0:00 how to seduce anyone. 0:01 >> People who are insecure have a very hard 0:04 time seducing. So the first quality in 0:07 all these form of seductions is to try 0:09 and get rid of your insecurities. And 0:11 the way you get rid of your insecurities 0:13 is when you're with people, you're not 0:15 thinking about yourself. You're focused 0:18 on them. What they want, what they need, 0:20 what their weaknesses are. You give that 0:22 to people, the world will [music] open 0:24 up to you. Tell me, what is the most 0:27 seductive quality somebody can possess? 0:29 You have to have some skills with words 0:31 and language. Women are very susceptible 0:35 to words. [music] 0:36 When they hear somebody talking well, 0:38 who's funny, who's witty, who's good 0:40 with [music] compliments, etc., it has a 0:42 very seductive power. 0:44 >> What is the difference between people 0:45 who are remembered and people who get 0:48 forgotten in a day? 0:49 >> The game is to make [music] people think 0:51 about you when you are not there in 0:53 front of them. So, if there's a woman 0:55 and you're out on a date and [music] she 0:57 goes home and she's thinking about you, 0:59 you've seduced her. So, you need to 1:01 create a little bit [music] of mystery 1:03 about yourself. 1:04 >> Robert Green, the author of the 48 laws 1:07 of power, the art of seduction and 1:09 mastery. And in this episode, we get 1:11 inside his mind and uncover the rules of 1:13 power, influence, and human behavior 1:16 that could make you the most powerful 1:18 person in the [music] room. Human desire 1:22 is very much viral. [music] We want what 1:25 other people have. You never had a 1:27 girlfriend. Women really aren't 1:29 interested in you. But if they see you 1:31 surrounded by [music] other people who 1:33 are attractive, it makes them interested 1:35 in you as well. 1:36 >> What are small [music] behaviors that 1:39 people are unconsciously doing and it's 1:41 making them appear weak. 1:42 >> People who talk a lot, who are always 1:44 blathering about what [music] they 1:46 think, about their emotion, that makes 1:48 you look weak. I noticed in meetings 1:50 [music] the person who talks less but 1:53 has a commanding presence to him or her 1:55 is kind of [music] emanates power and 1:58 then when they do say something 1:59 everyone's listening what did they 2:01 [music] say? So talking all of the time 2:03 makes you feel weak. How do you become 2:05 the most powerful person in the room? 2:08 >> Well um how do you not feel powerless 2:10 and insecure in front of a very powerful 2:12 person? 2:13 >> I tell you and I know this because I 2:15 have to interact sometimes [music] with 2:16 powerful people. You said we all are 2:19 attracted towards dark traits. What are 2:22 these [music] dark traits? 2:30 I have a small favor to ask you. I need 2:32 you to subscribe to our channel. The 2:34 more subscribers we have, the better and 2:37 bigger guests we can bring and provide 2:39 you more value through these 2:41 conversations. And the full audio 2:43 experience of this show is also 2:45 available on Spotify where you can 2:47 follow us and listen to the new episodes 2:49 as well. Now let's get into the episode. 2:56 One of the first things in my head comes 2:59 is 3:01 how do I become the most attractive 3:03 person in the room so that I start 3:04 attracting opportunities. Right? And I 3:06 often ask myself the same question which 3:09 you answered in your books but I want to 3:11 ask you again. How to seduce anyone? 3:15 [laughter] 3:18 >> Well um is it seducing a woman? Is it 3:22 seducing an audience? Is it seducing the 3:25 world? Is it s What is it you're What 3:28 kind of seduction are you? 3:29 >> Let's go one by one. All three. 3:30 [laughter] 3:33 >> Seduction is a psychological process. 3:35 It's not a physical thing. It's pure 3:38 psychology. And one thing we can say for 3:41 sure that people who are insecure 3:45 do not have a very hard time seducing. 3:48 It makes if you've ever had this 3:50 experience where you're around somebody 3:53 who you can sense is very insecure. It 3:56 makes you a bit insecure, it makes you 3:58 feel odd, right? 4:00 But if you're around somebody who's 4:02 confident, who feels secure, who feels 4:05 powerful and accomplish things, yes, you 4:07 might be a little bit intimidated, but 4:09 it also is very seductive to be around 4:12 that person. You could kind of catch 4:14 some of their confidence. So the first 4:17 quality in all these form of seductions 4:20 is to try and get rid of your 4:22 insecurities. 4:23 And the way you get rid of your 4:25 insecurities is when you're with people, 4:29 you're not thinking about yourself. 4:31 You're focused on them, right? You get 4:34 outside of yourself. People think 4:37 seduction is evil. The word is evil, but 4:39 it's not. It's a form of therapy and 4:42 it's actually a form of being social. 4:44 You get outside of all of your problems, 4:46 all of your worries, all of your 4:47 anxieties, and you focus on the other 4:50 person, what they want, what they need, 4:53 what their weaknesses are, what they're 4:55 not getting from life, and you give that 4:57 to them. And so getting outside of 5:00 yourself and all of your worries and 5:01 concerns, projecting a feeling of 5:04 strength and confidence and focusing on 5:07 their spirit and getting inside of that 5:10 and giving them. Think of how rare it is 5:13 in your life or anybody's life that 5:16 people recognize you and validate who 5:19 you are and understand what your 5:23 psychology is and kind of, you know, get 5:26 inside your world and are interested in 5:29 it and think that there's something 5:31 great about you. It hardly ever happens. 5:33 True. Because everybody's thinking about 5:35 themselves. 5:37 >> You give that to people, the world will 5:39 open up to you. like so be interested in 5:43 the other person and you said find out 5:46 what do they need, right? How do I find 5:48 out what another person needs in a 5:52 social setting? 5:54 >> Well, if you're talking about individual 5:55 people, 5:56 >> yes, 5:57 >> um it's you can't do it like in one go. 6:00 You you'd have it takes a little bit of 6:02 time. We think so much in words and it 6:06 we're in our heads a lot. But there's an 6:08 animal part of our nature, right? That's 6:11 very powerful. If you stop you stop your 6:14 thoughts and you stop thinking about 6:17 yourself and you absorb yourself in the 6:20 energy of the other person, you start 6:23 picking up signs and signals that are 6:26 nonverbal, that are physical, that come 6:29 from who they are. 6:31 You say something and their eyes light 6:33 up and they get very excited. Ah, you 6:37 know that that's something that that 6:39 they're missing that they want that they 6:41 need that no one's giving them, right? 6:43 But you're not going to pick up that 6:45 signal if you're thinking about 6:46 yourself. Do they like me? Do I look 6:49 good? Am I wearing the right clothes? 6:51 You won't pick up their signals. So, but 6:54 you know, Raj, it's not easy to cut off 6:57 internal chatter. That takes practice 7:00 listening to people and not having all 7:02 that inner chatter and focusing on them 7:04 and slowly it'll become a skill that you 7:06 can develop. It's the most important 7:08 skill that you'll have for success in 7:11 life for seduction or for any kind of 7:12 power 7:13 >> to shut down inner chatter. Is there a 7:16 practice or a trick that somebody could 7:18 practice in their life on daily basis to 7:20 learn that? Well, I tell people um like 7:25 [snorts] 7:26 go out in the world in in something that 7:28 you do every day like you go to the 7:30 supermarket every day and you buy uh 7:34 whatever it is in here in the States, 7:37 you go to the counter and you buy fish 7:39 or meat from somebody behind a counter, 7:41 right? You see them every day, but 7:44 they're not a person to you, right? And 7:46 I say, pick somebody out like they're in 7:48 your life that you see often but you 7:52 never pay any attention to, right? And 7:55 try to think of what their world is like 7:58 as you talk to them. Like imagine their 8:02 apartment and where they live and their 8:05 day-to-day life and what their family is 8:09 like and what their childhood must have 8:11 been like. Of course, you're not going 8:13 to figure it out. It's not going to be 8:14 accurate. 8:16 But it's fun. We don't do things unless 8:19 they're fun, right? 8:21 >> Yeah. 8:22 >> So going out in the world and thinking 8:24 it's like a movie and I'm going to 8:26 figure out what these characters are 8:27 like, what their world is like is 8:30 actually entertaining. 8:32 And I because I've been doing it my 8:35 whole life and maybe it is who I am. I'm 8:38 always doing that with other people. 8:40 Tell me what is the most seductive 8:44 quality somebody can possess? 8:46 >> Well, I'll tell you. Uh, I lived in 8:49 Paris many years ago, well before you 8:51 were born. Uh, I was like 21 years old. 8:55 >> I was working in a hotel. Uh, I was a 8:58 receptionist in a hotel. And there was 9:01 this man who was from Brazil, very tall, 9:04 very handsome. He was the most brilliant 9:07 seducer I've ever seen. Right. And I 9:12 remember once he had all these women 9:14 were attracted to him. He he was so easy 9:17 for him to seduce. Um but he never was 9:20 faithful, right? He was always cheating 9:23 on whatever who it was. 9:26 I was walking down the street with him 9:29 and this woman came up to him very angry 9:33 because she saw he was with another 9:35 woman and that implying that he was 9:37 cheating on her. She got she got really 9:40 angry. She started yelling and he stood 9:43 there and he was so calm and he didn't 9:46 get angry and he didn't get apologizing. 9:50 So, oh, I'm so sorry. He just stood 9:52 there and he was he was understanding. 9:55 He was listening to her and he had this 9:58 kind of calmness and this coolness about 10:00 him and he he expressed regret for this 10:04 etc. But he wasn't weak and muing and 10:07 apologetic, right? And she just melted. 10:11 She just melted. She she couldn't resist 10:13 it. So the point I'm saying is the lack 10:17 of defensiveness in a person is 10:20 incredibly seductive, right? So most 10:25 people that you meet are all defensive 10:27 and closed and resistant, right? They're 10:30 so worried and so trying to protect 10:32 themselves, right? 10:34 You meet somebody and they don't have 10:36 that quality and they it's like almost 10:39 like they don't have an ego, right? and 10:41 they're not defensive 10:43 and they're not resisting you. It draws 10:45 the same quality in you as well. 10:49 There was an actor in Hollywood named 10:51 Errol Flynn who it was like the he was 10:56 women just dreamed about him. He was 10:58 very handsome. He was just a very 11:00 seductive male figure and he was an 11:04 incredible seducer. He probably slept 11:07 with over 5,000 women and he died when 11:10 he was 50 years old because he was an 11:12 alcoholic. [gasps] But I found a quote 11:15 from a woman. I was trying to figure out 11:17 why was he so seductive. And the quote 11:20 from this woman was being around him was 11:24 like having drunk three martinis. 11:28 You just felt so relaxed. He made you 11:31 feel so relaxed. He had this animal 11:34 presence. He wasn't nervous. He wasn't 11:36 defensive. He wasn't all tight. 11:39 It just was like drinking an like a 11:41 martini. He just made you relax. It's 11:44 not an easy quality. A lot of people 11:46 don't have it, but it's by far the most 11:48 seductive quality you can. 11:50 >> So, let's say if there are two people, 11:51 right? One 11:54 becomes very memorable and seductive in 11:58 one room and the other person is also 12:01 let's say it's social is great but other 12:03 person becomes instantly forgettable. 12:06 What is the difference between people 12:07 who are remembered and people who get 12:11 forgotten in a day? 12:14 >> Well um I' I'd go around this question 12:17 from a different angle. So, um, 12:21 seduction is a game where you're trying 12:23 to make the other person think about you 12:26 when you're not there, right? So, if 12:29 there's a woman and you out on a date 12:32 and she goes home and she's thinking 12:34 about you, you've seduced her. If she 12:38 goes home and she's kind of thinking 12:40 about you a little bit, but she's also 12:42 thinking about other people, her job, 12:44 you haven't really succeeded. So the 12:46 game is to make people think about you 12:49 when you are not there in front of them. 12:51 Right. 12:53 So I wrote a whole book about that and 12:55 what you need to do. 12:56 >> Yeah. 12:56 >> But you need to create a little bit of 12:58 mystery about yourself. 13:00 >> Like you said something that's kind of 13:03 provocative that they don't quite 13:05 understand and it makes them go home. 13:07 They think about you. What did you mean? 13:09 You have qualities 13:12 that I had a chapter in seduction called 13:14 mixed signals. Sending mixed signals. 13:17 You appear to be something very strong, 13:20 but you send a sign of there's something 13:22 else going on inside of you that's quite 13:24 different. Right? So, you're a man. You 13:27 feel very you come across as very 13:29 masculine and strong, but you send a 13:32 signal that there's something about you 13:34 that's almost feminine where you're you 13:36 have you're aesthetic. you're interested 13:38 in flowers or whatever. The woman goes 13:41 home goes, "Hm, what an interesting 13:43 character. I've never met anybody like 13:45 that. He's he's very masculine, but he 13:48 has this other side to him." You know, 13:50 so she's thinking about you. 13:52 >> So, if you don't if you're just trying 13:54 to be yourself, if you don't understand 13:56 the game, if you don't put any effort 13:59 into it, people won't remember anything 14:02 about you. 14:04 They'll only remember you when you're 14:06 there in front of them. But when you 14:08 leave the room, when they're not there, 14:10 forget it. And that's the whole game is 14:12 making them think about you when you're 14:14 not there. 14:15 >> Give me one more example. I love this. 14:17 This is how to make people think about 14:20 you when you're not in the room. 14:22 >> Well, I mean, uh, as I said, these are 14:25 all things in the art of seduction. So, 14:28 um, when I first met the woman that I'm 14:31 with now, 14:34 um, was a while ago, right, before I 14:36 wrote The Art of Seduction, um, 14:40 I we had gone on a date, but nothing 14:44 really came of it. Okay? And so, I 14:47 didn't know if she was interested in me. 14:50 My birthday was coming up and I happened 14:53 to have at that time I still do. I had a 14:56 lot of female friends who were very 14:58 beautiful, right? And I was going to 15:01 have a birthday party at this restaurant 15:04 and there would be four or five of these 15:06 very beautiful women there. I very 15:08 clearly invited her to come to this 15:11 party afterwards, you know, when we were 15:13 having dessert and everything. So she 15:16 would see me surrounded by attractive 15:20 women who were interested in me, right? 15:23 So knowing that somebody that is 15:26 attracted to other people is very 15:29 seductive, particularly to women who can 15:31 be very competitive that way, but it 15:33 works with men as well. So the sense 15:37 that nobody desires you, that nobody you 15:40 you never had a girlfriend, women really 15:42 aren't interested in you makes the other 15:45 person wonder. But if they see you 15:48 surrounded by other people who are 15:50 attractive and know that you that there 15:53 are other people interested in you, it 15:55 makes them interested in you as well. 15:58 And then they will go home and they will 16:00 think about you because they will be 16:01 competitive. 16:03 So human desire is very much viral. We 16:08 want what other people have. If you pass 16:12 by a restaurant, 16:14 you you want to have dinner 16:17 and it looks good, but there's nobody in 16:19 the restaurant. H I don't know. But the 16:23 food's good, but you don't want to go in 16:24 there. You pass by this other 16:26 restaurant, which might have mediocre 16:28 food, but it's 20 people are in there. 16:30 They're all laughing. They're drinking. 16:31 They're having a great time. I'll go in 16:33 there, right? Because other people are 16:36 enjoying it. And and our desire is 16:38 viral. It's contagious. 16:41 So if you make other people feel like 16:43 you are desired by others, they will go 16:45 home and they will be thinking about you 16:47 because they're competitive. They're 16:49 going to want to be one of those people 16:50 that desire you as well. See, that's 16:52 true. But somebody who's not desired at 16:55 all, someone who is not in demand is 16:58 not, it doesn't look like that man or a 17:00 woman is being desired by anyone. How 17:03 can they manufacture this? How can they 17:04 actually do this? Because their first 17:06 problem is that nobody's interested in 17:08 them. How can they make other people? 17:10 >> You can't make somebody like that into a 17:12 great seducer. You have to work at it. 17:15 So it's not like it's not like people 17:18 are born great at this game, right? The 17:21 man I mentioned in Paris, it wasn't 17:23 that, okay, he was handsome. I I I grant 17:25 you that, but he had been working on it 17:27 for a long time. He understood the 17:29 psychology of it. So, you have to if you 17:32 understand the psychology of it, you're 17:34 going to go, "All right, I have to find 17:38 people have I have to get people 17:40 interested in me, right? I have to get 17:43 women looking at me. What is the 17:45 qualities that I can have that will do 17:47 that?" Right? You have to put some 17:49 effort into. You have to work on it. 17:50 >> True. 17:51 >> So, 17:52 nobody is born with, you know, all these 17:56 women coming to them and and looking 17:58 attractive. You work at it. You I built 18:01 those friendships over years because I 18:04 happen to like women and I I was a rake 18:06 back then. But it took work. It took 18:08 effort. It took effort to be desired by 18:11 other people, right? You have to have 18:14 some skills with words and language. 18:17 Women are very susceptible to words. 18:21 When they hear somebody talking well, 18:23 who's funny, who's witty, who's good 18:26 with compliments, etc., it has a very 18:29 seductive power. 18:30 >> True. 18:31 >> Men, their weakness is the visuals, is 18:34 the looks, is the physical aspect of the 18:36 woman. Right? So, you have to be aware 18:39 of the psychology of what's going on and 18:42 play to those things and build up those 18:44 qualities in yourself. You're not born 18:46 that way. I can't take somebody who 18:49 feels like they're a loser, that nobody 18:52 likes them. I can't instantly turn them 18:54 around. They have to work at it, right? 18:57 And I've helped people before who've 18:59 been in that situation and slowly we 19:02 build up confidence. We get rid of the 19:04 insecurities. 19:06 step by step. If you're that person that 19:08 you mention, if you start getting rid of 19:10 your insecurities, if you do things that 19:13 will make you confident and sometimes 19:15 you can fake a little bit of confidence, 19:17 you will start attracting interest, you 19:19 will start attracting people and then 19:21 you will build some momentum and then 19:23 the things that I'm talking about about 19:25 creating triangles of desire will start 19:28 to be powerful and effective. Right. 19:30 >> True. True. You know, you you gave an 19:33 example of this Brazilian man. You said 19:36 that he was unfaithful 19:39 [snorts] and yet 19:42 women would engage with him, right? Yet 19:45 women would will melt in front of him 19:49 and we all have seen this, right? The 19:52 kind people, the generous, the most 19:53 nicest people, they don't end up getting 19:56 [laughter] a lot of lot of women, right? 19:59 Why do you think like why nice people 20:01 don't 20:02 >> Well, it's not completely true. Some 20:05 nice people can be very seductive, but 20:07 if you're too nice, it comes across as 20:10 weakness and it comes across as 20:12 insecurity. 20:14 So, we talked about mixed signals. 20:18 You're a genuinely nice person. You 20:20 can't help it. That's who you are. But 20:22 if you can mix in something that's a 20:24 little bit harsh, that doesn't seem 20:27 quite so nice, that will have some 20:30 seductive power. But, you know, if 20:34 you're if you're so if you're so weak 20:37 and you're so nice, people will wonder 20:40 about you. What's wrong with you? Right? 20:43 But so like with with the rake like this 20:46 man the Brazilian man women knew that he 20:50 was never faithful but it's always in 20:52 the back of their mind maybe I will be 20:55 the one that will finally make this guy 20:57 faithful right that competitive interest 21:01 in the other person. Why? Like why the 21:03 person who's faithful you don't you're 21:05 not attracted to that? 21:08 Because 21:10 there's a side of people that feels that 21:12 there's something weak about you. So if 21:16 this man is desired by all these other 21:18 women, 21:19 well, there must be something very 21:21 interesting about him. There must be 21:22 something very attractive about him. 21:24 There was an English poet named Lord 21:26 Byron who was like Eduardo, this 21:29 Brazilian man. He was extremely 21:32 unfaithful 21:33 and there was a reputation that he was 21:37 kind of evil, right? Did he actually 21:41 sleep with his sister? Did he actually 21:44 maybe kill somebody? It made them really 21:47 really interested in him. That hard 21:49 edge, they're very makes them very 21:51 attracted to it. men. If the woman is so 21:55 soft and so sentimental and so nice, 21:58 something feels wrong about it. But you 22:01 give me a woman who's got a little bit 22:03 of an edge to it, who maybe isn't so 22:06 nice to me, who feels like there is 22:09 something slightly dangerous about it, 22:11 that is incredibly, incredibly 22:13 seductive. that very nice woman. You may 22:16 want to marry her and have children with 22:18 her, but it's not the same thing as a 22:20 seduction, as a woman who's very 22:22 seductive. But have you noticed that the 22:26 woman that you're describing, u woman 22:28 who's nice, she is most trusted, she's 22:33 genuinely a good person, often get 22:36 played the most. 22:38 >> Yeah. 22:40 Well, because they're they're very naive 22:43 and they're very trusting and their 22:44 trustingness makes them open to the 22:47 worst kind of man, you know. But also, 22:50 I'll make this point. 22:53 >> People are secretly drawn to what is 22:57 dark and transgressive. So, we all 22:59 pretend to be interested in virtue and 23:02 being so nice and loving and caring and 23:04 doing all the great things that make us 23:06 virtuous 23:08 >> because that's the culture we live in. 23:10 We're social animals. But at the same 23:12 time, we're attracted to the dark side, 23:15 to what's transgressive, to what has a 23:17 little touch of evil to it, right? And 23:21 because there's so much pressure in our 23:23 world 23:24 >> to be so nice all of the time that we 23:27 get kind of sick of it, right? And so 23:30 the woman who is very nice and sweet and 23:34 trusting secretly she is drawn to the 23:38 rake, to the rebel, to the man who's 23:40 going to hurt her. She doesn't want to 23:42 be hurt, don't get me wrong, but she's 23:45 secretly drawn to that man who is not 23:48 like her at all. Right? 23:50 >> [snorts] 23:50 >> Then 23:52 is like being good or like being a good 23:56 person a big disadvantage in today's 23:58 world? 23:59 >> No. I mean uh it depends on how you play 24:02 it. I mean 24:04 >> see because you said a good naive 24:06 [clears throat] woman gets played. A 24:08 good man doesn't usually end up getting 24:10 a lot of attraction. So technically a 24:13 good being a good person it looks like a 24:15 disadvantage to me. 24:17 No, I would never I would never say 24:19 that. We're talking about seduction in 24:22 the realm of seduction. But in the world 24:25 when it's like politics or it's dealing 24:27 with your family or dealing with 24:29 friends, I I would never say that being 24:32 a bad person or being mean to people is 24:35 good. I I I I don't like that quality in 24:38 people. But when it comes to love and 24:40 seduction and sex and the physicality, 24:43 an edge, all I'm talking about is you 24:45 have an edge, 24:47 >> right? If you're just all soft and 24:50 cuddly and you have no edge, that isn't 24:53 a seductive quality because we live in a 24:57 culture and a time where it's kind of 25:00 woke and people are supposed to appear 25:01 virtuous and good. A lot of people who 25:04 appear nice and virtuous aren't inside 25:07 don't have that quality. They're 25:09 actually not like that. They're covering 25:11 up something else going on inside of 25:14 them. 25:14 >> Yeah. 25:14 >> So, the real quality is is much 25:17 different. When I worked in Hollywood, 25:21 there were it's a world where everyone's 25:23 supposed to be so liberal, so nice, so 25:25 wonderful, so woke. But they're not like 25:28 that at all. you close the door, they're 25:30 yelling at their secretary, they're 25:32 screwing people around, they're being 25:33 manipulative, but nobody ever sees that. 25:36 So, there are a lot of people who are 25:38 fake with their virtue, you know. Do you 25:41 feel and that that's something that I 25:43 think and that's my belief based on what 25:45 we just spoke about. I feel being little 25:49 evil and playing these games or 25:50 manipulating 25:52 is a leverage in environments where 25:55 there's anonymity. And what I mean by 25:58 that is when you're in a big city, when 26:01 you meet new people every day, when 26:02 you're on dating apps, when you're just 26:05 like there's any number of people and 26:08 you don't have to meet them again and 26:09 again, probably manipulation and evil 26:12 games takes you a little further and 26:14 makes people more attractive towards 26:16 you. But when you're in an environment 26:19 where there's lot of social and 26:21 community around you where you have to 26:22 see the same person again and again and 26:24 again then their manipulation usually 26:27 becomes a disadvantage because the word 26:30 travels all around and people know you 26:33 and once they know that you're a liar 26:35 you're manipulative your chances of 26:37 succeeding in that small environment 26:39 actually reduces. 26:40 >> I don't disagree with you but there's 26:43 there's um it's it's a subtle game. It's 26:46 not like just black and white. So let's 26:49 say you you enter an office and you have 26:52 a job and there are 40 people there, 26:54 right? That's a pretty small limited 26:57 community. Okay? 26:58 >> And inevitably in an environment of 40 27:01 people, there will be one or two 27:04 manipulators, 27:06 power players, people who understand the 27:08 48 laws of power but have never read the 27:10 book, right? 27:12 And you are all trusting and naive and 27:15 good, right? And they use you and they 27:18 manipulate you and they play games with 27:20 you and you're hurt and you get 27:22 emotional and you get upset and this 27:24 makes you weaker and it makes it harder 27:25 to get in life and you go home and you 27:28 carry it home with you and then you quit 27:31 and then and then it it has like 27:33 cascading effects on you 27:34 psychologically. 27:36 So, what I'm telling people in the 48 27:38 laws of power and even in the art of 27:40 seduction is don't be so damn naive. I 27:44 don't want you to go out there and be 27:46 manipulative. 27:47 >> I'm telling you, be aware of these games 27:50 that are being played and don't be so 27:52 naive. So, law number four, always say 27:57 less than necessary. It's not really 28:00 manipulative or evil. It just means 28:04 don't be talking so much. Control you 28:07 what you say a little bit. Be more in 28:09 control of yourself, right? Be aware 28:12 that other people are looking at you and 28:14 judging you. And so that kind of 28:16 self-awareness will help you in the 28:18 world. You spoke something about weak 28:20 like don't be weak in environments. 28:22 That's something that you want people to 28:24 learn. 28:26 What are small behaviors 28:28 that people are unconsciously doing and 28:31 it's making them appear weak, insecure 28:34 and desperate? 28:35 >> Always say less than necessary. So 28:40 people who talk a lot, right, who can't 28:42 control themselves, who are always 28:44 blathering about what they think, about 28:46 their emotions, about their feelings, 28:50 that makes you look weak. You don't 28:52 think that. You think, "Wow, I'm just 28:54 being honest. I'm being sincere. I'm 28:56 just talking about who I am. What's 28:58 wrong with that, Robert? Man, can I just 29:00 be myself? Well, but we're not. Humans 29:03 are animals, too. And we smell that if 29:07 you can't control yourself. If you're 29:09 always having to talk, then you can't 29:11 control other things about yourself. And 29:13 that's a sign of weakness. And 29:15 inevitably, if you talk and talk and 29:18 talk and talk, you're going to say 29:19 something stupid. Right. 29:21 >> True. If you're able to control 29:23 yourself, if you're able to talk, let 29:26 the other person do more of the talking. 29:28 First of all, that that'll be a 29:29 seductive quality. And also, I noticed 29:33 in meetings, in business meetings, etc., 29:36 the person who talks less but has a 29:39 commanding presence to him or her is 29:43 kind of emanates power. Right. Right. 29:47 And then when they do say something, 29:50 everyone's listening. What did they say? 29:51 I mean, I had that experience with 50 29:53 Cent when I did the book with him, 29:55 right? I was in there on several 29:57 meetings. People could not stop looking 30:00 at 50 Cent. What's What's going on with 30:02 him? Cuz he never said anything. He 30:04 never he sit in this very powerful 30:06 meeting with millions of dollars at 30:08 stake. He would sit there all calm with 30:11 this kind of strange smile on his face. 30:14 He appeared to be listening, but he 30:15 never said anything. What's going on 30:17 with 50? What's he thinking? It was so 30:20 powerful, right? So talking all of the 30:23 time makes you feel weak. Makes you look 30:25 weak. Trying to please too many people 30:29 makes you look weak. Sometimes it can 30:32 make you look weak. The people pleaser. 30:35 Sometimes you think, well, that's a 30:37 great quality. You're always trying to 30:38 please people and get them to like you. 30:40 Okay. But it doesn't feel like sometimes 30:42 it doesn't come from a position of 30:44 actually comes from insecurity, right? 30:48 you're you're defensive. You're worried 30:49 that people might hurt you, so you're 30:51 always trying to please them. That makes 30:53 you look weak. Some of these qualities 30:55 you having demonstrating that you have 30:58 self-control, that you can kind of craft 31:02 your your appearances, that you have 31:05 this presence is very powerful. But the 31:08 feeling that you have somebody has no 31:10 control, they're just who they are. 31:12 They're just blathering and talking and 31:14 trying to please people, it makes you 31:16 look weak. 31:18 You said people who try to please 31:20 people, they they look weak and that 31:24 makes you weak, right? And I've also 31:26 noticed that 31:28 when you're trying too hard to impress, 31:31 it makes you less desirable. Why is 31:34 that? because you're essentially just 31:37 trying to probably do more things which 31:40 makes you desirable in front of someone 31:42 else 31:44 because um it doesn't really feel like 31:47 it comes from a place of strength and 31:50 security. So if you're if you're a 31:53 Buddha, if you're Gandhi, if you're 31:56 somebody of that high level, 32:00 it's genuine. You're a genuine saintly 32:03 person. It's very powerful and it reads 32:06 that way. We can smell when when that 32:09 desire to impress people and get them to 32:11 like you comes from a genuine love of 32:14 other people, a genuine concern. We can 32:17 feel it. But a lot of times it feels 32:20 desperate. 32:21 >> It feels like they want you to like them 32:24 so that you won't hurt them. And we 32:26 smell that kind of weakness. Now, I'll 32:28 tell you something, Raj. 32:30 I'm normally, I think, a fair a pretty 32:34 nice person, right? I came from the side 32:37 that's more naive. I have a bit of 32:39 weakness to myself. 32:42 I've learned over the years that playing 32:45 up the niceness 32:48 and you know going along with people 32:51 being interested in them can work if I 32:55 demonstrate there are limits and there 32:57 are boundaries and you do something to 32:59 me and I'm going to mess with you. You 33:02 can't go that far with me. I'm nice. I'm 33:05 gentle. I like what you say. I'm 33:08 interested. Then you start taking 33:09 advantage of me. I'm gonna put the 33:11 hammer on your head in an instant. I'm 33:13 going to show you the limits and the 33:15 boundaries and then my genuinely nice 33:19 nature which I do have works for me. 33:22 >> Right. But I have limits and I there are 33:26 people out there who will attest to how 33:28 I can be when you test those limits. 33:30 >> In middle you said we all are 33:35 unconsciously 33:37 attracted towards dark traits. attracted 33:40 towards evil traits. What are these dark 33:43 traits that people are attracted 33:46 towards? 33:48 >> Well, first of all, you have to 33:50 understand 33:52 the the dark side of of of everybody, 33:55 right? So, 33:59 uh when you were a child, you were just 34:02 a complete individual. You weren't yet 34:04 socialized. You would maybe beat up your 34:07 sister. You would hit your sister. You 34:09 would steal from her. You would do 34:11 things. But you would also be sweet and 34:13 nice. And then slowly you become 34:16 socialized. Your parents tell you, 34:18 "Don't do that, Raj. Don't hit yourself. 34:20 Be nice to her." Your teachers are doing 34:22 that on and on. And that kind of human 34:25 quality that we all possess, that kind 34:28 of animal energy that's just explosive. 34:31 It gets pressed down further and further 34:33 and further and repressed. Okay? And we 34:36 suffer from that because we're not 34:38 complete human beings anymore. A big 34:41 part of ourselves has been cut off from 34:43 us. Something that was in our childlike 34:46 nature. 34:47 Okay. So when we see people who give out 34:52 some of that energy from childhood, it 34:56 seems very authentic to us. It seems 34:58 very real and we're attracted to people 35:00 like that. If you look at entertainment 35:05 in movies and television shows, it's the 35:08 dark characters. It's the evil ones. 35:10 It's the Machavelians that were 35:12 interested, that we're excited in it, 35:14 that make us want to watch that movie, 35:16 makes us want to know what's going to 35:18 happen. The villains. If there were no 35:20 villains in this world, there'd be no 35:22 drama. There'd be no entertainment. We 35:24 are drawn to that secretly. We're drawn 35:26 to those types of people because it's a 35:29 part of ourselves that we've had to cut 35:31 off and repress. Now, I'm not telling 35:35 you to go out there and be evil and be 35:38 dark and steal and rob and cheat and 35:41 kill. I want you to take that dark 35:43 energy that you have that we all have 35:46 and channel it into something productive 35:48 and make it work. So I took all of my 35:52 dark 35:54 evil Machavelian energy which I've had 35:57 since I was a child and I put it into 35:59 the 48 laws of power which has had some 36:03 success and has helped a lot of people. 36:06 >> Tell me top three dark traits which 36:09 people are really attracted to. 36:13 Well, I know for instance, um there's an 36:17 athlete um that I admired very much, 36:20 Kobe Bryant, basketball player. 36:22 >> Love him. 36:23 >> Okay. He was my idol. He's he's the 36:25 greatest. 36:27 >> Kobe had a lot of dark energy to him and 36:29 he talked about it a lot. 36:32 >> And when he was young, it could get him 36:34 in trouble. And I remember when he first 36:37 got on the Lakers, there was something 36:38 about him that wasn't mixing well with 36:40 the team. He was so competitive, so 36:44 ambitious. He was just going to he would 36:46 do anything to get an edge on you, 36:49 right? And Michael Jordan was a bit like 36:51 that as well. Okay. So that sense of 36:56 somebody who has that kind of ambition 37:00 [clears throat] 37:01 but is controlling it and putting it 37:03 into the a basketball game is incredibly 37:07 powerful and we're attracted to it right 37:11 on the court particularly. 37:13 Another thing was um so willingness to 37:17 do anything for your ambition in a 37:20 professional setting that's an 37:22 attractive trait. Yes. I I mean Elon 37:25 Musk is not somebody that I admire, 37:28 but his quality of he'll do anything to 37:32 promote himself, anything to promote his 37:35 business is what attracts a lot of 37:37 energy towards him, hatred and love as 37:40 well. Right? Another quality is I talked 37:45 in the art of seduction 37:47 about charisma, right? And I equate 37:51 charisma. A charismatic person is like 37:54 they have a light inside of them that 37:56 animates them. They're so excited. You 37:58 see it in their eyes and their voice. 38:01 One of the people I talked about in 38:03 there was Malcolm X, a very important 38:06 figure here in America. He had a lot of 38:08 anger 38:10 and and righteous anger because he was a 38:13 black person in America who suffered 38:14 very deeply. He was a hustler who was 38:17 put in prison for many several years. He 38:20 was in prison, right? And then he came 38:22 out and he saw all the racism in America 38:25 and it made him so angry. 38:28 But he when he spoke he was one of the 38:31 most elegant speakers and you can look 38:33 at it on YouTube and watch one of his 38:35 talks. He doesn't seem angry. He doesn't 38:39 come across yelling and bitter. He 38:41 controls it. It's in his word. It's in 38:44 his tone. It's in what he says. It's in 38:46 his gestures. It's in his body language. 38:49 It's very, very powerful. Anger can be 38:53 very, we're drawn to it if it's in that 38:57 chneled controlled way. Somebody who 38:59 yells and screams like a Hitler, like a 39:01 Mussolini. Yeah, that could be some 39:05 people are drawn to that. But the person 39:07 who channels that energy, that anger 39:10 into something that's kind of 39:12 controlled, right? that's in the 39:14 background is very very we're attracted 39:17 to that. 39:19 So, I took my own anger and I put it in 39:23 the 48 Laws of Power. And when you read 39:25 it, you're not aware of an author who's 39:28 angry, who's been screwed in Hollywood, 39:30 but it's in the background. 39:32 >> And the kind of darkness in the 48 Laws 39:36 of Power is what has made it, I'm 39:38 afraid, so successful because people are 39:42 secretly drawn to that. There's so many 39:45 icky, gooey, sweet, sentimental 39:47 self-help books out there that say just 39:50 be kind, just be good, just be a team 39:52 player, just be cooperative. Yuck. 39:54 That's all we've read. We know that the 39:56 world isn't like that. But here's a book 39:58 that kind of talks about, you know, act 40:01 like a friend, be like a spy, crush your 40:04 enemy, totally, you know, play a sucker 40:06 to catch a sucker. Yeah, man. Yeah, I'm 40:08 interested in that. So, I I kind of 40:10 accomplished that in in my book itself. 40:13 So first was am willingness to do 40:15 anything for ambition. Second was anger. 40:19 What's the third one? [laughter] 40:24 >> Jeez, I don't know. I have to think 40:26 about I have to think about people who 40:28 have that quality. The other thing is 40:30 you're giving me a hard time. That's all 40:32 right. I deserve it. The [laughter] 40:33 other thing is that you have a past. 40:36 >> What do you mean by that? 40:38 >> That there's something dark in your past 40:41 >> that makes people nice. uh more 40:42 attracted towards you. 40:44 >> Yeah, 40:44 >> I think so too. 40:45 >> Yeah. 40:45 >> When you show people that you're broken 40:49 in a way which and you accept that in a 40:52 way that most people will never accept 40:54 and you show up out there, it makes you 40:56 instantly attractive. 40:57 >> Yeah. All right. I got one. 40:59 >> Yeah. [laughter] 41:02 >> Yes. Because [snorts] in fact I've seen 41:06 this is to me personally 41:09 people who appear to be having a great 41:15 past and they have no darkness and they 41:18 it feels like they're too good to be 41:20 true. I find it very difficult to trust 41:23 them. 41:24 >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 41:25 >> Like I I want to be careful of them. 41:28 >> Yeah. And if somebody comes and tells me 41:31 about some broken bad thing which 41:34 probably is negative, I still trust them 41:38 more than the people who appear to have 41:40 no past at all. 41:41 >> And also if you've been hurt really 41:44 badly and you had a bad childhood or 41:48 something, there's some something very 41:49 we're drawn to people like that. 41:51 >> We're drawn towards broken people. 41:53 >> Yes, 41:54 >> that is 41:56 it's it's true. That is so true. 41:59 >> Yeah. I know personally in the realm of 42:03 seduction, I'm the woman that has had a 42:06 wonderful childhood, everybody treated 42:09 her well, who's so happy doesn't 42:11 interest me. [laughter] 42:13 So I'm particularly vulnerable to that 42:16 problem. Yeah. 42:18 >> So being broken, being ambition and 42:20 anger. Okay. [laughter] 42:25 You know one thing which helped me a lot 42:27 >> not yeah like I started purposely 42:31 following that rule in my life at in the 42:35 beginning of my professional career in 42:36 last 42:38 now I' don't think about these things at 42:40 all it was [snorts] law of absence 42:44 >> what does that mean 42:45 >> that don't be present everywhere 42:48 >> what what 42:49 >> don't be present everywhere like be 42:51 absent 42:51 >> oh yeah yeah of like that. 42:54 >> Well, you know, I talk about that a lot. 42:56 >> That's why that's what like you talked 42:57 about it and that's how I got to know 42:59 and I started putting that in my life 43:02 and I've seen changes. I never used to 43:04 believe in that. I used to feel and this 43:06 is strictly professional that if I go to 43:10 every networking event, every place, 43:13 every conference, I'm there, I'm being 43:15 seen everywhere, you know, it's going to 43:18 help my career. It's usually the 43:20 opposite. If I'm seen at very few 43:22 places, that has helped me way more than 43:26 being seen everywhere. So the law of 43:28 absence became a primary rule in my 43:31 life. I'm so glad to hear that. 43:32 >> Everybody in my team follows it. 43:34 >> I'm so glad I'm glad glad you realize 43:36 that. Well, I said before that the art 43:39 of seduction is maybe people think about 43:41 you when you're not there. So if you're 43:44 there at every event, every networking 43:46 thing, they take you for granted. True, 43:48 right? But if you're not there, why 43:50 isn't Raj here? What's going on with 43:53 him? Does he have better things to do? 43:54 Better than being here? They make You're 43:56 making them think about you. You're 43:58 creating a little bit of mystery so that 44:00 when you do show up, it has meaning. It 44:02 has import. Yeah. It's an incredibly 44:05 important law because 44:07 in the age of social media, it almost 44:10 seems counterintuitive. I've got to be 44:12 seen everywhere. I've got to have 44:14 attention. I've got to have as many 44:15 followers as possible. If a day goes by 44:18 and I haven't posted something, people 44:20 aren't thinking about me. They're not 44:22 talking about me. But what you don't 44:23 realize is that in playing the game that 44:26 way, you're just like everybody else. 44:29 >> And other people are going to come along 44:31 and they're going to attract attention 44:33 and people will forget about you because 44:35 they take you for granted. You're just 44:37 like everybody else. And the game is to 44:40 be different, is to be not like anybody 44:42 else, to be who you are. So, it's not 44:45 like Raz shows up every other time at an 44:48 event. We don't know. We can't figure it 44:51 out. He's got his own weird pattern. 44:54 He's got his own weird things. And so, 44:55 with you, you makes you unique. And as 44:58 you get older, cuz you're only 29, 45:02 you'll see more and more of 45:04 possibilities to be different and be 45:06 yourself and have power in that. Because 45:09 it's hard when you're in your 20s to 45:11 think that way because you think I've 45:13 got to be like everybody else. I've got 45:16 to fit in because that's what it means 45:18 like to be young, to be hip, to be 45:20 right. But as you get older and you're 45:23 confident and you know yourself, you 45:25 know the game is actually to not be like 45:27 anybody else out there. That's what 45:30 really draws attention. And so not 45:32 showing up is is part of that game. 45:34 Yeah, true. There's nothing wrong 45:37 with that kind of manipulation. I mean, 45:40 you're going out on a date with a woman 45:42 that you're very interested in, right? 45:45 So, you dress nicely, 45:48 right? You dress nicer than you normally 45:50 would. You think more deeply about what 45:52 I have to wear and you think, "I want to 45:55 take her to a good restaurant." These 45:57 are things you wouldn't normally do. 45:58 You're playing a game. You're 46:00 manipulating her. She thinks you dress 46:02 nicely. We don't normally dress that 46:04 way. So this that's part of being a 46:07 human being. It's part of being a social 46:08 animal. I get a little bit angry 46:12 sometimes with people who are so worried 46:14 about always having to be like an angel 46:17 because the people who have to pretend 46:19 that they're always an angel are 46:21 actually hiding something very deep 46:23 inside. You know, 46:25 >> we all play games. 46:27 >> True. That is so true. Thanks for saying 46:30 out loud. [laughter] 46:33 because I do sometimes have certain 46:36 guilt about certain things. So, thanks 46:38 for pointing out that one thing. Okay, 46:41 tell me when you you know when you 46:42 practice all of these things, right? And 46:45 you become this one person who is 46:49 who is this you become this person who 46:52 everybody's attracted towards, right? 46:55 Then a lot of people get addicted to you 46:57 and people get obsessed with you. So 47:01 when someone is obsessed with someone, 47:05 what are they really addicted towards? 47:08 Why 47:10 like what quality is there that 47:14 that is that is making this one person 47:16 so addictive that you can't leave that 47:18 person? You know that this person is not 47:21 right. You know that this person 47:24 shows 50% interest, 50% doesn't show 47:26 interest. 47:27 >> I mean um 47:28 >> you get addicted to it. Why? 47:30 Well, the most powerful uh you know, in 47:32 the art of seduction, I have the nine 47:34 types of seducers. 47:36 The most powerful of them all is the 47:38 coette. 47:40 Often traditionally associated with a 47:42 woman, but men equally can play the 47:43 game. 47:44 >> And a coette is someone who blows hot 47:47 and cold, right? So, if this, let's just 47:51 say it's a woman, but it could be a man. 47:53 If this woman were always cold and 47:55 indifferent, nobody would be interested 47:58 in her. If she was always hot and 48:00 exciting and sexy and coming on, 48:03 but she's exciting and sexy and 48:06 alluring. You go after her, then she 48:09 pulls back and she's a little bit cold 48:12 and you go, "But she was interested. 48:14 What's going on? What's my problem? 48:15 She's not interested in you. I've got to 48:17 try even harder." It's a very addictive 48:20 type of person. It makes you chase them. 48:23 So people who withdraw, 48:26 who step back and make you chase them 48:29 and make you go after them, it becomes a 48:32 form of addiction. It becomes a kind of 48:33 a hunt. You want to conquer them. You 48:35 want to get them. You want to be the 48:37 person that has them as well. So that 48:40 sense of mystery, of retreat, of a 48:44 little bit of absence is what can make 48:46 you very addicted to them. Right. 48:48 >> True. True. You know, I was reading 48:51 >> I mean like I'm sorry, but when you're 48:53 addicted, what makes you addicted 48:55 >> is withdrawal. 48:57 >> You don't have that drug and now you've 48:59 got to get it. That's what this person 49:01 is doing. 49:02 >> True. True. I was reading a little bit 49:05 of neuroscience around this. And and I 49:08 found out that 49:11 your dopamine neurons, they fire up not 49:16 because of the reward, it's because of 49:18 the anticipation. Ah, very interesting. 49:20 >> And they fire up to the maximum not at 49:24 100% but at 50%. 49:28 So whenever you're chasing something and 49:30 there's an anticipation that you're 49:32 going to get 50% and 50% you might not 49:34 get 49:35 >> that is when your dopamine neurons are 49:37 fired up to the maximum and that's why 49:40 you get addicted to it. That 49:42 >> she might say yes, she might say no. 49:45 that 49:46 like neuro by like 49:50 neurologically it's more addictive and 49:52 it's it's proven by science. So this 49:55 whole anticipation game works way 49:57 better. A lot of people think that the 49:59 reward makes them addictive but it's 50:02 actually the anticipation insight that 50:04 maybe I'll get it and maybe I'm not. 50:06 >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean um I talked in in the 50:10 in the war book um about leaders who are 50:14 very good at motivating people 50:17 >> and one of the greatest motivators was 50:19 Napoleon Bonapart and Napoleon 50:21 Bonapart's strategy was mixing harshness 50:24 with kindness. 50:26 So he he was very interested in his 50:29 soldiers. He was very thinking about 50:32 them and trying to protect them and 50:34 making them comfortable. But when he was 50:37 harsh men, he would make a show of it. 50:39 And he was the meanest person of all. 50:41 And there was no leader who who who 50:44 people were more addicted to who were 50:46 more in love with than Napoleon 50:48 Bonapart. Even though he led millions of 50:50 young men to death, literally in the 50:53 wars in Europe by mixing that harshness 50:56 and kindness, they were constantly 50:59 thinking about him. They were so 51:00 enraptured by him because those moments 51:03 of harshness, whoa, it's like a slap in 51:04 the face. That's not who Napoleon is, 51:07 but yeah, he is. And it made it made him 51:10 the respect levels go way up. 51:13 >> 5050% true. 51:14 >> And they were anticipating that moments 51:16 of harshness as you say 51:18 >> when exact. So it's like then the 51:21 obsession with the leader or with a 51:24 woman or a man 51:25 >> is not about the person at all. It's you 51:28 are not addicted to that person. you're 51:30 actually addicted to the unanswered 51:32 question 51:33 >> which you feel like only this person can 51:35 answer 51:36 >> and that's why you get more addicted. 51:38 >> That's 51:38 >> I mean the only the the flip side of it 51:40 is I'm wondering like algorithms are 51:44 designed to be incredibly addictive, 51:46 >> right? 51:47 >> They figured out how to kind of capture 51:50 our attention and to return over and 51:53 over and over and over again to the same 51:55 kinds of posts on social media 51:57 >> because it's the same rule, right? You 51:58 don't know if the next next reel is 52:00 going to be good or bad. 52:01 >> Yeah. 52:02 >> So in your head you're anticipating next 52:04 one's a little better or this little and 52:07 >> that's very interesting. You give it 52:09 something. 52:09 >> Yeah. Right. Like you've just gified the 52:11 whole anticipation mechanism in your 52:13 head. 52:13 >> Well, you know, um all that stuff like 52:15 neuroscience that you mentioned, they're 52:17 all reading all about that. They know 52:19 about all these studies and they're very 52:21 clever in getting us hooked and 52:22 addicted. 52:23 >> True. That they all they do is this. I 52:26 mean, is is it's seduction 52:29 ultimately the art of discovering 52:33 an unmet emotional need of someone else? 52:37 So, um 52:39 in in in ancient Greek, the uh god of 52:43 love was was Cupid or Aeros and he had a 52:47 bow and an arrow and what that meant was 52:50 he would wound you with the bow and 52:52 arrow and in that wound you would fall 52:54 in love. Now, because if we feel 52:58 completely secure and happy in our 53:00 lives, we can't be seduced, right? 53:03 There's nothing there's nothing to 53:05 seduce. We're already so perfect and 53:06 happy. 53:07 >> Yeah. 53:08 >> But if we're missing something, if we 53:10 have a wound from our childhood, most 53:13 often something that was hurt us, 53:15 something that we never got before, then 53:18 we are extremely vulnerable to being 53:20 seduced. Right? So if somebody as a 53:25 child 53:27 um never got enough attention, right, 53:31 their mother was was a narcissist, 53:34 wasn't really attending to them very 53:36 much. They're going to spend their 53:38 entire life with that emptiness, that 53:40 wound in them that they never got enough 53:43 attention, that they never got enough 53:44 recognition. When a person comes along 53:48 who senses that weakness in them and 53:50 gives them that attention, they're just 53:52 going to melt, right? 53:54 >> Yeah. 53:55 >> Everybody has a wound from their 53:57 childhood, something missing, right? And 54:01 you're playing you you realize what that 54:03 is and you're giving it to them in some 54:05 form or another. It could be wicked and 54:08 manipulative or it can be very caring 54:10 and and helpful to the other person. But 54:13 if someone is completely happy and has 54:15 no wounds, you cannot seduce them. 54:17 >> True. It's it's always like that that 54:21 your childhood voids end up becoming 54:24 your adulthood things that you value the 54:27 most in life, 54:28 >> right? 54:28 >> And then if you can figure out that void 54:30 and become a person who provides that, 54:33 you usually end up making other person 54:37 fall in love with you. Well, you see the 54:39 thing is, as I mentioned before, 54:41 you're not going to figure out what 54:43 people are missing in life if you're 54:45 thinking about yourself and your own 54:47 wounds. True. 54:48 >> So, the problem that people have is 54:52 when you're somebody who is wounded from 54:54 childhood, like you weren't given 54:56 something, it tends to make you very 54:58 self-absorbed and it makes you a bad 55:01 seducer. So the problem is you have to 55:04 overcome that and you have to be 55:06 outerdirected and very much looking at 55:08 the other person so that you can figure 55:10 out what they are missing. Sometimes you 55:13 can sense that intuitively the moment 55:15 you meet somebody and you don't have to 55:17 put it into words. But most often people 55:20 aren't realizing it. They're not 55:22 conscious. They're not aware because 55:23 they're not paying deep attention to the 55:25 signs that people give. I tell that if 55:28 you um 55:30 if you get people to talk about their 55:32 childhood, 55:34 right, but you're not obvious about it, 55:37 you you don't make it look like you're 55:39 questioning them for information, but in 55:42 the course of a conversation, you get 55:44 them to talk about their child, about 55:45 their parents, their early years. You're 55:48 going to figure out very quickly what 55:49 that wound is. They're going to reveal 55:51 it. things that excite them, things that 55:53 they tell, and then little dark secrets, 55:56 little shadows and corners that they 55:59 don't really want to talk about, but 56:01 kind of come out. Get people to talk 56:03 about their childhood, and you'll pretty 56:05 quickly figure out what it is that 56:06 they're missing. 56:07 >> True. True. It's 56:12 and 56:14 when you figure out something about 56:15 other person's childhood and when you're 56:17 interested in you're trying to know that 56:20 it somehow I don't know why it somehow 56:24 gets you closer as well as two people 56:26 like when the moment you start talking 56:28 about childhood the good bad and ugly 56:31 things all together it just brings you 56:33 so much closer to the other person. 56:35 >> Yeah. Yeah. Right. When people talk 56:37 about their childhood, they become like 56:40 a child. 56:41 >> Yeah. 56:43 >> They're reliving experiences 56:45 and they have their facially their 56:47 smiles, their laughter, uncontrollable 56:49 things light up. You can see the four or 56:52 5year-old in them coming out. It's very 56:55 interesting. And people love to talk 56:58 about their childhood. Even if you had a 57:00 bad childhood, people love to talk about 57:03 it. You could think you get them to open 57:05 up because they're dying to share their 57:07 their little secrets and their and 57:09 everything that they suffered and all 57:11 their pleasures that they had. It would 57:13 work wonders on me as well. I I I have 57:16 that weakness too. 57:17 >> Yeah. You know, that's one of the 57:19 questions, one of my most go-to 57:22 questions when I meet someone for the 57:24 second or the third time is this that 57:27 what do you used to do the most as a 57:29 kid? And then it just starts a new segue 57:33 into a conversation which can either go 57:35 very deep or into so much fun or can 57:38 lead to a different adventure that hey I 57:40 used to do this and I missed it. Okay, 57:42 let's go do that. 57:43 >> Right. And then and then brings you out 57:45 in you and you want to share your own 57:47 experiences and then you can kind of 57:48 bond on some level. 57:50 >> Yeah. So and then people end up telling 57:51 you what they miss today, 57:53 >> what they used to get 57:55 >> and what is something they continue to 57:56 do. So, and then it's a great way to 57:59 realize what other person likes or 58:00 dislikes. 58:01 >> And when people talk about their mother 58:03 or their father, that's particularly 58:07 powerful. So, for a boy, the 58:10 relationship with his mother is 58:13 extremely potent. All sorts of things 58:16 are constellated around that 58:17 relationship. 58:19 All the things they never got, all the 58:20 things that they love, what they're 58:22 attracted to. I don't mean to get 58:24 Freudian on you, but your relationship 58:26 to your mother is incredibly powerful. 58:29 And for women, it's also the mother, but 58:31 it's also the father. And their 58:33 relationship to the male figure, to that 58:35 dark, shadowy father that was looming in 58:38 the background carries all sorts of 58:40 power in it and reveals all sorts of 58:42 weaknesses and things that they're 58:44 afraid of and things that they're 58:45 attracted to. 58:47 >> Yeah, I absolutely agree. That makes me 58:49 question, 58:51 do you fall in love with another person 58:54 or do you fall in love with the fantasy 58:57 of who you become with that person? 59:02 Well, it depends. It depends on on most 59:04 often we fall in love with the fantasy, 59:07 right? But sometimes it can happen. 59:10 Also, 59:12 what often happens is when you first 59:14 fall in love, it's the fantasy. And then 59:17 if a relationship develops and it's 59:18 several years down the road you start 59:21 falling in love with the person as they 59:23 are the real person with all their 59:24 weaknesses and all their foibless and 59:27 even the things you don't like about 59:28 them and the imperfections in them 59:30 become something that you cherish and 59:32 you love when you think about them what 59:34 you would miss if they were gone. But 59:37 originally in the first moments we're 59:39 almost always attracted to the fantasy 59:41 that that they're somehow fulfilling for 59:43 us. Definitely true because I often 59:46 believe that 59:51 you usually don't fall in with the 59:54 person right you fall in love with the 59:57 idea of you around them how they make 1:00:00 you feel who you become how enlarged you 1:00:03 get or how empowered you feel when 1:00:05 you're when they are around you because 1:00:08 that is a different personality of you 1:00:10 which you really get addicted to. So you 1:00:13 always keep asking yourself a question, 1:00:16 who am I without you and who am I with 1:00:18 you? And that usually is the answer to 1:00:22 why did you fall in love with someone? 1:00:24 Because even if you look at when they 1:00:25 when people break up, they usually don't 1:00:29 tend to miss the person. They miss the 1:00:32 version of themselves which they were 1:00:34 with that person. Yeah. And that's what 1:00:36 they moan the most because they almost 1:00:38 feel like they've lost something a part 1:00:42 of personality which they had in 1:00:45 themselves when they were with this 1:00:47 partner who they absolutely love. 1:00:49 >> Then they go in search of someone else 1:00:50 who will give that to them 1:00:52 >> and it's very difficult to find that. 1:00:54 >> Yeah. Yeah. So in in my new book I have 1:00:58 a chapter on on it's a book about the 1:01:00 sublime and I have a chapter on love 1:01:02 sublime 1:01:04 and I talk about this story from the 1:01:06 middle ages in Europe of Abalard and 1:01:09 Eloise one of the greatest love stories 1:01:12 in in western culture [snorts] and 1:01:15 essentially Abalard was this professor 1:01:19 um in Paris who was very logical very 1:01:23 could figure things out but he had never 1:01:25 had a relationship ship with a woman. 1:01:27 And there was this w young woman named 1:01:30 Eloise who was the most educated 1:01:33 um philosophical and desired woman in 1:01:36 all of France. It was very unusual for a 1:01:38 woman to be a scholar, but she knew 1:01:40 Hebrew and Latin and Greek and she was 1:01:43 beautiful. 1:01:45 And he sees her one day walking by the 1:01:48 river and he tells himself, I'm going to 1:01:50 I'm going to be the one that conquers 1:01:52 Eloise. I'm going to seduce her. I've 1:01:53 had no uh experience with women, but I'm 1:01:57 gonna I'm gonna seduce her somehow 1:01:59 because it was for his ego. He wanted to 1:02:02 show everyone that he was the greatest 1:02:04 person of the time. And so he becomes 1:02:06 her tutor. 1:02:08 And as he starts instructing her, they 1:02:10 start becoming physical because he was a 1:02:13 very handsome man. And quickly, they're 1:02:15 having sex and they're doing all sorts 1:02:16 of very naughty things for the time. and 1:02:21 he starts falling in love with her and 1:02:23 he starts realizing that what he thought 1:02:26 she was, the fantasy that he had 1:02:28 imagined, isn't the reality. She seems 1:02:31 so sweet and innocent, but actually 1:02:34 she's got a very dark and devilish side. 1:02:37 He's always afraid that they're going to 1:02:38 be caught and will ruin his reputation. 1:02:40 She doesn't care. She wants to be 1:02:42 caught. She they they sneak into 1:02:44 churches and they have sex inside the 1:02:46 church. She's transgressive. I didn't 1:02:49 understand who she was. So, he gets to 1:02:51 ignore her more and more and more. And 1:02:54 finally, the fantasy that drew her into 1:02:56 her turns into the reality that this is 1:02:58 a person who is incredibly interesting, 1:03:01 incredibly dimensional. And he's 1:03:04 completely hooked and he falls deeply 1:03:06 deeply in love. and their story and 1:03:08 their connection is one of the most 1:03:10 fascinating stories because we have the 1:03:12 letters between them and the connection 1:03:14 that they they develop between each 1:03:17 other was just insane and I'm trying to 1:03:20 say so we say that love is like we say 1:03:22 falling in love right so it's a 1:03:26 brilliant metaphor because it is like 1:03:27 falling you're falling because you're 1:03:30 letting go you're letting go of all of 1:03:32 your defenses you're letting go of all 1:03:34 your vulnerabilities you're letting go 1:03:36 of all that keeps you a separate from 1:03:38 other people. You're letting go of your 1:03:40 ego. You fall and you fall and you fall 1:03:43 and you fall. You let go of all that. 1:03:45 You reach a point where there's nothing 1:03:47 left and you become like the other 1:03:49 person and you have this incredible 1:03:51 bond. It's an ideal that is very rarely 1:03:53 realized. But to get to your point, what 1:03:56 happens is 1:03:58 for most people, they start falling and 1:04:01 they get afraid. Oh no, I'm going to get 1:04:04 hurt. 1:04:05 You know, I don't want to give up so 1:04:07 much of myself because what if this 1:04:08 person suddenly doesn't desire me 1:04:11 anymore? I fallen this far. If I fall 1:04:14 any further, the pain will be that much 1:04:16 greater. I'm going to stop. Right? And 1:04:19 then you start you start hearing from 1:04:22 friends about, oh, there's somebody. You 1:04:24 start thinking, oh, there must be 1:04:25 somebody else out there because you're 1:04:27 addicted to that sensation of falling 1:04:29 and letting go. But you wouldn't let go 1:04:32 far enough to fall really in love. So 1:04:35 you become addicted to the sensation of 1:04:37 falling but you won't let yourself fall 1:04:38 far enough for anything meaningful to 1:04:41 happen. So you go search for other 1:04:43 people and you never quite f you never 1:04:45 quite let go enough to ever have that 1:04:47 sort of sensation that is the deepest 1:04:51 it's almost a religious feeling that a 1:04:53 human can have because it's combining 1:04:55 the physical and the spiritual. 1:04:58 It's the physical powerful connection to 1:05:00 a a a woman or a man and it's the 1:05:03 spiritual side of getting to understand 1:05:05 what makes them a unique individual. 1:05:07 They become something that lives inside 1:05:09 of you. It is a religious experience. It 1:05:12 could be very powerful, but people are 1:05:14 too afraid to let go to have that happen 1:05:17 because they're so defensive and worried 1:05:19 about the pain that might occur. And 1:05:22 then 1:05:26 [clears throat] do you feel that 1:05:29 a lot of people they get this kind of 1:05:33 really 1:05:34 aggressive love deeply love feeling and 1:05:38 even after that then they then they 1:05:41 leave like they get really into the 1:05:44 relationship. They are in love. They're 1:05:46 addicted to it. they're enjoying 1:05:49 and then they leave like immediately 1:05:51 something goes on and they try to look 1:05:53 for that kind of feeling or maybe a 1:05:55 deeper feeling with someone else. It's 1:05:57 like almost they feel like there's 1:06:00 something which is 1:06:01 >> better 1:06:02 >> better and not ful not completed here. 1:06:06 >> Well, the thing is um humans are flawed 1:06:10 individuals. They have imperfections. 1:06:13 uh they have weaknesses and the longer 1:06:16 you're involved with someone, the more 1:06:17 you're going to see their flaws and 1:06:19 their weaknesses and what makes them a 1:06:21 human being. So, you fell in love with 1:06:23 the fantasy, 1:06:25 the image, which is idealized and kind 1:06:27 of perfect. And then you start seeing 1:06:29 that they're not really what you thought 1:06:31 of. Some of what you now discover is 1:06:33 interesting, but some of what you 1:06:34 discover is kind of off-putting. You 1:06:37 didn't realize they were so needy and so 1:06:39 insecure. you didn't realize they needed 1:06:41 all these things that you w aren't 1:06:43 necessarily prepared to give them. All 1:06:46 right, I'm going to cut off that falling 1:06:48 process and I'm going to find somebody 1:06:51 else who's better, who's more perfect. 1:06:53 And we live in a time where the 1:06:56 prevailing metaphor is the marketplace. 1:06:59 So, it's Tinder, Swipe, ah, somebody 1:07:02 better. They're going to be better. 1:07:03 They're they look a little better. They 1:07:05 look a little bit younger. They're not 1:07:06 going to have all of these flaws. But of 1:07:08 course, inevitably they do because 1:07:09 they're a human being. So you have to 1:07:12 get rid of your fantasies and think of I 1:07:16 mean having if you value having a 1:07:19 relationship over time and I can tell 1:07:21 you personally as someone who was a rake 1:07:24 in my 20s who had many different women 1:07:27 that I was involved in having a 1:07:30 relationship over time is incredibly 1:07:32 satisfying, incredibly enriching. It's a 1:07:35 beautiful wonderful thing, right? But 1:07:38 it's not going to happen unless you 1:07:39 accept the the very glaring imperfection 1:07:42 in the other person and even come to 1:07:45 love them and appreciate them and 1:07:47 realize that the imperfections is what 1:07:50 makes them a human being and what makes 1:07:51 them in some ways very attractive to 1:07:53 you. But you know, you're always 1:07:56 listening. Your friends are always 1:07:57 telling you, "Oh, there's somebody else 1:07:58 out there. There's something wrong with 1:08:00 that person. She's like this. She's like 1:08:02 that. You can find somebody better." 1:08:04 Right. And then you have this the 1:08:06 swiping thing going on. So you're never 1:08:08 going to let yourself ever have that 1:08:10 sensation of of falling in love with the 1:08:14 with the complete human being that they 1:08:17 are and the imperfections and all. 1:08:20 This gets me to a larger point which you 1:08:22 also mentioned in the beginning of the 1:08:24 conversation was something missing. Why 1:08:28 do young people today feel that there's 1:08:30 something missing? 1:08:33 This has almost become like a constant 1:08:36 emotion or a constant state of living. I 1:08:39 feel there's something missing. 1:08:41 >> You know, when you're young, it's it's 1:08:43 like I had that feeling as well, like 1:08:45 something was missing. You have all of 1:08:48 this energy, all of this excitement 1:08:50 inside you physically. You're so 1:08:53 charged. You look good usually, you 1:08:56 know, and you want things to happen and 1:09:00 the world isn't providing it for you 1:09:02 because everything nowadays is so 1:09:03 virtual that to have a real experience, 1:09:06 to have a real adventure, to be taken 1:09:08 outside of yourself, to be taken onto 1:09:11 into something so different and 1:09:13 exciting, it just never happens anymore. 1:09:16 So the feeling like something is 1:09:18 missing, a lot of it has to come from 1:09:20 our technology and how we're being 1:09:22 programmed and we're not experiencing 1:09:24 things for ourselves. And so the book 1:09:27 that I've just written is about how to 1:09:29 get out of that trap and how to live 1:09:32 your own life more intensely, more 1:09:34 connected to the world, and to have real 1:09:37 concrete physical experiences and get 1:09:40 outside of your goddamn phone. You know, 1:09:43 that's why I think a lot of people are 1:09:44 feeling like they're missing. They won't 1:09:46 admit it because they're addicted to 1:09:48 their phones and to their screens, but 1:09:50 they're what they're missing is real 1:09:52 life, life intense, life physical, life 1:09:55 exciting, direct, immediate, not not 1:09:58 mediated by this thing. Tell me how how 1:10:02 someone who's socially anxious, is 1:10:05 always feeling that something is 1:10:06 missing, is trapped in this feeling, can 1:10:09 get out of it. Tell me one interesting 1:10:11 framework from the book that people can 1:10:14 implement today to get out of this whole 1:10:16 trap of feeling something missing. 1:10:18 >> So first of all, 1:10:20 give yourself moments where you put the 1:10:22 phone away. Give yourself some moments 1:10:25 of silence. Take a walk and not hear 1:10:28 anything. Just look around and be 1:10:30 observant and get rid of this addiction. 1:10:33 Right? I mean, I remember I used to swim 1:10:36 all of the time and there would be 1:10:38 people who had earphones in their head 1:10:40 while they were swimming. I mean, what's 1:10:42 wrong with you? Don't you want to be 1:10:45 directly related to what's going on to 1:10:47 your environment? That's the first 1:10:50 thing. It's the most important thing of 1:10:51 all is putting your stupid phone away, 1:10:54 putting it in a drawer, taking a hike, 1:10:56 taking a walk, going on a date, and 1:10:59 putting your phone away and talking to 1:11:01 the other person. You'll see couples at 1:11:03 restaurants and both of them are like 1:11:05 this, right? So, you're not living your 1:11:07 life. You're living the life that other 1:11:09 people are giving to you, that are 1:11:11 programming you, that are conditioning 1:11:12 you. You're not even aware of it. When I 1:11:16 meditate, I become aware of how 1:11:18 programmed I am, right? I become aware 1:11:21 of these thoughts that I can't get rid 1:11:23 of, but that were literally on my phone 1:11:26 half hour before when I looked at them. 1:11:28 Then I'm aware, god damn it, I am being 1:11:30 programmed. I am being conditioned. So 1:11:33 the first thing you can do is experience 1:11:35 life around you directly. You're young. 1:11:39 Your senses are alive and awake and 1:11:41 aware. When you get older, your senses 1:11:43 become dulled and you're not so active. 1:11:46 Okay? But you're not attuned to your 1:11:49 body. You're not attuned to yourself. 1:11:51 You're not attuned to your own rhythms. 1:11:53 Put the phone away and start opening 1:11:55 yourself to your environment, to the 1:11:57 things around you, to the sounds. I do 1:12:00 this exercise when I'm riding my bike up 1:12:03 in the hills. I do two things. I absorb 1:12:06 my mind completely in the environment in 1:12:09 the strange trees and the rock 1:12:11 formations and to the sounds. I'm not 1:12:14 hearing in my head thoughts. I'm hearing 1:12:17 the traffic in the distance. I'm hearing 1:12:19 the bird calls. I'm hearing the wind. 1:12:22 It's I can't tell you how how wonderful 1:12:25 it is. What a wonderful sensation it is. 1:12:28 But I won't have it if I'm like like 1:12:30 this, you know. 1:12:32 >> But do you think that will help people 1:12:35 feel better? 1:12:38 Because what I'm talking about is this 1:12:41 constant constant anxiety that people 1:12:44 feel like there's something missing in 1:12:46 my life. I'm doing everything right and 1:12:47 yet I'm not fulfilled. Do you think just 1:12:50 by getting close to nature and leaving 1:12:52 technology is going to help them that 1:12:53 much? 1:12:54 >> Yes. It'll it's not going to solve all 1:12:57 of your problems. There's there are 1:12:58 other things I can talk about from my 1:13:00 book. 1:13:01 >> Tell me one of the other things. 1:13:02 >> Well, I have a chapter in there about 1:13:05 your childhood 1:13:07 >> and how when you were a child, the world 1:13:10 was so much more intense, 1:13:12 right? Um I mean nowadays, I don't know, 1:13:15 children with their iPads, it's 1:13:16 changing. But for me at least, my 1:13:19 childhood was the most intense period of 1:13:21 my life. Okay? And I'm telling people 1:13:25 what you're what you're nostalgic about 1:13:28 isn't being young. What you're nostalgic 1:13:31 about is the intensity of your 1:13:33 experience. Right? So I try to analyze 1:13:37 what made the experience so intense back 1:13:39 then. 1:13:41 A lot of it was you were curious about 1:13:44 the world. So the problem that you have 1:13:48 when you get in your 30s and 40s and 50s 1:13:51 is you think you know everything. 1:13:53 >> Yeah. 1:13:53 >> Uh I've read all of these books. I know 1:13:56 what the world is. I know what reality 1:13:57 is. I know what politically is great and 1:13:59 right. And your mind just closes and 1:14:02 gets narrower and narrow and narrow on 1:14:04 these certain small little set of ideas. 1:14:06 You think you know them, right? When you 1:14:09 were a child, you had none of that. What 1:14:11 is you're you're interested in 1:14:13 everything because you're so small and 1:14:15 the world is so weird and mysterious. 1:14:16 You want to understand 1:14:19 well You go back to that go back 1:14:21 to that feeling of curiosity. 1:14:24 Start playing the exercise. And I do 1:14:26 this exercise on myself as I go around 1:14:29 and I look at things. I don't know 1:14:32 anything. I have no ideas. I don't know 1:14:35 what the world is like. I don't know 1:14:37 where why there's a sun out there. I 1:14:39 don't know where birds come from. I 1:14:41 don't know what my body is. I don't know 1:14:43 who I am. 1:14:45 Give return to a sense of mystery and 1:14:47 wonder about the world like you had when 1:14:49 you were three or four or 5 years old. 1:14:51 You can do that by doing so each chapter 1:14:55 in my book ends with literally exercises 1:14:58 that you can practice for putting this 1:15:00 into your daily life because I don't 1:15:02 want this to be some boring academic 1:15:05 book about the sublime. It's about how 1:15:07 you can have these experiences. So I 1:15:10 literally give you exercises to enact 1:15:13 each of these things. Right? So 1:15:16 interesting. There's something similar 1:15:18 which I do in my life but it's 1:15:20 accidental. Now I can just draw 1:15:23 parallels. I do this to stay 1:15:27 purposely and intentionally to stay more 1:15:29 curious. If I have to go to one place 1:15:33 let's say every day I usually try to 1:15:35 take different routes. Uh-huh. 1:15:36 >> And if I'm going to any new new place, 1:15:39 new city or just a new area, I try to 1:15:43 just look around and look at houses, 1:15:45 look at trees, look at the shapes of 1:15:46 leaves, look at all of these things and 1:15:48 make theories in my head. Why is this 1:15:52 leave round? Why is this one pointed? 1:15:54 >> And then I make make up theories in my 1:15:56 head to just amuse myself. And then when 1:15:59 I come home then I like whichever thing 1:16:02 I'm most curious about then I start uh 1:16:05 googling it and try to find out that 1:16:07 okay oh this theory no this was 1:16:09 completely wrong this is completely 1:16:10 right and it just keeps me so much more 1:16:12 curious about the world. 1:16:13 >> Yeah. 1:16:14 >> It helps me 1:16:15 >> well I would give you one wrinkle to 1:16:17 your exercise. So you take a different 1:16:18 route. 1:16:19 >> Yeah. 1:16:20 >> Try taking the same route but making 1:16:22 yourself observe things you had never 1:16:24 seen before on that same route. M 1:16:26 >> so my bike rides there I have only like 1:16:29 five different versions I can go on but 1:16:32 I take the same one and I'm always 1:16:34 looking for something I had never 1:16:36 noticed before 1:16:38 some strange tree growing out of the 1:16:40 ground. So one thing in the book I say 1:16:44 is everything you do is is is 1:16:46 languageoriented right? So you don't 1:16:49 look at a tree you just think of the 1:16:51 word tree. 1:16:52 >> Yeah. 1:16:52 >> The general category of tree. But look 1:16:55 at that strange thing emerging out of 1:16:58 the ground that doesn't have a brain but 1:17:01 is alive. It has its own strange 1:17:04 consciousness cuz trees do have a 1:17:06 consciousness. 1:17:07 If you came from another planet where 1:17:10 there there might be life but there are 1:17:11 no trees. What a fascinating weird 1:17:14 thing. And each one is different. There 1:17:17 may be the same tree but no two trees 1:17:19 are the same. Right. So I mean that's 1:17:22 part of the exercise that I try to do 1:17:25 that. 1:17:25 >> Okay. 1:17:26 >> Tell me the most interesting chapter 1:17:28 from your book which you feel is 1:17:30 interesting. 1:17:32 Well, the chapter I I'm personally um 1:17:36 most drawn to is one about animals. I 1:17:39 call it the interecies sublime. 1:17:42 And it's 1:17:44 so 1:17:46 a lot of the book I tell you that your 1:17:48 brain is wired a certain way and it 1:17:51 makes you think a certain way and you 1:17:53 take that for reality. 1:17:56 So when I'm meditating, I be try to make 1:17:59 myself aware of consciousness itself and 1:18:02 how it feels, right? And I tell myself 1:18:06 if I came from another planet, my brain 1:18:10 would be wired so differently, I 1:18:11 wouldn't have this consciousness. So 1:18:13 this consciousness has a feeling towards 1:18:16 it. It's like it's not inside of my 1:18:19 brain. It's not in the world. It's 1:18:20 nowhere. It's like the sky. It's empty. 1:18:23 What is the feeling of it? 1:18:25 But animals 1:18:27 have a different kind of consciousness. 1:18:30 Their brains are wired differently. Each 1:18:32 one has their senses are different. A 1:18:35 dog lives in a world of smells. 1:18:38 They can tell more things about the 1:18:41 world through smells than we can ever do 1:18:43 through our intelligence. They're 1:18:45 brilliant. They're philosophers, right? 1:18:49 Cats live in their own world. Bats live 1:18:51 in a world of sound, as dolphins. 1:18:54 Spiders are blind, but they live in a 1:18:57 world of vibrations. They can feel the 1:18:59 world. They understand the world through 1:19:00 vibrations. The point of this chapter is 1:19:05 you think that you understand the world, 1:19:07 but you're just seeing a version of what 1:19:09 your brain is telling you because your 1:19:11 brain is wired a certain way. Animals 1:19:14 are like alien beings on our planet. 1:19:17 We're so interested in science fiction 1:19:18 in things that don't re that don't exist 1:19:21 that are not real, but we're surrounded 1:19:23 by aliens, by space aliens, by spiders, 1:19:27 by bats, by butterflies, by dogs and 1:19:30 cats. They're insane. They're amazing. 1:19:33 They evolved over millions and millions 1:19:36 of years with their own consciousness. 1:19:38 And I give you exercises about how to 1:19:40 get outside of your consciousness and 1:19:43 enter into their world. And I have 1:19:45 examples of people who've done this with 1:19:47 octopuses, with whales, with wolves, and 1:19:51 with birds. 1:19:53 The second chapter that I'm most excited 1:19:54 about is one about history. And I'm 1:19:57 trying to tell you that [snorts] history 1:19:59 is not about like dead facts and things 1:20:03 that you read about in a book. People 1:20:06 500,000, 1:20:08 10,000 years ago were alive just like 1:20:10 you. They had emotions. They had 1:20:12 feelings. They had sensations. They had 1:20:14 dreams. 1:20:16 They were alive. Enter their world. 1:20:19 Enter into the past as if it's something 1:20:21 present. And I give you exercises on 1:20:23 that. And I recreate the past for you. 1:20:27 So for instance, I take you on a journey 1:20:30 through ancient cities. Ancient 1:20:33 Babylonia kind of fascinated me. And I 1:20:36 literally take you on a walk through the 1:20:38 city of ancient Babylonia. And I make 1:20:41 you aware 1:20:42 that you think New York is beautiful or 1:20:44 San Francisco, Los Angeles. These places 1:20:47 were unbelievably beautiful in a way we 1:20:51 can't even begin to comprehend. These 1:20:53 40ft statues, these ziggurats going up 1:20:57 into the sky, these buildings that were 1:20:59 all reflecting the sunlight in the same 1:21:01 way, these gods, the hanging gardens of 1:21:04 Babylon. If you were to transport 1:21:07 yourself there now and look and look how 1:21:08 strange it was, 1:21:11 my god, my world is so ugly and drab, 1:21:13 but these cities were unbelievable. They 1:21:15 were so beautiful, right? And then at 1:21:18 6:00 at night as the sun goes down in 1:21:20 ancient Babylonia, suddenly there's this 1:21:23 wild sexual energy where prostitutes, 1:21:26 male and female, are filling the streets 1:21:28 and everyone's having sex and there 1:21:30 these orgies going on even in temples. 1:21:34 I just want you to make the past come to 1:21:36 life and not see it as something dead. 1:21:37 And so those are the two chapters 1:21:40 that I love the most from the book. And 1:21:42 there are 12 of them. 12 chapters. 1:21:44 >> Nice. Give me an exercise. Give me one 1:21:47 exercise which helps me become better 1:21:51 with the world of history specifically 1:21:53 which you just told me. 1:21:54 >> Okay. Well, um, one of the exercises I 1:21:56 have is [snorts] if you can remember 1:21:59 the apartment or the house that you grew 1:22:01 up in originally, right? And the objects 1:22:05 that were there, right? Okay. So, the 1:22:08 exercise is to think about the house and 1:22:12 the furniture and the objects that were 1:22:14 there. Some of them were there before 1:22:17 you were born, right? 1:22:19 >> Yeah. 1:22:20 >> Okay. And they come from a world that 1:22:21 you never lived in. 1:22:23 >> True. the early 90s, the 80s, the 70s. 1:22:26 Your parents probably even have things 1:22:28 from the 60s, things that they inherited 1:22:30 from the 50s and 40s. Okay? There are 1:22:33 objects in your house that were there 1:22:35 before you were born and they have a 1:22:38 style to them that's alien to you 1:22:40 because it's not the world that you 1:22:42 lived in, right? They they inherited 1:22:44 they lived before you were born. Do you 1:22:46 understand what that means? You were 1:22:48 literally not existing. You were dead. 1:22:49 You were not a creature. But these 1:22:51 objects were there before you. They 1:22:54 carry a weird energy and a weird life to 1:22:56 them because they're signs of the past 1:22:59 and it's sort of a a twilight zone. 1:23:03 [snorts] So they're things that you can 1:23:04 remember that you lived with, but they 1:23:07 come from a period before you were born. 1:23:09 And so they have an energy to them. And 1:23:12 so I'm trying to show you that the past 1:23:14 is like lives in these objects and they 1:23:17 have a life of their own. and the life 1:23:20 of their own is the past and they're 1:23:22 full of this weird energy. You can do 1:23:25 that with movies. You can look at movies 1:23:27 from the 1980s and you could go, "This 1:23:30 is when my parents were young and 1:23:32 exciting and happening and they first 1:23:34 met and they were like in their 20s, 1:23:36 right? And they had these weird fashions 1:23:38 and these weird hairstyles and these 1:23:40 clothes. You can look at the movie and 1:23:42 go, "This was the world before I was 1:23:44 born." 1:23:46 It's strange yet it's familiar because 1:23:49 there was something still like that when 1:23:51 when I was living, right? So that I'm 1:23:54 trying to give you a sense of what the 1:23:56 past was like as something alive, not 1:23:59 dead. And it's carried in these objects. 1:24:01 And so then when you go to a museum or 1:24:04 you see photographs from the past, you 1:24:06 can go through the same exercise and see 1:24:08 them as something that was once very 1:24:10 much alive. So that's one of my 1:24:12 exercises. 1:24:13 >> And what happens if I do that? 1:24:16 Well 1:24:18 um 1:24:21 first of all you become aware of another 1:24:25 world. So you the world now is something 1:24:30 that you take for granted that um it it 1:24:34 it's like this is how things are right 1:24:38 but the world was different 50 years ago 1:24:41 was very different had a different 1:24:43 energy a different cultural moment a 1:24:45 different zitgeist and so by connecting 1:24:48 to the past you become more of a human 1:24:52 the problem I think that a lot of people 1:24:54 have nowadays I read a lot of history. 1:24:56 Okay, I'm not good at many things, Raj. 1:24:59 I have many weaknesses and flaws, but I 1:25:01 read a lot of history. I understand 1:25:04 history on a very deep level. And it 1:25:06 gives me a perspective on life and the 1:25:09 world that is very different if you 1:25:11 don't understand history. If you don't 1:25:12 understand it, it expands my mind. It 1:25:15 makes me aware that there are other ways 1:25:16 of thinking, other ways of of behaving 1:25:19 in the world, different customs, 1:25:21 different cultures. 1:25:22 Going through this exercise takes you 1:25:24 out of your narrow little moment in the 1:25:26 present and makes you aware of the world 1:25:29 before you were alive, but that still 1:25:31 has some spirit to it. Still has some 1:25:33 livveness to it. So, it's opening your 1:25:36 mind up to a different world, to a 1:25:37 different reality, the world of your 1:25:40 parents. 1:25:41 >> It's not a world that's dead. It's a 1:25:43 world they are alive. They they raised 1:25:45 you. And so, you're entering into their 1:25:47 world. And you're entering into the 1:25:48 world of your grandparents. 1:25:50 I don't know if you don't find that 1:25:52 exciting. There's nothing I can I can do 1:25:54 that's going to make it for to me. 1:25:55 >> I find it exciting. 1:25:56 >> And into the past is one of the most 1:25:59 immense [clears throat] experiences. 1:26:00 >> Yeah. I love I love both of these things 1:26:02 because 1:26:03 >> it gives me a perspective of what my 1:26:06 parents or grandparents 1:26:09 must be going through or living through. 1:26:12 And the second I think that's even more 1:26:15 fascinating exercise that I live in some 1:26:18 in some civilization which was thousands 1:26:20 of years ago and then I try to 1:26:22 understand what happens when the sun 1:26:25 rises and when the sun sets and I try 1:26:27 I'm trying to experience it by just 1:26:31 expanding my imagination 1:26:33 >> and that helps me a lot and helps me see 1:26:36 things today from a different 1:26:37 perspective and not just in one 1:26:38 perspective. 1:26:39 >> Well, that's what the my book is about. 1:26:41 But look at the sun someday. Just stare 1:26:44 up at the sun and realize 1:26:47 that 20,000 years ago, our ancestors 1:26:50 back in the Paleolithic era were looking 1:26:52 at the same thing and having strange 1:26:55 sensations from it because the sun is a 1:26:58 very strange thing you take for granted. 1:27:01 It's a star that at some point will 1:27:03 disappear. And in one of my chapters, I 1:27:06 described the birth of our son. 1:27:09 But they were having the same sensation 1:27:11 20,000 years ago that you can have. I 1:27:14 don't know. For me, that's that's a very 1:27:16 powerful thought. 1:27:17 >> How do you become the most powerful 1:27:19 person in the room? 1:27:21 >> Okay. Well, um, in the laws of human 1:27:24 nature, I have a chapter on nonverbal 1:27:28 communication and I talk about the 1:27:31 qualities 1:27:32 that emanate power 1:27:35 in people. 1:27:37 So if you read that chapter and you 1:27:39 study that you will understand the 1:27:41 qualities that you should have. So first 1:27:44 of all a powerful person is not like the 1:27:49 is not like looking everywhere. It's not 1:27:52 like cuz that's a sign of nervousness 1:27:54 like oh are people looking at me? People 1:27:56 noticing me. Okay. So you're you're 1:27:58 controlling your facial expressions. 1:28:00 You're not you're not looking 1:28:02 everywhere. you're you're have a focus 1:28:04 on something in particular, a particular 1:28:06 person, a point in the room. Okay? You 1:28:09 have a posture that um you're not like 1:28:14 you feel confident. You have a 1:28:16 particular pose. And so I say that a 1:28:19 powerful person is relaxed, 1:28:22 right? So when you enter that room, you 1:28:25 are relaxed. You're not nervous. You're 1:28:28 not looking for attention. You're not 1:28:29 wondering what people think about you. 1:28:32 You're inside your body. You're calm and 1:28:34 you're confident and you're relaxed. 1:28:36 That relaxed quality is incredibly 1:28:39 powerful, incredibly attractive because 1:28:42 if you enter a room and you're a 1:28:44 stranger or people don't know you, 1:28:47 everyone's nervous. Everyone naturally 1:28:49 is nervous, but you're not. You're calm. 1:28:51 You're not looking everywhere. You're 1:28:53 not touching yourself. You're not 1:28:54 talking a lot. You're relaxed. You're 1:28:57 going to draw a lot of attention, a lot 1:28:59 of power. Okay? And don't talk a lot. 1:29:03 Control your words. Have a sense of 1:29:06 mystery. So when I when we talked about 1:29:09 withdraw and absence, 1:29:13 you can be in a room but also slightly 1:29:15 absent. How? Well, you're not trying so 1:29:20 hard to get attention. You're almost 1:29:22 stepping back and letting people come to 1:29:25 you instead of you having to go out and 1:29:27 get them. So, you're inwardly stepping 1:29:30 back and people are drawn to you in that 1:29:34 way. If you're always like in their face 1:29:36 trying to get them to talk to you, but 1:29:38 you're stepping back and you're the one 1:29:40 kind of inside your own body and 1:29:42 commanding, they're going to come to you 1:29:44 and they're going to want to talk to 1:29:45 you. So, that sense of withdrawal of 1:29:49 retreating is very, very powerful. I 1:29:52 told you in that room with 50 Cent. 1:29:56 Of course, it's a little bit skewed 1:29:57 because he's 50 Cent. 1:29:59 >> Exactly. 1:29:59 >> So, I'm sorry. But the fact that he 1:30:02 wasn't talking at all, that he was so 1:30:04 quiet and had that kind of enigmatic 1:30:07 smile on his face, being sort of 1:30:09 mysterious and enigmatic is very 1:30:11 powerful. Made everybody like, "What's 1:30:14 he thinking? What's he doing? What's he 1:30:15 up to?" So, a little sense of mystery. 1:30:18 You're not obvious and you're relaxed 1:30:20 and in control. I think that will 1:30:22 command attention when you enter that 1:30:23 room. 1:30:24 >> Let's say you're not someone who's 1:30:26 popular and famous. You're an average 1:30:29 person. You're on your journey to become 1:30:31 someone exceptional. You enter a room. 1:30:34 You enter a social gathering and you're 1:30:36 confident. You're relaxed. And what do 1:30:38 you do? You just stand in the corner and 1:30:39 do nothing and just look at people. 1:30:42 That's going to make it very weird, 1:30:44 right? You're just standing alone. 1:30:48 Well, I mean, you can go up to somebody 1:30:52 if you recognize that there's a person 1:30:54 that's like um maybe they're kind of 1:30:57 powerful or interesting, you can go up 1:30:59 to them. But, uh I mean, you're asking 1:31:03 kind of a slightly impossible question 1:31:06 because 1:31:08 you can't command a room without a 1:31:10 reputation of some sort. You have a 1:31:12 past. People know you. If there's just 1:31:15 strangers, what I'm telling you will 1:31:18 have some power, will have some effect. 1:31:20 But yeah, if you just walk into the room 1:31:22 and you just relax and you don't do 1:31:24 anything, okay, I I agree with you, 1:31:27 right? But normally in normal life, 1:31:31 people have reputations. 1:31:33 So when 50 Cent enters the room, wow, 1:31:37 when Robert Green when he was 20 years 1:31:39 old enter the room, who cares about him, 1:31:41 right? So your reputation carries a lot 1:31:44 of power behind it. 1:31:46 >> How do you not feel powerless and 1:31:48 insecure in front of a very powerful 1:31:50 person? 1:31:52 >> I tell you and I know this because I 1:31:54 have to interact sometimes with powerful 1:31:56 people by being calm and relaxed and not 1:32:01 asking them a million questions and not 1:32:04 acting like I think they're a god. I 1:32:07 feel like they're a human being. So when 1:32:09 I met 50, I was very normal and natural 1:32:13 around him. And I talked to him like I I 1:32:16 talked to anybody. And boy was that kind 1:32:18 of powerful for him cuz he was expecting 1:32:20 me to be all weird and Henry Kissinger-l 1:32:23 like with him or Machavevelian. And 1:32:25 instead I was talking to him about 1:32:27 strategy and and how he was strategizing 1:32:30 with his record albums. that are just 1:32:33 just being a normal human being because 1:32:35 they're so used to people 1:32:38 famous celebrities are so used to people 1:32:40 being weird around them and being 1:32:42 intimidated and being insecure and not 1:32:45 knowing when someone's natural around 1:32:48 them and relaxed. Wow, that's that's 1:32:52 really interesting because that mean 1:32:53 almost makes it seem like you're equals 1:32:58 >> right now. could be a little bit 1:32:59 insulting if you're not careful. So, 1:33:02 it's not like you're equals because I'm 1:33:04 as powerful as 50, but it's equal as 1:33:07 human beings and I'm not in really 1:33:10 intimidated by you. I actually want to 1:33:12 talk to you about regular things. If you 1:33:14 do that in the right way, it can be very 1:33:16 powerful. It could also be taken the 1:33:18 wrong way too. So, you have to be 1:33:19 careful. 1:33:20 >> When did you feel the most powerless in 1:33:23 your life? 1:33:26 Well, um, 1:33:29 prior to writing the 48 laws of power, 1:33:32 um, I had been working in many different 1:33:36 jobs. Like my girlfriend, my wife, and I 1:33:38 counted it must have been 60 different 1:33:40 jobs. I couldn't I couldn't hold any job 1:33:44 down because I wasn't happy. I wanted to 1:33:47 be a writer 1:33:49 and I had no success. I tried 1:33:52 journalism. I tried writing novels. I 1:33:54 tried working in Hollywood. And so in 1:33:57 the '9s, in the mid '9s, 1:33:59 I fell into a very deep depression 1:34:02 because my life wasn't going anywhere. 1:34:04 And that's when I felt very, very 1:34:07 helpless. 1:34:08 >> Not this time. 1:34:10 >> This time I feel physically helpless. 1:34:14 That time I felt mentally kind of 1:34:16 helpless. 1:34:17 >> And what was worse? 1:34:19 >> It's a good question. I think the 1:34:22 depression in the '9s was worse because 1:34:26 I now have all of this success that I 1:34:29 never had before. So having my body kind 1:34:33 of destroyed, at least I have 1:34:36 accomplished something. I've achieved so 1:34:38 I could die and I and I I could die 1:34:40 happy because I did what I wanted to do. 1:34:43 >> But back in the '9s, 1:34:46 it was it was very bad time for me. It's 1:34:49 very fascinating that you ranked 1:34:53 psychological help helplessness 1:34:57 above then physical helplessness. 1:35:01 Yeah. Because um physically you know you 1:35:05 can do things you can do therapy you can 1:35:10 try like the hybraric chamber you can 1:35:13 practice walking you can deal with it. I 1:35:16 got a um because I was very physical. I 1:35:20 did a lot of exercise. I got a um a 1:35:24 special kind of bicycle. It's called a 1:35:27 recumbent bike. 1:35:29 And I live near this giant park and I'm 1:35:32 able to go ride up into yesterday I took 1:35:34 a 2-hour bike ride way up into these 1:35:36 hills. Physically I can deal with it. I 1:35:39 can deal with it. It's It's not fun. It 1:35:42 it was a big loss for me but I can 1:35:45 handle it. But the psychological 1:35:48 you don't know what to do. You don't 1:35:50 know where to turn. You feel I knew that 1:35:53 I had 1:35:55 something important to express to the 1:35:57 world. I have a strange way of thinking. 1:36:00 I had lots of experiences and I knew 1:36:03 that there was something inside of me 1:36:05 but I couldn't connect it to anything. I 1:36:07 couldn't get it out into the world and 1:36:10 that was that that was worse I think 1:36:12 because there was nothing I could do you 1:36:15 know and I was very fortunate to meet a 1:36:18 man in 1995 1:36:22 who packages books 1:36:25 and he's basically the one who kind of 1:36:27 saved my life because he gave me the 1:36:30 opportunity to write the 48 laws of 1:36:31 power. So I think that was worse than 1:36:34 what I'm going through now in in a 1:36:36 strange way. Yeah. 1:36:38 >> You know, there was a time in my life 1:36:40 where [snorts] 1:36:42 this was 5 and a half years ago where I 1:36:47 was feeling completely helpless and 1:36:49 powerless and psychologically How old 1:36:51 are you, Raj? I'm just curious. 1:36:52 >> I'm 29 now. 1:36:53 >> Wow, you're so young. Okay, go on. I'm 1:36:56 sorry. So there was a point where I was 1:37:00 I was leaving my home and in India you 1:37:03 live with your parents you don't move 1:37:04 out it's not a very normal thing to do 1:37:07 >> right and it's like almost seen as a bad 1:37:10 thing if you leave your parents and live 1:37:11 somewhere something I I wanted to leave 1:37:13 and start something of my own 1:37:17 and that was a point where I felt 1:37:20 really helpless in my head because I 1:37:22 didn't know what to do the idea of 1:37:25 podcast or anything was not in my head 1:37:27 at all and 1:37:30 I have to thank you because I used to 1:37:32 read like a lot of small snippets which 1:37:35 was just roaming around on internet by 1:37:37 you. 1:37:38 >> I'm sorry what was that about 1:37:39 >> like small snippets like tweets or like 1:37:41 small quotes of you 1:37:43 >> which were roaming around on the 1:37:44 internet all around. Uh-huh. 1:37:46 >> That helped me a lot 1:37:47 >> really 1:37:48 >> like and I'm so grateful because I I 1:37:53 think in my head when I look back and 1:37:55 when I think about those days one of the 1:37:58 big reasons I got the courage to do 1:38:00 certain things was uh your quotes 1:38:04 >> really. 1:38:05 >> So thank you so much for 1:38:06 >> Oh did you get the book? 1:38:08 >> Yeah. So I read I read the seduction I 1:38:11 read art of war. I read bits of mastery. 1:38:14 I read 48 laws of power. I was like a 1:38:16 Robert Green junkie. [laughter] 1:38:18 >> Wow. Wow. 1:38:20 >> That's very good. 1:38:22 >> Even right now couple of months ago, 1:38:24 [snorts] there was a big decision in my 1:38:26 life that I wanted to take and I've been 1:38:28 dabbling around that decision since last 1:38:30 uh one year or so 1:38:33 and I was going through this 1:38:34 frustration. I'm like I really don't 1:38:36 know what to do and I read a tweet by 1:38:38 you. I'm paraphrasing it but it was 1:38:41 something around death ground like if 1:38:44 you are not on the death ground you 1:38:46 can't actually go out and win and that 1:38:48 was the day we took a decision to just 1:38:51 do [snorts] something we were scared of. 1:38:53 Do you think every young person at some 1:38:55 point to become someone really big 1:38:58 should put themselves in a death crown 1:39:00 should leave everything and should start 1:39:03 somewhere new. 1:39:05 >> Well it depends. Some people can't 1:39:07 handle it. You know, some people are so 1:39:10 much anxiety 1:39:12 and they've had issues from early 1:39:14 childhood and they can't handle it. If 1:39:16 they if you put them on death ground, 1:39:18 they would just destroy themselves. It 1:39:20 would be too powerful, right? 1:39:23 So, you need to have a certain degree of 1:39:26 inner strength, which you probably had 1:39:28 even when you were 24 and you were 1:39:30 feeling helpless. So just to backtrack, 1:39:33 even when I felt helpless and desperate 1:39:36 in the '9s, I never gave up on myself 1:39:40 because I knew that there was something 1:39:42 I could express to the world. You have 1:39:45 something like that in yourself. So if 1:39:47 you have a foundation, 1:39:49 a degree of inner strength, then the 1:39:51 death ground is fantastic for you. But 1:39:53 if inside you're sort of weak or you're 1:39:56 soft, and I'm not criticizing because 1:39:58 this world is a hard place, then death 1:40:01 ground could just absolutely destroy 1:40:03 you. So it just depends on the 1:40:05 individual. But I would advocate for a 1:40:08 lot of young people who don't know any 1:40:11 don't have any direction who feel lost 1:40:13 in this world to try that if they can 1:40:16 because I think it could if you feel 1:40:19 like 1:40:21 tomorrow I could die. I'm 25 years old. 1:40:24 I've gone to college. I have these 1:40:26 ideas, these businesses I want to start, 1:40:30 but it could all end tomorrow. I could 1:40:31 have a terrible illness. I could die. I 1:40:34 better get going. I better get moving. 1:40:36 Yeah, it could be huge motivational 1:40:38 factor. 1:40:39 >> But how to build inner strength? That's 1:40:41 the most difficult part. How to build 1:40:44 inner strength? 1:40:47 >> Well, it's one thing you cannot fake, 1:40:51 right? 1:40:52 >> Yeah. 1:40:52 >> And you can't take a drug for it. 1:40:54 There's no hack. There's no app. There's 1:40:57 nothing on the internet that's going to 1:40:59 give it for you. It can only come from 1:41:01 you. But it has to be built up slowly. 1:41:05 It has to come from doing things in the 1:41:07 world, from trying things, from trying 1:41:10 to start a podcast, from trying to go to 1:41:12 the university and getting a degree. You 1:41:15 fail, but then you realize, well, I can 1:41:18 pick myself back up. I can I can get 1:41:21 back up and I can try again. I can do 1:41:23 something else. It builds you build some 1:41:25 confidence in yourself slowly slowly, 1:41:29 day by day by day. If you're patient and 1:41:32 you don't give up, you have down moments 1:41:34 but then you get up. Then you have down 1:41:36 moments and you get up, you're going to 1:41:38 build that inner strength. It's 1:41:39 resilience. That is the word. You can 1:41:42 bounce back from adverse situations, 1:41:45 right? And so I can say for writing this 1:41:49 book, you know, for seven years in the 1:41:52 beginning, I just couldn't imagine 1:41:55 accomplishing it because it was so there 1:41:58 was so much difficulty. 1:42:00 But as I started ga going the second 1:42:03 year, the third year, the fourth year 1:42:04 and I was making progress, I started 1:42:06 developing a kind of inner strength and 1:42:09 and confidence in myself. 1:42:12 >> So you have to build confidence in 1:42:14 yourself, but it can't come from talking 1:42:16 or thinking or hanging out with your 1:42:19 friends. It can only come from doing 1:42:21 things in the world and failing and 1:42:24 having tough times and things going bad 1:42:27 and doubting yourself. getting back up. 1:42:29 It has to be through your actions, not 1:42:31 through a lot of talk. 1:42:34 >> True. Here's the last question that I 1:42:36 ask all my guests. 1:42:37 >> Is these are [snorts] 1:42:40 >> What is the cost of becoming Robert 1:42:43 Green? 1:42:46 >> Well, um 1:42:50 that people think I have an answer to 1:42:52 everything and I don't. 1:42:54 Sometimes I'm just stupid and sometimes 1:42:56 I don't have an answer. And you ask me a 1:42:59 question and I kind of blather and I 1:43:01 give this thing but I'm actually kind of 1:43:03 just covering up my ignorance. I don't 1:43:06 know everything. I have gaps, right? And 1:43:09 so sometimes 1:43:11 if I think about it, I come up with a 1:43:14 good answer. But on the moment I don't 1:43:16 have any answers. So the cost of it is 1:43:19 that people think I know a lot more than 1:43:21 I actually do know. So that's the 1:43:23 problem. But do you sacrifice personally 1:43:26 anything in life to become who you are 1:43:28 today or 1:43:30 the kind of successful person you have 1:43:32 become? 1:43:32 >> Well, 1:43:34 I write these books that are like I'm 1:43:37 not bragging but they're like marathons. 1:43:39 This last book took seven years. The 1:43:41 laws of human nature took six years and 1:43:44 it led to my stroke cuz it was so 1:43:45 intense. Mastery took me five. They keep 1:43:48 getting longer and longer. They've worn 1:43:51 my body down. They've just made me age. 1:43:54 They've just really sucked a lot of 1:43:57 energy out of them, out of me. So, the 1:44:00 cost has been physical, right? And um 1:44:05 you know, when I wrote the 48 laws of 1:44:07 power, I was 38, 37. I was young, 1:44:11 relatively young. I was bursting with 1:44:13 energy. I wrote that book in 2 years. I 1:44:17 could never do that now. So the cost has 1:44:20 been slowing down, slowing down, taking 1:44:25 more and more time and physically 1:44:28 draining myself. So um but on the other 1:44:32 hand, I have a very rich life. So I I 1:44:35 cannot complain. 1:44:37 >> Absolutely. Thank you so much. 1:44:39 >> Thank you. 1:44:39 >> Thank you for spending time with me. It 1:44:41 was honor to have you. 1:44:42 >> Oh yeah. Well, we'll have to do it 1:44:43 again. 1:44:44 >> Absolutely. It would be my honor again. 1:44:46 Whenever you tell me you're free, I'll 1:44:48 come down. 1:44:49 >> Hello. 1:44:49 >> Hi. You're right. 1:44:51 >> Yes. 1:44:51 >> Very nice. My pleasure. 1:44:52 >> Pleasure meeting you, sir. 1:44:54 >> Is there any feedback for me? How can I 1:44:56 do this better? 1:44:58 >> You have a very good style. You have a 1:45:00 very good style. Um, I can't think of 1:45:04 any. And first of all, that's a very 1:45:05 good question. instead of uh asking like 1:45:09 a general question, if you could make me 1:45:12 make it a little more specific with a 1:45:14 particular scenario, 1:45:17 so it's easier to answer, 1:45:20 >> but 1:45:22 I'm I'm sorry, but I have really no 1:45:23 other comments because of you're you're 1:45:25 a great interviewer. 1:45:27 >> I'll do that next time. Every question 1:45:29 is going to be specific. Not every 1:45:30 question. 1:45:30 >> It's a great feedback. Thank you so 1:45:32 much. 1:45:32 >> No, no, no. You're welcome. You're very 1:45:33 welcome. Thank you for watching this 1:45:35 episode till the end. We would love to 1:45:37 know what you liked or disliked about 1:45:39 this episode and which guests you would 1:45:42 like to see on the show. Let us know in 1:45:44 the comments. Your feedback help us 1:45:46 improve and make every episode a little 1:45:49 better. I'll see you next time. Until 1:45:51 then, keep figuring out.