0:00 I sounded like a crazy person. I was 0:01 like, "This is destiny." Like, I it's 0:03 going to happen. This would be a great 0:05 info for every UFN team that in one 0:09 month I more than tripled my salary at 0:12 Microsoft. And uh if I'm on a date, I 0:15 And then the map goes down, date's over. 0:18 I'll see you. Pay for the check. I'm out 0:19 of there. You know, check please. 0:21 Following the trend of these uh red vers 0:23 maps. So, we made like a heroes version 0:25 and that made like I don't know like 0:27 almost 100K and we're like okay this is 0:29 great like how you don't have to answer 0:31 this by the way. Welcome to the Creative 0:33 Juice podcast. Today we have an 0:35 exceptional guest who has redefined the 0:37 world of Fortnite creative. Please join 0:39 me in welcoming Michael Ha, wildly known 0:42 as Berto. He is a trailblazer who left a 0:44 secure career as a software engineer at 0:47 Microsoft to pursue his passion 0:49 full-time. With his groundbreaking 0:51 projects, miniame box PvP, Berto and his 0:54 co-owner, Dagwami have created one of 0:56 the most popular and innovative 0:58 experiences in Fortnite Creative. Their 1:00 map consistently evolves with fresh 1:03 community-driven updates and has even 1:04 attracted major collaboration with 1:06 events like US Open, Off-White, Ichu, 1:09 and their latest collab with actor 1:11 Robert Patterson's new movie Mickey 17. 1:14 With a massive following on Tik Tok and 1:16 YouTube, Berto not only crafts viral 1:19 content, but also inspires creators to 1:21 think big. Let's dive into his story and 1:23 explore what fuels his creative juice. 1:26 This is creative juice. How's it going, 1:29 Berto? Thank you so much for being the 1:31 first guest on the Creative Juice 1:33 podcast. Thank you so much for um 1:35 agreeing to come on. How you doing? I'm 1:37 good. Super honored could be the first 1:38 guest. Hopefully I have some good 1:40 answers for you. I'm sure you do. I'm 1:42 sure you do. Um you've uh done things in 1:45 Fortnite Creative and UFN that very few 1:47 have. And I'm super excited to kind of 1:49 dig into your success on this platform 1:52 from basically starting a game after UFN 1:55 came out and made a successful game. Not 1:58 only that, but also have been live 1:59 obviously and keeping it going this 2:01 long, which I don't I think very few 2:03 maps have been able to do and succeed 2:05 at. And so, uh, again, just super 2:06 excited to have you. And yeah, let's 2:08 let's just jump in. So this first 2:10 question again is is this is kind of I 2:12 really wanted to ask this question cuz 2:14 it's it's really interesting and you 2:15 kind of went full allin on on this as 2:18 well which is kind of crazy to see the 2:20 success you've uh been able to do 2:22 because of this but you left a very 2:24 stable job at Microsoft to dive into 2:27 full into Fortnite creative full-time. 2:29 So what was the moment or inspiration 2:31 that made you take that leap? Yeah. No, 2:33 I get this question asked like from 2:35 other creators too like how did you 2:37 know? I wish it was uh very complicated, 2:39 but it was I was in one month I more 2:42 than tripled my salary at Microsoft. And 2:44 uh wild. So I was losing money staying 2:47 at Microsoft. Like I was actually one 2:49 month away from getting promoted to 2:50 senior engineer, which I really wanted, 2:51 but it was like at that point once once 2:53 the payout cuz um the payout you get 2:55 like an estimated number, but once that 2:57 number was real, like it was in our bank 2:59 account, it was like I quit the next day 3:01 and moved to Vegas. So it's not a 3:03 complicated answer. It's like if anyone 3:04 got that it would be like, "Oh, I have 3:06 to do that." But it was a lot of anxiety 3:08 is like, is this number real? Like, can 3:10 this be real? And Yeah. Yeah. How long 3:12 did it did it take for you to finally 3:14 kind of get over that like, oh, wait a 3:16 sec, like I don't have this like, you 3:17 know, a full-time job and benefits and 3:20 like stable income to get over that like 3:22 that feel like we've all been in the rat 3:24 race, right? Yeah, I know. That was so 3:26 weird. That was like a good month or two 3:28 of just like, oh, wait, I have to buy my 3:29 own insurance. I have to like cancel 3:31 like some of my plans. I don't can't 3:33 look at like the stock. I don't know. It 3:35 was a very uh it was a very weird month 3:37 like buying all this extra stuff that 3:38 I've never even like thought about that 3:40 like that job just like this nice secure 3:42 job just handles for you. And the thing 3:44 I missed the most I guess at Microsoft 3:45 was definitely like the free stuff going 3:47 to work meeting people and then like 3:49 free gym free lunch. Now I know not 3:51 every job has that but it was really 3:52 cool. So I kind of miss that dayto-day. 3:55 I bet. Yeah. I I mean I'm sure some some 3:57 some jobs have that but yeah not not at 3:59 all. Well, like is there anybody that 4:00 you still keep in contact with that's 4:02 kind of like saw your seen your journey 4:04 or or any of that? Yeah, on LinkedIn I 4:06 have a lot of Microsoft uh co-workers 4:09 that just always like my stuff and 4:11 they're like, "Oh, keep going." But um 4:13 yeah, I guess I was even before I made 4:16 box, I knew in my heart that like this 4:19 was going to work out. Like I'm probably 4:20 going to have to quit Microsoft. Like I 4:21 didn't know when. I didn't know it was 4:23 going to be that soon, but like you 4:24 should have just seen like I sounded 4:26 like a crazy person. I was like this is 4:28 destiny. like it's going to happen. It's 4:30 just it's just a matter of when, not if. 4:32 And it did happen like within 2 months. 4:34 That's crazy. Okay. And you the thing is 4:37 too, like I think what's kind of great 4:39 about this story is probably nine out of 4:41 10 people are more like excited to quit 4:43 their job and like you know, I can't 4:44 wait. I've been dreaming of this moment 4:46 to quit. And you that was opposite like 4:48 you've loved this job. It just, you 4:50 know, other opportunities came. How you 4:52 don't have to answer this by the way, 4:53 but like how was like how did it go the 4:56 conversation like leaving your job I 4:58 guess? How how did that go or the 4:59 buildup or like thinking that? Yeah. No, 5:01 I was like all right well my boss just 5:03 said I might get promoted next month. So 5:06 how do I go about this? You know I'm 5:07 just like but no everyone um on the team 5:11 they were so excited cuz it's not like 5:12 I'm leaving to like a competitor like 5:14 Google's team or that I wasn't like 5:16 interviewing across places. I just my 5:19 side hustle just blew up so much that 5:22 everyone was so happy for me. So, um 5:24 definitely a little anx like telling my 5:26 boss and stuff, but like my whole team 5:28 would just like celebrate like, "Oh, 5:29 this is so this is like everyone's dream 5:31 though." No, for sure. So, all right, 5:34 let's let's get into miniame box PvP 5:36 now. So, I really want to understand 5:39 kind of the journey of of this map, kind 5:41 of its inception. Can you walk us 5:43 through how you created miniame box PVP? 5:46 100%. Should I start from the very 5:47 beginning or just this map in general? 5:49 What led to it that yeah the very 5:51 beginning what led to me like yeah so 5:53 when I was a engineer at Microsoft I 5:55 also as a side hustle I have like 3 5:56 million followers 2 million on Tik Tok 1 5:58 million on YouTube so I post these 6:00 videos generally mythbusters nothing to 6:02 do with creative but because I have a 6:04 big channel there are a lot of the map 6:06 creators that used to pay me they used 6:07 to pay me a lot that I thought I was 6:09 like this is like a lot of money for 6:11 like an hour one of them. Yeah. Yeah. 6:13 Exactly. I was like all right like this 6:15 is this is a great amount of money and 6:17 then this is uh very discussed in the 6:19 community. It became a topic of just 6:21 like how much people were making and 6:23 that became open which is good and bad 6:26 because then I saw it and I was like 6:27 wait I'm actually getting 6:29 scammed like it became a big reversal 6:32 like I thought I was scamming them but I 6:33 was like oh my gosh they're I'm not 6:36 going to name the creator but I was like 6:37 hey I'm doubling my prices and they were 6:39 like what and I'm like yeah I I mean I'm 6:42 just doubling it just makes sense like I 6:44 just gave you a viral video like if 6:45 anything I should be quadrupling it and 6:47 then he said no and then I started 6:49 learning verse that day and then me and 6:52 my partner Dag won me. So we both have 6:54 pretty big short form content which at 6:56 the time was the most valuable thing and 6:57 it's arguably still the most valuable. 6:59 It's just a little bit saturated in the 7:01 market right now. But we had we have 7:03 these channels that we do and they're 7:04 like let's just go make our own map. So 7:05 we made our first map. It did okay. It 7:07 made 10,000. I was just learning verse. 7:10 I made something really basic. Second 7:12 map following the trend of these uh red 7:14 verse blue maps. So, we made like a 7:15 heroes version and that made like I 7:18 don't know like almost 100k and we're 7:19 like okay this is great like this is 7:21 like and that was like my second map you 7:23 know I've ever made and like I and we 7:25 were talking this you were I want to I 7:27 want to bring this say this because this 7:29 was not after like those kind of those 7:31 were popular but you kind of started the 7:33 genre a little bit at that time this was 7:35 before that that genre really took off 7:37 and now we've seen thousands of of those 7:39 type of maps. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was 7:40 like early on there was like trying to 7:42 like I think something important is like 7:44 we see the trends, we're trying to like 7:45 capitalize and like we want to be like 7:47 an improved version and then there's 7:49 like this this kind of starting trend. 7:51 There's like a heroes box P VP which was 7:53 super popular. we'd see like a popular 7:55 version that we're like how so this is 7:57 popular like what do we think is like a 7:59 good spin-off that like is unique but 8:02 like we could do and we were thinking of 8:04 LTM PvP cuz everyone misses LTMs and 8:07 then so I was like okay so we're going 8:08 to have one shot we're going to have uh 8:10 this one and then it's like why are we 8:12 limiting ourselves to like Fortnite LTMs 8:14 oh then we added stuff like an invisible 8:17 mode color switch and we just went all 8:19 and so it's like what does this fit and 8:21 it's like mini game box CP and I 8:23 remember like when I had this idea. I 8:24 like I was like I cannot like this is 8:26 too good of an idea. I cannot let it get 8:28 stolen. So I like after 2 weeks once it 8:30 was like playable I was like get it out 8:31 there. Even though the code was 8:32 terrible, we just like have to get it 8:34 out there cuz like it's too good for 8:35 viral videos. It's too good for like 8:37 everything. So it's like get it out. And 8:38 yeah, it it did well like instantly. 8:40 Like even like in the first 10 minutes, 8:42 I think it was at 3,000 players. Dude, 8:44 that's amazing. First 10 minutes to 8:46 discover. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's 8:48 that's insane. That's insane. Can you 8:50 think back like what were some 8:52 challenges you you had during I mean 8:55 maybe during release or kind of shortly 8:57 after um w with the game? Um there were 9:00 definitely bugs at the start where like 9:03 people would spawn in the same box but 9:04 like honestly like the first two months 9:06 were pretty it was all happy. No no no 9:09 real like major issues that was hurting 9:11 us like discover loved us everything 9:13 loved us like our map people like loved 9:15 it like genuine feedback we loved it. I 9:18 think that that was our best the core 9:19 thing is like on my other maps I play 9:22 for like 30 minutes like all right 9:23 whatever. 9:25 This map I could literally play for like 9:27 3 hours like and have fun which is like 9:29 very like that's a I play Fortnite so 9:32 it's like that was great. That's that's 9:34 just it right if you if you don't want 9:36 to play your own game like who why would 9:39 other people want to play it right? So 9:40 no that that is that is huge. So, I kind 9:43 of mentioned it briefly, but like 9:45 miniame is like so probably the best 9:48 live ops game I've ever seen in this 9:50 platform. And so, I want to kind of 9:53 touch on that. When you're coming up 9:54 with these new miniame ideas, like where 9:57 do you find that spark of creativity? 9:59 Uh, I actually look at a lot of other 10:02 games. So, I'd say I come up with like a 10:05 grand list of ideas from all these games 10:07 I played when I was a kid. Halo was like 10:10 I didn't even know UGC was a term, but I 10:13 played tons of Halo UGC games like 10:15 Infection and stuff, Halo. And then we 10:17 look at Roblox, we look at Minecraft, we 10:19 look at this. A lot of them don't fit 10:20 the Fortnite mold. So sometimes it's 10:22 like adjusting, but like I'll be like, 10:24 "Oh, I like all these games." I'll give 10:25 a list and then and I'll go with DAG and 10:27 then we'll like narrow that list of like 10:29 what we want and then we kind of put on 10:30 a calendar like, "Okay, what's we try to 10:33 make it hard, easy, hard, easy, hard, 10:35 easy." So if some takes longer, like we 10:37 have a little buffer room. So hard, 10:38 easy. Um, and that's that's generally 10:41 the process of like looking at other 10:42 games, what's popular, and putting it on 10:44 a Fortnite spin on it. Okay, that's very 10:46 cool. Is is that is that hard? Has it 10:49 been like harder to do as the game goes 10:51 on? You guys have a huge list of what 10:54 knowing what you're doing or is it just 10:55 kind of like a little bit of both? You 10:57 have a list and then also you see an a 10:59 viral idea like, oh, we got to do this. 11:00 Yeah, if we see a viral deal, it's like 11:02 we usually do do that. Like it's like, 11:03 oh, we really really like that idea. 11:05 like the very basic game mode is mammoth 11:08 oneshot and we're like oh yeah that 11:09 sounds really fun we just add it and the 11:11 way the game's made that's perfect for 11:13 us because that truly takes me with if 11:15 you don't count like UF load times it 11:17 truly t would take me 3 minutes to make 11:19 yeah that's ins like it's t it makes it 11:22 takes dagger to make the logo that it 11:24 would take me to make that game and 11:25 sometimes those are the ideas that are 11:27 that that are most fun it's very simple 11:28 and that's like you're saying some of 11:30 the challenges though as players so at 11:32 the beginning it was a lot of combat and 11:33 we introduced like some modes like 11:35 knockback and color switch that players 11:37 love and stuff, but some players also 11:40 just love the combat aspect. So, it's 11:41 balancing of like not getting too 11:43 focused on or making sure it's so fun 11:46 that even like the combat focused 11:48 players are happy, etc. It's like vice 11:49 versa. It's like the balance of like 11:51 still having all these guns that are 11:52 fun, making it like feel like a little 11:54 practicey at the same time while also 11:56 having games like dodge wall, color 11:58 switch, knockback that aren't as 12:00 combaty. episodes. That's the hardest 12:02 balance I think we're trying to make is 12:04 like still making it fun for players 12:05 that like both cuz some players just 12:07 love the ones that like you're running 12:09 and dodging and throwing stuff at 12:11 people. Like we just made Bladeball and 12:13 there's there's a section of people that 12:15 like prefer like the ones where you're 12:17 just shooting at people constantly. 12:19 Yeah. Yeah. But there's going to be a 12:20 section that loves blade ball. So we're 12:22 trying to like balance and we also 12:23 weight it differently so make sure it 12:25 doesn't show up as much. Make sure the 12:26 popular ones are shown. So, I think 12:28 that's like where the toughest challenge 12:30 is like trying to find a medium cuz 12:32 you're not going to make everyone happy, 12:33 but like the majority player base that 12:36 all have different aspects that they 12:37 like about our game. That is I think 12:39 like if you can encapsulate like the 12:41 success or or any map with success 12:43 that's huge cuz generally we it's it's 12:45 either like a straight kind of fun game 12:48 like a like parkour game or it's a 12:50 hardcore PvP practice map, right, that 12:53 we see that that sticks around. So if 12:56 you can bring both of those, it can make 12:58 a successful game. But then it's also 13:00 how do you keep both of those that 13:02 audience, you know, happy. That that's a 13:03 definitely I can understand how that 13:05 that could be a challenge. Yeah. Like 13:07 some of the practice maps today like 13:08 they just focus on the competitive 13:10 audience while we have like a little 13:12 mini competitive but also like a very 13:14 casual. They're trying to like a 13:16 balance. So it's a little tough in our 13:18 map specifically. 13:19 No. Very very cool. I I want to a 13:22 follow-up question on this topic and I 13:25 think like we can all relate to this is 13:27 like do you ever have like a creative 13:29 block and I if you do is there anything 13:32 how how do you get out of that or or get 13:34 back on track? Uh 100%. Luckily I have a 13:37 partner so we kind of can think of this 13:39 and I also have a team that helps me 13:42 where we kind of think of ideas and jump 13:43 on it and it's always not the first 13:45 idea. It's kind of just like throw 13:47 something at the wall. it's like, "Oh, 13:48 let's build on that." Like, "How can we 13:49 make this fun?" And I think that's the 13:51 most important part that I would say 13:52 with like other developers is like, I 13:54 know there's a lot of solo people in the 13:56 space, but like even just talking to 13:57 someone, talking it out, having them 13:59 play test and see what they like and 14:01 having them come up ideas. They It's 14:03 probably not going to be that first idea 14:04 that's like, "Oh, I kind of like part of 14:06 that. I'm going to build off that." So, 14:09 I think that that's how I would get out 14:11 of block. No, that makes sense. Makes 14:13 sense. kind of diving back in, I want to 14:15 I want to really hit home like on the 14:16 personal sacrifices and some of your 14:18 lessons that you've learned along the 14:20 way or like making a big change like 14:22 leaving a secure job that wasn't easy 14:25 for sure. What personal sacrifices did 14:28 you have to make and how do you look 14:30 back on those decisions now? Well, one 14:32 of the main sacrifices I guess is I 14:34 moved to Vegas from California 14:36 immediately and that was uh that was 14:38 interesting. I have no friends or family 14:40 here. So, I guess that's a pretty big 14:41 sacrifice. But people do visit and 14:43 stuff. So, it's not like I'm a so alone. 14:45 I talk to my mom like every week, every 14:47 day almost. So, that's one sacrifice. 14:49 But, I'd say overall the biggest 14:52 sacrifice I made is just like, yeah, 14:53 hanging out with friends and family. Um, 14:55 and this doesn't include just UFN. This 14:57 is just like the content space in 14:58 general. Like, I wake up every day at 15:00 Tuesday on at like 2 a.m. for a Fortnite 15:03 update. And no one really understands 15:04 that. Like I do I did that every day for 15:07 or I still do that every every week or 15:09 since Fortnite since I've been making 15:11 content. So chapter 2 and for me I guess 15:14 it doesn't seem as crazy but like yeah a 15:16 lot of people wouldn't be able to do 15:17 that with kids with that. So I I think 15:19 that's the biggest sacrifice is like I 15:21 have lost a lot of sleep is like waking 15:24 up making sure I'm up for because I I 15:26 like to update the game when it's like 15:28 dead like at 1:00 a.m. sometimes at 3:00 15:31 a.m. So it's like I think that's the 15:32 biggest sacrifice is social aspect. It's 15:34 just like if you really want something 15:35 you just have to like put it number one 15:37 in my life at least. For sure. For sure. 15:40 You have to put it you have to put it 15:41 first. And like like you said, and I 15:42 think you know most like most creators 15:45 probably don't understand, but a lot of 15:46 creators that have had success 15:47 understand like you have to update your 15:49 map and publish the update at a at the 15:52 down time, the lowest time cuz it breaks 15:54 the servers, right? So you're trying to 15:56 minimize that effect really. So like if 15:59 I'm on a date I and then the map goes 16:01 down, date's over. I'll see you pay for 16:04 the check. I'm out of there. You know, 16:05 it's gone. Check please. And I'm like 16:07 dead serious. like I will like hopefully 16:10 they understand but it's like okay my 16:12 job's at risk. Bye. For for sure. I mean 16:14 there there's there's something where 16:15 you've you've put so much time and 16:18 effort for years into this thing and you 16:22 know how fragile this these games can 16:24 be. You know speaking on that I know 16:26 recently we had a big update in in 16:28 Fortnite Creative where it caused like 16:30 lower-end devices to in some maps some 16:33 issues. You couldn't couldn't actually 16:34 play certain maps. I think one of one of 16:36 yours, correct me if I'm wrong, was was 16:38 part of that. Like, can you walk me 16:40 through that? I mean, that I don't know 16:41 if you want to talk about it, you don't 16:42 have to. How much did that affect your 16:44 map and what was the outcome? Yeah. No, 16:46 I think this is super this would be a 16:49 great info for every UFN team that So, 16:53 what happened? And it's very it's a big 16:55 shift. Our map was number one. Like they 16:58 did a promotion. We were like 16:59 highlighted on the home bar that tab on 17:02 the top left. I don't remember what it's 17:04 called. and we were like the number one 17:05 map like five different times like 17:07 during that week it was like biggest 17:08 high biggest high like oh my gosh this 17:11 is crazy and then a week later the new 17:14 season comes out which is usually great 17:16 a lot of players so we push an update 17:18 and then our map we get a message saying 17:21 like you know your map is experiencing 17:23 more crashes than usual we're going to 17:25 we're going to literally hide your map 17:27 from every old console so no players 17:29 could play on Switch PS4 and the old 17:32 Xbox and yeah usually like from the 17:34 players were like a top 20 UFN map. We b 17:38 became like number 100 and it was the 17:41 worst day. It was more we were 17:43 panicking. It cuz they gave us an 17:45 estimate like it'll be fixed next week. 17:46 Like next week like that's on the brand 17:49 new season. The brand new se like next 17:51 week. And then we're looking at all the 17:52 other maps saying like I don't even see 17:54 one that's like doing as bad as ours. 17:56 And then I'm getting DMs from like kids 17:58 saying like in our Discord say like we 18:00 literally can't find the map and it's 18:01 just like oh my god. And then like you 18:03 see competitor miniame maps that just 18:06 like go up to 500 and that are we got 18:09 thieves that are like thieves but like 18:11 you know using our exact thumbnail cuz 18:12 kids will think oh that's oh there's the 18:14 map it's just has zero players let's 18:15 just go in it and so it's like those 18:17 were going up too like the complete I 18:19 wouldn't say copy is just using our 18:20 thumbnail. Yeah. So that was mentally 18:23 that was the worst possible week worst 18:26 night like the most nightmare scenario 18:27 because it wasn't happening on every 18:28 map. It was happening to a handful. I 18:30 only know I personally know only two 18:32 other of the top 50 maps and I I'd say 18:34 that is probably the ratio. Three of the 18:36 top 50 were like affected. We got word 18:38 from Epic they're working on it. You 18:39 know, I don't think they don't want this 18:40 to happen, but like it's a little out of 18:42 our control. Like no, that was literally 18:44 their words. It's out of our control. 18:45 So, I'm like sitting there. I'm like, 18:46 uh, I have no idea what to do. So, I'm 18:48 just like walking around my house. I 18:50 don't want to play Fortnite because like 18:51 I'm already really sad. I'm just like 18:53 pacing back. I'm like, should I go on a 18:55 run? And I hate running. like I hear 19:00 right there you go that we gota relieve 19:03 some stress there. Yeah. Oh my god. I 19:04 can't I can't imagine how you feel and I 19:06 think you know what something this this 19:09 just shines a light on how important it 19:10 would and I I think this is kind of in 19:12 the road map or it's been talked about 19:13 it but adding a way on platform to talk 19:17 about your updates or talk about 19:18 anything to your community that they 19:20 subscribe to whatever on platform so you 19:22 can let them know you know what I mean 19:24 like like and I'm sure you have a great 19:26 Discord I definitely want to get into 19:28 social media and talk about that but 19:30 like you know that's a a small 19:31 percentage of your audience right It's 19:34 probably 100%. Most most people don't 19:36 even have Discord or Twitter or most 19:38 kids don't. So, it's just like it's it 19:40 was very brutal like going from like 19:42 number one to like the most nightmare 19:44 scenario cuz like if it was happening to 19:45 every map, they're going to work on a 19:47 fix immediately. But just a handful is 19:49 like that's why it took a week. And 19:51 yeah, I don't know the details, but it's 19:53 just like it got fixed. And then the 19:56 lasting effects have definitely hurt us 19:58 too, which is like I'd say like now 19:59 we're at 40% of our player base. But 20:02 like I guess there's there are positives 20:04 to say like okay like we're still doing 20:06 pretty well even if like the worst of 20:07 the worst happened for a week. Like our 20:09 map is still like doing very solid. So 20:11 it's like trying to take the positives 20:13 but like I guess that's a very sharp 20:16 reality of just like how volatile this 20:19 ecosystem can be for somebody especially 20:22 you know like let's say I was a solo 20:24 person and this was just my only source 20:25 of income. Like it's just like I what if 20:28 they they didn't get that update in time 20:30 like in that week? What if it was 20:32 longer? What if it was like a month? 20:34 That was a possibility. So, 20:39 and that's why you'll leave a date 20:40 immediately. The M the M goes down. 20:44 Well, thank you for sharing that story 20:45 and I think I think it's great. I think 20:47 it's great that sometimes you can do 20:49 everything right and yeah, it's still 20:52 there it's still things out of your 20:54 control happen. So, I love how po like 20:57 positive you've been as much as you can 20:59 be in this situation and you know I'm 21:02 glad your map is back and and I you know 21:04 I I'm seeing it back back up climbing up 21:06 the ranks again and I'm I bet it will 21:08 get back up there. So, uh I just I can't 21:11 number one to worst case scenario 21:13 possible. like it's and for a week cuz 21:16 we we've had our map down and it was my 21:18 fault. But it it like we were able to 21:20 make a revert or like we're able like it 21:22 would only last like max a day or if 21:24 there was a glitch. It's affecting 21:26 everybody. But this was like a very 21:28 specific problem to like me and two 21:30 other maps which I still don't know why 21:31 it happened but it's just like yeah 21:33 worst worst possible case scenario. Well 21:35 well let's let's move on from that 21:38 before we have to go take another run 21:39 before I start crying. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 21:42 Well, we've talked about social media a 21:44 little bit and and you're a large you're 21:45 a large influencer like you mentioned 21:47 before um getting into this space. So, I 21:50 definitely want to pick your brain and 21:51 and form people listening on on how 21:53 important this is. Your Tik Tok and 21:56 YouTube strategies have driven millions 21:57 to your map. What's your secret for 21:59 creating content that really resonates 22:01 with both hardcore gamers and casual 22:03 gamers? Yeah, it's it's a necessity. 22:06 Everyone everyone would agree. to some 22:08 people they wouldn't want that but it's 22:10 100% like when you're making a map you 22:12 also need to think about the marketing 22:13 side. So you also need to think about 22:14 like how is it going to be promoted like 22:16 where are they gonna show in their 22:17 videos. So 100% like it's a super 22:20 powerful like necessity at the moment 22:22 that you cannot just rely on Fortnite's 22:24 discover just making a map and I don't 22:26 think I've seen anything like that done 22:28 that well yeah in months I don't know 22:30 maybe you like just pure discover. Yeah. 22:34 Yeah. It's very it's very hard and we we 22:37 probably do see it a lot of it's 22:38 overtaken by I think some not so uh best 22:42 practices being used to to promote the 22:45 the mask. We don't need to bring light 22:46 to any of that right now, but yeah, it's 22:49 definitely very important and I just I 22:50 just know you and Dag have just done it 22:53 to such a degree, like some of the best 22:55 I've ever seen to promote your game and 22:57 keep it popular and um and continue to 23:00 promote and keep updates. Like 23:02 piggybacking on to that, like you're 23:04 brand new, you're a brand new creator 23:06 and you're very talented. You can make 23:08 any game you want. Okay, let's just 23:10 let's just say that. But, you know, 23:12 maybe you're new to social media. What 23:14 do you have any tips or any like um 23:17 suggestions for someone trying to, you 23:19 know, get their map seen? Yeah, I think 23:22 some advice I was saying a little 23:23 earlier is just focus on your map to 23:25 like like what would you watch in a 23:27 video? Like people aren't aren't very 23:29 critical when they're watching their own 23:30 videos. Like the sound's bad, the video 23:33 doesn't look good. Like you have to 23:34 picture yourself as a viewer and it's 23:36 very hard for a lot of people to do 23:37 that. It's just like would you watch 23:38 this first two seconds? And most of them 23:40 just like get it out. They're like, 23:41 "Yeah, I've posted like 10 videos." But 23:43 it's like, just focus on this one video 23:45 and focus on those first 5 seconds. Like 23:48 it's like a thumbnail. Like you have 23:49 like those first 2 to 5 seconds to get 23:51 their attention. Like would this attract 23:54 you or not? If it doesn't and you have 23:56 to like the best advice I can give is 23:57 just be brutally honest with yourself. 23:59 If it's not interesting, it's not 24:00 interesting. That means like you have to 24:01 do something in the map to like make it 24:03 pop out more. You have to make your 24:05 video look better video quality-wise, 24:07 hook, like whatever it takes. And I 24:09 would say another big piece of advice is 24:10 like you don't have to reinvent the 24:12 wheel. There's a lot of map promotions, 24:13 like what are the number one? Like you 24:15 can look at some of my number my top 24:17 promotions. Like why is it interesting? 24:18 Like you go like my most viewed miniame 24:20 promo. It's a shot of like it's like 24:23 this mini game isn't even popular, but 24:24 this video has like 5 million views. 24:26 It's like a ton of Junk Rift uh items 24:28 falling down in the sky in like HD. Like 24:30 I made it look like super high quality 24:33 and it's just like boom boom boom boom 24:34 boom. And it's just like and it looks 24:36 crazy cuz it is. And that's like that 24:38 was the shot shot. It didn't even matter 24:40 what I said because like I just made 24:41 that shot interesting. No, that that is 24:44 great advice. And yeah, I think you know 24:47 I haven't had the level of success that 24:48 you have had in in the social media 24:50 space, but I've had some and and I just 24:52 think you know it's important to not be 24:54 so hard on yourself. So like you're 24:56 going to you're going to suck at 24:58 starting off, right? So like how how 25:00 long did it take you from like kind of 25:02 starting off your social media before 25:04 you kind of like saw some success? Yeah. 25:06 No, it took me I mean that's another 25:08 thing. It just it took me a month of 25:10 like experimenting. I think I tried like 25:12 15 different video styles. Some of them 25:14 weren't even Fortnite. Some of them I 25:15 was just like trolling. Some of them I 25:16 was trying to be funny which I'm not a 25:18 very funny person. And then I tried some 25:20 mythbusters and then that did well. And 25:23 then I started doing update videos that 25:25 did well. So it took me a while to 25:26 figure out what videos I like posting. 25:28 Like you don't want to burn out because 25:30 like you don't like posting them. what 25:31 videos I could regularly do and what 25:34 videos that like had good views. And it 25:37 took and then and then you get into the 25:38 small T like what time what were the 25:41 best times to post? What are the 25:42 hashtags that you think work? Like it 25:44 does take experimenting to find your 25:46 rhythm. Now I now I know exactly what 25:47 hashtags I'm going to do every time. 25:48 Like what time am I going to post? I 25:50 post 6 a.m. PST every single time I post 25:52 a video. Like that's my best time. I've 25:54 tried every other time and that one is 25:56 significantly better. It's like you have 25:58 to like give it a good like you have to 26:00 fail. Like uh I've given this advice a 26:02 lot is just like fail extremely early 26:05 and just keep learning from that. Like 26:06 don't give up. Like everyone starts from 26:08 zero. Yeah. No, for sure. And something 26:10 else like you mentioned is like you're 26:12 not just posting miniame clips. You're 26:15 also doing Fortnite as well. Other other 26:18 other things to generate interest as 26:20 well. Like I'm like it's just I don't I 26:22 I don't know of one like successful game 26:25 or chess game. I don't know one 26:27 successful like creative map that's just 26:30 their content of the map, right? That's 26:32 like sure they'll get a few hits here 26:34 here or there, but like it's I think 26:36 what I've seen people that do really 26:38 well is they kind of sprinkle in both. 26:40 So they kind of build that Fortnite 26:41 audience as well with Fortnite, but then 26:43 also kind of hit them with, you know, 26:44 hey, this map's updated. 100%. Yeah. No, 26:47 that's nail on the head. Yeah. So last 26:50 last question in in this topic and I'm 26:52 actually want to know this is could you 26:54 share a behind thescenes look at how you 26:57 plan and create a clip that goes viral 26:59 like this could be anything like any 27:02 video. Yeah in any video don't worry it 27:04 doesn't have to be map specific. Yeah 27:05 specifically my like update videos. Well 27:07 first I try to post that like ASAP cuz 27:10 like yeah I want to try to get that 27:11 information as video. So when I'm when 27:13 I'm like going through all my footage 27:14 I'm like what is the most interesting 27:16 thing out of this whole video? And I 27:18 usually like either put a short snippet 27:20 or fast version at the beginning and 27:22 then I go through the video. So like 27:23 usually the viral like I'm really and I 27:26 try to like trim down the milliseconds. 27:28 That's something that's like a little 27:29 bit more advanced. But like I will 27:30 literally trim down like 1/10enth of a 27:32 second to make sure it's like the pace 27:34 that I would watch it at. Like if at any 27:36 point you watch your video it's like 27:38 this is where I'll leave. That's when 27:39 you like okay I got to trim it just a 27:40 little bit more to change to the next 27:42 scene or like you don't want you don't 27:43 need to always make it like Mr. Beast 27:45 fast but like you just be honest with 27:46 yourself. If I were to watch this video, 27:48 like when is the point I would leave? 27:50 And that's like where you adjust like, 27:52 okay, it's this is probably not as 27:53 interesting. This is dragging out too 27:54 long. I need to edit it or like do like 27:56 a pan zoom in shot to like make this 27:59 more interesting for a little bit. Like 28:00 I'll do that. Like I'll literally like 28:02 you'll see in my videos like if it's 28:04 like a little boring, if I'm just 28:05 staring at something, but it's important 28:06 information, I'll do like a slow pan out 28:09 which just as a it just draws your eye. 28:11 Maybe that's like bad to like say the 28:13 attention span of kids these days, but 28:15 like yeah, as long as something's 28:17 happening, you know, it's tr it's it's 28:18 just true. It's not we we didn't we 28:21 didn't make this up. It's just how it 28:23 evolved. And if to stay relevant, you 28:25 have to kind of adapt to those. It's not 28:27 tricks. It's just those editing styles. 28:29 So yeah, no, we talked a little bit 28:31 earlier kind of about like your Discord 28:33 community and things like that. I really 28:34 want to touch touch on that and 28:36 basically on building and engaging a 28:38 community. So, community feedback seems 28:40 to play a huge role in your work. Can 28:43 you tell us how your Discord and social 28:45 channels influence the ongoing evolution 28:47 of mini games box PvP? 100%. We look at 28:50 comments. Well, there's also just 28:52 passionate comments that'll be like, I 28:54 hate this mini game. I did this. But 28:56 then there's the literally reverse. I 28:57 love this one. No, don't take it out. 28:59 So, it's just like we use that feedback 29:01 to like really like balance our game to 29:03 like what is played the most, what 29:05 isn't. And we like to also like give 29:08 them a little feel like they're part of 29:10 the community by like giving them 29:11 options like do you guys want to see a 29:13 new arena this month? Do you want to see 29:15 this game or this? They'll always pick 29:16 the mini game. But like sometimes we'll 29:17 give like three mini games. Sometimes 29:18 we'll like all right of all the unvolted 29:20 games. Which one do you guys want to see 29:22 the most? And then we'll bring it back 29:23 for a little bit. So we try to like make 29:25 them a part of it all the people in our 29:27 discord. And then we also have like play 29:29 test roll if they want to like test out 29:30 the new ones that are coming out. And 29:32 that's how we try to engage our discord. 29:34 That's awesome. That's a great idea. 29:36 Thank you for sharing that, Alberto, 29:37 because yeah, I I really believe and I 29:39 think a lot of creators don't use some 29:41 of the tools that we we like Discord to 29:44 really like engage their audience and 29:46 potentially even use them to play test 29:48 or even generate ideas. So, you know, I 29:51 it's definitely like when when do you 29:53 think someone should start a Discord? 29:55 Like right away when you make their 29:56 game, maybe wait till they see some some 29:59 plays. I I don't think it hurts to like 30:01 making a general discord. Maybe not 30:02 specifically for the game, but just like 30:04 somewhere where they can like interact 30:05 and give you feedback. You know, those 30:07 are your core players that care about 30:08 the most and I'll just keep coming back. 30:10 So, I don't think you need it 30:11 necessarily for the game. Maybe for like 30:13 you as a you know, come to my Discord 30:15 and probably want to give them a good 30:17 link so it's like easy to go. Like we 30:18 have 30:19 discord.gg/miname. So, it's like pretty 30:20 easy. I think that would be the best way 30:22 so they can at least give you glitches. 30:23 So, you know, it's like I love your map 30:25 but there's like this glitch like I 30:26 would say pretty immediate but it's not 30:28 like you have to like make a whole crazy 30:30 server. It's just like glitches, 30:32 feedback, general. That's it. Yeah. 30:35 Yeah, that's good advice. You don't need 30:36 to go crazy in a full nuts. Don't spend 30:38 a lot of time. Just make it easy for 30:40 them to like a good way for them to give 30:41 you feedback, you know, or a Twitter or 30:43 something something where they could 30:45 like easily message you like as a 30:46 creator. Like a lot of these creators 30:48 don't put them I don't know why they're 30:49 trying to hide, but like like even your 30:51 Twitter handle so they can put your 30:53 messages on, you know? So at least like 30:55 you're getting a little bit of feedback 30:57 from even just the smallest amount of 30:59 players. Yeah, they're free free play 31:01 testers really, right? And and after 31:03 these big updates like you found right 31:05 on those last update, like it's nice 31:07 when you can get that feedback 31:08 instantly. So, okay, thanks for sharing 31:10 that. I want to kind of shift gears and 31:12 and something that also you guys have 31:14 done extremely well, probably better 31:16 than anyone in this space is brand 31:19 integrations. you've created a game 31:21 where you not only can integrate like 31:23 any brand but also integrate, you know, 31:25 with brands that don't want necessarily 31:27 sometimes PVP inside of them or any any, 31:30 you know, you know, gun guns or anything 31:32 like that inside of it. So, you know, 31:35 you've worked with major brands and 31:36 other creators like the US Open, 31:38 Off-White, Epic Games. Is there any 31:41 upcoming collaborations that you are 31:43 excited for? Yeah. Yeah, we just 31:44 released one super cool with Warner 31:46 Brothers for their new movie 17. So, we 31:49 literally have like a metahuman NPC of 31:52 Robert Patter Patterson in our game just 31:54 walking around and you can eliminate him 31:56 and he gets to drop items. And if you 31:58 don't know the premise of the movie, 31:59 it's like a clone that just keeps dying 32:01 and does like experimental. So, like in 32:03 our game, he just keeps dying and keeps 32:05 dropping items. So, it's like everyone's 32:07 like trying to just eliminate their 32:08 Mickey. That's what he's called. Yeah, I 32:10 think that's the current one. We have 32:12 some other ones I don't think I can 32:13 announce though. But yeah, don't break 32:15 any NDAs. But yeah, no, it's been a 32:18 pretty awesome experience working with 32:19 these brands. And it's funny, like I had 32:22 this vision after the first month this 32:23 game that came out. Like I was like, I 32:25 guess I won't name names, but like 32:27 there's all these brand maps you'll see 32:28 that like put so much money into 32:30 marketing, how well it do, and then it 32:32 peaks at like 40 players, you know, and 32:34 they have like the biggest streamers 32:36 stream it, too. It's like 40 like and 32:38 it's just cuz like they weren't fun, but 32:39 it's like I think this is the evolution 32:41 of just like integrating to popular 32:43 maps. I know ours is special. like it's 32:45 very easy to integrate cuz it'd be hard 32:46 to like integrate into those practice 32:48 maps but there are ways and I think that 32:51 is where the space is headed and just 32:53 hopefully our map could be a pioneer 32:54 there. Yeah. No, it looks like it 32:57 seriously like what if if maybe brands 32:59 are listening or not. What is your 33:00 process for working with large brands 33:02 and how do you work with them to ensure 33:04 a successful integration? Yeah. So large 33:07 brands, we have a couple agencies that 33:09 know us that know these brands and then 33:11 then before we even talk budget, we 33:12 usually give them like a sheet of just 33:14 like this is what we're able to do. 33:15 These are generally the budgets and then 33:16 depending on the brand, we're very 33:18 flexible or you know dur how much how 33:20 many days they want it. We're very 33:21 flexible. It's like, "Okay, we can do 33:22 this." And if they're happy, like they 33:24 usually go with like the custom mini 33:26 game idea or take over a mini game, 33:28 which is like rebranding, like color 33:29 switch into what they want. And we talk 33:31 about So after all that price is done, 33:33 which is usually actually the easy part 33:34 is just like what games work for them 33:36 first. Number one, like you said, are 33:38 they okay with combat? And we would push 33:40 for that 100%. Those are the most 33:42 popular games. Those are like what 33:44 players want to we'll keep playing over 33:46 and over and over again because if you 33:47 have like a fall guys like which we had 33:49 for Hi-Cheu it's just like it's really 33:51 fun the first like four times after four 33:53 it becomes like okay I know this like 33:55 I've done this path and if I can't fight 33:57 this guy it's like I'm just like kind of 33:59 just doing the same route every time. 34:01 Yeah. But yeah but generally it's okay 34:04 because our integrations are only like 34:05 one to two weeks. So it's okay. They'll 34:08 they'll play it like maybe 10 times, 34:10 maybe more than that, but like a single 34:12 player. But yeah, that's how we go 34:14 through it. And then in our contracts, 34:16 we go like what would make you happy? 34:17 Like we want we want to make brands 34:19 happy so that like they keep coming back 34:21 to us like like I think that they were 34:23 very I don't know if I'm allowed to say 34:25 that. They were extremely happy and they 34:26 want to do it again next year. I don't 34:27 know if I'm allowed to say that. Okay. 34:29 Well, we should know. Maybe I'll I'll 34:32 bleep it out. Just to be safe. and that 34:35 um yeah, we we promised them a certain 34:37 amount of impressions on their game that 34:40 we know we're going to hit and then 34:41 shatter. Um so it's just like I know for 34:44 one of our one of our integrations, we 34:46 promised over two weeks that we'd hit 8 34:49 million imp or 8 million plays on their 34:51 game. If we didn't, we would just keep 34:53 keep that mini game until we hit it. And 34:54 we like we shattered that like in the 34:56 first week. So it's like they're happy, 34:58 we're happy. That's that's how our 35:00 approach has been. It's the money is not 35:02 important yet. We want to revolutionize 35:04 space with big brands and have them see 35:05 like this is this is the future like 35:08 Yeah. 8 million impressions. That's 35:10 crazy. Or more. More. You said that's 35:12 insane. So, wow. I mean, and that's in a 35:15 and how long? And that was in like a 35:17 week. Less than a week. That was a week. 35:18 Yeah. Wow. Wow. That that's amazing. 35:21 Yeah. I mean, what what better way to, 35:23 you know, basically almost, you know, 35:25 guarantee you get this amount of 35:27 impressions for for your brand and can 35:29 be kid-friendly at that. So, that that's 35:31 amazing. Congrats on all of that. Yeah. 35:33 And it's fun and it's like fun like see 35:35 a new mini game. Like it's it's good for 35:37 the players too. Like for our game. I 35:39 don't know about any other games if they 35:40 like were to add something like that if 35:41 it felt like it feels very natural for 35:43 us. I I think it's cool how you're doing 35:45 cuz it's not you know it's not 35:46 necessarily in your face the whole time 35:48 either which is kind of the the best way 35:50 to do it. I mean you can have logos or 35:51 whatever in in certain areas right and 35:53 things. So I'm sure everything's 35:55 negotiable, right? But like it's it's 35:57 not too much, right? And it's also kind 35:59 of brings some cred to to your game 36:02 sometimes, you know, seeing Off-White in 36:04 your game. Exactly. That's insane. Yeah. 36:07 No, 100%. Like US Open, Hi Shu, Michael 36:11 Boué. That was awesome. Oh my god. How 36:14 was it working with that experience? 36:16 Like first off, tell explain what the 36:17 experience was and then Yeah. G give me 36:19 some insight on that. Well, we've had a 36:21 lot of uh music uh groups that have hit 36:24 us up and we're like it was very I guess 36:27 music is a very uh interesting industry 36:29 where it's very tight and it's just like 36:31 want to see the space. That one we 36:33 actually did uh for Warner Brothers 36:35 music is just like choose your artist 36:38 like what works and we're like Michael 36:39 Bubé for a Christmas game would be 36:41 really cool and they're like oh yeah we 36:42 can make that happen. We can license and 36:44 we figured it out. We got some marketing 36:46 budget and then we're like, how can we 36:48 make this music like part of the game? 36:50 So, we made like these evil snowmen that 36:53 have Michael Boué like playing in like 36:55 where they're at, I guess. And then the 36:57 closer these snowmen are coming to you, 37:00 like the louder Michael Bubé is and then 37:02 they like can like infect you. So, it's 37:04 like the music is part of the game. So 37:06 that's that's kind of how that came 37:08 alive is just like how can we integrate 37:09 music and then we're like showed them 37:10 and then we gave them impressions and 37:12 then now now we have this uh case study 37:15 for any other music group that wants to 37:18 like work with us. Yeah. And look music 37:20 is is very hard at this moment in in in 37:23 Fortnite to to integrate and and make 37:26 popular. Yeah. So that's insane, Gary. I 37:29 I would almost bet like if any music 37:32 integration that we have seen, you 37:33 definitely that however long that was 37:35 was probably the highest most 37:37 impressions 37:39 seen on a a game. So that that's 37:41 amazing. All right, so let's let's kind 37:43 of we're going to still stay on topic 37:44 here, but you know, I want I want to 37:46 know about kind of some future trends 37:47 and aspirations. So looking forward, 37:49 what trends do you see shaping the 37:51 future of Fortnite Creative in UEFN? 37:54 This is I'm putting you on the hot seat 37:56 here. So yeah, this is a tough question. 37:58 This is where it gets uh this is like 38:00 debatable like throughout the whole 38:02 space. This is just uh right now it's 38:04 like it's hard to like view that because 38:07 you don't see many too many new maps 38:09 like breaking out. But I think where I 38:12 see UFN is with scene graph some like 38:14 very custom custom games that feel like 38:17 very dang I do not know how the word how 38:20 to describe it. But I think the way the 38:23 direction of UEFN is going if once Ste 38:25 graph is out is like there's going to be 38:26 another skill gap that's going to just 38:28 like make some developers just on a 38:30 whole another level of just what 38:32 Fortnite can be. So I think that's where 38:34 it's headed just like a true more more 38:36 games that don't feel like Fortnite like 38:37 and I think that's going to be cool but 38:39 I think that's where it's headed once 38:40 graph is out. No to totally I'm scene 38:43 graph I'm I'm very excited about. We've 38:45 seen a lots of lots of clips kind of 38:47 it's in it's in it's not beta yet but 38:49 it's like it's in test we could test it 38:51 out right now and play with it but um 38:53 it's supposed to be able to release by 38:55 what it's Q1 right? Yeah. So that's we 38:58 only got a few more weeks till that. So 39:00 it's going to be huge. I'm I I'm holding 39:02 reservations cuz I agree but like we all 39:05 kind of thought that about UFN too. Like 39:07 at the end of the day it's like 39:08 everyone's still just playing the same 39:10 Fortnite maps. Yeah. Like I said this is 39:13 a tough question. I don't even think I 39:15 could answer this. So, like I I put you 39:17 in the in the hot seat. Yeah. I don't 39:19 know if it's going to be popular, but 39:20 like I think like those games there's 39:22 going to be a couple that are just like 39:24 really like shape the future. I think 39:26 there will be some that like really use 39:27 scene graph that that won't feel like 39:29 Fortnite that will be so popular and 39:31 that'll like I don't know if it's going 39:32 to be the trend, but like there's going 39:34 to be another skill gap that 39:36 like maybe some people will incorporate 39:38 with Fortnite, but I don't even I'm not 39:40 sure. Yeah, it's a tough No, I'm here 39:42 for it. I can't wait to see it. And 39:43 yeah, I know a lot of lot I could be 39:45 totally wrong and like kids just want to 39:47 still play like the same Fortnite maps 39:50 that that could totally happen. For 39:51 sure. That's an ecosystem for 39:53 discussion. But yeah. Yeah, for for 39:55 sure. You're right. I mean, no one 39:57 really knows, you know what I mean? Like 39:58 like pillars like who saw that come in, 40:01 you know? Yeah. And and now that's 40:02 everywhere. It's like the new new thing. 40:04 So yeah, who who knows? Are there like 40:07 any particular upcoming projects or 40:09 features you're particularly excited 40:10 about? That's definitely the number one 40:13 that because I think like customizing 40:16 collision we can save a ton of memory 40:18 make the game more optimized talked 40:20 about that with how scene graph could be 40:22 used with another dev team and it's just 40:24 like we could just really I think it 40:27 really helps our game because we can 40:28 really like push a lot of things with 40:30 synaps I think graphs is the number one 40:32 thing for us. Yeah I think I think a lot 40:34 a lot of people. So no very very cool to 40:36 see what you guys do with it for sure. 40:37 So I got a few more questions here 40:38 before we get out of here man. This has 40:40 been very informative. Thank you so 40:42 much. And like I I kind of want to get 40:43 back on like you personally and you know 40:45 your daily routine. I I kind of I'm I'm 40:47 kind of interested. I'm sure other 40:48 people are as well and kind of your 40:50 productivity and daily routine. So like 40:52 every creator has their own way to stay 40:54 productive. Can you share like some of 40:56 your daily routines or productivity 40:58 hacks that keep your creativity and 41:00 energy levels, you know, as high as they 41:02 they are? Man, you were sick yesterday. 41:04 Look at you today, man. Yeah. I mean I I 41:07 mean I do get my like full sleep like 41:10 sometimes I'll like sleep over but I'll 41:13 just like get a full like 9 hours of 41:15 sleep. I'll wake up take my I I never 41:18 take any meetings like before 10:00. 41:20 That gives me enough like a 30-minute 41:22 buffer. I usually wake up at 9:30. Gives 41:23 me like a 30-minute buffer to like get 41:25 up get get a little breakfast. So I try 41:28 to get my full sleep and then I wake up. 41:31 I take all my meetings and then I kind 41:33 of like schedule out my day like what 41:35 are the things I need to do for mini 41:36 games specifically and then what else do 41:39 I need to do like video-wise on my 41:40 channel etc. And then just plan it out 41:43 and just go through that. But I mean 41:44 it's really not a set schedule honestly. 41:46 It's pretty chill for me. That's pretty 41:48 cool. That's pretty cool. Do So do you 41:50 do you work out or anything like that? 41:52 Oh yeah. Yeah. No, like working out's 41:53 super important. I I totally forgot 41:55 that. I work out. Um I eat a good lunch. 41:58 But yeah, I built my home gym in my 41:59 garage. Like it's pretty crazy. So that 42:02 was my first investment with my money is 42:03 just like get a house and like get build 42:05 an insane gym. So I I do get my workout 42:08 in my garage and it's like uh it 42:10 definitely helps me go throughout the 42:12 day. So that that's definitely key. No, 42:13 look, we all have these long gamer hours 42:15 and we're all sitting all the time and 42:17 you know there's a reason a lot of these 42:18 professional gamers I feel are in really 42:20 good shape and and I know we're not 42:22 professional gamers but you know a lot 42:24 of us are professional creator map 42:26 creators and it's the same thing. Um I 42:28 think it it's very important. So, I'm 42:29 going to thank you for bringing that up. 42:31 So, I I want to ask this question and 42:33 and it's really just advice. So, for 42:35 anyone dreaming of turning their passion 42:37 for game development into a career, 42:39 what's the one piece of advice you wish 42:41 you'd known before making the big leap? 42:44 So, I've said this a lot, but failing 42:45 early, that includes content, 42:47 everything. And I've given this advice 42:49 to everyone that asked me, is just like, 42:51 you know, you got to keep experimenting. 42:53 So, I want to change it up. But failing 42:55 early is my number one advice for 42:56 everyone. Got to try different things. 42:58 see what maps you like to make. Get 43:00 better. Your skills will get better. 43:02 You'll learn more. So, it's just 43:03 growing. But I do give that advice a 43:05 lot. So, the second thing that is super 43:07 important is have fun. Like that sounds 43:09 so like cliche, but like I see so many, 43:13 this is specific to content creation. 43:14 It's probably it applies to UEFs. Like 43:16 they get burnt out. They get like very 43:18 negative. Like they're doing it for 43:20 money. And there is a lot of money in 43:22 the space, but it's like if you're doing 43:23 it for money like and you're not getting 43:25 the players, it's just going to put so 43:26 much stress on you and you're not going 43:28 to enjoy it. Like the best things that 43:30 you're going to make are the things that 43:32 you enjoy that you that like for miniame 43:34 I pulled two allnighters not cuz I had 43:37 to cuz I wanted to like I wanted to like 43:40 oh this is going to be so fund like this 43:42 is going to be great. So, it's like same 43:44 thing with do something that like won't 43:45 burn you out like you would truly enjoy 43:47 if you like this is this is bad to this 43:49 might be bad to say if you don't like 43:50 making UFM maps you shouldn't be doing 43:52 it just don't do it like go do something 43:54 you enjoy but yeah have fun with it like 43:57 it's before it becomes a job have fun 43:59 with it now it's like now when it 44:01 becomes your job it's like a little 44:02 different like it's your income blah 44:03 blah blah but like you know if you're at 44:05 the beginning stage you're early like it 44:07 shouldn't feel like a job feel like I 44:09 want to like make this cool game I want 44:11 to do this I want to make these 44:12 mechanics Oh, that's what I would say. 44:14 No, like it does sound a little cliche, 44:16 but it it is so true. It is so true. 44:18 Like I started this when you couldn't 44:20 make money. You were doing all of this 44:22 when you started. And sure, you may have 44:24 knew that there was possible money, but 44:25 not even in content. You were just doing 44:27 it for fun or like doing it. Um, and you 44:30 enjoyed the content you're making. You 44:31 enjoyed the game. You enjoyed the 44:33 process of learning and creating. And it 44:35 was just like I had that same my start 44:38 as well that same feeling where I just 44:40 constant I was just like wanted to 44:41 tinker like nothing else was fun to me 44:43 like I I my fun was getting an engine 44:46 and and learning everything and making 44:47 things and it definitely was coming like 44:49 becoming you know that was my passion 44:52 you know what I mean that and and so 44:54 when you're as a new creator when you're 44:56 coming in here and you're trying to 44:58 compete with people who've already been 44:59 here five six years that have that p you 45:02 know how they wake up every day excited 45:04 to build a new things and try new 45:06 things. You know that that mindset's 45:08 really strong and it's going to keep you 45:10 going because I'm sure you've burned out 45:12 still. I've burned out still. It 45:14 happens, but it's a lot less and I can 45:16 get over it faster, you know, because I 45:18 love it and I enjoy it and I'm I'm 45:20 excited about it. So, yeah, I think 45:21 that's like really important advice and 45:24 and to take in. Yeah. I mean, I I know I 45:26 definitely like see on Twitter like a 45:28 lot of people get like dishar because 45:31 they went like all in full-time. I guess 45:33 it's different if if it's like your 45:35 whole source of income, but like if 45:37 you're just starting out, I would not 45:38 make that the goal. I would make your 45:40 goal to make fun maps that you enjoy. 45:43 Yeah, it does change though if it's your 45:45 like I I don't know if I could say the 45:47 same thing. Yeah, any hobby, you know, 45:49 and that that's exactly what I mean. I 45:50 had I had a very cush job as well. I was 45:53 never leaving that job. Um and I started 45:56 making money and it was just a hobby 45:58 though. It just kind of was like, oh, 45:59 I'm having fun. It was always fun. And 46:00 then it kind of turned into that moment 46:02 where you're like, uh, I something has 46:04 to give. So, and then I took the leap, 46:07 you took the leap, and and you kind of 46:09 like you'll you'll know when the right 46:10 time is. And I think, you know, that's 46:12 probably the better, more safer route. I 46:14 think a lot of people, you should 46:15 definitely um, you know, this should be 46:17 a if you're starting out, you don't know 46:19 a especially if you don't know a lot of 46:20 this space, you should, you know, it 46:22 should be a hobby. Um, and then and then 46:25 see what happens. And if you start 46:26 making money and then you know this 46:27 depends on your risks and what what you 46:29 can take. Exactly. Exactly. That and 46:32 it's goes I guess they're very similar 46:34 content creation and like making maps. 46:36 Content creation is just like make 46:37 videos that have fun like that you have 46:39 fun making that you won't burn out like 46:41 you constantly can make and you enjoy 46:43 making like don't make it a job until 46:45 it's a job. Yes. Yes. cuz yeah there I 46:48 did get to the point in my map creation 46:50 and so when after I you know was took 46:52 the leap I was like oh man I'm I'm don't 46:55 want to do this right now I was like oh 46:57 I haven't had this feeling before you 46:58 know I got to get up at 2 a.m. and add 47:00 these new guns. Yeah. No it can get 47:03 there. But no thank you for sharing 47:04 that. And um you know let's let's wrap 47:06 this up. But I want I have just a few 47:08 more questions. So, what what's one fun 47:10 or unexpected story from your time as a 47:13 creator that really captivates or 47:15 captures the spirit maybe of your 47:17 journey? This is a very weird question. 47:19 Okay. I think the first time was during 47:21 December and we knew our map was fun, 47:24 but it was doing so well and was so high 47:26 on Discover that every creator started 47:28 playing it and not even paying them, 47:29 they just loved it. Like people would 47:31 make long videos, people like big 47:33 creators would make long videos, people 47:34 make tournaments. I was like, "Oh my 47:36 gosh, I made something that like truly 47:37 people love." like and I at that time I 47:39 didn't have like another team. It was 47:41 like me. It was like this is like I made 47:43 like this is this is amazing. Like that 47:44 was like a little reflection. It's just 47:46 like oh my gosh I made like now now I've 47:48 had like other a lot of help from a lot 47:50 of aspects but like at that beginning it 47:51 was just me and it was just like this 47:53 was this is I made something so fun that 47:55 like all these people are enjoying. It's 47:56 like super cool. like top creators every 47:59 every every literally every single top 48:01 creator had a video on it because it was 48:03 like it became a trend you know it's 48:04 like showed it off and it's like 48:06 obviously benefits me but it benefits 48:08 them because like they could make videos 48:09 on it like it was like special so that 48:12 was like the dece so it came out 48:13 November and then this December was like 48:15 when so much extra people were playing 48:18 and making content saying like your game 48:20 is actually so much fun and that was 48:21 like amazing feeling that is huge that 48:24 is huge because if you you know if you 48:26 can get other people to make content for 48:28 you. And this is actually huge on 48:30 Roblox. You actually see this a lot on 48:32 Roblox. A lot of games have a huge 48:34 audience just for that game. They make 48:36 there's content creators just for a 48:38 Roblox games. That's all they do is make 48:40 content on that game. And so how that's 48:42 just driving place to your game. That's 48:44 the dream. So, you know, that had to 48:46 feel amazing. Yeah, it was it was one of 48:48 the most amazing feelings. Just like 48:50 honored like I was I was like definitely 48:53 gleeful inside. I'm not like an 48:55 emotional person. So, no, for sure. All 48:58 right, last question. Uh, so what was 49:00 the most surprising reaction you 49:02 received from a player? Surprising 49:04 reaction? I think our most one of our 49:05 most popular games. I think like Nick 30 49:08 play it and I don't think he liked it. 49:09 They were like, dang, that's like our 49:11 most popular game. We're like, do we 49:13 like adjust it for NK30 or do we adjust 49:16 it for what people are voting for? You 49:18 have the stats. Yeah. Yeah. And he did. 49:21 Yeah, he did like which is fine. Like 49:23 some like you know, you can't abuse 49:24 everyone. It was funny. They were like, 49:25 "What should we do?" We were like in a 49:27 like a little conundrum. That is that is 49:29 actually a great a great story because 49:31 and look, there's been things all 49:33 already about influencers coming out and 49:35 talking about people's games and you you 49:37 handled it beautifully, I think. You 49:38 know what I mean? Thanks for the 49:39 feedback, right? But you looked at your 49:42 actual statistics in game and your 49:44 analytics and said, "Well, you know, one 49:47 of the most popular streamers, but hey, 49:49 they're saying a different story." And 49:50 and that's just it. It's just people's 49:51 opinion. We might like different movies. 49:53 It's just that's just that's art. It's 49:55 art. It's art. We all have different 49:56 perceptions of what we like in art. So, 49:58 no, that's awesome. Look, look, Berto, 50:01 this has been really informative and and 50:02 a great podcast and I couldn't like 50:05 couldn't have had a better guest to 50:06 start this off. So, I just want to thank 50:07 you so much for this and being open and 50:10 and a lot of people keep a lot of this 50:11 information to themselves as well. So, 50:14 thank you so much for being open and 50:15 candid about about your game and um you 50:18 know, where can people find you? Uh they 50:20 could if they were interested in our 50:22 Discord mini game is 50:23 discord. I think hopefully I'll put 50:25 links in the description. Okay. And for 50:28 Twitter, I think I'm Berto Bro on Tik 50:29 Tok. I'm Berto TV. Same with the 50:31 YouTube. I'm Berto. So any of those you 50:33 could find my Fortnite channels and like 50:35 if you want to look at like how I 50:36 promote maps and stuff, you could just 50:38 go on my Tik Tok, look at my most 50:41 popular and just kind of filter through 50:42 like which one are the map promos. But 50:44 uh yeah. Awesome. Well, thanks again, 50:47 Berto. We'll we'll we'll see you later. 50:48 Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. 50:50 No problem. Don't forget to follow me on 50:52 social media for updates, behind the 50:53 scene moments, and more creative 50:55 insights. If you have any question, 50:57 recommendations, or suggestions for 50:59 future guests, please reach out through 51:01 my socials links in description. I love 51:04 hearing from you and learning how we can 51:05 make this podcast even better. Stay 51:07 creative and keep the juices flowing. 51:09 See you next time.