro-vaccine. Yeah, it 26:22 makes you a heretic. One of the things 26:24 that I worry about more and that that is 26:26 where we're getting to 26:28 this point of this show right here, 26:29 Common Ground, is the people with who 26:31 disagree and I'm a little bit left of 26:32 center uh rather considered centrist or 26:34 right right right right of center, I 26:36 don't know, even though on many many by 26:38 many many grounds he should be 26:39 considered left of center. Um 26:41 uh 26:43 the we 26:44 he get he's been told called a commie 26:46 and a Nazi at the same time, right? 26:49 Right? Yeah. So, 26:51 we have to be able to have a forum where 26:54 people have some respect for each other 26:56 and agree to disagree and also not feel 26:59 that the other person absolutely has to 27:01 believe and and and affirm what I 27:03 believe. Sure. 27:04 That is something that has changed. It 27:06 used to be that you and I just disagreed 27:07 with each other and you said whatever. I 27:08 said, "No, you have to agree with me and 27:10 if you don't, I will cancel your life." 27:13 One of the things I'm resentful about is 27:15 that growing up, I think this is 27:18 indicative of people in my age group, is 27:20 that if you're in you grew up with the 27:22 assumption that the world in 2005 would 27:24 be the world forever. That if you change 27:26 any borders, that was wrong. That 27:27 history never happened again and we were 27:29 beyond history. That 27:31 um 27:32 the idea that the world can change over 27:34 time seems ridiculous to people in my 27:36 age demographic and I am not really sure 27:39 why that is. But it's got a couple uh 27:42 side effects to it and I remember 27:43 growing up reading history books and 27:45 thinking we're better than that now and 27:47 that was a message I heard again and 27:48 again and again. Um 27:50 like they used Galileo as an example for 27:52 what wouldn't happen now of dogma going 27:54 against science and if you talk about 27:57 trans issues, that's 27:59 um 28:01 that that's 28:02 science going against dogma, but our 28:04 society has no recourse to that and the 28:08 other So, that's actually dogma going 28:09 against science, but Same. 28:11 Same Same thing. 28:13 You can reverse it. I'm trying I'm going 28:15 to make with this and it's interesting 28:16 you see this balance where because the 28:18 world never changes, 28:21 there's no frame of reference for how 28:22 big wokeness is changing the world and 28:25 with the video that you complimented me 28:27 on, 28:28 it seems obvious to me. When I wrote 28:29 that video, I I actually didn't 28:32 considered not writing it because I 28:33 thought it was content I had covered in 28:34 previous videos that people could figure 28:36 out, but um 28:38 it shocks me that for for me a lot of 28:40 these things are obvious, but 28:43 as another example, I I have a kind of 28:45 policy where every week you get a new 28:47 weird woke thing come out of a major 28:51 city. London 28:53 um 28:54 banning cars in a large or having large 28:56 fees, New York City charging people 28:58 $15,000 to basically you to have 29:01 wood-fired pizzas, New York City all 29:04 beer Let's limit your beer. 29:06 Yeah, letting immigrants stay in Grand 29:07 Central Park. And so every week there's 29:09 this something that's completely insane. 29:11 And there's a massive cultural amnesia 29:13 where if you were to bring this stuff 29:15 back to 2010 even, people would call you 29:18 completely insane and that we live in a 29:20 dystopia, but now there's 29:22 now it feels like um 29:24 the culture has gone completely insane. 29:27 Well, you and I talked about this and I 29:29 I used the phrase that the guillotine is 29:30 always thirsty, right? With regard to 29:32 revolutions. And French Revolution being 29:34 one that the hyper zealots are always 29:36 trying to out virtue signal and be more 29:39 zealous than anyone else around them. 29:41 And if you don't keep up, they will kill 29:42 you, right? So, there is an arms race 29:45 to figure out what is the cool thing 29:47 that I can do. I'm can I Oh, what I want 29:49 to be the guy that gets rid of your 29:50 beer. I want to be the guy that gets rid 29:52 of your your wood-fired oven or your 29:54 gas-fired stove or whatever it is, 29:57 right? So, it seems to be a contest 29:59 Yeah. to virtue signal the hardest. And 30:03 Because there's no feedback to reality, 30:04 the only thing that exists is intra is 30:07 social competition inside the group, 30:09 which then results in spiraling out. And 30:11 with the way the internet works is that 30:13 people have established themselves in 30:15 digital communities of like-minded 30:17 people. And so it just spirals off into 30:19 insanity. 30:21 Well, it's almost like people It's 30:23 almost like people are naturally built 30:24 to find some sort of hierarchy within 30:26 society. And the hierarchy within 30:27 wokeness is How do I get the biggest 30:31 You know, how do I get the biggest 30:32 intersectional score possible to put me 30:35 at the top of the department, right? And 30:37 or Reddit. Yeah. 30:39 Yeah. And And it's it's We We kind of 30:41 did this funny little reel a while back 30:43 where where I was like, you know, are 30:44 you are you a cisgendered hetero 30:46 normative male trying to make it at your 30:48 local local HR department? Try gender 30:50 fluidity. What is it? We don't know, but 30:53 but it's a passport it's a passport to 30:55 wherever you need to go in the hierarchy 30:57 of you know a woke dystopian, you know, 31:00 virtues 31:00 She got to know modest proposal, right? 31:02 You remember you know, Jonathan Swift's 31:03 modest proposal. 31:05 And that's where we've started from. We 31:06 started with the fundamental notion and 31:08 this was me as a liberal. Um I wanted 31:10 fundamental you know, equality. I wanted 31:12 fairness, 31:13 tolerance. That that's that's what we 31:15 aspire to, right? Um we don't aspire to 31:18 that any longer. That is not that that 31:20 is not the aspiration. The aspiration is 31:22 beyond equality. It's it's equity, 31:24 right? Quality of outcomes. I was one of 31:26 the first people to use that phrase. 31:28 Um but I started noticing that we don't 31:29 want to equal opportunity. We want equal 31:31 outcome. 31:33 Um and um who I am, my identity is more 31:36 important than what I do, how I do it, 31:38 if I'm good to people, if I it you know, 31:40 that that became the central focus in my 31:42 identity. But it all started from a good 31:44 place. I would argue that BLM and even 31:47 Antifa came from a 31:49 an original good notion, which is yeah, 31:52 we don't want police brutality, 31:53 especially against minorities. We are 31:55 anti-fascist, right? And then of course 31:57 I I think anybody with a brain has to 31:59 agree that Antifa is a fascist 32:01 organization. 32:02 I mean, technically not so much fascist. 32:05 Well, no, but but but in their actions 32:08 they do all the same thing. They are 32:09 brownshirts. They enforce their dogma on 32:12 everybody else without you know, without 32:15 conversation. What I what I think is 32:16 interesting is that when when I talk to 32:18 somebody that might be more of what you 32:20 might call a traditional liberal. 32:23 There was still a there was still a 32:25 commitment to the idea of um the laws of 32:27 logic. Like all right, we all agree law 32:29 of identity, law of excluded middle, law 32:31 of non-contradiction. And we all agree 32:33 on on some degree of empiricism, right? 32:34 We we may we may have different 32:36 perspectives on on the facts of reality, 32:38 but we also agree that there's there's 32:39 good, you know, uh perspectives on 32:42 reality and then there's there's 32:44 at the very least inaccurate 32:45 perspectives on reality. 32:47 And and that's not the case anymore. And 32:49 and I I trace a lot of this back when 32:51 you look at um 32:53 critical theory, when you look at 32:54 post-modernism, when you look at 32:56 deconstructionism, 32:57 the whole purpose of that is to rail 32:59 against, you know, these 33:00 meta-narratives. 33:02 And the the biggest meta-narrative out 33:04 there is that there's such a thing as 33:05 objective truth. Yeah. And so if you can 33:08 actually convince someone that well, 33:10 there is no objective truth, there is no 33:11 objective morality, what there is is 33:13 perspective, well then that the question 33:15 it begs the question well then how do 33:17 you know what's right or wrong? How do 33:18 you know what's really happening? Well, 33:20 that's that's answered by lived 33:21 experience. It's it's answered by uh do 33:24 you fall within the oppressor class or 33:25 the oppressed class? And the lived 33:28 experience of someone that is considered 33:30 in the oppressed class, which is 33:31 generally associated with sexual 33:33 identity or race, 33:35 um their lived experience trumps 33:37 whatever evidence you bring to bear. And 33:38 in fact, the moment you try to bring 33:40 evidence to bear, that's an indication 33:42 that you've bought into the racist 33:45 patriarchal system, which has been 33:46 designed to benefit you at the expense 33:49 of others. Well, here's my question. 33:52 If there is no standard of reason where 33:55 we can look at evidence 33:57 from from different viewpoints, from 33:58 different perspectives, from different 33:59 backgrounds, and come to some sort of 34:01 conclusion about what is real, 34:04 well then all we're left with is you're 34:06 either going to be an oppressor or 34:08 you're going to be oppressed. Well, I 34:10 don't know anybody that wants to be 34:11 oppressed. 34:12 And so now the only way that we can 34:14 adjudicate our problems is through 34:15 violence. 34:16 And the way that they're proposing that 34:18 we do that now is and and we see this 34:21 all the time, like our democracy. And 34:23 and I see politicians do this all the 34:25 time. They use democracy as if it's 34:27 synonymous with freedom. And it isn't. 34:30 It's one One one vote. Yeah, I think 34:32 representative government is very 34:34 important and I I think it's I I think 34:36 it can be a very important bullwark in 34:38 in ensuring that you have a free society 34:39 where you have equality before the law 34:42 and you have people that are able to go 34:43 out into society in the marketplace and 34:46 and make their own decisions for what 34:47 they want to do with their own labor, 34:49 their own talent, their own property. 34:51 But it's not synonymous. 34:54 And and what what I have now and I I got 34:56 in this I had a interesting conversation 34:58 with a gentleman on a plane where he was 35:00 like, "I'm just so sick of the a lack of 35:01 civility." 35:03 And and I say, "Well, 35:05 yeah, rhetorical civility is certainly a 35:08 problem." I said, "But it's I would 35:09 argue it's not the biggest problem." He 35:11 goes, "What do you mean?" 35:13 The biggest incivility that I experience 35:17 is not someone calling me a bad name on 35:19 Twitter. 35:21 The biggest incivility I experience is 35:22 when someone says, "I think we should do 35:24 it this way and therefore I'm going to 35:26 use government power to compel you to do 35:28 it that way for an issue which is 35:31 nowhere near being a legitimate function 35:34 of government." 35:35 And so if 35:37 You are bringing you you're approaching 35:38 this from a logical, rational 35:41 um empirical approach. That's your 35:43 mindset. That's how you view that. It's 35:45 very very difficult. But I try to act as 35:47 sort of an interpreter for people on the 35:49 right with people on the left, 35:50 especially what I mean by that, hyper 35:52 progressive, hyper woke, that that 35:53 group. Because as you said, there were 35:55 there are classic liberals who you can 35:56 have a conversation with. I consider 35:58 myself one and we have many of the same 36:00 values and principles and approaches to 36:02 thinking that are the same. 36:04 All of this grew out of the desire not 36:06 to be judged and not be told I have to 36:07 go to Nam. 36:09 I think it's envy. 36:09 Right? 36:10 You can't judge me. 36:12 I want to be free of responsibility and 36:14 I want to do what I want to do, right? 36:16 And therefore, because I want to do what 36:18 I want to do, if you have objective 36:20 measures of truth and good and whatever, 36:22 no, I want to do what I want to do. I 36:23 want to 36:24 make love, not war. 36:26 You know, you know, have fun and be you 36:28 know, all of that kind of stuff. I'm 36:29 okay, you're okay. The blank slate stuff 36:32 that came out of the '70s and all that 36:33 kind of stuff. Absolutely. 36:35 But you're approaching it from 36:37 a logical, rational view. They're 36:38 basically, this is an emotional notion. 36:40 I want what I want. 36:42 And I'm going to use verbal karate. 36:44 I'm going to use verbal jujitsu. 36:47 And I'm going to be a completely unfair 36:49 about it. I'm not Fairness is not 36:51 important. Winning is important. I'm 36:53 going to beat you at this rhetorical 36:54 conversation because when you say one 36:56 thing, I'm going to say the other. Uh 36:59 I'm going to use, you know, 37:01 verbal karate as I can because I 37:04 I I want what I want. The way I view it 37:06 When I think about what 37:07 You're never going to be able to bridge 37:08 this gap. 37:09 what Rudyard was saying Sorry, go ahead, 37:11 Rudyard. But you said something about 37:12 the abdication of responsibility. 37:14 Oh, I was I was going to say the way I 37:16 view this is that certain historical 37:18 trends 37:19 Philosophy is a manifestation of what 37:21 else is going on in this era. And I can 37:23 say, having studied every major 37:25 philosophy in history, critical theory 37:27 is the stupidest ever. I cannot believe 37:29 that our society drank this. It's the It 37:31 makes no sense under any logical 37:33 circumstances you want to invent. 37:35 It's self-defeating. And So And here's 37:37 the problem. A lot of people don't even 37:38 know what it is. I say that we're in the 37:40 equivalent of mental health black death. 37:42 But I talk about these cycles over 37:44 history where 37:46 And it's What I find is that you could 37:48 basically say God wants these things to 37:50 play out and he'll find incredibly 37:52 ironic ways where the normal thing 37:54 before a cycle is mass hunger and food 37:56 problems from that. Now obesity's having 37:58 the exact same result. So you pick the 38:00 opposite thing to get the same result. 38:03 And what's normal is giant plagues 38:05 devastate the population and cut it in 38:07 half. But for us right now, our 38:10 population or the world's industrial, 38:12 whatever population is going to go down 38:13 by half 38:15 due to mental health because people 38:17 aren't mentally well enough to have 38:18 children. And you're seeing I could talk 38:21 about mass utopia if you guys don't know 38:22 about it. But it's a different story 38:24 where 38:26 the reason our worldview doesn't make 38:28 any sense is because 38:31 it's made by people who don't make any 38:33 sense because they're in the middle of a 38:34 giant mental health pandemic. 38:38 And all I was saying about that earlier 38:39 is Nick, if you're having a conversation 38:41 with one of those people, you are 38:42 wasting your time. Oh, no. 38:44 to understand the the the the root you 38:46 know, the root causes. No, I I put I put 38:48 people in the category of reasonable and 38:50 unreasonable. And and and that goes for 38:52 right and left. Right? If once somebody 38:54 goes in the unreasonable category, it's 38:55 like I don't I don't try I don't exert a 38:57 lot of energy trying to convince someone 38:59 that is unreasonable of something. But I 39:01 do think it's important to understand 39:02 cuz when I agree with Rudyard that when 39:04 you look at critical theory, it's like 39:05 this is the most 39:07 obvious on its face self-defeating 39:10 philosophy you could have ever imagined. 39:12 you haven't read it. Well, 39:14 but if you literally haven't read it, 39:15 but you want to believe it, 39:17 then you can believe it because you 39:19 haven't read it. 39:20 what I found is that nobody actually 39:21 applies it, right? They they only 39:23 selectively apply it for when it makes 39:25 sense. Typically, what people want is 39:27 they want to make their argument based 39:29 off of logic, based off of reason, based 39:30 off of empiricism, based off of 39:32 experience. They justify their emotions 39:34 with logic. 39:35 They're they're irrelevant, right? And 39:36 until until their argument falls apart. 39:38 And then all of a sudden, well, of 39:39 course you'd say that you're a blah blah 39:41 You attack. It's rule four it's it's 39:43 rule 13 of of Alinsky's rules. 39:44 Alinsky's. Yeah, rules for radicals. 39:45 Attack attack them and ridicule them. 39:47 But I But I think there's a But the 39:49 question is is why does it why does it 39:51 persist? And and I think what what 39:54 Rudyard said about the idea of of 39:55 advocating responsibility, like Thomas 39:57 Sowell wrote this and I'm I'm a huge 39:59 Thomas Sowell fan, but in his book um a 40:01 conflict of visions, where he talks 40:03 about the tragic vision and the vision 40:05 of the anointed, it was really this idea 40:07 where again, for some people, I think it 40:10 comes from this sense that, you know, 40:12 Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right? 40:14 Self-actualization is is the highest 40:16 thing out there. Well, if my 40:17 self-actualization 40:19 is identifying as X and doing this and 40:21 doing that, well, then 40:23 my only system of morality 40:26 is anything that stands in the way of 40:28 self-actualization becomes evil. It 40:31 doesn't become a different perspective. 40:32 It doesn't become a different 40:33 philosophy. It becomes evil because it's 40:35 standing in the way of that. Agree. 40:37 And that's the only thing that provides, 40:39 you know, some sort of anchor to 40:41 reality. 40:42 It is having constant enemies that you 40:45 can fight because they're standing in 40:46 the way of your self-actualization. 40:48 Well, the problem is the very obvious 40:50 problem for anybody that looks at it 40:51 from more of the the tragic vision is 40:53 this idea of okay, but if your 40:55 self-actualization 40:56 doesn't correspond with reality, it's 40:59 not going to bring you any actual 41:00 meaning or purpose. In fact, it's going 41:02 to do the opposite. You're going to get 41:03 But I don't want to hear that. Yeah, 41:05 you're going to get to the top of 41:06 mountain and you're going to find out 41:07 it's empty. But to your point, if 41:10 somebody is dedicated to going down that 41:12 path, 41:14 I don't know that there's anything that 41:15 I can do. I I can And And this is a 41:18 problem that we have with anybody that I 41:19 I would say shares more of the vision 41:21 that we have. 41:22 If you get too obsessed with convincing 41:25 them of the lie without pointing to the 41:27 alternative, 41:29 they will stick with the comfortable 41:31 lie. Yeah. Absolutely. So, you you have 41:33 to provide the alternative. So, what I'm 41:35 driven by mostly is how do we bridge 41:37 this gap and how do we do something 41:38 about it because what I see all the time 41:40 is people that I consider center or 41:41 right talking to each others in a 41:43 vacuum. Because if they talk to someone 41:45 in the left, they'll get crucified. They 41:47 are not about the They They will be 41:50 outed as whatever and called a 41:51 right-wing whatever. So, they talk to 41:53 There's a There's an echo chamber and 41:55 certainly the left has a huge echo 41:57 chamber and it's actually controlled by 41:58 the media. I mean, it's it's it's an 41:59 outright echo chamber, right? But um but 42:02 I don't hear moderates and conservatives 42:05 talk about strategies the way someone on 42:08 the left would. Well, I think The way 42:09 Alinsky Alinsky would have 42:11 What's that? I'd be totally happy to do 42:13 that. 42:14 Um 42:14 Yeah, 42:15 I don't see people trying to 42:17 operationalize okay first off 42:19 let's agree I think we'd agree that 42:20 there are complete zealots that you 42:22 shouldn't even try to argue with because 42:23 as my mom used to say you're crazy and 42:25 my feet work. So I'm out of here, right? 42:27 Okay. Mom was a wise woman. Well, yeah, 42:30 so 42:31 um 42:32 you know, so but there is there are 42:34 well-intended people 42:36 who think they know a lot of stuff and 42:38 one of them is for me is is that they're 42:39 not educated and they think they are 42:40 that hubris is really dangerous. 42:42 Socialism and we talk about this all the 42:44 time is defined today as sharing and 42:46 caring. 42:46 Yeah. 42:47 That is not the classic definition of 42:49 socialism, right? It's where the state 42:51 owns the means of production. But that's 42:53 not what they've learned. 42:54 And if and and and and so that 42:56 you can't have an argument with somebody 42:58 if they're using the word socialism to 42:59 mean sharing and caring and you're using 43:01 to mean what the state owns the means of 43:02 production etc, right? And there are 43:04 countless examples of these things where 43:06 we aren't even on the same page. 43:08 Um 43:09 They they haven't critical race theory. 43:11 One of critical race theory's principles 43:12 is that the 43:14 the system is so inherently 43:18 biased and so corrupt that meritocracies 43:21 are racist. 43:22 Yeah. 43:23 A meritocracy is racist because 43:27 I I can't judge you by how good you are 43:28 because you were you were some people 43:30 were born on third base and they thought 43:31 they hit a triple. Yeah. 43:33 Right? Whereas somebody else is in the 43:34 dugout and is not even have a bat. Yeah. 43:36 So I got to give them a bat I need to 43:37 put them on third base. 43:39 What Well, and and and and I sorry go 43:41 ahead with your As someone who grew up 43:43 Gen Z I kind of got a score inside my 43:45 head where I have a series of strategies 43:46 for how Gen Z people deal with the 43:48 current world. Some become fanatics, 43:51 some become nihilists, some become 43:53 epicureans and degenerates, and then 43:55 some try to 43:57 guide themselves in the world and figure 43:58 out how to best deal with it. And it's 44:00 kind of heartbreaking because you see 44:03 these strategies play out among people 44:04 you know, and if someone does it you're 44:07 not going to dig them out of it. If 44:08 someone's a fanatical wokist, nothing 44:10 you say is going to change that. If 44:11 someone's a complete degenerate, nothing 44:13 you say is going to change that. And I 44:15 think the fundamental reality is that 44:17 we're going to have to 44:19 see things play out in real time. And 44:21 one of the points religion's made is 44:22 that you can't teach someone, they have 44:24 to learn it. And we're in a society 44:27 where lots of people 44:29 don't want to hear that they're wrong. 44:31 But the great thing, and it's not going 44:33 to be fun to live through, is that 44:34 reality always wakes people up. 44:39 Again, I'm going to reference Christian 44:41 again, one of my co-host. He likes to 44:43 say, you can ignore reality, you just 44:44 can't ignore the consequences of 44:46 ignoring reality. 44:48 And and that's and that's one of these 44:50 things where again, I think the crisis 44:53 of identity is a real problem. 44:55 Um especially if you're if you're 44:57 looking at it in kind of like a hyper 45:00 secular 45:02 um idea where there's no framework for 45:05 objective truth or objective morality. 45:07 Um that is that is a a I believe a 45:10 self-defeating and ultimately hollow and 45:12 purposeless existence. 45:15 However, that group that does that does 45:16 have a very strict code of morality that 45:19 is theirs. Mhm. 45:21 Right? They're sometimes the most 45:22 puritanical. 45:23 Oh, yeah. Yeah. 45:24 The Me Too movement was incredibly 45:26 puritanical, right? And they were 45:27 surprised that Hollywood had a casting 45:29 couch in it. 45:30 Yeah. Yeah. Well, but it's but it's it's 45:32 still it's still an arbitrary form of 45:34 morality, right? Like so so again, I'm 45:37 I'm a Christian. Um and and when I look 45:40 at my theology 45:42 um the the 45:44 the dedication to objective truth, 45:45 objective morality, and that there's 45:47 that there is right and wrong answers to 45:48 the way that you actually live. What's 45:50 one of the most interesting things about 45:52 it? There's this verse in scripture 45:53 where it talks about the peace which 45:55 surpasses all understanding. 45:57 Right? It's not the peace that everybody 45:59 understands cuz everything's going well 46:00 and prosperity doctrine, right? It's not 46:02 that, it's the peace that surpasses all 46:03 understanding. It's this idea that I 46:06 know my I know where my identity is. 46:09 I know ultimately what the ultimate 46:11 purpose and meaning of my life is. 46:14 And then I am promised hardship. I I 46:17 always like to tell people like if you 46:18 were looking for an easy faith to 46:20 choose, you would not choose 46:21 Christianity. Absolutely. But it's No, 46:24 it's actually the hardest one. 46:25 Yeah, but it's it's actually Yeah, it 46:26 was it was I think it was G.K. 46:27 Chesterton that said that Christianity 46:28 It's not that Christianity has 46:30 tried and found wrong, it's that it's 46:32 been found difficult and left untried, 46:34 but it it's this idea that um 46:37 when when bad things happen in my life, 46:40 they don't confuse me, right? Like I'm 46:42 not I'm not Oh my gosh, I can't believe 46:44 a bad thing happened. That this must be 46:45 some sort of sense of cosmic injustice 46:47 that at the root of which is some sort 46:49 of patriarchal system which is designed 46:51 to keep me down. 46:52 Yeah, that's No, it's I don't it 46:55 Souldes does a great job of explaining 46:56 this where he says like how do we 46:57 explain all the poverty in the world? He 46:58 goes, "What do you mean explaining? 47:00 Poverty is the natural state of mankind. 47:02 How do you explain wealth?" 47:03 Right? So when when you have a vision 47:05 where all of a sudden it's like I expect 47:07 bad things to happen and I find joy when 47:10 wonderful things happen, and and I have 47:12 a peace about it because when the bad 47:14 things happen, it doesn't shake my very 47:16 existence to the core. 47:18 Um cuz I expected it. And so the the 47:20 real question is 47:21 two camps, there are people who see that 47:23 in both of the different ways you 47:24 described, and if unhappiness is unmet 47:26 expectations, 47:28 right? And your expectations are utopia, 47:30 Yeah. you're going to be really, really 47:31 unhappy, right? 47:32 Yeah, all right. World's never going to 47:33 make sense. 47:34 moderates and conservatives seem to be 47:36 uh of the glass half full theory, 47:39 or I have a glass at all. Yeah. I'm just 47:41 happy to have a glass with a little 47:42 water in it today. 47:44 Yeah. And if I can get tomorrow with a 47:45 glass with a little bit of water, I'm 47:46 okay, right? As opposed to that guy's 47:48 got two glasses full of water, and I 47:50 have to kill 47:51 that's one of the points that the 47:52 Unabomber made where uh Ted Kaczynski 47:54 said the fundamental origin of the left 47:57 is a sense of resentment against 48:00 extremely large power hierarchies 48:02 because today you go to a bureaucratic 48:04 school or go to bureaucratic work, 48:07 date through an app, you go to a 48:10 bureaucratic retirement home. Every part 48:12 of your life is and you feel like an ant 48:15 in a giant city. And so the left and 48:19 poverty is normal across history. The 48:21 left is modern. And so modernity 48:24 establishes these very impersonal 48:26 hierarchies. And if you look at the left 48:28 from the perspective, these are people 48:30 who feel resentful. And the reason that 48:33 societies need to have responsibility. 48:35 And for classical liberal um 48:39 systems like America, the responsibility 48:40 is entrenched in the individual so it 48:42 doesn't go to the tyrant. But the thing 48:43 is everyone on the left wants to be the 48:45 tyrant. So they don't set any safeguards 48:47 against that. And it naturally happens. 48:49 And I'd like to change So I was very 48:51 resentful growing up. I I I grew up dirt 48:53 poor, as you know, Roger. We were 48:55 homeless for a while. Went went to 11 48:57 schools by the time I got to the 10th 48:58 grade. 48:59 You know, never went to the same school 49:00 2 years in a row. Um and I was pissed 49:03 off and I was saying, "So why does this 49:04 guy have a dad and I don't have a dad? 49:06 Why are three of us living in a one-room 49:07 bed bedroom etc.? What you know, why are 49:09 we sleeping in our car?" I was angry. I 49:11 was mad and I was resentful. 49:14 And uh that's part of what made 49:16 socialism 49:17 very attractive to me. 49:19 And I didn't have a problem with it. Now 49:21 it it made absolute sense. Yeah, they 49:23 have, I don't. We have 49:25 This sucks. Why is that fair? 49:26 you and you didn't and you didn't have 49:28 through no fault of your own at that 49:30 point in your life. Right? It's like you 49:32 you were dealt a bad hand. 49:34 But if I had not been given the hand of 49:36 being born in America where if I did 49:39 study, work, contribute, I could make 49:41 something for myself, that then then I 49:43 think I probably would have been burning 49:44 down. Yeah. Yeah. Right? But 49:47 in America, 49:49 you know, I had the opportunity to go to 49:51 school, the 49:52 state paid for, 49:54 right? I had the opportunity to keep my 49:56 nose clean, which I did largely. Um, get 49:58 a job, go to grad school, but take on 50:01 student loans, 50:03 and all that kind of stuff, etc. And and 50:04 I got grants cuz you know, I was a an 50:06 independent student. 50:08 But there was an opportunity to do that, 50:09 right? And uh 50:13 I I 50:14 to be upset to to to live today where we 50:16 live in the best world that that the 50:18 best that you humans have ever lived 50:20 before, the best situation existence 50:21 people have ever lived, and to be so 50:22 miserably unhappy, 50:25 it drives me a little crazy, right? But 50:27 I understand when you see somebody else 50:29 with way more than you, you can be 50:30 jealous. My socialist pops out when I 50:32 see a guy in a yacht, and I see a guy on 50:34 the street. 50:35 What I'd say is 50:36 I got to be I got to be honest on that 50:37 on on that one, which which is 50:38 interesting because it's I I have 50:40 I've definitely been at points in my 50:42 life like I explained to somebody once 50:43 because I I had somebody on the left 50:45 accusing me of not knowing what it was 50:47 like 50:48 um to struggle, and I was like, "I'm 50:51 going to stop you right there. I know 50:52 what it's like to watch my wife be cold 50:54 in the winter because I couldn't pay the 50:55 bill." 50:57 And I will tell you right now, you want 50:58 to feel as if you have just failed as a 51:01 man and as a husband. 51:03 Um I did. I felt that way. I felt it 51:06 very very deeply. 51:07 But there's that assumption that you 51:09 haven't you've never suffered. 51:10 Well, of course, because if if success 51:12 is all about luck, success is all about 51:14 a a system which is designed to lift up 51:16 some and oppress others. 51:18 And and and and you you see this too, 51:20 and this I think this goes back to 51:21 something to the what you were saying 51:23 earlier was this whole idea of 51:25 um 51:28 people feel as if um 51:31 things just kind of happen to them. 51:33 And they don't have a great deal of 51:34 control over it. And there is it is 51:36 incredibly enticing. If if you feel like 51:39 the the world is stacked against the 51:40 deck is stacked against you because 51:42 comparatively it is. Like I I don't I 51:45 don't negate that. That's one thing I 51:46 think conservatives do sometimes when 51:47 they talk about this or libertarians, 51:49 where they where they just dismiss 51:50 dismiss the hardship of people that 51:52 really were grew up in totally unfair, 51:55 unjust circumstances. 51:57 It's like no, acknowledge that. 52:00 The question is 52:01 what do we do about it as a society, 52:04 right? What do we do about it now? 52:05 Because if if you see the world as 52:07 imperfect because it is, then you're not 52:09 shocked by tragedy. Yeah. But you should 52:12 be you should be emotionally moved and 52:14 want to do something about it. And the 52:16 problem that I have with the problem 52:18 that I have with modern progressivism or 52:20 modern liberal, whatever you want to 52:21 call it. I don't I don't I don't like 52:23 calling it liberalism because it's not. 52:24 It's it's whatever you want to 52:26 No, no, it's a bastardization. 52:27 Yeah, it's it's authoritarianism dressed 52:29 up as liberalism. But if you look at it 52:31 the whole idea is like well, there's 52:33 some sort of cosmic injustice that's 52:34 taking place here. And the way that 52:36 we're going to solve it is through the 52:37 centralization of government power and 52:39 the use of coercive force to 52:40 redistribute wealth. And I'm looking at 52:42 it going whoa, whoa, whoa there. Calm 52:44 down, sport. 52:45 Like 52:46 the the emotion you feel because the 52:48 question I like to ask is okay, great. 52:51 Has the theory you're proposing ever 52:52 been tried before? Yep, sure has. Maoist 52:56 China, it's been tried in the Soviet 52:57 Union, it's been tried in Cuba, it's 52:58 been tried in other places. Okay, what 53:00 has been the result for the people that 53:01 have had the deck stacked against them? 53:03 Are there is there material wealth 53:05 improved as a result of this? No, 53:07 they're the same people getting on leaky 53:08 rafts desperately trying to get to the 53:10 country that doesn't impose those same 53:13 sort of economic restrictions or social 53:15 restrictions. So the question is 53:18 do you want to alleviate the suffering 53:20 that you see that you feel is unjust or 53:24 do you want to alleviate the angst you 53:26 feel about seeing it? 53:28 And more and more what I see taking 53:30 place is people that are not at all 53:31 interested about really getting down 53:34 into the the core problem 53:35 lie to themselves and say this will fix 53:37 the problem when they probably know that 53:38 it won't. And they should never have 53:40 any obligation on them. It doesn't 53:42 provide any obligation on them 53:43 personally. They are free to sit there 53:45 and be like, yes, my answer I am so 53:47 sorry for my ancestors. They're not 53:49 really sorry because they're not 53:50 assuming personal responsibility. 53:52 They're just saying that everyone that 53:53 came before me that look like me is a 53:55 horrible human being and and I I agree 53:56 they all suck. And then it's like, okay, 53:59 great. So you're going to house this 54:00 person. Oh, well no, I'm not going to 54:01 house this person. I'm just going to 54:02 elect the person that is going to take 54:04 from these other people. Yeah, but these 54:06 other people and they're going to do it, 54:08 right? We are going to do it. You're not 54:09 doing jack. 54:10 And and so there's there's no there's no 54:12 sense of personal responsibility because 54:15 that's all been outsourced to whatever 54:17 collective group you belong to. 54:19 And and so Eric Hoffer talks about this 54:21 in his book True Believer, 54:23 um where it's this whole idea of I I can 54:25 then I can take my morality and I can 54:27 take my personal responsibility and I 54:29 can foist it onto the group. Now the 54:30 group will have certain obligations for 54:32 me. And the group may require me to do 54:34 some pretty evil bad things, but it's 54:36 okay. It's not evil. It's not bad. It's 54:38 in service of a greater good and all 54:39 these opposite for the good of the 54:40 party. I mean it's in the communist 54:41 manifesto. 54:42 the group and the group has decided that 54:43 this is this is okay and so therefore I 54:45 must do it. Uh did you And and I think 54:47 yeah. I was going to say so there's a 54:49 dichotomy. My father told me when I was 54:51 14 that I should pull myself up by my 54:52 bootstraps. 54:54 And I and I and I and being humble as I 54:55 am I said, "Dad, it'd be nice if I had 54:56 boots." Yeah. 54:58 And that to your point is what what some 55:01 of the conservatives do, which is deep 55:03 uh they don't pay enough attention, they 55:04 don't give enough credit to the 55:06 disparity, it's you know, between the 55:08 situation some people find themselves in 55:10 and others, etc. through no fault of 55:11 their own. 55:12 Uh yet on the other hand, the answer is 55:14 not to burn everything down and to take 55:16 everything from somebody else and to 55:18 vilify them, etc. right? The 55:20 The goal should be to lift everyone else 55:22 up and give them opportunity. And I 55:23 swear to God and and when at the height 55:25 of my communist socialist heart, 55:28 in my in my youth, 55:29 uh I was struck by the fact that I could 55:32 find very few people like the character 55:33 Boxer in Animal Farm. Remember Animal 55:36 Farm where the horse says, I will try 55:38 harder. I will do more. 55:40 The idea of truly being dedicated to 55:42 this and I you know, each to his needs 55:44 and each to his abilities and this kind 55:45 of stuff that you know, share and share 55:47 alike. Screw that. They didn't mean 55:48 that. They just wanted free 55:51 My friends just wanted They didn't want 55:52 to work and they wanted free 55:54 There was There were no boxers among 55:56 them and that's why Animal Farm is so 55:57 good because there's only one like one 55:58 guy that's working himself to death. 56:01 Right? And then he gets turned into 56:02 glue. 56:03 Yeah, and then later he turns and gets 56:04 turned into glue cuz he dies, right? He 56:05 works himself to death. If we could all 56:07 that but people aren't that way and the 56:10 only thing that I can say to people who 56:12 aspire to have some sort of socialist 56:14 utopia is it would work if you didn't 56:16 use people. 56:18 And capitalism and and the is based on 56:21 the idea that if I do something that's 56:23 good for you, I will selfishly benefit. 56:26 That seems to have worked forever. 56:28 Well, it's 56:29 with with some guidelines with some 56:32 oversight by the government. Well, I 56:33 tell students all the time when I'm when 56:35 I'm whenever I'm invited to come and 56:36 talk to students, they always get the 56:37 priority with our office. 56:39 I will cancel I'll I'll cancel 100 56:42 events with a bunch of adults if I if I 56:44 can have an opportunity to talk with 56:45 students who are actually going to ask 56:47 me questions because 56:48 they're they're searching as opposed to 56:50 just wanting to know what I'm going to 56:51 say so they can decide they like it or 56:53 don't like it. Mhm. And and one of the 56:56 things that I I really try to emphasize 56:58 to like the high school students or the 56:59 college students I speak to is 57:01 stop asking yourself or or don't 57:04 exclusively ask what the intention of a 57:06 policy is. Ask yourself what sort of 57:08 incentive structure is created by the 57:10 policy because that's going to give you 57:11 far more insight into what the outcome 57:13 will be. 57:14 I said the the benefit that your hope 57:16 within a socialist society is that 57:18 everyone will decide to work together 57:20 for the collective goodness of mankind, 57:22 right? Or humankind. 57:24 That's your hope. But the incentive 57:26 structure that you've set up is 57:28 everybody gets according to their need 57:30 as opposed to their contribution. 57:33 So, what have you emphasized? Well, 57:35 you've emphasized need over ability. 57:39 Well, then you're going to get a lot of 57:40 need, and you're going to get less 57:41 ability because ability is punished with 57:43 more work, need is rewarded with more 57:45 stuff. 57:46 I said, "Now, within a within a free 57:48 market system, 57:50 what we've essentially done is we've 57:51 said, 57:52 'You have the right to own property, and 57:54 you have the ownership over your own 57:55 labor and over your own mind, 57:58 and nobody can compel you by force 58:01 to engage in commerce. You only engage 58:03 in it if it's a voluntary transaction, 58:05 and you only do so if you believe that 58:07 there's mutual benefit involved.'" 58:09 I said, "So, which one of these 58:10 incentive structures is superior? Which 58:13 Which or Which one of these incentive 58:15 structures do you believe is more likely 58:17 to achieve the sort of outcome that you 58:19 want?" And And if the answer it if the 58:21 answer is, "Well, this one sounds so 58:22 good, but this one provides the proper 58:24 incentive structure," 58:25 well, then if you really want to help 58:27 people, 58:28 you're not going to go with the system 58:29 that makes you feel better about 58:30 yourself, you're going to go with the 58:31 system that actually addresses the 58:33 problem based off of an appropriate 58:34 incentive structure. 58:36 And And one of one of the issues that we 58:37 have when we talk about free markets is 58:39 we've constantly made this argument 58:41 that, "Well, you got to go with free 58:42 markets. Look at how much wealthier 58:44 everyone is." Well, we're saying, 58:45 "Follow us, and you'll get wealthy." 58:47 They're saying, "Follow us, and you'll 58:48 save the world." 58:50 I don't argue first for free markets 58:51 based off of an economic economic 58:53 argument. I argue for it on a moral 58:55 argument. 58:57 This is the system where I have control 58:59 over my labor. I have control over my 59:01 mind. You can't take it from me by 59:03 force. You You can only 59:05 And you cannot profit unless you do 59:07 something that benefits others. 59:08 You can only entice me to do it because 59:10 the the the transaction that's going to 59:12 take place is going to be mutually 59:14 beneficial. 59:15 I mean, that is that is a morally 59:17 superior system before we ever get to 59:18 the economic outcomes of it. So, I spent 59:20 a lot of time in compensation reward 59:22 theory as a consultant. Oh, okay. 59:24 B-school Out of B-school, and what I 59:25 learned out of my little Forrest Gump 59:27 way is be careful what you pay for, 59:29 that's what you'll get. 59:31 Okay? 59:32 So, uh let me give you an example, J.C. 59:34 Penney in their um uh call in centers. 59:38 They had a rule that said for every call 59:40 that you take, you get a a a check and 59:43 you get money. More calls. So, what some 59:47 of the people figured out to do is they 59:48 would transfer a call to their buddy 59:49 next to them. Yeah. That call comes in, 59:51 I immediately transfer it to the next 59:52 person. Every call that person they got, 59:54 they transferred it to me. So, they 59:56 doubled their call volumes simply by 59:57 transferring it. One moment, please. Let 59:59 me get you with someone who can help 1:00:00 you. People are smart. 1:00:02 Okay? People are smart, they will game 1:00:03 the system, okay? 1:00:05 If you do not acknowledge that, greed, 1:00:08 selfishness, laziness 1:00:10 in all people, right? And also 1:00:12 acknowledge hard work and and those 1:00:14 people that are willing to go the extra 1:00:15 mile. If you don't If you don't build 1:00:16 your system 1:00:18 to deal with those fundamental realities 1:00:19 and and and fail to acknowledge that be 1:00:22 careful, you know, what what you pay 1:00:23 for, that's what you're going to get, 1:00:25 you're going to have a failed system. 1:00:26 Yeah. And it's worked in every business 1:00:28 I've ever been in. Pay people what you 1:00:29 want them to do. No, that's that's 1:00:31 really that's 1:00:32 No, I I think that's so important. Um 1:00:35 you know, another thing that I found 1:00:37 is that the the reason why I feel like 1:00:39 even even when 1:00:41 they start to get the government 1:00:42 policies that they they claim are going 1:00:44 to make things better, it doesn't make 1:00:46 them happier. 1:00:47 Because what what we find is I think 1:00:50 that it's an old Chinese proverb 1:00:53 that says when you give a 1:00:54 when you give a man a gift he can't 1:00:55 repay you, you compel him to hate you. 1:00:59 And it's because we we do desire we do 1:01:01 desire the mutually beneficial 1:01:03 transaction. 1:01:04 And what I what I find 1:01:06 Well, what I find with so Well, but 1:01:08 here's what I'll say. Even the people 1:01:10 that theoretically think that my life is 1:01:12 going to be good when I don't have to 1:01:13 worry about paying rent and I don't got 1:01:15 to worry about paying for food and I 1:01:16 don't got to worry about paying for Are 1:01:17 they happy? No. In fact, there's there's 1:01:20 a fascinating book written by a guy 1:01:22 named Theodore Dalrymple 1:01:24 called Life at the Bottom. And that's 1:01:26 his pen name and he and he said he 1:01:27 deliberately picked that pen name 1:01:28 because he wanted the most obnoxious 1:01:30 British name possible. I think his 1:01:31 actual name is Dr. Anthony, I think it's 1:01:33 Daniels. Mhm. 1:01:35 And he worked as a he worked as a doctor 1:01:37 in sub-Saharan Africa, but he writes 1:01:39 primarily about his experience writing 1:01:40 as a doctor and a psychiatrist within 1:01:42 the British National Health Service and 1:01:44 the British prison system. Mhm. 1:01:47 And one of the observations that he 1:01:48 finds cuz the book Life at the Bottom is 1:01:50 a series of articles that he wrote 1:01:51 throughout his entire career 1:01:53 is that 1:01:54 the the idea was is that if we absolved 1:01:57 people of the responsibilities of having 1:01:59 to provide for themselves and their 1:02:00 families that they would have all this 1:02:02 excess time to 1:02:05 develop in the arts and develop in 1:02:07 intellectual ways that would be 1:02:09 beneficial for society because we we've 1:02:11 absolved them of the responsibility of 1:02:13 being a wage slave or whatever else. 1:02:15 And he goes and and what we find is 1:02:17 that's not how people react to that. 1:02:20 That people find purpose and meaning in 1:02:22 those those little responsibilities, 1:02:24 those those significant responsibilities 1:02:27 of 1:02:28 feeding themselves, clothing themselves, 1:02:30 housing themselves, and then expanding 1:02:32 out and doing it for them and their 1:02:33 wife, and then doing it for their 1:02:34 children. And then when you take that 1:02:36 away and you replace it with a check for 1:02:38 which they have no conception of where 1:02:39 it comes from. And then you have a 1:02:41 political class that that feeds into 1:02:44 this by telling them that they shouldn't 1:02:46 display gratitude for this, but that 1:02:48 they should display entitlement because 1:02:49 it was theirs all along. And as long as 1:02:51 they continue to vote for this political 1:02:53 class, they'll ensure that they get it, 1:02:54 but you better show up and vote because 1:02:55 otherwise you won't. These bad people 1:02:58 will take it away from you. 1:02:59 Well, 1:02:59 that's what they put you in that 1:03:00 position to begin with. Bad people made 1:03:02 you poor to begin with. Yes, you you've 1:03:04 you've absolved them. You haven't just 1:03:06 absolved them of any personal 1:03:08 responsibility within life. 1:03:10 You've taken away the purpose and 1:03:12 meaning that is found in providing for 1:03:14 oneself and one's family. 1:03:17 And and you don't get someone that's 1:03:18 happy that then goes to the coffee shop 1:03:21 and and writes poetry, you get someone 1:03:24 that is essentially angry at the system 1:03:27 which they feel has completely 1:03:28 marginalized them and and infantilized 1:03:30 them into nothing more than than a grown 1:03:33 child. I lived that by watching my mom 1:03:36 being an eligibility worker. She was an 1:03:37 eligibility social worker who would go 1:03:40 around trying to find out if people 1:03:42 were eligible or not for social 1:03:45 welfare. And she saw people cheat the 1:03:47 system etc. and they hated her. 1:03:49 And and and they hated the system etc. I 1:03:52 grew up in 1:03:53 exclusively all poor neighborhoods, all 1:03:55 below median income etc. Some of the 1:03:57 poorest neighborhoods 1:03:59 in the country. And 1:04:02 nobody was happy on welfare. 1:04:05 And they were angry, you know, and they 1:04:07 they were mad that they were on 1:04:09 somehow and I was struck by this. This 1:04:11 like 1:04:12 you could get a job. 1:04:14 Some of you you could try harder etc. 1:04:16 right? And 1:04:18 it was aspirational for me and it would 1:04:19 help me because my mom would say to me 1:04:22 you know, 1:04:23 you don't have to be like those around 1:04:24 you. 1:04:26 You know, 1:04:27 you know, and 1:04:29 it I don't know how to fix this but 1:04:31 ultimately when we have these 1:04:31 conversations as I was saying earlier we 1:04:34 all get together and we say yes this is 1:04:35 true. 1:04:36 These things are true. This is reality. 1:04:39 It's not right and we want to change it. 1:04:43 If you don't have control of the media, 1:04:45 if these kinds of ideas don't get out, 1:04:47 Yeah. if 90% of the teachers in America 1:04:50 identify as as liberal 1:04:52 and I I consider myself a radical 1:04:54 moderate as I've said, right? Who has 1:04:56 liberal underpinnings. 1:04:58 Um if 90% of those people in government 1:05:02 view themselves as liberal if in in the 1:05:04 State Department and the 1:05:06 in in law enforcement etc. I mean the 1:05:08 judicial system etc. Um 1:05:12 you're you're not going to change 1:05:13 anything. 1:05:15 That nothing nothing I I I'm I'm looking 1:05:17 for someone to articulate what could we 1:05:19 do in the short term and the long term 1:05:21 that would fundamentally change 1:05:23 perception and Richard has the answer 1:05:25 which is a crisis. I mean it's a it's 1:05:27 the natural order resets whether or not 1:05:30 we like it to and to jump out jump on to 1:05:34 a previous point 1:05:35 what's largely been the case is that we 1:05:37 have really misunderstood the things 1:05:40 that make people happy where there's a 1:05:42 great book named The Happiness 1:05:43 Hypothesis by John Haidt and he goes 1:05:44 through the factors that make people 1:05:46 happy and it's mostly 1:05:48 uh strong interpersonal relationships, 1:05:49 family, religion, and not being in 1:05:52 active poverty. And that's what people 1:05:54 have said since the dawn of time. Go to 1:05:55 any religion and that's what it says. 1:05:57 And we've thought by 1:06:00 the last part of the 20th century was 1:06:02 really a lesson that 1:06:04 we cannot maintain a utopia. We got a 1:06:06 utopia, we destroyed it. 1:06:08 Um C.S. Lewis said you you the only way 1:06:11 you can get heaven is by populating with 1:06:12 angels. But a question I'd like to have 1:06:15 for you Nick is I'm a YouTuber so I look 1:06:17 at that whole side of the world for my 1:06:19 full-time job and 1:06:21 you have a very good campaign for a 1:06:24 politician and a very good social media 1:06:26 presence. 1:06:27 Um 1:06:28 not to gas you up too much and I'm 1:06:30 curious how did you What is true? 1:06:33 What did you go about through trying to 1:06:35 create that? 1:06:37 We didn't focus on politics. 1:06:39 Um 1:06:40 That's a good point. 1:06:41 So 1:06:42 I would say if if you look at if you 1:06:44 look at our um 1:06:45 so 1:06:47 so a lot a lot of this started where you 1:06:49 know I had a couple of floor speech the 1:06:51 floor speeches that went viral. 1:06:52 Um and and that boosted our our 1:06:55 Facebook. We went from like 3,000 people 1:06:57 on Facebook to like 125,000 people in a 1:06:59 relatively short period of time. 1:07:01 But when we've first started like really 1:07:03 getting involved in social media it's 1:07:05 It's like we had you know hundreds of 1:07:06 thousands of followers on Instagram or 1:07:08 YouTube or or Tik Tok or anything like 1:07:10 that. 1:07:11 It had to start somewhere. 1:07:12 Yeah, my my daughter first came to me 1:07:13 and said, "Dad, you should get a Tik Tok 1:07:15 page." This was like early on. I was 1:07:16 like, "I don't even know what the hell 1:07:17 that is." Right? 1:07:18 But uh I said, "Okay, well, we'll do 1:07:20 it." And I I started looking, "Okay, 1:07:21 what's what's on Tik Tok?" 1:07:23 And I'm like, "All right, well, we're 1:07:24 going to try a couple of different 1:07:25 things and and we'll kind of, you know, 1:07:27 try to have fun with this and the whole 1:07:28 deal." 1:07:29 And then all of a sudden, 1:07:31 you know, within, you know, I I don't 1:07:33 know, about 6 months, we had 100,000 1:07:35 followers. 1:07:37 And then in January of, I think it was 1:07:38 2020 or something like that, or or 1:07:40 before that, we or 2021, 1:07:42 we got 1:07:44 100,000 followers in 1 month. 1:07:47 And and a lot of that was just sitting 1:07:49 down and we might be talking about what 1:07:50 was going on in the General Assembly or 1:07:52 we might be talking about things, but we 1:07:53 didn't talk about like individual bills 1:07:55 or get out the vote. Like we didn't do 1:07:56 that stuff. We talked about philosophy. 1:07:58 We talked about things that we thought 1:08:00 was interesting about why we do these. 1:08:03 And then um and then Tik Tok canceled 1:08:05 us. Like shut us down. Like we had a 200 1:08:08 200,000 person account and then they 1:08:10 shut us down and we said, "All right, 1:08:12 well, 1:08:13 Did you use the word China? Oh, we we 1:08:15 talked We had one where we talked about 1:08:17 masks. 1:08:18 And um and it was fascinating cuz that 1:08:20 was actually going on in the General 1:08:21 Assembly. I mean, we were having a 1:08:22 discussion. I was explaining the 1:08:24 discussion we were having and nope, that 1:08:25 we got throttled right after that. And 1:08:27 then shortly after that, I think when 1:08:29 the Supreme Court just when the Supreme 1:08:31 Court justice hearings were going on and 1:08:32 they asked her, "What is a woman?" and 1:08:33 she said, "I'm not a biologist." 1:08:35 I I literally did a post where I said, 1:08:38 "She said she's not a biologist. Is that 1:08:40 her admitting that this question has 1:08:42 something to do with biology?" 1:08:44 And that was enough to be, "Nope, you 1:08:46 violated our guidelines. You violated 1:08:48 our uh 1:08:48 And and the person could have asked, um 1:08:50 "Are you a woman?" Right? Right? I don't 1:08:53 know I I don't know how I'd have to 1:08:54 define myself if 1:08:55 But we 1:08:56 we immediately went over to Instagram. 1:08:57 We said, "Okay, we're going to we're 1:08:58 going to try this over here." And um 1:09:01 I mean, here we are 2 years later and 1:09:03 we're we're going to hit we're going to 1:09:04 cross 900,000 on on Instagram. 1:09:07 Wow. 1:09:07 And and that's not because and and the 1:09:09 same thing with Facebook. We had So, 1:09:11 when we started on Instagram, we had 1:09:12 about nine when we really started like 1:09:13 investing in it, we had about 9,000 1:09:15 followers and that was 2 years ago. And 1:09:17 now we're we'll probably be at 900,000 1:09:18 tomorrow. 1:09:20 And then on Facebook, we started off 1:09:22 with about 6,000 followers and we 1:09:25 crossed 500,000 um I think a couple 1:09:27 months ago. 1:09:29 Or I'm sorry, YouTube. YouTube, we 1:09:30 crossed 500,000 uh last month. That's 1:09:33 very impressive. 1:09:33 And and a lot of 1:09:35 Well, a lot of it was based off of our 1:09:36 short-form content, right? Like you 1:09:38 built your channel on long-form content, 1:09:40 which is the the much harder way to do 1:09:42 it. And and I I would argue in the long 1:09:46 run the much, you know, more effective 1:09:48 way to do it. We built ours off of of 1:09:50 short-form, but what we found is that 1:09:52 people now use the short-form to get to 1:09:53 it. But what did we do different? Every 1:09:55 other politician in the country uses 1:09:58 social media as an extension of their 1:10:00 campaign. Yes. 1:10:01 We don't. We just talk about things that 1:10:03 we think are interesting and and are 1:10:05 funny and we don't take ourselves too 1:10:07 seriously because why would we, 1:10:09 And and we found that that that's really 1:10:11 resonated with people. 1:10:13 And and it's allowed us an opportunity 1:10:15 on YouTube to get into longer-form 1:10:17 conversations and medium-form 1:10:19 conversations. 1:10:20 We're too long, by the way. Well, I No, 1:10:22 I don't think so. I don't think so. I I 1:10:25 I honestly believe that there is there's 1:10:28 an audience for everything and and yeah, 1:10:29 short attention span is a real thing and 1:10:31 that's why shorts and that's why reels 1:10:33 do such a good job and it's been very, 1:10:34 you know, we we've we've recognized 1:10:36 that. But 1:10:38 what one of the biggest forms of content 1:10:39 that we have is our is our 8 to 9 1:10:41 10-minute videos where we talk about I 1:10:43 did one video on why dad should be 1:10:45 dangerous. I did another one on three 1:10:47 things I learned raising daughters. I 1:10:48 did another one on um getting married 1:10:50 young, which is going to come out on 1:10:52 Saturday. Um 1:10:54 And and people are really resonating 1:10:56 with that. And and it's the same thing 1:10:57 like when I first found What If Alt 1:10:59 Hist, 1:11:00 um you know, I was I was watching a lot 1:11:02 of like, you know, Baz Battles and 1:11:03 History Marching Kings and Generals, and 1:11:05 then, you know, YouTube recommends this 1:11:07 to me, and I just went down the rabbit 1:11:09 hole of what I thought was just really 1:11:12 interesting analysis 1:11:15 of these questions and and and 1:11:17 considering how things could develop 1:11:19 based off of looking at the past. And 1:11:21 so, I you know, when when we look at 1:11:23 everything that's going on, and I think 1:11:24 you're absolutely right, when we look at 1:11:25 kind of woke progressivism or whatever 1:11:28 we want to call it, 1:11:29 it does have a stranglehold on a lot of 1:11:31 what we might call the traditional 1:11:33 institutions, the those culturally 1:11:34 shaping institutions, the media, 1:11:36 academia, 1:11:38 arts and entertainment. 1:11:40 And yet, 1:11:42 there's this ability to to push back 1:11:44 Yeah. through the same platforms, which 1:11:47 we all know, YouTube don't love us, 1:11:48 right? Um but there's still the ability 1:11:51 to to be able to offer a a different uh 1:11:55 perspective and a different insight. 1:11:57 And and I think that's really important, 1:11:59 especially for everything you've been 1:12:00 talking about is like, how do we sit 1:12:01 down and have conversations? Well, 1:12:03 again, I'm I'm not going to try to 1:12:05 convince somebody that is absolutely 1:12:06 convinced of something that is 1:12:07 diametrically opposed to what I believe, 1:12:09 they're going to have to go down that 1:12:11 journey, and we'll see how much damage 1:12:12 is done as they do it. But one of the 1:12:14 biggest things we have emphasized over 1:12:16 and over again is whenever we have these 1:12:19 like quasi black pill moments of like, 1:12:21 are we about to head toward national 1:12:22 divorce? Is the dollar going to 1:12:23 collapse? Are we going to hit a 1:12:24 hyperinflation? When 1:12:26 the question is, what do you do about 1:12:27 it? And if you think the next election 1:12:29 cycle is going to save you, you're 1:12:30 wrong, and I say this as an elected 1:12:33 official, it's not going to. It's not 1:12:35 that politics isn't important, it's 1:12:36 still an institution that we should 1:12:37 fight for. 1:12:39 But 1:12:40 what they're pushing, no matter how 1:12:42 powerful they may be today, what they're 1:12:44 pushing doesn't work. 1:12:48 And and inevitably, reality is going to 1:12:50 prove that out, and when it doesn't work 1:12:52 for people, and they're going to learn 1:12:53 it at different stages. Some people 1:12:54 learn it at 14, some people it's 25, 1:12:56 some people it's 35, some people it's 1:12:57 72. 1:12:59 The question is is what do they point to 1:13:01 now? What do they look at? What 1:13:02 alternative have they been given? 1:13:05 And I've been really, really dedicated 1:13:06 to this idea of intentional communities. 1:13:08 Agreed. 1:13:09 Because I think I honestly believe one 1:13:10 of the things that when we say they, you 1:13:12 know, what do we mean by they? But 1:13:14 people 1:13:15 people that are absolutely invested in 1:13:17 this centralization of government power 1:13:19 wants you to believe that this is the 1:13:20 only way that you can affect change. 1:13:23 And it isn't. 1:13:24 The most important decisions that you're 1:13:25 making within your life are going to be 1:13:28 how do you treat your wife? How do you 1:13:29 treat your children? What sort of 1:13:31 capabilities have you developed within 1:13:32 yourself? Because those capabilities are 1:13:35 going to be useful whether we we pull 1:13:38 ourselves out of this tailspin and we 1:13:39 become, you know, the we continue to be 1:13:42 the superpower of the world and a place 1:13:43 of economic growth and opportunity, or 1:13:46 if we end up in a civil war. 1:13:48 You being physically fit and 1:13:49 intellectually capable and and having 1:13:52 useful skill sets which are socially and 1:13:53 economically viable, 1:13:55 that is beneficial whether the whole 1:13:57 world goes to hell tomorrow or or we we 1:14:00 And you can control those 1:14:01 And you can control those things. Start 1:14:03 focusing on the things that you can 1:14:05 control as an individual, as part of a 1:14:07 family, and then part of of a community. 1:14:08 And I will tell you one of the places I 1:14:10 found it which I never would have 1:14:11 expected 4 years ago. 1:14:14 And this is just for me. I'm not saying 1:14:15 this is for everyone. 1:14:17 But I started really being fascinated by 1:14:19 the homesteading community. 1:14:21 But just fascinated by it. 1:14:23 Um 1:14:24 not because 1:14:25 Homesteading? You know. 1:14:26 Homesteading. Yeah, not because I was 1:14:27 going to go totally off grid and never 1:14:29 go to the grocery store again, but 1:14:31 because when I'm going into this grocery 1:14:33 store and I'm seeing nothing there, 1:14:36 and that's a pretty scary prospect when 1:14:37 it's something you've always been able 1:14:38 to to depend upon. 1:14:40 And it was like, okay, 1:14:42 I can sit here and I can complain about 1:14:43 this. And and that's rightfully so. Or I 1:14:47 can work towards self-sufficiency. 1:14:48 But what can I do about it? Right? Even 1:14:50 if it's not self-sufficiency, how can I 1:14:52 put my family in a position to where 1:14:55 if if things go really really bad, I can 1:14:57 still provide food for them. And then in 1:15:00 the process of doing that, I learned 1:15:01 that there was this whole community of 1:15:03 other people that for a variety of 1:15:05 different motivations got into this and 1:15:08 could not be more 1:15:10 encouraged about helping you succeed. 1:15:13 And and it was that sense of community 1:15:15 within that where it was like, "Gosh, I 1:15:17 really like these people." And we have a 1:15:18 lot of shared 1:15:19 seem happy as well, right? Thank you. 1:15:21 Yes. Yes. Okay. So, they did studies 1:15:24 with mice who are in pain. And if you 1:15:26 let the mice mouse run on a wheel, it 1:15:28 lives longer. If it just sits there and 1:15:31 lies there in pain, it dies much quicker 1:15:33 than if it can do something about it. 1:15:35 Yes. And And so, if I walk into the 1:15:37 grocery store and I see the shelves are 1:15:39 empty and I'm complaining about that, 1:15:41 then that's the that's the mouse lying 1:15:42 there doing nothing. The one that gets 1:15:44 up and figures out how to make a garden 1:15:45 Yeah. 1:15:46 in their backyard, etc., is going to 1:15:48 say, "I still have the same issue. I'm 1:15:49 still worried about this stuff, but I 1:15:50 can do something about it." Yes. You 1:15:52 You're doing something within your 1:15:54 control. Now, that doesn't mean you 1:15:55 still don't operate corporately with 1:15:58 other people to affect other issues. But 1:16:00 But most of the world's problems are 1:16:02 solved by millions of free people 1:16:04 solving their own problems as opposed to 1:16:06 granting authority to some sort of 1:16:07 centralized political power to hopefully 1:16:10 solve it for us because that generally 1:16:11 doesn't produce the results you 1:16:13 is valuable, Yeah. then shouldn't we 1:16:15 have an infinite number of programs? 1:16:16 Yes. 1:16:17 Well, and I I heard one I heard one 1:16:19 There was this really funny This is 1:16:20 going to sound so lame. Um 1:16:24 I I don't know if you've ever seen this. 1:16:25 I think it was put out by uh Foundation 1:16:28 for Economic Education or something 1:16:29 else, but they did a um 1:16:31 I'm I'm I'm embarrassed saying this. It 1:16:34 was a rap battle 1:16:36 between um 1:16:37 Friedrich Hayek I want to see this. 1:16:40 and Keynes. 1:16:41 Keynes. And it was incredibly well done. 1:16:44 Incredibly well done. But the one thing 1:16:46 that he says in that is he goes, 1:16:48 I'm not saying we shouldn't have a plan. 1:16:50 My question is is who plans for who? Do 1:16:52 I plan for myself or do I leave it to 1:16:53 you? And it was the idea that when when 1:16:56 millions of people are planning for the 1:16:58 individual things that motivate them 1:17:00 within life, the individual needs that 1:17:01 they have, it's far more directed 1:17:04 at the issues, the problems they need to 1:17:06 solve, and it's far less likely to have 1:17:10 really disastrous ripple effects if they 1:17:12 get it wrong. This is one of the and so 1:17:15 Yeah. This is one of the biggest reasons 1:17:16 why I think the right will beat the left 1:17:19 in the coming culture war is that I look 1:17:20 at the digital right versus the digital 1:17:22 left. Everything the digital left argues 1:17:24 for is that you cannot do anything. And 1:17:27 so it creates a mass culture of 1:17:30 inability. And on the right, you look at 1:17:32 that and people will say, "Okay, how do 1:17:34 I grow my own food? What's the dating 1:17:37 climate like? How do I 1:17:39 deal and study philosophy by myself in a 1:17:42 crazy world?" And so you see this very 1:17:44 stark difference between people who say 1:17:47 the world sucks and let's establish 1:17:51 let's figure out who's at fault. And a 1:17:54 group who says, "I don't care who's at 1:17:56 fault really. I need to figure out what 1:17:57 works for me as an individual." 1:18:00 Yeah. 1:18:01 Well, I will I will tell you this. The 1:18:04 we we started we we have a community 1:18:07 chat around our page and we decided back 1:18:09 in June to do like a just a 90-day 1:18:12 improvement program. And and the way we 1:18:14 we looked at it was we said, "Okay, 1:18:15 we're going to look at this we're going 1:18:18 to improve physically, spiritually, 1:18:20 emotionally, intellectually, 1:18:21 professionally. 1:18:23 And and we're going to Okay, so what 1:18:24 does that mean? All right. So like from 1:18:25 spiritual component, if you're a person 1:18:27 of faith, all right, you're going to 1:18:28 you're going to you're going to dive 1:18:29 into that more and like with your church 1:18:30 and whatnot. And you're not going to 1:18:32 just consume. You're going to figure out 1:18:33 how you contribute. That was another big 1:18:35 thing that we talked about. Not just 1:18:36 consuming, also contributing. 1:18:38 And then intellectually, okay, what 1:18:39 books are we going to read? What things 1:18:41 are we going to watch? What podcasts are 1:18:42 we going to listen to to make ourselves 1:18:43 more intellectually formidable? 1:18:45 Emotionally and relationship-wise, what 1:18:47 sort of proactive measures are we going 1:18:49 to take in our relationships with our 1:18:50 our you know, if it's if you're totally 1:18:53 single, okay, how are you going to 1:18:54 foster those relationships? If you're 1:18:56 married, you're going to commit to date 1:18:57 night. If you got kids, you're going to 1:18:59 do something special with them that that 1:19:00 you can build these memories and and 1:19:02 things with. And then capabilities. You 1:19:04 know, on professional capabilities. 1:19:06 One of the coolest things 1:19:08 We we we've homeschooled our kids. 1:19:11 And one of the coolest experiences that 1:19:12 my son and I had was we went to a 1:19:15 homeschool fair one day and there was a 1:19:17 guy there doing blacksmithing. 1:19:20 And and he did a he did a course on it. 1:19:22 So, we'd sign up for the course and we 1:19:24 went there and we'd learn how to do 1:19:27 basic blacksmithing. 1:19:28 And then for like a few hundred bucks 1:19:32 we got a little forge and an anvil and I 1:19:34 can tell you right now, this is another 1:19:36 thing I think that is so screwed up 1:19:37 about the government administration of 1:19:38 education. 1:19:40 The government would tell my kid that he 1:19:42 has a hard time sitting still for 6 1:19:44 hours a day in a classroom and doing 1:19:46 rote memorization. Yeah, well, no 1:19:48 kidding, he's a boy. 1:19:49 Right? But I can give him a task where I 1:19:52 say, I want you to make this or I want 1:19:54 you to do this and he will gleefully 1:19:56 pound on steel for 8 hours 1:19:59 and and love every second of it. 1:20:02 And and so yeah, to your point, it's 1:20:05 about this idea of developing these 1:20:07 capabilities to make you more 1:20:08 formidable. 1:20:10 And and I think it's and and it is so 1:20:12 great to go into our community chat and 1:20:14 read people and and or read the updates 1:20:17 people give on, hey, I did this and I 1:20:19 did this and I started off small over 1:20:20 here, but I'm being really aggressive 1:20:22 over here and 1:20:23 finding new ways that they just feel 1:20:26 they feel empowered at the end of it. 1:20:28 Yeah, they're not they're not powerless. 1:20:29 Yes. Oh, it's it's it's it's a great 1:20:31 thing to watch. It really is. That's a 1:20:32 very positive message and I and I 1:20:34 appreciate you doing that cuz for me I'm 1:20:35 always saying how do we 1:20:37 put this into action? How do we 1:20:37 operationalize this? And that that's a 1:20:39 very concrete way to do it. Appreciate 1:20:41 that you're doing that. I know we should 1:20:42 probably wrap up. We try to keep this to 1:20:43 an hour. I think we're a little over. 1:20:45 This It's been fantastic visiting with 1:20:47 you. We think you're brilliant. 1:20:48 We're We're I'm thrilled that you're in 1:20:50 politics. Guys like you with your vision 1:20:53 and your purpose are being servant 1:20:56 leaders. That's really important. So 1:20:58 Well, no, I I really appreciate 1:20:59 Virginia is lucky to have you. Well, th- 1:21:00 thank you. Thank you. Some Virginians 1:21:02 think that, others not so much. But um 1:21:04 but I will say this, the work that you 1:21:06 guys do on Common Ground, the work that 1:21:08 you do on What If Alt-History, um if 1:21:11 you've ever wondered, and I'm sure you 1:21:12 I'm sure you don't have to, but if 1:21:13 you've ever wondered if it's having an 1:21:14 impact, it absolutely is. Thank you. 1:21:17 Um I can just say within within my 1:21:19 immediate circle, I I 1:21:21 the the content and and the work that 1:21:23 you put into it, um I mean, it really is 1:21:27 it really is incredible. It's incredibly 1:21:28 interesting. Thank you. 1:21:30 Um you know, there's a lot of 1:21:31 What If Alt-History. I have a 1:21:32 congressman friend here from Texas, and 1:21:34 I was We were talking the other day and 1:21:37 he somehow noticed right away he goes, 1:21:38 "Oh, I I watch all his stuff." 1:21:40 Yeah. Well, and here here's what I'll 1:21:42 say. And we've actually we've actually 1:21:44 ran into this when we we've had people 1:21:45 contact us for sponsorships and stuff 1:21:47 like that. And we've always said, "If 1:21:49 you're trying to sell a product with us 1:21:52 because you're patriotic, don't bother. 1:21:55 You need to produce a good product. And 1:21:57 and one of the things I I've because if 1:21:59 you're going to throw the flag on it, if 1:22:01 you're going to throw an ideology on it, 1:22:02 well, then it better be good. 1:22:04 Um and one of the things I really 1:22:06 appreciate about what you guys do is 1:22:08 it's not I don't I don't just like it 1:22:10 cuz I agree with it. I like it because 1:22:12 it's good. 1:22:14 Right? It is objectively good. 1:22:16 And and there's there's something 1:22:18 beautiful in that that I just really 1:22:20 appreciate. I just you know, again, I 1:22:22 wanted you guys to hear it from me that 1:22:23 our whole team has been impacted by the 1:22:25 work that you've done and really 1:22:26 appreciate it. You're too kind. So 1:22:28 Richard, what would you how would you 1:22:30 wrap this up? Oh, it was a pleasure to 1:22:31 meet you Nick. Thank you so much. 1:22:34 Any final statements? 1:22:37 No, just thank you for the work that 1:22:38 you're doing. Again, we really 1:22:40 appreciate the opportunity. I will say 1:22:41 this, if we do ever get a chance to do 1:22:43 this in the future, I've got to have 1:22:45 I've got to have Christian with me on 1:22:46 this. He's a little bit jealous right 1:22:49 now. I'm going to go and tease him about 1:22:50 this because he's a big fan of your 1:22:52 guys' work and so 1:22:53 Well, I recommend you have Richard on 1:22:55 your show. Oh, we would love to. We 1:22:56 would absolutely love to. 1:22:59 No, that'd be great. That'd be great. 1:23:00 All right. You have a wonderful evening. 1:23:02 God bless. Look forward to crossing 1:23:04 paths again. You as well.