0:00 This one was recorded live at Unreal 0:02 Fest in Chicago. And these three ran 0:04 straight off the State of Unreal keynote 0:06 to the mic. First, you get their 0:07 unfiltered take on everything Epic just 0:09 dropped. UE6 scene graph and burst, the 0:12 discovery changes in AI tools. Then we 0:14 get into some real questions. Why some 0:16 games blow up, why others stall, and how 0:18 to actually make money off a map without 0:20 nickeling dimeing players, when to bet 0:22 on gameplay over visuals, and how to 0:24 build a brand that pulls deals to you. 0:26 Whether you are building a studio or 0:28 just building because you love it, there 0:29 is a lane in here for you. 0:31 >> UEIE6 is coming. Learn scene graph and 0:33 verse. And that's something that I've 0:35 always enjoyed is that there's this 0:36 future proof in the way that UEFn is 0:38 this baby UE6. We're the guinea pigs of 0:40 scene graph and verse. 0:41 >> And there is a question every builder 0:43 hits eventually whether they are in this 0:45 for the love of it or trying to make it 0:46 pay. 0:47 >> If you combine the passion with the 0:48 business, the business gets you through 0:50 the grind. I can see [music] the future. 0:52 I can see that grind paying off. So, I'm 0:54 going to keep going through the grind. 0:56 >> Stick around for the state of Unreal 0:57 stat that should change what you build 0:59 next, the monetization move that earns 1:01 without burning your players, and the 1:03 one habit all three credit for the deals 1:05 they land. Let's go. 1:07 >> This is Creative Juice. 1:10 >> I know we all just ran from State of 1:12 Unreal, but first off, guys, I really 1:14 just want to thank everyone for coming. 1:17 Um, honestly, I never would have 1:19 imagined uh where this podcast would 1:21 have, you know, where it headed, where 1:24 it's going. And all honestly, all of 1:26 this is because of you. I'm just a guy 1:27 who loves talking about building 1:30 um and talking with other people who 1:32 love building as well. And I get to do 1:34 that because of this podcast. So, 1:36 seriously, thank all of you. Um, I also 1:39 want to thank our past guests and 1:41 current guests. These guys are actually 1:42 the first two-time guests, all three of 1:44 them, um, today. So, no, again, thank 1:47 you all for everyone who's come on the 1:49 show and trusted me with their stories 1:52 and, um, shared, you know, gatekeeping 1:54 knowledge almost in this space to help 1:56 out other creators. And the amount of 1:58 people who have come up to me and said, 2:00 you know, things they've learned um, 2:02 just from this podcast and that's helped 2:04 them is actually a lot of people. So, 2:06 again, thanks everyone for that. He did 2:09 already mention silence your phones. 2:11 This is a live audience podcast. It's 2:14 not live record. It's it's being 2:15 recorded. This will go out as soon as I 2:18 get this the video from this. Um and um 2:22 yeah, so the topic today we're going to 2:24 be talking about is, you know, a lot of 2:27 us are building right now. Um and we 2:30 kind of want to figure out, you know, 2:31 why are some blowing up? Why are some 2:33 kind of, you know, not finding that 2:35 success? And then kind of what are the 2:37 top creators doing differently? I do 2:39 kind of want to um you know I I want to 2:42 point this out a little bit. This the 2:44 the whole audience here I'm sure is we 2:46 have some people who are brand new in 2:47 this space or just interested in this 2:49 space all the way from top studios and 2:50 top developers who are already crushing 2:52 it. So we will do our best um to try to 2:55 get you guys some cool answers. But I 2:57 will say this at at the end we will 2:59 leave time for a question and answer. So 3:00 if you don't get your um you know answer 3:03 please come up. We also um there will be 3:06 some giveaways for some of the best um 3:09 questions. So start thinking of those 3:11 right now. Um lastly before we start, if 3:15 you guys take pictures in here, take 3:16 pictures with swag, stickers, anything. 3:18 Please tag me. I will interact with all 3:20 of them. Retweet, please do that. All 3:22 right. Now, let me uh introduce these 3:26 guys here. Well, normally I introduce 3:27 these guys. If you guys watch the show, 3:29 always an intro I'll introduce first, 3:31 but today we're changing that up a 3:33 little bit. I'm gonna let these guys 3:34 introduce themselves. 3:36 >> Uh, hi everyone. I'm Kevin, uh, 3:38 co-founder and CEO of Future Trash, 3:40 which is the game studio, uh, known in 3:43 UFN as FOD. 3:45 >> And I'm Chad Mustard. I'm the COO and 3:47 co-founder of Joo Studios, also known as 3:50 Mustard Plays. Been in the the Fortnite 3:53 community since Fortnite started back 3:55 with Save the World. So, it's been a 3:57 long time. 3:58 >> Uh, yeah. Uh, my name is Austin 4:00 Rodriguez, but definitely more known as 4:03 Tom Jenk. You could call me Tom Jenk. I 4:06 actually prefer it. 4:07 >> I refuse to call him Austin. [laughter] 4:09 >> Uh, but I've been I'm a a little late to 4:12 the party. I started right with UFN 4:14 dropping in. And I posted a couple 4:17 things on Twitter and then I blinked and 4:19 now I'm here and real fast. So, in the 4:22 professional Fortnite developer, I I 4:24 focus on mechanics, but I uh have worked 4:27 in all spaces, whether it be with big 4:29 collaborations or just solo projects. 4:32 So, 4:33 >> awesome. So, yeah, man. These guys have 4:35 been crushing it all in their own lanes. 4:37 Before we get rolling, I do want to see 4:39 kind of a quick hands. Who in this room 4:41 released their first game in the last 4:44 year? 4:46 One, two, three. We had three people. 4:48 Four, five. Okay, that's good. And like 4:50 who has released more than one game over 4:53 the last few years? 4:57 All right. So, we do have like a a good 4:59 amount of, you know, um different p um 5:02 you know, levels of creators up here. 5:04 So, that's that's good to know. I just 5:05 kind of wanted I have something a little 5:06 later actually planned for this. Um so, 5:09 like I said, we have three lanes, one 5:11 ecosystem. We all just watch the state 5:14 of Unreal. So, we have to start there, 5:16 of course. So, let's break it down. 5:19 um have not had time to prepare for this 5:22 at all. We all just I'm still out of 5:24 breath from running. Um but I guess how 5:27 how I think we should do this is just 5:29 like what were some of the announcements 5:30 and let's just see what like like your 5:32 first reactions or first takes on any of 5:34 this. So, 5:36 >> um I think I think for me the biggest 5:38 thing was just it was just the 5:40 re-emphasis to not only us but to the 5:44 world at large and the game developers 5:45 that are in UE5 that hey UE6 is coming 5:49 learn scene graph and verse and that's 5:51 something that I've always enjoyed is 5:52 that there's this future proof in the 5:54 way that UEFn is this baby UE6 like 5:57 we're the guinea pigs of scene graph and 5:59 verse and we're going to have 6:00 >> we're the test rats. 6:01 >> Yeah. [laughter] 6:02 >> Yes. we're going to have years of 6:04 experience in the in the mud with it 6:06 that other developers won't have. So 6:08 even if something goes wrong and I'm not 6:10 able to make UFN stuff, I know that I 6:13 can easily pivot to other stuff. 6:15 >> Yeah. Yeah. I think that was actually I 6:17 mean that that to me was my main thing 6:18 that stood out to me is this room is uh 6:22 going to be so much more experienced 6:24 because who knows when the UE6 is 6:26 actually they're going to have the early 6:28 release next year maybe. Yes. 6:30 >> Right. probably like 20 p.m. 6:34 >> you if you're diving into scene graph 6:36 and burst right now and really knowing 6:38 that like you this room the value in 6:41 this room is going to be immense for 6:44 whether it's building your own projects 6:46 and like launching your own platforms on 6:49 UE6 or whatever or going on to future 6:53 awesome opportunities at big studios 6:55 that have lots of money that say oh my 6:57 gosh you have five years of experience 6:59 in burst already. Yeah, 7:01 >> come come come be a my our lead of of 7:04 development at whatever studio. So like 7:07 that to me is uh the stuff you're doing 7:10 now isn't just making Fortnite maps or 7:13 whatever friend slop or whatever. It is 7:15 it is you're developing tools that are 7:18 going to going to benefit you for the 7:21 rest of your life. 7:22 >> Yeah. No, for sure. For sure. What else? 7:24 What else? I think so we got um the 7:26 official Simpsons um coming into 7:29 Fortnite UFN. I think that's pretty 7:31 pretty cool myself. I mean, are you guys 7:33 already thinking what games we want to 7:34 build on that already or? 7:36 >> Yeah, I started thinking about I mean I 7:38 I wasn't sure like what the next collab 7:40 was going to be. Yeah. 7:41 >> Um 7:43 and I think Simpsons 7:46 is a really interesting one. I it did so 7:48 well last last forever. It was really 7:50 fun. I I see a lot of really fun like 7:53 Tycoon or whatever type games. So I'm 7:55 >> I think there'll be a lot of fun to have 7:57 with that IP and yeah other exciting 7:59 announcements. The changes coming to 8:00 Discover I think a positive signal to an 8:02 evolving platform and less of a flagship 8:05 title with uh you know it's becoming 8:07 more of an ecosystem and prioritizing 8:09 the creations from the developer 8:10 community. 8:11 >> Yeah. No, that that's also a strong one. 8:14 I think I think that's kind I think is 8:16 there any other major announcement I'm 8:18 missing here? 8:19 I mean, there's all the AI tools. Yeah, 8:21 >> it's kind of massive. 8:23 >> Yeah. 8:23 >> Um, and I I mean, I that that Epic isn't 8:27 necessarily trying to build their own AI 8:28 tool. They're just integrating the big 8:30 ones out there. 8:31 >> Um, I know AI is a very sensitive 8:33 subject 8:35 >> in all in all communities because it 8:37 affects so many people from artists to 8:40 programmers to to whatever. And um it'll 8:44 be interesting to see how people adapt 8:46 to it. Yeah. And um with it actually 8:50 like integrating into Unreal Engine 5.8 8:53 and maybe au my guess is it'll be in UFN 8:56 at some point. 8:57 >> Yeah. 8:58 >> Uh like more integrated like it is in 9:00 5.8. Um it's just it's just opening up 9:03 doors for people that were maybe blocked 9:06 before. So it's it'll be interesting to 9:08 see how people adapt. 9:09 >> No, for sure. For sure. I know it's a s 9:11 sensitive subject, but um yeah, I mean I 9:14 was blown. I mean, we've all seen what 9:15 kind of AI can do, but seeing it build 9:18 those worlds at that scale was I was 9:21 speechless. It It was crazy. So, no, 9:23 it's a interesting time in our industry 9:25 for sure. 9:27 >> Um 9:27 >> I I I just like speaking on the devil 9:29 advocate, just please. That's why we're 9:31 Yeah. 9:32 >> To me, I'm worried about it. Oh yeah, 9:34 >> I think that that there's a lot of 9:36 optimism in the space even though we're 9:38 seeing the tokenization, LM's getting 9:40 worse and things like that because right 9:42 now AI is being subsidized to get market 9:45 cap capture market share. Yeah. 9:47 >> And so are we going to start seeing ads 9:49 and stuff getting worse and worse as 9:50 they need to actually make profits? 9:52 Yeah. 9:52 >> I I am wary of assigning my skills to a 9:57 subscription. Yeah. 9:58 >> You know, and so I I get I wouldn't be 10:01 me Tom Jenk. I wouldn't be here right 10:03 now if I didn't get the chance to do 10:05 grunt work for the seniors in my college 10:08 class. 10:09 >> Yeah. 10:09 >> Because then they would have just used 10:11 AI and then I never would have had any 10:13 of the experience to get to the point 10:14 where I am now. And so I'm a little wary 10:16 on it. But 10:17 >> yeah, 10:17 >> just to give the the devil's advocate 10:20 side of things. 10:21 >> Yeah. I as you go I think I think you 10:24 know what I hope for is it's it's a tool 10:27 that developers can use and it's not a 10:30 replacement for developers. Um it can 10:32 just you know may maybe you actually 10:34 need more developers actually but you 10:36 can actually even create bigger more 10:38 expansive worlds do more things you know 10:40 that's what I hope hope uh it's not the 10:42 one prompt your here's your game but you 10:44 know but more of a um something that is 10:48 just more of a tool but time will tell 10:50 on that and it's definitely uh something 10:52 interesting I know we'll all be watching 10:53 all right for a fun question next on 10:55 this though what didn't get announced 10:57 that you guys were hoping got announced 10:59 at state of unreal 11:02 I I wish that there was a larger roadmap 11:04 for UFN. I felt like um the announcement 11:07 of UE6 which is awesome and I'm excited 11:10 to see I think in the way because UFN is 11:13 such a big part of that there wasn't as 11:15 much of a focus on what our future looks 11:18 like whether it is in that interim 11:20 space. 11:21 >> Yeah. Like we got a few things that 11:23 we've seen for a while on the road map 11:25 that's like by the end of the year, but 11:26 we it wasn't specific enough for us to 11:29 be excited about it because 11:31 >> anything could move like we've seen in 11:33 the road map and so we're not really 11:34 sure. 11:35 >> Yeah. They didn't actually announce 11:36 anything for [laughter] 11:38 >> it it was they're like it's cool we 11:41 released custom weapons but then there 11:42 was like well what's next? 11:44 >> Yeah. Yeah. 11:45 >> Yeah. I I I agree. there's things on our 11:48 road map, you know, like island 11:49 interconnectability and all of those 11:51 things or m um m making larger worlds, 11:54 stuff like that. I was I was kind of 11:56 hoping more to see or just just yeah, 11:58 even just an updated road map um would 12:01 be nice, but I don't know. There's 12:02 there's a lot of show left this week, so 12:03 hopefully hopefully we'll get more info 12:05 on all of that. 12:07 All right, guys, let's get into the 12:09 questions. 12:11 So the real question is and kind of the 12:14 reason we're here is kind of like, you 12:16 know, what are the top creators doing 12:17 differently? So Chad, I want to go to 12:19 you first on this one. You know, you're 12:21 running Joo like a, you know, real game 12:23 company, real wages, um, a real team, 12:26 the whole thing. You know, a lot of 12:28 people are trying to make it from a 12:29 passion project, um, to a real business. 12:32 You know, you've already been doing 12:33 that, you know, like what actually 12:35 changes when you make that jump? 12:38 >> I mean, it's an interesting question. 12:40 Um, I think it's hard for me to answer 12:44 because 12:46 I think if you're looking at this as Oh, 12:48 okay. I don't want to I I want to be 12:50 careful how I say these things. 12:52 >> Yeah. 12:52 >> Um, 12:53 >> so 12:55 I'll just give a quick example. 12:57 >> When I started my YouTube career, 13:00 >> Yeah. 13:00 >> Um, it was because I wanted to start 13:02 playing video games again. I had stopped 13:04 playing video games for years because I 13:05 was like, I'm going to school. I'm 13:07 working full-time. I wanted to get 13:09 married and I love video games, but 13:11 those things don't all coexist. 13:13 >> Yeah. 13:13 >> Like I just didn't have time to do all 13:14 of it. So I was like, "All right, video 13:16 games has to go." 13:17 >> So when I found my wife, we were 13:20 engaged. I was like, "I want to get back 13:21 into gaming now." [laughter] 13:23 >> And uh mission accomplished. 13:25 >> And she was like, "I hate video games." 13:28 >> And uh but I was like, "Well, what if I 13:30 did this as a business?" Like, and she 13:33 was like, "Oh, I can get behind that." 13:35 So I started my YouTube channel playing 13:37 I wanted to play Overwatch to just come 13:39 out and I started playing Overwatch 13:41 streaming it and eventually that turned 13:42 into oh um Fortnite exact and it like my 13:46 career went that way but I always 13:48 throughout the whole time I was like how 13:51 can I make this into something 13:53 >> that I can like support my family 13:55 eventually. Yeah. 13:56 >> And it took years to get to the point 13:57 where I was even making any money at all 13:59 off my YouTube channel. And but I always 14:02 had a business mindset mixed with my 14:05 passion of video games. And so I think 14:07 the same thing is like if you're in get 14:10 to UFN and like people are like, "Oh, if 14:12 you're not doing this as a passion, 14:13 you're a sellout or something." 14:15 >> Yeah. 14:16 >> That's just one that's false. Two, uh if 14:20 you're doing it just as a passion, the 14:22 people that I see do it just as a 14:23 passion almost always fade away. 14:26 >> Yeah. Like the passion will at some 14:29 point the grind's going to get to you 14:30 and you're like, I have no passion 14:32 anymore. I'm out. 14:34 >> But the business side is like if you com 14:37 if you combine the passion with the 14:38 business, then the business gets you 14:41 through the grind. 14:42 >> Yeah. 14:43 >> Because I'm like, well, I can see the 14:45 future. I can see that grind paying off. 14:47 So, I'm going to keep going through the 14:49 grind because it's once you get into 14:50 that grind part, 14:53 this is where I the killing yourself 14:55 part. Yeah. 14:56 >> Right. So, I'm not telling you to kill 14:57 yourself. What I'm saying is like you 14:59 have to fight through that grind part. 15:02 That is when it's like you finally break 15:04 through and now your passion and your 15:06 grind, the business is all kind of 15:08 together and it becomes this really 15:10 awesome thing. But there's there's 15:12 times, man, there's times in the 15:14 business all all everyone up here could 15:16 talk about it where it is just 15:18 >> the worst cuz it's like the business 15:21 side sucks sometimes. You're like, I 15:22 just wish I could just sit down and 15:23 build. 15:24 >> Yeah. But I don't I can't because I got 15:26 to do all the business side of things. 15:27 >> Um but because I started with that 15:29 mentality of like I want to make this my 15:31 career, 15:33 >> it's okay because I'm like I'm willing 15:35 to work through that and I'm like I'll 15:36 have to stop and remind myself, oh we 15:38 just got to build a Star Wars game. 15:39 That's amazing or whatever. And so, uh, 15:43 I I hope right now if you're doing it as 15:46 a just as a passion, start thinking of 15:49 it as a business is that's my advice is 15:51 and whether you're a solo developer or 15:54 you have a big team. 15:56 >> Yeah. 15:56 >> Like if you're thinking it of it as a 15:58 business, then you're intentionally 16:00 doing things 16:02 >> and and in 10 years you'll still be 16:05 doing your passion. 16:06 >> Yes. as opposed to in a year now you're 16:08 working for someone else or you're doing 16:10 something else that's not game related 16:11 at all. 16:12 >> Yeah. No, I think that's great advice. 16:14 Um it it is 16:18 I don't know it's tough. It's tough 16:19 because you do have to have like I don't 16:23 know if if you're in this space and 16:25 you're trying to make games that to earn 16:27 an income, right? You do have to start 16:30 making some kind of games that the 16:32 audience wants, right? And a lot of 16:33 times that's might not be the game that 16:35 you like to make. And so, you know, I 16:39 feel like there's two sides to this, 16:40 right? It's like I I really believe you 16:42 should make those games you love and 16:44 passion and maybe they take off and 16:45 great. Um, but then you also have to 16:47 kind of think about like, well, how do I 16:48 keep the lights on, right? And so, you 16:50 have there's a maybe I do have to go 16:52 make, you know, a brain rot game, RVB, 16:55 whatever, right? You like you gotta you 16:57 got to think of those both of those 16:59 sides. But, you know, at the end of the 17:00 day, it's it's up to the creator and and 17:02 kind of like what you know what what 17:04 you're here for, right? So, Jenk, this 17:07 one's for you. All right. 17:08 >> All right. 17:08 >> Um, you've named yourself after 17:10 embracing the jank. [laughter] 17:12 So many of us freeze to make something 17:15 perfect. You had a bunch of halfarted 17:17 maps, then made one in three hours and 17:19 shipped it. You know, what does Embrace 17:21 the Jake mean? And, you know, how did 17:23 that change everything for you? 17:25 Um, I think for me I started looking at 17:28 it more as like a puzzle when it came 17:31 down to it. I have a game I want to make 17:33 and I have all these random tools or 17:36 they're creative devices, scene graph 17:37 and all this stuff and I just have to 17:40 how do I force this into that and 17:42 obviously you have to make some 17:43 compromises. Sometimes things aren't 17:45 working out. But for me kind of just as 17:48 I started my name Tom Jen came from me 17:52 being nervous about this perfectionism. 17:54 I was worried about tweeting stuff and I 17:57 was like I don't know like under my name 17:59 you can look at my LinkedIn like it just 18:01 it just I really got in my head with it 18:03 and so I was like okay I'm going to be 18:04 it was originally Tom Grinch. I was like 18:07 I'm just going to put a name and just 18:09 post random random stuff. I'm going to 18:12 publish as many maps as I can in a 18:13 couple weeks just to learn that process 18:16 because even before I published my first 18:18 map, I was getting some like fame of a 18:22 guy that's making cool stuff and making 18:24 weird things. And I was so stressed for 18:26 my first project. I was like, "Ah, it's 18:28 not going to be as cool as people hoped 18:30 it was going to be." But then I was 18:31 like, "Screw it. I made something in 18:32 three hours." It was the silly uh maze 18:35 where you're in a car. And this is when 18:37 we found out about the time dilation. 18:40 And so I basically every second the time 18:42 dilation got worse and it became harder 18:44 to drive around this maze and just 18:46 something silly like that. And sometimes 18:48 you just have to make a warm-up or or 18:50 rip something out and post it because 18:52 it's a muscle. You slowly start to train 18:55 that whether it be posting on social 18:57 media or just making maps that you're 19:00 >> you're not like it's not the best thing 19:01 in the world but you just kind of accept 19:03 that it is what it is and it's got to go 19:05 out. 19:05 >> Yeah. No, it's I think a lot of us get 19:08 into that announce paralysis scared to 19:10 post. I mean, I'm making games right now 19:12 and I'm so scared. It's like and and I'm 19:15 the one always telling you guys, don't 19:16 be scared. Post your post your mouse, 19:18 but it's it's it's a real fear. Um um so 19:22 but you just got to do it and and and 19:23 you did that, right? So, I think that's 19:25 really cool. I wanted to bring that up. 19:27 Um something I I have to point out first 19:29 here before you get into your question, 19:30 Kevin. We have actually two guys who 19:32 have two massive Star Wars maps up here. 19:35 Um Chad and Jo with Galactic Siege and 19:37 Kevin with um in F with Droid Tycoon. 19:40 Both crushing it. I want to actually, 19:42 you know, we'll get into um GA Galactic 19:44 Siege here in a little bit with uh Chad. 19:46 But, you know, for you, Kevin, Droid 19:49 Tycoon, one of the biggest launches 19:51 creative has ever seen as an official 19:53 Star War collab and actually an official 19:55 um collab working with Epic Games as a 19:57 creative studio, which is incredible. 20:00 So, what does it take to build 20:02 something, you know, that holds players 20:04 like that and, you know, keeping it 20:05 alive, you know? 20:07 >> Yeah. Uh, you know, it was a lot of 20:10 effort, uh, studying the lore and the 20:12 the mythology of the droids and staying 20:14 true to that, but then adapting it for 20:16 Fortnite in an authentic and organic 20:18 way. Um, there's a 20:22 a big credit is owed to Blazen, Shane, 20:25 another creator who we collaborated with 20:27 on the project. Um, who really like 20:29 unlocked a lot of value for uh the game 20:31 design and the balancing. So, it kind of 20:33 like lends itself to the spirit of UGC, 20:35 like be open to collaboration. and don't 20:37 be territorial about uh like things 20:39 you're working on. And so like that was 20:40 like truly an example of like the whole 20:42 was greater than the sum of its parts. 20:44 >> Yeah. 20:44 >> Um and so it was just you know I I wish 20:47 there was a secret recipe to launching a 20:49 successful game. There there's a dark 20:51 art and alchemy to it and to be honest 20:53 it exceeded all of our expectations in 20:55 terms of the player response and the 20:56 feedback. Like we were super passionate 20:58 about it and we put a crazy amount of 21:00 work into it. Yeah. 21:01 >> Uh but that's not always all that's 21:03 needed to make a successful game. 21:05 There's a little bit of luck. um 21:06 involved. 21:07 >> Um but uh but yeah, I think like uh 21:10 mainly like that spirit of collaboration 21:12 and being uh you know, really throwing 21:14 everything you have at at a project. 21:15 >> Yeah. No, I I think it's just it's so 21:18 cool to see um you know, Epic working 21:21 with creator studios, you know, kind of 21:23 giving back to um back to creative in 21:27 those studios and letting them do what 21:29 they do best. you know, no one knows. 21:32 Um, you know, we've seen AAA a lot of 21:35 really cool, talented people come into 21:37 our community and maybe not have that 21:39 success, but the guys that have been in 21:41 creative for years and, you know, 21:44 getting our butts kicked, for lack of a 21:45 better a better term, um, and figuring 21:49 it out kind of the hard way are are the 21:51 guys that should be in that spot helping 21:54 um, you know, get getting those games 21:56 out there. So, honestly, like hats off 21:58 to you guys and congrats on that. Thank 21:59 you. 22:00 >> Yeah, we're gonna speed it up a little 22:02 bit. We're going to do a rapid fire. If 22:04 you guys remember, I used like the early 22:06 Creative Juice podcast episodes. At the 22:07 end, I'll do like a rapid fire question. 22:09 I brought it back today just for a 22:10 little nostalgia, but this one will be a 22:12 little fun. Quick answers. Um, I'm just 22:15 going to name say a question and you 22:17 guys, whoever takes just feel free. It's 22:19 for fun here. All right. What do you 22:21 think one thing creators overthink? 22:27 I 22:27 >> think the visuals. Yeah, 22:28 >> it's really easy to just go deep into 22:30 the visuals, but yeah, going too far 22:32 into that get makes your island heavier, 22:34 makes it longer for players to download 22:36 the thing. Yeah, 22:38 >> it it makes everything more difficult, 22:39 which is painful because you want to 22:41 make it beautiful and amazing, but 22:42 >> yeah, 22:43 >> sometimes you got to go with the more 22:45 >> we go pretty deep in the visual, 22:47 [laughter] 22:47 >> but I do know what you mean. 22:48 >> Yeah. 22:49 >> Well, I I remember I worked on a project 22:51 with you guys. I remember [laughter] 22:53 trying to push changes and I was like, 22:54 "Oh, so beautiful." The point though is 22:57 the gameplay loops number one and then 22:59 visuals. And when you can combine those 23:00 two, then you get something like Droid 23:02 Tycoon, right? You had to have that 23:04 gameplay loop first and because Droid 23:06 Tycoon would have failed if you didn't 23:08 have the gameplay loop. So like it's the 23:10 gameplay loop one then visuals. And if 23:13 you have to choose one, choose 23:15 >> the gameplay loop. 23:16 >> 100%. 23:16 >> A good analysis. Yeah. 23:17 >> Yeah. All right. What's the most 23:19 overrated number everyone chases? 23:26 Uh, 23:27 >> they're all kind of important. 23:28 >> Yeah. I was like, [laughter] I'm not 23:30 going to say CCU because that's number 23:32 one. 23:32 >> No, it is. 23:33 >> Um, 23:35 I don't know. Time for sleep. I don't 23:37 know. 23:37 >> Yeah. [laughter] 23:38 All right. We'll edit that one out in 23:40 post. Oh, man. 23:42 >> All right. What's the hottest take on 23:43 Discovery? 23:47 >> I think the recent changes are good. 23:51 >> Is that a [laughter] hot take? 23:54 Uh, I think we need to make better 23:56 games. [laughter] 23:57 >> Okay. 23:58 >> For Discovery to promote more and not 24:00 [clears throat] just games that we 24:01 worked a long time on, but like 24:03 >> better games. 24:04 >> I I think we're heading in the right 24:05 direction with Discovery. It's been 24:07 rough the last couple of years. It's 24:08 like progressively I feel like gotten 24:10 worse. 24:11 >> Yeah. 24:11 >> But I feel like right now it's kind of 24:13 like 24:15 >> maybe taken a turn for the better. And 24:18 so I I'm hoping to see that. And I agree 24:20 with Tom. Like I feel like a lot I see a 24:22 lot of people complaining about my map's 24:24 not getting featured. I'm like, well, 24:27 >> we need to make better maps, right? And 24:29 and in general, and including Joo or 24:32 whatever, right? There's there's things 24:33 we're learning as you produce more. 24:36 You're going to start to learn, okay, 24:38 why didn't people play this game? Uh I 24:41 mean, you guys have had you've iterated 24:43 so many times off of your games, too. 24:44 And same with us, like not everything's 24:47 a a home run. Not everything's a Droid 24:49 Tycoon or a whatever. 24:50 >> Yeah. Right? Like it takes time to learn 24:52 those things and you have to produce and 24:55 and learn from your mistakes and then 24:57 your games get better and then all of a 24:58 sudden you have something that's 25:00 >> that you can build a company off of, 25:03 right? So 25:04 >> yeah. 25:04 >> Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. 25:05 >> Being able to like observe and analyze 25:07 the data and track your points of 25:08 failure, knowing where you need to 25:09 improve, whether it's iteration on that 25:11 game or planning for the next game. 25:13 Yeah. 25:13 >> Um 25:14 >> Yeah. And I'm trying to go back to your 25:16 question on like what's the most uh 25:17 chase after metric. I don't know. Like 25:19 maybe average play time. I don't know. 25:21 >> Yeah. 25:22 >> Like no, it's kind of 25:23 >> retention. Retention is super. Retention 25:25 is very important. Very important. 25:27 >> They're all important, I guess. Horrible 25:28 question. I don't know that. It wasn't 25:30 me. Um, no. All right, guys. All right. 25:33 We're going to break it up here a little 25:35 bit. I want to kind of involve you guys 25:36 in this show because if it wasn't for 25:39 all of you, this wouldn't be happening. 25:40 So, um, we're gonna This is kind of the 25:43 first giveaway. We will have another 25:44 giveaway um later on as well. Um, but 25:47 basically I'm just going to um, and I 25:51 can't even see the audience, so I did 25:52 not plan this also very well. So, but 25:55 how how it's going to happen is I'm 25:56 going to ask a question for the audience 25:57 and I just raise your hand if you know 25:59 the answer. We're going to try to see 26:01 who raised their hand first. We'll do 26:03 our best. Like, this is for fun. If you 26:06 raise your hand first, we didn't pick on 26:07 you. I'm sorry. Come find me after. 26:09 We'll we'll I'll figure it out. Don't 26:11 worry about it. Um, and then lastly, 26:13 like if you do win, just after the show, 26:16 come find me. Um, these are for the 26:17 sweatshirts up here and I'll get you 26:19 your size. So, just anything for the 26:21 giveaways today. Just come back and I'll 26:23 I'll get you get you some uh swag here. 26:26 >> All right. Now, I got to see you guys 26:28 have help me, too. Help me, too. All 26:30 right. All right. We're going to start 26:32 from easy to harder. Okay. What does 26:34 UEFN stand for? 26:36 >> Uh, right here in the front. 26:42 Who is the second hand? [laughter] 26:46 >> Right here then. Go 26:49 >> editor. 26:50 >> That's it. Unreal editor. Yeah, 26:52 [laughter] there's a curveball. Don't 26:54 worry. I've heard people from FA call it 26:55 Unreal Engine. All right. So, you're 26:58 okay. No. No. All right. The next one. 27:00 All right. Who was or Yeah. Who was FD's 27:03 first parkour collab with? 27:07 >> Oh, I see someone in the back. That was 27:09 first. Okay, shout it out. Mr. Beast, 27:13 that is correct. 27:14 >> Nice. 27:15 >> I forgot about that one. 27:18 >> Okay. Okay. 27:20 Raise your hand. Does Chad actually like 27:22 mustard? 27:24 >> Well, I I did not see who was first on. 27:25 >> It might have been Sven. 27:26 >> I was. 27:27 >> Wait, what was the question? 27:29 >> Do you actually like mustard? 27:31 >> That's a good question. [laughter] 27:33 >> Go ahead. It's a yes or no. 27:36 >> I do like mustard. 27:39 [laughter] Sorry, Sven. 27:40 >> I mean, I don't Give Sven the shirt. 27:42 >> All right. Here. Here's a Here's a 27:43 better one. [laughter] 27:45 >> Here's a better one. Does Chad like 27:46 bananas? 27:48 >> All right. 27:49 >> Yeah. 27:51 >> I hate them. 27:52 >> There you go. There you go. There you 27:53 go. 27:54 >> The whole reason peely was made because 27:56 I hate bananas. [laughter] 27:57 >> Really? Yeah. 27:58 >> Wow. 27:59 >> My brother's like, "We got to get a 28:00 banana." 28:01 >> Yeah, we got it immediately. 28:02 >> That's 28:03 >> um All right. What is Tom Janks Mindset? 28:07 mindset. 28:10 >> That's it. There you go. Nice. 28:12 >> All right. This one's a deep cut. 28:14 >> All right. What was my most viral tweet 28:17 around this deli meat? 28:20 >> What? 28:23 >> Salami. 28:24 >> Salami. That's it, man. That was a deep 28:26 one. That was a deep one. All right. 28:28 This one, now we're getting a little 28:29 harder. This is a creative 1.0 nod. The 28:33 original trigger device when it was 28:35 released, how many channels did it have? 28:37 >> Oh, I think it was right here. Yeah, 28:39 you. Yeah, 28:41 >> go ahead. I didn't see. Go ahead. 28:44 >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 28:45 >> Yeah. You 28:46 >> channel. 28:46 >> That's correct. Eight channels. Let's 28:48 go. All right. Last. 28:49 >> And that was huge. 28:50 >> That was huge. No, it was the things I 28:52 made with eight channels is an unreal. 28:54 Actually, 28:54 >> I'm sure glad we're done with that. 28:56 >> Yeah. You're 28:58 going 28:59 >> You guys have it so easy. [laughter] 29:02 Um, 29:02 >> talk about jank. 29:05 >> It was jank. 29:06 >> All right, here here's the last one and 29:08 then I'll um All right. The new system 29:11 replacing devices and props. 29:13 >> Ian, 29:14 >> go ahead. 29:15 >> That's it, man. All right. Clever like, 29:18 let's go. Okay, we will have more 29:20 giveaways, so don't don't worry. Um, I 29:22 do want to say um who when I when I 29:25 called who released their first map in 29:27 the first year. Can you guys raise your 29:28 hands again? 29:32 Yeah, there's a couple over. 29:33 >> All right, awesome. So, everyone who 29:35 released their first map, it's not easy. 29:37 It's very hard. And I want to, you know, 29:39 take my hats off for you. The LEGO group 29:41 actually provided some sets to give away 29:44 today as well, which is very cool of 29:45 them. Thank you so much. So, everyone 29:47 who launched their first game this year, 29:49 please come see me after the show again 29:51 and you guys can pick up a Lego set. 29:53 >> There's a Game Boy. 29:54 >> Yeah, there's a freaking cool and a 29:56 brand new Lego Fortnite sets as well. 30:00 >> All right. 30:01 That's enough for the giveaways for now. 30:02 We'll get back to it again. So, let's 30:04 get tactical. All right. So, Chad, 30:07 you're running live maps at real scale 30:10 right now, including Galactic Siege. You 30:12 know, you live in the numbers. How do 30:14 you make, you know, real money off maps, 30:16 especially with the new in island 30:18 purchases without players feeling like 30:20 they're getting like nickeled and dimed? 30:22 >> Sure. Um, 30:24 uh, you know, this is something we're 30:26 still learning. Yeah. Yeah, 30:27 >> we look to Roblox actually for a lot of 30:29 inspiration cuz they've been figuring 30:31 this out for a lot longer than we have. 30:35 >> Um, I think the number one thing for me 30:37 is not to 30:40 gate things behind a payw wall, but to 30:43 just reduce grind. So, like if your 30:45 game's fun and people want to grind it, 30:48 that's awesome. But then there's some 30:49 people that come in and they just want 30:51 to reduce the grind on it. and instead 30:53 of doing the secret or you know hitting 30:57 the robot for a hundred times, they can 31:00 like I can just pay to get past that. 31:02 Yeah. 31:03 >> And um so I think that is the way we're 31:06 kind of looking at it right now is like 31:07 what what are monetization things we can 31:10 do to where they can, you know, 31:12 basically skip a few hours of game play 31:15 um so they can get further along in the 31:17 game. And that's tough to do in some in 31:19 some things where you're if it's a 31:21 combat map or something all of a sudden 31:22 people are like is that pay to win? Is 31:24 that whatever? So there is that like you 31:26 have to have the right balance for it in 31:29 like tycoons or games where it's more 31:31 like single player like side by side 31:34 >> then it's like it's less of a big deal. 31:36 And that's why you you're seeing like 31:38 the tycoon type games are 31:41 >> earning really big on transactions 31:43 because you can be a little more free 31:45 with with that. Um, but yeah, I think 31:48 it's uh if it's just reducing grind, but 31:51 there's still a way to grind through it 31:52 and like you don't have to pay for it 31:54 because I know my parents when I was a 31:56 kid would never have allowed me to have 31:58 V-Bucks ever. Like I would have had to 32:00 grind everything. 32:01 >> Yeah. 32:02 >> So, I would just make sure you can still 32:04 do it for free. 32:05 >> Yes. 32:06 >> But 32:07 >> if you can reduce the grind by paying 32:08 for it, that's probably the right 32:10 pathway. That was an interesting stat 32:11 from today actually going back to state 32:13 of Unreal that 75% of in island 32:15 transactions are coming from non-shooter 32:16 practice experiences. 32:18 >> Yeah. No, I agree. I was a great point. 32:20 I was going to bring that up, but it it 32:22 makes sense. I think is in in some 32:24 aspects it is really hard and and a lot 32:27 of even in a lot of the comp maps we 32:29 see, you know, they don't even have in, 32:30 you know, island transactions in it. And 32:34 one, they want to keep their performance 32:35 down. They don't want to add a bunch of 32:37 like, you know, buy a pet SK, you know, 32:40 that 32:40 >> it's tough though. There's not like a 32:42 lot like how can you provide value to 32:44 >> Yeah. You don't want to make it unfair, 32:46 right? So 32:46 >> they're used to having all the best 32:48 guns. 32:49 >> Yes. 32:49 >> And then all a sudden it's like, well, 32:50 what are you going to do? Take away the 32:51 best guns? Like you're not going to do 32:53 that. Like so like you'll lose all your 32:55 players. Y 32:55 >> So you have to make sure your players 32:57 happy first and then find a way to 32:58 provide value. 33:00 >> And it's tough to do in the in the 33:02 combat 33:03 >> for like area. 33:04 >> For real. For real. All right, Austin. 33:06 >> Although custom weapons now, 33:08 >> yeah, 33:08 >> opens a lot of possibilities. 33:10 >> We'll see. So, your Unreal Fest, Austin, 33:13 this one's for you. Your Unreal Fest 33:14 talk last year was basically survival 33:15 guide for the solo creator in here. 33:17 Wondering if this can actually really 33:18 pay the bills. What does making a living 33:20 in this space actually look like, 33:22 including like your maps, commissions, 33:23 brand work, all of it. I know you've 33:25 been involved in all of that. 33:26 >> Yeah. Um, it really comes down to 33:29 marketing yourself at the end of the 33:31 day. if you want those op because for me 33:34 I we kind of talking about like business 33:36 and like how much for me my usual goal I 33:39 always call it the dreamworks method 33:40 sometimes you got to make Shrek 19 to 33:43 pay for the first how to train your 33:44 dragon you know and so I try to balance 33:46 my games to like say stain like 33:49 sometimes I'll make games or you do a 33:51 contract that I'm not so passionate 33:52 about and then I kind of focus a little 33:54 more that's the hope right like to pay 33:56 that pays for the passion projects 33:59 >> um but for me definitely The thing that 34:01 has helped the most is just my general 34:04 branding and the morning warm-ups. 34:06 Almost every person I've met here has 34:08 been like, "Oh, yeah. I loved your 34:09 morning warm-ups and things like that." 34:11 >> And so that builds um not so much I 34:14 don't really have a player audience, 34:15 right? Like my audience is the creators 34:17 and everything. 34:18 >> And that isn't like a direct onetoone, 34:21 but then that just builds my ability to 34:23 contact or get to know other collabs, 34:26 bigger brands. I can work with other 34:28 groups. I'm more trusted. uh working 34:30 with Epic, things like that become 34:32 easier when you have built out this kind 34:35 of very known brand. Yeah. So, I really 34:38 recommend anyone that's starting that to 34:40 start posting, start and get a logo or 34:44 something that people are like, "That's 34:45 me." Don't use a Fortnite skin cuz you 34:48 don't own that. Yeah. 34:49 >> Just something that people will will 34:51 always see it. Even if it's not iconic, 34:53 when you start going, people will start 34:55 building it as iconic. 34:56 >> Yeah. Don't put your finger in your 34:58 nose. 34:58 >> And it's not [laughter] 35:00 And yeah. 35:02 >> Yeah. Choose a good brand. 35:04 >> Yeah. 35:04 >> But like that's the thing like and it's 35:07 not just our 35:09 community here that's watching those 35:10 tweets. 35:10 >> Oh yeah. 35:11 >> There are a lot of people looking at 35:13 LinkedIn and Twitter at the stuff you're 35:16 posting that aren't engaging with it, 35:18 but they are watching it. And it's those 35:20 brands. They're looking for stuff. And 35:22 like I know our community has become a 35:24 little bit more siloed since UFN came 35:27 out. like it used to be. You used to 35:28 share everything 35:29 >> and now we don't share a lot 35:31 >> and 35:32 >> those that are sharing are getting 35:34 noticed, right? So 35:36 >> stop I would say start sharing more and 35:40 it's going to help it's going to help 35:41 you a lot to share. Even though if it's 35:44 like oh wait now people are going to 35:45 reverse engineer what I'm making. 35:46 >> Yeah. 35:48 >> Like it's happened to Tom. I've seen it 35:50 happen to Tom shared some stuff and 35:52 somebody else came out with a map that 35:53 was like 35:54 >> just like it but 35:55 >> power links. What? 35:57 >> But that person right now, who's on 35:59 stage? 36:00 >> Yeah. 36:00 >> Right. Who's getting the brand deals? 36:02 >> Yes. 36:02 >> Right. So, like, 36:04 >> and and it raises all boats. I mean, I 36:06 was at an event yesterday where we were 36:08 t discussing Roblox versus Fortnite and 36:10 it was this Games Beat thing and it was 36:12 at um and there was a lot of like 36:14 investig people in the in the sand. 36:16 Someone came up to me and was like, I'm 36:17 like really going to look into Fortnite 36:19 and like start investing. I obviously 36:21 gave her my card, but like that might 36:23 help any of us in this room. 36:24 >> You need a percentage. people excited 36:26 about the future of it all 36:28 >> and with with Epic 2 saying 36:31 >> UE6 is actually UFN. 36:33 >> Yeah, that was huge today. 36:34 >> That's what I'm saying. The 36:35 opportunities here is massive. Like do 36:37 not sleep on it. Like 36:39 >> yeah, 36:40 >> it's going to be huge. People will be 36:42 coming to everyone in this room. They're 36:44 going to be desperate for developers um 36:46 to help them move into the UE6 world. 36:50 >> Great. 36:50 >> People that know Scene Graph 36:52 >> are going to be very valuable. 36:54 >> For sure. For sure. We I am going to 36:56 speed this up a little bit. We're having 36:57 a lot of fun up here, but I got we are a 37:00 little um long on time here. So, but 37:02 Kevin, you know, when someone loads into 37:04 Ford uh Ford Experience, you know, they 37:07 know right away it's yours, it doesn't 37:10 look or feel generic Fortnite, you know. 37:12 So, for everyone in here trying to stand 37:14 out, you know, when everything looks the 37:15 same, you know, how does that actually 37:16 build like how do you actually build an 37:18 identity like that? 37:20 >> Yeah. uh you know it's it's a big part 37:22 of our strategy to develop that visual 37:25 storytelling that brand identity that 37:27 calling card that gives people uh like 37:29 that gives us the recognition to people 37:30 when they play our games. Um and I'd say 37:32 like don't be afraid of custom assets. 37:33 There's so many talented 3D modelers and 37:36 artists concept artists out there. Um I 37:38 think like it's easy and convenient to 37:41 go to like stock library um stuff which 37:43 is there's nothing wrong with that 37:44 either. Um, but if you really want to 37:46 start crafting and honing in like your 37:48 own uh, yeah, brand identity with 37:51 whatever you're building, I do think um, 37:54 uh, one, it kind of stimulates the the 37:56 creative collaboration that I was kind 37:58 of talking about and like you can work 37:59 with really talented people. 38:01 >> Um, and uh, and yeah, you get something 38:03 with that's just a little more unique 38:05 and a little more your own and and 38:06 that's, you know, we kind of have always 38:09 uh, stayed disciplined around that. Um, 38:11 and I think it's a big part of why our 38:13 games look the way they do. Yeah. No, I 38:15 I mean I I remember uh when you your the 38:18 first like right when UFN launched, you 38:20 you guys like were pretty close. You 38:22 guys released your first um Boom Tycoon 38:25 and I remember going in into that 38:27 experience and that was the first time 38:28 like I went into a creative experience 38:31 and I was just like like stopped me in 38:33 my tracks. I was like, "Oh, this is 38:35 [clears throat] where we're going." Like 38:36 it was like a first example of of like, 38:38 "Oh, wow. This is crazy." It was like 38:40 AAA and and Fortnite Creative UFN. So 38:43 >> that wasn't their first game. 38:44 >> Yeah. Well, that's true. That's true. 38:46 [laughter] 38:47 >> Wasn't their first game in UFN, but 38:48 Yeah. Yeah. 38:49 >> Yeah. Lane Wars. 38:49 >> No, it was it was the It was Lane Wars. 38:51 >> Lane Wars. Yeah. 38:52 >> I did I say Boom Tycoon? I'm so sorry. 38:54 Lane Wars. Yes. Sorry. Sorry. 38:56 >> But no, seriously, 38:57 >> we should bring Lane Wars back. Maybe 38:59 it's time. It's fun. [laughter] 39:01 >> You should. Um All right. So, just the 39:04 giveaway is almost the second giveaway 39:06 is almost next. I'm going to give you a 39:07 little time to think on this though 39:08 while we we jump into the spicy takes 39:10 because that's always fun. Um, I'm gonna 39:13 be asking for like what's your pitch us 39:15 your best game idea and UEFn. All right. 39:18 And some of the best ones you pitch u 39:20 you guys will win some swag. So, all 39:22 right. Let's get into spicy but safe 39:24 takes. This is we're going after ideas, 39:26 not people. And you know, we're cool 39:28 with Epic and other creators, of course. 39:30 And if we're not, we'll cut it in post. 39:31 But, um, a piece of popular Here's 39:34 here's the first question. A piece of 39:35 popular creative advice you think is 39:36 just wrong. 39:38 >> A a popular creative advice. 39:40 >> Yeah. So, like what's some popular 39:41 creative advice people, you know, maybe 39:43 you've seen around? Probably a tweet 39:44 from me. Um, and you think it's just 39:46 wrong? 39:49 >> Creative. I mean, there's I see tweets 39:51 all the time from people are like, "Hey, 39:52 I figured out how to break the system." 39:54 Yeah. 39:55 >> If you just follow me and download my 39:57 program, 39:58 >> pay $10 a month. Yeah. 39:59 >> You're going to be making million. Don't 40:02 Yeah. 40:02 >> Pay attention. Those people don't know 40:03 what they're talking about. 40:04 >> No. No. That's a good one. That's a good 40:06 one. All right. What's something 40:07 everyone is hyped on that you think is a 40:09 bubble? 40:11 AI. 40:13 [laughter] 40:15 Um 40:16 I mean Austin. [laughter] 40:18 >> Yeah, 40:19 >> that was good. 40:21 >> I don't know. 40:22 >> No, I know that that's 40:23 >> tycoons. No, I'm just kidding. 40:25 >> No. Yeah, [laughter] 40:26 >> tycoons. 40:27 >> I hope not. 40:27 >> No, tycoons are 40:29 >> I mean 40:30 >> it'd be I think it's wrong, but brain 40:32 wrong because another one 40:33 >> Oh, yeah. That's Yeah, 40:34 >> that's a good spicy take, but yeah, I 40:36 don't know if I believe it, but um 40:37 >> it's a bubble friend. It's Yeah. 40:40 >> You think Brain's here to stay? Will 40:41 Brain Rod be here in 18 months? 40:44 >> You know, Brain Rod is just the new 40:45 Pokemon. 40:46 >> Yeah. 40:46 >> It's just uh 40:49 >> what like what's going to evolve? It's 40:50 just another way to It's another 40:51 collection type game, right? And it's 40:53 another tycoon. 40:54 >> Yeah. 40:55 >> And uh 40:56 >> but do you think kids will like stop 40:57 caring about even like the word brain? 41:00 Have an allergic reaction? 41:01 >> They they already sort of are in Roblox. 41:02 You know, brain rock games are starting 41:04 to is a little bit more. 41:06 >> No. Interesting. 41:07 >> Yeah. Something's just going to replace 41:09 it. Something else somewhat, you know, f 41:11 maybe. 41:12 >> Yeah, that's right. The F. 41:14 >> All right. All right. So, here we go. 41:15 Let's do giveaway two. If you want to 41:17 stand up, if you have a game idea that 41:19 you want to pitch, um, at short 41:20 sentences, please, just quick. Um, and 41:24 you'll probably win a swag. Go ahead. Go 41:26 ahead. Go ahead, His. 41:27 >> Yeah. What about if you're in box, but 41:31 then 41:33 you like 41:34 >> Hey, no. Cut him. Cut his mic. 41:36 [laughter] 41:38 That one wins for sure though. Go ahead, 41:40 Micah. 41:47 >> Wow, that's 41:48 >> Yeah. 41:50 >> All right, I gotta go. 41:53 >> New collab. 41:54 >> Go ahead. 42:01 >> Okay. 42:01 >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, 42:02 >> that's a really good one. 42:08 Yeah, look, you all won. So, come up 42:10 come after after the come on up. Thanks 42:12 for getting up there. Thank you. 42:19 All right. 42:22 Appreciate. We're gonna We have to wrap 42:24 this to skip a little bit here, but um 42:27 you know this whole um I make sure I'm 42:30 on the right thing. All right. Honestly, 42:31 I just want to give a big thanks to 42:33 everyone all of you guys for coming. 42:34 Thank you so much. Thanks. Thank these 42:36 guys for coming up here and sharing 42:37 knowledge and um really appreciate you 42:40 guys. Thank you for taking out your 42:41 time. This guy had to run from state of 42:44 Unreal right to here. Right. So, no, 42:46 seriously, thank you so much. Um I do 42:49 want to end off with this, right? The 42:50 people winning, I think, in this space, 42:52 they're really not smarter than you. Um 42:54 they just keep showing up, they keep 42:56 shipping, and you know, they're not 42:58 afraid to embrace the jank, right? 43:00 >> That's right. 43:01 >> So, seriously, just go do that. keep 43:03 shipping. Um, and you know, lastly, 43:09 um, 43:10 let's just get into the questions. 43:12 Really, let me I was going to do my 43:14 outro, but, um, this is what I'll do. 43:16 This is what I'll do. I I want to say 43:18 one more thing. I'm sorry this time we 43:19 got like five minutes for questions, but 43:22 I know we had to do this pretty quick 43:23 and and if I want to say this, if you 43:25 didn't get your answers that you were 43:27 looking for possibly today, like this 43:29 those answers are out here. They're here 43:31 today. They're in this room. They're 43:32 out, you know, at the parties. They're 43:35 out at lunch. You know, find these 43:37 creators that are being successful. Talk 43:39 to them. Don't be afraid to talk to 43:40 anybody. We're all here for the same 43:42 thing and trying to learn. So, you know, 43:44 take you're here. You spent the money. I 43:46 think that's more valuable than any talk 43:48 you're going to get here today is is 43:49 actually talking to other creators. 43:50 That's where I learn the most. So, 43:52 please go do that. I will see you guys 43:54 in a Fortnite, which is in two weeks. 43:56 And don't hate, create. Um, all right. 44:01 And we'll do if you got questions, 44:04 please go up to the right here to the 44:05 mic. 44:06 >> We're doing questions. Are we doing 44:07 questions or was that a wrap? 44:08 >> We're doing questions now. 44:11 >> All right. Mic. 44:13 >> Um, thank you gentlemen for putting this 44:15 on. Uh, for those that don't know me, my 44:16 name is Ian, uh, creative director at 44:18 Cleverlake. So, if you've got any UFN 44:20 tips you want to see pushed up, let me 44:21 know. I'll put them up in there. Um, so 44:23 this question is about kind of what we 44:25 saw at um, the state of Unreal that 44:28 we've known definitely in the education 44:30 side of it that I've kind of been 44:31 noodling my head around. So I'd love to 44:32 hear kind of your hot takes. And Kevin, 44:34 I feel like this one's probably more for 44:35 you. So what would you suggest that the 44:38 UEE devs learn from the UEFN devs to 44:41 stay relevant in UE6? 44:47 >> Jump in and just start playing with it. 44:50 Okay. 44:51 >> Get in the mud and grow with the the 44:54 thing because if you get in now, you'll 44:56 be able to help. You don't like 44:57 something, you can kind of try to give 44:59 them feedback and try to push it in 45:01 certain directions. We're part of the 45:02 development process 45:03 >> and yeah, and even if the goal isn't uh 45:06 to have a successful map that's going to 45:09 be your main source of income, but yeah, 45:10 just really like exercising a muscle 45:12 that you know is going to be valuable in 45:14 the future to the point that there's 45:15 going to be this convergence of uh you 45:17 know, Verse and UE6. I got a question. 45:20 What about the opposite? 45:21 >> That's actually my second question. I 45:23 was going to wait till the line died 45:24 down, but please Chad, thank you. 45:26 >> The opposite meaning if 45:27 >> like if you want to learn UE more, 45:29 >> what should UEFN devs do to prepare for 45:33 like UE6? 45:34 >> I feel like using using UEFN and just 45:37 trying the different tool like get into 45:39 Niagara, get into the material graph 45:41 because those stuff will be crossover, 45:43 >> right? All that crosses over. 45:44 >> Yeah. So, 45:46 >> cool. Thank you, gentlemen. Appreciate 45:47 you. 45:47 >> Thanks, Ian. Yep. 45:49 Hello. Hello. Thank you guys so much. 45:52 Um, I've got a question that I think you 45:54 guys are probably one of the very few 45:57 creators who can actually answer this. 46:00 Having multiple success hits throughout 46:02 your career in Fortnite? At which point 46:05 do you decide, we're going to let this 46:08 die, we're going to put less effort into 46:10 it, and we're redirecting resources to 46:12 our new idea, which is always, you know, 46:13 a new risk. So at which point do you 46:16 sort of like start analyzing where the 46:19 resources go? I think that's going to be 46:20 very interesting having multiple success 46:22 hits. 46:24 >> Age old question. Really tough one. 46:26 >> Yeah. I don't know. I feel like each pro 46:29 is each project's its own thing. 46:31 >> Yeah. 46:32 >> And some projects take a lot of effort 46:34 to keep going and some don't. like it 46:37 might just be like with an update day, 46:38 you get up and update it or um it really 46:42 just turns into like how much resources 46:44 are you putting into it and versus how 46:45 many how much results are you getting 46:47 out of it. And if something's very low 46:50 resource, then we'll keep updating it 46:52 once in a while. 46:53 >> Uh but if it's really high cost, then we 46:57 got to you got to cut it sometimes. Like 46:58 it just doesn't make sense. So, um it's 47:01 really just a project by project basis. 47:03 >> Yeah, I feel I feel the same. It's 47:04 probably a case by case basis or 47:06 creatorbycase basis because 47:09 when I I do think and this was this has 47:13 changed I believe we have seen some 47:14 games that have been updating going for 47:17 years that haven't seen the day light of 47:19 day and then like they're starting to 47:20 pop off now right and it kept getting 47:23 continual love and we know the algorithm 47:25 kind of looks at updates as well if you 47:27 I mean it's no secret look at the top 47:29 maps in our space go look at on 47:30 Fortnite.gg GG how many times they're 47:32 updating it's three times a week. So 47:34 it's it's hard to say like oh should I 47:36 keep updating this but it's just your 47:38 toler I think it's your risk tolerance 47:40 you know if you need to make if you're 47:42 trying to do this to make money is it 47:43 time to pivot. Um I think there's a lot 47:46 that goes into that. I 47:47 >> actually have a lot of respect when I 47:49 see a creator and I just see like a long 47:51 flat line with lot a lot of flags and 47:52 then it just pops and a few like case 47:54 studies like that where I'm like wow 47:55 they stuck with it and it worked. 47:57 >> Yeah. Pretty 47:57 >> cool. But there's definitely things 47:59 where you're like as you learn more, 48:01 we'll go back to a map and be like, "We 48:02 need to retool." And then we retry 48:04 something, right? Or like we've spent a 48:07 lot of resources and it didn't work and 48:08 then we're like, "Okay, well, we got to 48:09 just completely scrap that and like 48:11 redesign everything, which we're doing 48:13 right now on a map." So there's like 48:15 that that happens a lot and because 48:17 there's you can still believe in it and 48:18 just be like what you have to sit down 48:21 and really play your game again and be 48:23 like what's wrong with it? Why aren't 48:25 people playing it? why isn't it 48:26 retaining or whatever and and then try 48:29 again right like so uh yeah I don't know 48:33 that's that's a hard answer that's 48:34 >> no it's a great question 48:35 >> no no no great info 48:36 >> thank you there's no magic sauce sorry 48:38 >> yeah [laughter] 48:40 >> hey guys um Brandon Flath here you guys 48:43 might know me as Business I've been uh 48:44 hanging out and ch chatting with you all 48:46 for many years now in this space 48:49 >> uh we've been working on our own IP and 48:51 brand for years which we finally 48:53 released kind of a preview of that for 48:54 the Epic Mega jam this last year. Um, so 48:57 coming from a business background, I've 48:59 I've had businesses my entire life. I've 49:01 had a technology company prior to coming 49:03 to games, which is what I've always 49:05 wanted to do. Um, I've always had a 49:08 business mindset like you all. 49:10 From the business mindset, if you're 49:11 coming up to kind of the end of your 49:13 project and you've got a substantial 49:15 budget and a couple months before you 49:18 release, what would you do for 49:20 marketing, for advertising, and where 49:23 would you look to help to hire people? 49:26 Who do you trust in this space to bring 49:28 on to get you to that final polish? 49:31 Right? If you're 90% there and you're 49:33 ready to go, 49:34 >> what do you do next? We have a lot of 49:36 experience doing uh off-platform 49:39 marketing and I'll say like there's very 49:40 few if any um effective strategies that 49:43 I think are worth spending money on. Uh 49:45 I think like the algorithmic discovery 49:48 is uh you know double-edged sword. It's 49:50 like democratize the distribution uh 49:52 process for game developers because you 49:54 can't just be outspent by your 49:55 competitor. Um but uh but yeah, 49:58 overpaying for like influencers or 49:59 things like that I I don't think is 50:01 effective and a way to kind of set money 50:04 on fire. Um, and uh, yeah, you got to 50:07 just like kind of trust the algorithm to 50:08 do the thing. Throw some sponsored 50:10 throwing sponsored dollars at it is 50:12 probably the best thing out of them. I 50:13 haven't experimented with sponsored 50:15 recently and I know it's been kind of 50:16 going through a finicky time, but um, 50:19 yeah, I'd be very careful about spending 50:21 marketing money against a UFN 50:23 experience. 50:24 >> Okay, great. Thank you. 50:25 >> All right, look, we are at time. Um, so 50:28 I'm sorry we can't questions, but go 50:30 ahead. 50:30 >> If you guys have questions, you're 50:32 welcome to come up and talk. I don't 50:33 know. I don't want to offer it to 50:34 everyone, but you can talk to me. 50:36 >> You can talk to him. No, I'm sure. 50:37 >> Yeah. No, just [laughter] come talk to 50:38 us. Everyone who did stand up there 50:40 though to ask a question, please come up 50:41 here too. You will also will get some 50:43 swag. So, come see me. Everyone who won, 50:44 please come over here. Thank you all for 50:46 coming. Seriously, thank you. 50:47 >> Thank you, 50:49 >> brother. Thank you. 50:50 >> Thank you guys. 50:58 >> Chad, Kevin, and Tom, thank you for 51:00 running off the keynotes and doing this 51:02 one live. That kind of no prep real-time 51:04 breakdowns is exactly why people showed 51:06 up. We had a full audience. It was 51:08 incredible. Whether you run a studio, 51:11 build solo, or you just want to know 51:12 what UE6 and the discovery changes mean 51:15 for what you make next, this 51:17 conversation has a lane for you. Please 51:19 follow Kevin and the team of Future 51:21 Trash, known in UFN as FOD, Chad and Joo 51:24 Studios, also known better as Mustard 51:26 Plays, and Austin, Please, better known 51:29 as Tom Jen. All links to them are in the 51:31 description. And if you enjoyed this 51:33 episode, do me a favor. Follow the 51:35 podcast, subscribe on YouTube, hit the 51:37 like button, and if you're listening on 51:38 audio, leave a positive review on your 51:40 favorite podcast app. It generally helps 51:43 out more than you think. I'll see you in 51:44 a Fortnite, which is in 2 weeks. And 51:46 remember, don't hate,