0:00 This guy directs trailers for Amazon, 0:02 Disney, and Paramount. He pumped out 40 0:04 of them in a single year, and his 0:06 YouTube channel is still under 3,000 0:09 subscribers. None of this should work on 0:11 paper. Today, he breaks down how he 0:12 pulled it off. Plus, the exact playbook 0:14 for promoting your own UEFN games so 0:17 players actually click. Maybe my most 0:20 watched video is like 11,000 views, 0:22 something like that. It's not like huge. 0:24 And he was like, "Are you getting money 0:25 from YouTube? And if you're getting 0:26 money from YouTube, how much it is?" And 0:27 I was like, "I'm not monetized at all." 0:29 So, how does a guy with no monetization 0:32 end up in a room with some of the 0:33 biggest brands on earth? 0:35 >> When I think of big companies, I always 0:37 imagine like, oh my god, it's going to 0:38 be thousands of revisions. It's going to 0:40 be something crazy. It's going to be 0:42 people that's super hard and super 0:45 strict. Not at all. It's first of all, 0:47 just humans like all of us doing their 0:49 work like all of us. What he says about 0:51 how to make your own UEFN game stand out 0:54 on socials is going to change how you 0:56 spend the next 90 days. Let's get 0:58 started. 0:59 >> This is Creative Juice. 1:02 >> All right, I think we're live. Javi, how 1:04 are you doing, brother? 1:05 >> Hey, I'm doing doing amazing. Doing 1:07 great. 1:08 >> Heck yeah, dude. I am so happy to have 1:10 you, man. I've been following your 1:12 journey like from the start almost. 1:13 Well, since UF, man, I should say, not 1:15 the start. We'll we'll get into kind of 1:16 your background here in a second. But 1:18 man, you're totally crushing. You've 1:19 been working with the large some of the 1:20 largest brands in the world, making 1:22 insane trailers. You make some great 1:24 tutorials for UFN creators, great at 1:27 socials. You were a very unique guest 1:29 and I'm I think there's a lot of 1:30 creators, even brands, anyone listening 1:32 is going to learn something today. So, 1:34 everyone, you're in for a real treat, 1:36 man. How you doing, Jav? 1:37 >> Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. Yeah. You're much 1:38 too kind. You're much too kind. Thank 1:40 you. Thank you very much. And I also 1:41 hope that I hope that whatever I have to 1:43 say, it just it's super helpful for 1:45 everyone listening. So, so yeah, that's 1:47 the idea. Thank you for such an amazing 1:49 introduction. I'm humbled. 1:51 >> Of course. Of course, man. It's kind of 1:52 nice, too, because you know, you're a 1:54 YouTuber. You kind of get the g you kind 1:56 of get this game. So, this is going to 1:57 be a really fun episode. But, dude, 1:59 we're literally we're we're just going 2:00 to hit it. We're going to start hitting 2:02 the questions right now, man. 2:04 >> Let's go. Let's do it. 2:05 >> All right, man. I want to start with 2:06 this one because I think this one of the 2:08 cleanest takes you have uh put out 2:10 publicly. And so, basically, stop 2:12 treating UEFN like just a game editor. 2:15 Break it down for me. What is the actual 2:17 misconception and what does it cost 2:19 their creators who keep holding on to 2:21 it? Yeah, I think well if you check 2:23 Unreal Engine first because you know 2:25 like UFN is Unreal Engine but with some 2:27 restrictions but if you see Unreal 2:29 Engine even though it has powered most 2:31 of the AAA games we see out there we 2:34 also see Unreal Engine in many of like 2:36 you know like live experiences broadcast 2:38 being used in the the Mandalorian for 2:41 example just like super incredible 2:43 productions. So, Unreal Engine is so 2:45 robust in not only the game development 2:47 side of things, but also everything 2:49 related to cinematic production or audio 2:52 video visual production in general, 2:54 right? Yeah. And UEFn is no is no 2:57 different. It has as well as everything 2:59 in UFN some restrictions, but what it 3:02 allows you to do for your Fortnite 3:04 games, it's still a lot. So my aim with, 3:08 you know, like my tutorials and saying 3:10 like stop treating it just as a game 3:12 engine is to show people and to show 3:15 creators that there's just like this 3:18 amazing tool set that allows you to make 3:20 so much more with within your games. you 3:23 know so much more with what you can do 3:26 with cameras, what you can do with 3:27 characters, what can you do with sound, 3:30 what can you do with visual effects, 3:31 what can you do with post-process, with 3:33 lighting, with so many 3:36 >> robust tools that we have. So for me it 3:39 would be a shame not to even try or not 3:41 to even add a little of that spice that 3:44 UFN allows you to do, but you might not 3:47 know like how to apply it, how to do it. 3:49 That's one of the main reasons why I 3:51 started doing tutorials and to tell 3:53 people like you can do this, you know, 3:55 like um add a little bit of spice to 3:58 your games in in this way. 3:59 >> No, great answer and and we'll have some 4:01 you know examples of kind of some of the 4:03 tutorials or things you've done um you 4:05 know on screen but I mean just that you 4:08 have you know checking out your channel. 4:10 It's not just like, hey, this is how you 4:12 build a map, but it's showing a lot of 4:14 the tools that a lot of the creators 4:15 like either don't mess around with or 4:17 even know how to mess around with. Like 4:20 even me, like you had great tutorials on 4:22 like cinematics and adding logos and UI 4:26 things. Like there's there's a lot of, 4:28 you know, great things that you've shown 4:30 and then you've taken all of that those 4:32 learnings and you've you know, you 4:33 create these incredible trailers and 4:35 stuff. We're going to get into to that 4:36 more more on but I mean just that I 4:39 think you know you think on the outside 4:41 UFN is just making games right and and 4:44 you've showed that it's like way more 4:46 than that and I think a lot of people 4:49 forget about you know unreal engines 4:52 roots right and they're not just yeah 4:54 they started as making you know a game 4:56 development platform right but it's just 4:58 so much more now like you know sphere 5:00 uses it all these huge productions they 5:03 have I I've been to some of these uh um 5:05 really cool um studios that have these 5:08 huge massive screens where they you know 5:10 they actually make some of those movies 5:13 um and it's all powered by Epic Unreal 5:15 Engine there. There's just so much more. 5:17 But um you know putting that to a side 5:19 your path is very interesting and you 5:21 did not particularly start in UFN. You 5:24 started in Unreal Engine 4. So, you 5:26 know, you taught yourself sequencers, 5:28 how to cut trailers, you know, for Terra 5:31 Visions, VR game before UFN was even on 5:34 the radar, right? So, like, take me back 5:36 to that. What pulled a filmmaker into 5:38 learning a full game engine? And what 5:39 actually clicked once you, you know, 5:41 finally move over to UFN? 5:43 >> Yeah, I think I think it's something 5:45 funny. Also, there's something that not 5:47 many people know about me, but I did I 5:50 did Fortnite. Well, in Spanish, of 5:52 course. Also, I'm from Colombia. 5:54 something that I don't say live that 5:56 much, but I'm from Colombia. So, back in 5:58 the day, I don't know, like 2019, I did 6:01 like live content. Like, I was a 6:03 Fortnite streamer, so I loved Fortnite 6:06 while I was studying, you know, while I 6:08 was majoring in film and television. And 6:10 I've always loved film and TV, of 6:12 course, but the film and television 6:14 industry wasn't as exciting for me as it 6:17 was the video game industry. So when I 6:19 graduated, I was like, I know there's a 6:21 lot of film like knowledge and 6:24 sensitivity involved in video games, you 6:26 know, like if you see God of War, if you 6:28 see the Uncharted series, if you see 6:30 Beyond Two Souls, like take your pick, 6:32 right? Like this just amazing games with 6:34 a really rich cinematic like visual 6:37 storytelling and narrative. So I was 6:39 like, "Oh, what if I this knowledge that 6:41 I have in film and television is it 6:42 applied can I apply it to to video 6:45 games? How how do I do that?" I joined 6:46 Turvision at Turvision Games, which is 6:48 also like their creators. 6:50 >> Yeah. Had a hotel if anyone's listening. 6:52 Like they're they're goated. They've 6:54 made Oh my gosh. The cl um 6:56 >> Raptor Heist. They did kill Killer 6:57 Clowns from Outer Space. 6:58 >> Clowns from Outer Space like AAA game 7:01 stuff. Like they're they're goated. 7:02 Also, good people. He's been on the 7:03 podcast. Enrique, shout out. Anyway, 7:06 >> Enrique, amazing. Amazing. Also, he was 7:08 like my mentor in many of these things. 7:10 Like he was the one to say like this is 7:12 Unreal Engine. This is Captain Toon Head 7:13 versus the Punks from Outer Space. I was 7:15 interested in learning more about Unreal 7:17 Engine and how could we apply it to, you 7:19 know, marketing materials for for 7:21 Captain Tunad versus the Punks from 7:22 Outer Space, which was the game we were 7:24 developing when I just like just landed 7:27 on television uh at Turvision Games. 7:30 Yeah. And uh so it was like, okay, I 7:32 just did some courses. Whatever I 7:34 learned in the cinematic course, I 7:36 applied to Captain Toon Head gave me, 7:38 you know, like of course I had access to 7:39 a whole project inside of Unreal Engine 7:41 4.26. I don't remember the exact 7:43 version, but it was four. And um 7:46 >> and I just clicked. For me, it was like, 7:48 okay, I come from film and television. 7:49 You're telling me I have 7:52 >> this huge environment and you're telling 7:54 me that I can animate actors. You're 7:56 telling me I can place cameras, I can 7:59 tweak the cameras, I can do all of these 8:02 things like from my computer and then 8:04 render it out like perfectly. So for me 8:06 it was like that's exactly what I was 8:08 looking for, you know, like film and 8:10 television, video game industry and just 8:11 like pow. Then of course UFN came out 8:15 and I was already in love with Fortnite. 8:17 I've been playing Fortnite for years 8:19 now. So it was like so not only I have 8:21 film and television, not only I have 8:23 Unreal Engine knowledge, now we have a 8:26 UEF like UEFn real engine type of engine 8:29 specific to Fortnite. So it was like I 8:32 don't know. It's just like 8:32 >> it was like made for you. You know what 8:34 I mean? Almost right. Yeah. 8:35 >> Yeah. Exactly. Three of my loves just 8:37 like working together, becoming one and 8:40 it just clicked and I just loved it from 8:41 the very first time. And yeah, and 8:43 that's how I started just like doing 8:44 tutorials on the things that I knew and 8:46 just kind of like trying to share what I 8:48 could what I could. 8:49 >> Perfect segue because you make some of 8:51 the best trailers in the business. Um, 8:54 and I know you know a lot of creators 8:56 listening that is kind of a part of 8:58 this, right? There is a social media 9:00 part of this. You have to upload a 9:02 trailer for your game, an engine, you 9:05 know, some don't. You know, is there a 9:07 discovery score that looks at that? 9:09 Maybe, but like, you know, probably it 9:12 does help. A lot of top games have them. 9:14 So, if if I always say if a top team has 9:16 something, you should probably have it 9:17 as well. This is what I really want to 9:19 get into. I um it's just because you 9:21 perfected this craft. And as somebody 9:23 al, you know, also early on, like I've 9:25 always made my own trailers. I've done 9:28 all of that for my games. So, I think, 9:30 you know, I really want to want to get 9:32 into this. So, you know, somebody drops 9:34 a UEFN trailer tomorrow and it just 9:36 feels cheap, you know, like genuinely 9:38 amateur, which, you know, that's fine. 9:40 That's great. I love people trying and 9:41 and you, you know, do not take this any 9:43 any other way. All of our first trailers 9:45 sucked. So, like, right, but like what I 9:47 want to get into is like what are the 9:48 first three things you would fix before 9:51 they touch anything else? You know, like 9:53 what what's kind of more more important 9:54 overall, I guess, for when you're making 9:56 these trailers? I think I'm going to say 9:58 the first thing that I think it's the 9:59 most important one is focus 10:01 >> because when you do your map when you 10:03 make when you're making your map is your 10:05 baby. So for you it's just like it's a 10:07 game you know extremely well and it's a 10:10 game that for you it's perfect. It just 10:11 looks it's beautiful. It's wonderful in 10:13 every way. That's not necessarily how 10:15 the player or the viewer is going to see 10:18 it as. So what's your focus with with 10:20 this trailer? Is it going to be a 10:22 teaser? You see, for example, some of 10:24 the Jo maps, they launch with really 10:27 like super cool cinematics with no 10:29 gameplay. That's a teaser. You know, the 10:31 idea is that this looks so incred like 10:33 this this is so amazing that I need to 10:36 go into the actual Fortnite and check 10:38 what the game is about, but the 10:40 cinematic is not showing me gameplay. 10:41 It's just making me excited to go, you 10:44 know, go play it. 10:44 >> Yes. 10:45 >> So, first thing would be focus. I think 10:47 when you watch a trailer and and the 10:49 viewer like they don't understand what 10:51 they're watching, they don't understand 10:53 what the game is about even they have no 10:55 idea what they're looking at. It's when 10:57 when you made the trailer without like 11:00 lacking a focus. So I think that would 11:02 be the first thing that I think it's the 11:03 most important one. And then other stuff 11:05 that I think it's important just as a 11:08 way like if we go more into how the 11:10 trailer looks, I think one of the first 11:12 things that I will always fix is UI. 11:14 It's fairly common that you see people 11:16 just like recording the screens, just 11:18 like gameplay. Yeah. Also, I want to say 11:20 if you're doing a trailer for the first 11:22 time, all you need is good gameplay, 11:24 like good gameplay capture from the 11:25 gameplay perspective. Uh if you don't 11:27 want to, you don't need to touch replay, 11:29 that's another level of complexity that 11:31 I recommend, but you don't need to. And 11:33 if you want to go with, you know, like 11:34 custom cinematics, that's something that 11:36 I recommend as well, but you don't need 11:38 to. You can just go with gameplay. How 11:40 are you going to show this gameplay? I 11:41 would say first um avoid showing UI 11:44 because UI is important for the player 11:46 when they are playing. It's filled with 11:48 a lot of information that it's important 11:51 to them and to kind of under understand 11:52 their objectives. If the game has 11:54 currency type, you know, all of those 11:56 stuff for people watching, it's not 11:59 useful at all and it just like it makes 12:01 everything a little bit like dirty to 12:03 the eye because it's a lot of 12:05 information that for the viewer like on 12:07 social media, it's not giving them 12:09 something helpful. Yes. And specific to 12:12 UEFn, you most most of the time you 12:15 capture on a private version and you see 12:17 that when you play on a private version, 12:19 it says like play test on the top. Yeah. 12:22 >> Play test unmodderated. Uh something 12:24 like that. Just like a huge like yellow 12:28 right map code. 12:29 >> Yeah. That's one of the things that I 12:31 always like I don't want any of my 12:33 trailers to have that. They if it shows 12:35 just like so so bugged about it. It's 12:37 just like no no we can't show that. 12:39 >> Yeah. So, I would say record gameplay. 12:41 Make sure the game play is like a at a 12:44 decent bit rate because if if the 12:46 trailer looks glitchy, it makes the game 12:50 look 12:50 >> Yeah, that's great point. Great point. 12:52 Yeah. 12:53 >> So, just like make sure to not add any 12:56 UI. If you have some very important UI 12:59 elements to show like from your game 13:01 that you really want to show, that's 13:02 when focus comes in. Like this is 13:04 exactly what I want to show. I want to 13:06 show that we have a really cool 13:07 inventory system. of course then then 13:10 you can show it but but you show it with 13:12 an intention in mind. you don't show it 13:14 competing with all of these other UI 13:16 elements that that are not useful for 13:18 the for the viewer. And um 13:20 >> and that's what I would what I would say 13:22 that it's I think the most important 13:24 thing and you can do that with titles 13:26 and with good quality hopefully 60fps 13:30 just like gameplay recording and you 13:32 have like a great a good trailer to 13:34 begin with and then we can get more 13:36 complex but that would be my base just 13:38 to start. 13:38 >> No, that's that's all great. Great. you 13:41 know, I kind of what I say if one I I 13:43 get I get asked a lot of these questions 13:44 as well with my media as well. It's just 13:46 like, you know, the highest quality that 13:50 you can put out yourself, you know what 13:51 I mean? And and I don't does that mean 13:53 necessarily you need to go buy the best 13:55 newest equipment to do all of this 13:57 things, you know, if that's your job 13:58 maybe, right? Or if you're starting to 14:00 get into it, honestly, if you're in deep 14:02 in UFN, you probably already have a nice 14:04 rig. But like, you know, just that I 14:06 think it's just just starting. You don't 14:07 need the best microphone. you know, I 14:10 your phone does a lot can record really 14:12 well like audio at the very least. You 14:14 know, you can even do game capture on 14:16 your phone if that's what you have. But 14:18 yeah, I think that's that is important 14:19 because, you know, if if it is kind of 14:21 grainy or it does look jittery, I'm 14:24 going to think that's your actual game 14:26 and that's going to be my experience. 14:27 So, yeah, those are great points. So 14:30 let's I definitely u want to stay on 14:32 this topic kind of kind of you know 14:34 again I think this is really important 14:36 um you know for creators to hear and not 14:38 and not even just the trailer of your 14:40 game this could also mean content for 14:43 your game right short form content 14:44 things you know to promote your game so 14:46 you know let's like building from 14:48 scratch let's talk about so walk me 14:50 through your trailer formula you know 14:52 you're you know a cold viewer no context 14:54 scrolling fast 45 seconds to make them 14:56 care right you know beat by beat like 14:59 know what is the structure that you know 15:00 makes them stop. 15:01 >> Yeah. Um I think yeah let's go let's say 15:04 a 45se secondond trailer which I think 15:06 45 seconds to 1 minute I think it's 15:09 ideal going over 1 minute sometimes it 15:11 works depending on what you want to show 15:14 but let's say 45 seconds definitely the 15:16 start as with with every marketing 15:18 material and or you know social media 15:21 post needs to be a hook. It needs to be 15:24 the first 15 to 20 seconds need to 15:27 persuade you into watching the next 25, 15:30 right? 15:30 >> Yes. 15:31 >> So, that's about it. In in our case, if 15:33 you see most of our cinematic trailers, 15:35 of course, the hook is usually a custom 15:38 cinematic. This doesn't need to be the 15:39 case. It just needs to what I think it's 15:42 like the first 15 seconds of your 15:43 trailer need to show the most engaging 15:47 thing about your game. It needs to show 15:49 something that you think the viewer will 15:52 find interesting and that the viewer 15:54 will find entertaining and just like or 15:57 at least make them have some questions 15:59 that hopefully will get answered in the 16:01 following, you know, 25 seconds of the 16:03 video, right? 16:04 >> Little cliffhanger. Yeah, 16:06 >> exactly. Little little click cliffhanger 16:08 or I'm like, what am I what am I looking 16:10 at? Is this, you know, what's this? 16:13 >> Next, on the case of Fortnite, it needs 16:14 to be gameplay. Definitely if a viewer 16:17 is a Fortnite player, they they will 16:18 need to know what what this game is 16:21 about. And again, it's not necessarily 16:23 like that. I 16:24 >> I go back to the Jo example, 16:27 >> you know, which is like cinematics made 16:30 by Furls, which huge shout out to 16:32 >> Fur by the way. Yeah. He 16:34 >> he's just insane. He's just 16:36 >> I mean, he's been doing that before Jo. 16:37 He's been making crazy Fortnite 16:39 trailers. 16:39 >> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. He's been doing 16:41 just like amazing cinematics. 16:42 >> Like not even about games. Yeah. 16:44 >> Which is insane. So, huge shout out 16:46 >> and and that's it. If it's a teaser, it 16:48 is a teaser. If you're doing a trailer 16:50 for your game and you want to add 16:51 gameplay, it definitely needs to be 16:54 concise. It needs to be clear. That's 16:56 when most of the time maybe titles will 16:58 be like something good to have because 17:00 titles, if I show gameplay as it is, it 17:03 might not be clear, but maybe titles can 17:05 say like reach the top, defeat your 17:07 friends or fight with your friends, you 17:09 know, is this game co-op, is this game 17:11 PvP? That's when text comes in. So 17:14 >> I think then you need to focus for the 17:16 next 20 to 25 seconds on like of course 17:19 showing a clear idea of what your game 17:21 is about with gameplay. Here if you 17:23 again adding a level of complexity 17:26 mixing gameplay perspective just like 17:27 regular I'm playing Fortnite recording 17:29 my screen with some good interesting 17:31 replay shots you know some replay 17:34 angles. Yeah that also just like 17:36 improves the the feeling of polish on 17:38 your on your trailer and and it it 17:41 really helps. So if you have the time to 17:44 do that, it will be insane. And last 17:46 last would be like 3 seconds to 5 17:48 seconds max. It would be the end card. 17:51 And the end card, it needs to, you know, 17:52 have like a good visual for your game. 17:55 Have the the title of your game, of 17:56 course. What's the call to action, you 17:58 know? 17:59 >> Yes. 18:00 >> Usually, exactly. A CTA. So it's usually 18:02 play now or jump now. You can get 18:04 creative depending on your game, you 18:05 know, race now or whatever. 18:07 >> Yeah. have the island code or any way 18:10 you want them to reach you, you know, 18:12 like you can have island code and just 18:14 like search for and something and also 18:17 something really important that it's in, 18:19 you know, like the marketing terms of 18:21 terms of like like the user agreement, 18:23 terms of service. I don't know how to 18:24 say the to for Fortnite marketing and it 18:27 said if you're a creator, you need to 18:28 put the disclaimer that this is not 18:30 sponsored, forced, or administered by 18:32 Epic Games. 18:33 >> That's a smart. I'm glad you mentioned 18:34 that. Yeah, because it is 18:37 >> they even provide graphics too for that, 18:39 I'm pretty sure on their site somewhere. 18:41 Yes. 18:41 >> Yeah. Any any kind of marketing 18:43 material, it needs to have that like 18:45 that disclaimer. And uh it previously 18:47 was a PNG like that says created in 18:49 Fortnite. 18:50 >> Yeah. 18:51 >> They changed it. I think on April 26 18:54 they changed it to 18:56 >> developed. Yeah. Developed in Fortnite. 18:58 >> Okay. Okay. I had I haven't made 19:00 anything. I mean I will be soon but 19:02 [laughter] that's good info. Nice. 19:04 >> Yeah. Yeah. No, no. I I realized because 19:06 I was thinking like, okay, so I was 19:08 checking the the page to get them, you 19:11 know, like the PGs from their page and 19:13 everything just said developed in 19:15 Fortnite and I was like, oh, okay. So, 19:17 now it's developed in Fortnite now. 19:18 >> Cool. They're doing a huge push trying 19:20 to change the vernacular of creator 19:22 creative, you know, to de developers, 19:24 right? So, no, it makes sense. 19:26 >> Yeah. 19:26 >> Yeah. Yeah. So, uh so yeah, that's very 19:28 important in the in the end card. And um 19:31 and that's pretty that's pretty much it. 19:33 That's pretty much it. Also, regarding 19:35 if you're thinking of discover, for 19:37 example, I think in discover because you 19:39 cannot like upload a tra a trailer 19:41 that's going to be shown when people 19:43 open up your game. I think there maybe 19:45 cinematics are not as important because 19:48 you actually have the player like inside 19:50 Fortnite. Yeah. So, for example, if I 19:52 wanted to have the same trailer in this 19:54 cover, I would maybe have maybe a couple 19:56 of seconds of something that I find 19:58 really exciting in my intro or cinematic 20:00 or the hook, but I would jump straight 20:02 to gameplay because that's what players 20:04 inside of Fortnite are there to like to 20:06 do, right? To to play. 20:07 >> Yeah, that's a great ad, too. I think 20:09 cuz you know what what it does is it's 20:11 just like a a sanity check, right? Cuz 20:13 creator or players, you know, don't want 20:16 to be tricked, right? Or may have used 20:18 to be getting tricked by certain maps. 20:20 So, you know, it's just another filter. 20:22 We're like, "Oh, let me just see what 20:23 this, you know, if the title this kind 20:24 of thumb kind of matches up with this 20:26 gameplay, right?" So, that's a that's 20:28 actually a great thing you said. Yeah. 20:29 >> So, yeah, I think it's it's important. 20:31 And again, it's focused, you know, where 20:33 where is it going to live 20:35 >> and what purpose is going is it going 20:36 to, you know, achieve? 20:38 >> Yeah. Piggybacking on that, that's great 20:40 advice. Like, how fast do you cut like 20:43 clips? You know what I mean? you know, 20:44 the the attention span. You're always, 20:46 you know, the the quick cuts nowadays 20:48 are are are important. Like, you know, 20:50 would do you have any recommendations or 20:52 you just kind of go off feel, right? 20:54 Like, and I'm saying this because you 20:56 don't we don't want to watch 10 seconds 20:58 of the same clip, right? So, and again, 21:01 this is something we've all probably do 21:03 when we first start making trailers, but 21:05 I just thought it was important to bring 21:06 up, you know? 21:07 >> Yeah, absolutely. I think at this point 21:09 when I cut, I do it by just like 21:12 feeling. 21:12 >> Yeah. I think something that helps in 21:15 our case also something I cut some of 21:17 our trailers but we have like a great 21:19 team behind right like some of the 21:20 trailers I don't even cut myself 21:23 >> some I still do and you see a different 21:26 sense like depending on who edits the 21:28 trailer you can see a different rhythm 21:30 sensitivity on the transitions on the 21:33 cuts so I think a lot of it comes to the 21:36 way you feel it kind of like what your 21:38 gut is telling you if maybe this this is 21:40 going on for too long something that 21:42 helps and I think it it helps in every 21:45 case at least on the gameplay portion of 21:47 any trailer and if your trailer is just 21:49 like gameplay based mainly then more 21:51 importantly so but I think the replay 21:54 tool inside of Fortnite is incredibly 21:56 also yeah it is robust you can do a lot 22:00 of things you could even do just like 22:02 some acting you know setting up some 22:04 scenes acting them out inside of 22:07 Fortnite using some emotes and stuff and 22:09 you can just like act out a cinematic 22:11 there for your trailer and it will look 22:13 insane. So, something that really helps 22:16 on cutting is if we if we know we have 22:18 gameplay for a very interesting portion 22:21 in our game going into replay and 22:23 capturing different angles from that 22:25 same segment. So, instead of you having 22:28 10 seconds of just like gameplay 22:30 recording from your screen, you have 22:33 gameplay recording, you can jump to 22:34 another angle, you can jump to the enemy 22:36 on the other side, then you can go back 22:38 to the gameplay recording. So it's like 22:40 could be the same clip. It's the same 22:43 action and the cutting becomes like you 22:45 showing the viewer different things. You 22:47 focusing on very specific things that 22:50 you want the viewer to focus on. So 22:52 that's what I would recommend because if 22:55 not I would say just go with your with 22:57 your gut and 22:59 >> you know try to separate yourself from 23:01 the game being your baby or show it to 23:03 other people. That's also really good. 23:05 Show it to people that hopefully they 23:06 that they are not like maybe so good 23:09 friends of yours or family. 23:10 >> Yeah. Give you good feedback like are 23:12 not afraid, you know, and that that's on 23:13 you too. Like how do you take feedback, 23:15 right? Like you know, I always surround 23:17 myself with people that are not afraid 23:19 to speak their minds and that's what you 23:21 want. Even if it's hard to hear and 23:23 maybe they're wrong, they can be wrong, 23:25 too. You know what I mean? But it's 23:26 generally like, okay, oh, I see how 23:27 you're thinking about that. This is why 23:28 I thought about that. You know, you 23:31 know, what are your thoughts? But yeah, 23:32 that's that's a great, you know, even 23:34 with your games, right? Any any of that, 23:36 you need people like that in your camp, 23:37 you know, not like your mom or dad like, 23:39 "Oh, it's great. That looks amazing. 23:42 Great job, honey." 23:43 >> Yeah. A 9minute trailer. That's 23:46 beautiful, honey. You know, 23:47 >> I love it. Yeah. 23:48 >> Perfectly said, I think. And and again, 23:50 this this is what I want on this 23:52 episode. I think, you know, this is 23:53 something I see a lot of people struggle 23:56 with or ask or need help with is just, 23:58 you know, how how to make content, how 23:59 to make trailers on their games and 24:00 things. So, you know, this is awesome. 24:03 So, I kind of want to move over kind of 24:05 to your client list cuz you may you 24:07 probably have probably the most brand, 24:10 you know, worked with the most brands on 24:11 trailers probably in this whole 24:13 ecosystem. And so, dude, let's let's 24:14 let's dive into this, man. You like have 24:17 you're you did 40 trailers in a single 24:19 year. That's insane. Okay. Project Hail 24:22 Mary for Amazon, MGM, Final Destination 24:25 Bloodlines, Jack in the Box, Disney, 24:27 Michael Blue, you know, I want you to 24:29 pick one. Walk me through the version of 24:31 that project no one, you know, outside 24:32 of Sulfuric Media, your company, you 24:34 know, ever got gets to hear. 24:36 >> Yeah, I think it's also crazy for me. 24:38 It's crazy for me. And and here comes 24:40 the part in which I say like none of 24:42 this has ever been a solo effort. 24:46 >> Okay. 24:47 >> Like not at all. Being able to work with 24:49 all of these brands takes like a group 24:52 of just amazing individuals. 24:54 >> Yeah. And um and I think honestly if I 24:58 could take something or if I could show 25:00 something from behind the scenes of what 25:02 it's like to work with with these 25:04 companies is I realized how important it 25:06 is for you to provide not only a great 25:09 product because that's like the least if 25:11 you're getting paid to do something the 25:12 least you can do is deliver, right? 25:15 Yeah. But but most of most of the brands 25:17 what they really need is to not think 25:20 about it that much. You know, they need 25:22 to actually trust that you not only will 25:24 deliver, but that you're going to be up 25:28 to the task and 25:30 >> not bothering them with things that they 25:33 don't need to be bothered with in a way. 25:35 >> Yeah. You know what I mean? 25:36 >> Do the job. They're paid for. They're 25:37 busy, right? They they trusting you. 25:40 >> Um to to make good quality content for 25:44 their 25:44 >> quality content. Yeah. So, so for me it 25:47 it was a great learning because like 25:48 when I think of big companies I always 25:51 imagine like oh my god it's going to be 25:52 thousands of revisions. It's going to be 25:54 something crazy. It's going to be people 25:56 that's super hard and super strict and 25:59 super and no not at all. It's first of 26:02 all just humans like all of us doing 26:04 their work like all of us, right? And 26:06 and they don't want to be either 26:08 bothering you or being strict or being 26:10 whatever because they also have plenty 26:12 of other stuff to do. So they are 26:14 relying on you to do it for them. Their 26:16 job would be to guide you onto the 26:19 brand's vision or you know like whatever 26:21 they they want this piece to to be 26:24 >> and and that's been like super super 26:26 good super great and I mentioned having 26:28 like a a good network a good team to 26:30 work with and uh and just like being 26:32 surrounded with good people because 26:33 that's actually what has gotten us here. 26:36 We have 26:38 >> we have very talented people inside of 26:40 Chardis which is like where Sophic media 26:42 lives. Yeah, 26:43 >> within like the Chartis network and the 26:45 Chartis ecosystem and everything and 26:47 everyone just like does their job to 26:50 make all of this actual just like brand 26:52 deals possible. And what I need to do is 26:54 just like, you know, like work on my 26:56 side, on my specialty, on my 26:58 deliverables within like a bunch of 27:01 other stuff. And um and also outside of 27:04 of the network, for example, for for 27:05 Disney, we we did the trailer for Percy 27:08 Jackson Siege of Monsters, which is 27:10 actually just like an insane game made 27:12 by the guys at Gauntlet. 27:14 >> Yep. They've been on the podcast. It 27:15 came on actually right after that 27:17 launch. Yeah, we'll have a trailer up 27:19 showing it, man. But yeah, good. That's 27:21 a great trailer. 27:22 >> It was a great trailer. Also, um the 27:24 cinematic on on those trailers was made 27:26 by Darra Powell, which is another like 27:28 amazing 3D animator that we are like 27:31 just like fortunate to work with, aka 27:33 Linkxy. Also a huge 27:34 >> shout out to him. 27:36 >> So, it's just like I think I'm I'm going 27:38 to go outside a little bit of this, like 27:40 maybe a little bit outside of the 27:41 question, 27:42 >> but for example, for for Siege of 27:44 Monsters, you see like we got reached 27:46 out by by the people at Gauntlet, 27:48 awesome individuals, awesome creators, 27:50 awesome developers, and just 27:51 >> they're a vibe, dude. They're the best 27:52 >> overall great people. 27:54 >> Y 27:54 >> and they relied on us to the trailer. 27:57 Like if they wanted to, they could have 27:59 done it because they definitely have the 28:01 artists and the knowledge too. But the 28:03 end of the the end of the day, what they 28:05 are doing is just like relying on you or 28:09 just like trusting you with something 28:11 just so they don't need to worry about 28:13 it, you know, just so they know that 28:15 they can trust you to worry about it and 28:17 to deliver what it's eventually. And 28:19 again going back to the team for example 28:21 for because 40 trailers in a year is 28:23 crazy when we did the math. 28:25 >> Insane. 28:26 >> Some of those we didn't even publish or 28:28 anything. We just did it and we we 28:30 produced them and gave it to the client. 28:33 >> Yeah. 28:33 >> And it's also thanks to a great team 28:36 that we have we have behind. We we work 28:38 with many just like amazing gameplay 28:41 capture artists such as we work with 28:43 Finn and expert also. Shout out to them 28:46 >> because they they are 28:48 >> they've been around for a while. 28:49 >> They've been around for a while. They 28:50 they teach me they teach me everything, 28:52 you know? Like I'm like, "What's what's 28:54 the skin name?" If you were to make like 28:56 a Fortnite trivia, those guys would be 28:58 like just insane. 28:59 >> Oh, for sure. No, they're OG's. We all 29:00 go way back. 29:01 >> Yeah. 29:02 >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, and it's just like it's 29:04 been amazing to not only be able to 29:05 achieve all of these things, but to 29:07 actually have a team so 29:11 like robust and specialized in what they 29:13 do that allows us to actually deliver 29:16 and work with with these brands and the 29:19 level of quality that they are expecting 29:21 from us. 29:22 >> Um, you know, and so it's just like 29:24 that. And also shout out to Stephen. 29:26 He's my mentor in Unreal Engine. Like I 29:29 thought I knew some stuff. He's 29:30 >> crazy. He's he's nasty. 29:31 >> He's amazing. He's amazing and he was 29:33 the first one I think the first one to 29:35 come to the team after me me doing all 29:37 of the trailers by myself. 29:39 >> He was one of the first ones to like 29:40 okay no now now I'm going to help you 29:42 and ever since he joined it just 29:44 improved the quality of our cinematics 29:47 like by a lot. So it's also good and and 29:49 shout out shout out to him as well. 29:51 >> Amazing. Look, it it takes a village, 29:53 right? And so like it's hard especially 29:55 when you're I mean to do 40 in a year, 29:57 you can't do that by yourself. You know, 29:59 you have to have a strong team and then 30:01 you know working with brands just to 30:02 kind of you know you know repeat what 30:05 you said but like they have these brand 30:06 guidelines you have to work with. There 30:08 is revisions but you know and and 30:11 usually they give you a deck so you can 30:13 you know know all of these things and 30:14 plus once you start working with brands 30:16 more you kind of understand that anyway. 30:18 Mostly you just want to make sure um 30:20 you're representing their IP 30:22 authentically. That isn't easy that you 30:24 know that that does take people who 30:25 understand that. Um and it it it really 30:29 does you know those they are busy people 30:32 and they want the best product but a lot 30:33 of those people too maybe not maybe 30:36 don't understand the whole editing side 30:37 of things, right? They're not as 30:39 ingrained or involved just like anyone 30:40 don't understand how you make your games 30:42 and create it, right? So yes, they 30:45 really do rely on people and what you 30:47 know what these brands look at is like, 30:49 okay, what have you guys done? You guys 30:50 work for these brands? Okay, what have 30:51 you produced? Oh wow. You know what I 30:53 mean? So like you know, usually as long 30:55 when you get these deals, especially 30:56 your first ones, you want to make sure 30:58 you're putting your everything you got 31:00 into it and you deliver um because it's 31:03 just going to regenerate more and bring 31:05 people back. Um you know, look, you guys 31:07 are doing that. Obviously, you guys are 31:09 making insane trailers. you have a 31:10 credible team and people that I've 31:12 talked to within chartis you know they 31:14 all say have that kind of s same similar 31:16 you know sentiment around the like you 31:19 know hey you're hired to do this go do 31:20 your job we're all helping each other 31:21 we're all making great stuff and it 31:23 sounds like you're enable you know to do 31:25 that you don't have you know that 31:26 somebody hanging over your head this 31:28 this or that you know and that's that's 31:29 what a business should be you should not 31:31 have you know people that you have to 31:32 watch you know what I mean so 31:34 >> yeah exactly 31:36 >> you guys are crushing it moving on to 31:37 the next question and again you have you 31:40 you have done so many insane tutorials 31:42 around like we have metahuman animator 31:44 so miximo the whole wave of AI cinematic 31:47 tools vertical aspect ratio cinematics 31:49 you know I want you to be straight with 31:51 all of us you know what is actually 31:53 worth a creator's time right now you 31:55 know and what's maybe just creator bait 31:57 >> creator bait that's a good that's that's 32:00 honestly a good question I think I'm 32:02 going to speak for my specific case for 32:04 example 32:05 >> yeah yeah 32:06 >> I my background is not in anim in 32:09 animation I know film and television 32:11 which makes me like I am aware of the 32:14 certain just like you know like 32:15 cinematic language you know shots 32:18 composition stuff like that but I don't 32:20 do like custom animation so when I 32:22 started doing cinematics relied oh 100% 32:26 on on miximo for example or on animation 32:30 packs that I could find on the fab 32:32 store. I I think going back to focus, I 32:34 I think I've said that word maybe like a 32:37 hundred times so far, 32:39 >> but I would say like I think creator 32:42 bait for me it would be something that 32:44 you want to learn just because it's 32:45 cool, 32:46 >> but not understanding why you need it in 32:48 the first place or why this looks maybe 32:51 you want to see like oh we worked with 32:53 Metahuman Animator because it because it 32:55 sounds cool, right? 32:56 >> Yeah. but maybe you don't have like a 32:59 good use case for it in your cinematic 33:01 or in your game. So, I think that's what 33:03 I think would be good to have first. For 33:06 me, Miximo or all of the, you know, 33:10 animation packs that you can find on the 33:11 Fab store, for me, those are just like 33:13 incredible, amazing. They save me a 33:15 bunch of time. They make my work look 33:18 like polished good. Um, and it really 33:21 just like improves what I want to make 33:23 and it it makes my job easier and it 33:25 makes the product look better. For AI, 33:27 for example, we use we use a lot of just 33:30 like this video to to motion capture to 33:33 animation AIs just like like quick 33:35 magic, 33:36 >> there's cartwheel, for example, there's 33:39 move AI as well. And for me, those are 33:41 extremely useful because again, for 33:43 example, in my case, I'm not a custom 33:45 animator. So what if I want a like a 33:47 very specific animation? 33:49 Now I can record myself, put it through 33:51 these AI systems and now I have an 33:54 animation that I can use with a 33:55 character device or you know like any 33:58 character that I have. So I think that 34:00 would be that would be the the line that 34:02 I would cross between creator bait and 34:04 tools that matter. If you if you know 34:07 what you want to achieve first and you 34:09 can find a tool that helps you achieve 34:11 that, that's the tool that matters. 34:13 >> Yeah. 34:14 >> You know, if if you do it just because 34:16 it's cool, then I would think it's just 34:17 creator bait. Yeah. Yeah. 34:19 >> Yeah. No, I think I think that's the 34:21 most important part of all this. I I 34:23 don't know if anything's necessarily 34:25 bait, but it's knowing your tools you 34:27 have probably, right? It's like, okay, 34:30 maybe maybe you are interested in doing 34:31 some of this, you know, making 34:33 metahuman, whatever it is. Dabble on it, 34:35 try it out, see how it is. At the very 34:38 least, you know, that's kind of how I 34:40 like to run things. Like I I it's very 34:42 hard for me to like even find editors 34:44 for a podcast, which I do have that now. 34:46 Like for instance, cuz I like to do 34:47 everything myself, but like in the 34:49 process of doing it myself now, I feel 34:51 like when I do talk to my editors or I 34:54 talk to somebody I'm working with, it's 34:56 a little easier and I can like either 34:58 give more direction or just, you know, 35:00 not not totally be like, "All right, go 35:01 do this." You know, like I don't know. 35:03 It just it does help in some ways. And I 35:05 just think about that in in game 35:07 development or trailers, anything like 35:10 if you're in it's good to like kind of 35:11 have a you know a full view of 35:14 everything what we can do and maybe how 35:16 to do it in some ways but maybe 35:18 necessarily you don't need to invest all 35:19 your time. You know don't invest months 35:21 on learning a skill that you probably 35:24 won't use much but you know you know 35:26 basically what you just said in a 35:27 nutshell just kind of summarizing but no 35:29 that wasn't an easy question. So thanks 35:32 for taking a stab at it 35:33 >> also because at least for me the best 35:35 and practically only way to learn is to 35:38 do 35:40 >> so if you wanted to learn verse for 35:42 example which I haven't learned yet but 35:44 if I wanted to learn verse I could watch 35:46 100 hours of tutorials 35:48 >> yes 35:49 >> and that wouldn't matter what it matters 35:50 is me going inside of UFN and you know 35:53 like writing my first verse device and 35:56 you know writing the first line of code 35:58 and everything so it would be the same 35:59 with everything else it's just like yeah 36:01 just like thinking of something you want 36:03 to actually do and apply it that's the 36:05 that's when you really learn the the 36:07 tool. 36:07 >> Yes, for sure. For sure. There's Yeah, I 36:10 start I'll watch some tutorials but like 36:12 you know until I start doing it you know 36:15 and consistently and if you do it once 36:17 you're going to forget about it in 36:18 months you know it's like yeah but it's 36:20 cool. It's like you could do this. There 36:21 was a way I remember oh I did it on this 36:23 map or this okay then you can go like 36:25 you know and then you start learning it 36:27 that way. No this is all great. So, you 36:29 know, on to the next question. I think 36:31 this one this question is one of the 36:32 most important questions um you know, in 36:34 this episode. It's it's really cool. I 36:36 want I I love talking about kind of 36:38 career paths and like how you actually 36:39 built built your career, how you get 36:41 started. You know, you have publicly 36:43 said like your YouTube tutorial library 36:44 is what unlocked your freelance career. 36:46 You know, we've we've had Excelated 36:48 Dreams on, you know, same same kind of 36:50 story, right? So, like for creators who 36:52 think tutorials are a distraction from 36:54 their real work, you know, when you're 36:56 making content and maybe you don't want 36:57 to make tutorials, you know, what is the 36:59 version of that flywheel that they 37:00 should actually be running? You know, 37:02 maybe take us back like what what did 37:04 creating tutorials open up for you and 37:06 you know, should creators be doing that? 37:08 Yeah, I think in my case, tutorials are 37:10 just part of something bigger that it's 37:13 just like what what most people would 37:14 call personal brand or personal, you 37:17 know, like branding, which I think it's 37:19 important because I've heard a lot of 37:21 people talking about or or a lot of 37:22 people out there that know that they are 37:24 talented, you know. I think there's a 37:26 lot of people that know they are 37:28 talented that are aware of their many 37:30 just like specific skills and knowledge 37:32 that they have. The thing is that if if 37:35 you don't show it, if you don't talk 37:37 about it, if you are not your own 37:39 spokesperson, nobody's going to know 37:41 that thing that for you is just like 37:43 evident, right? So when I started doing 37:45 tutorials, it was a mixture of two 37:47 things. One, I wanted to have some kind 37:49 of presence out there, some kind of like 37:51 I'm working in this ecosystem. 37:54 And what better way to do than that? And 37:57 of course you know that as well. What 37:59 better way to do it that to just like 38:02 give value to people, give out valuable 38:06 things, things that are actually, you 38:08 know, like that that help some of the 38:11 people out there. Um in my case what I 38:14 actually did is um when I started doing 38:17 tutorials I wasn't or or my intention 38:19 wasn't to be like I want to make this to 38:22 become the authority or become just like 38:24 the expert in cinematics. It literally 38:26 what I always did was I wanted to learn 38:28 something. I realized that in order to 38:31 learn this I had to go watch three 38:33 different tutorials and maybe read 38:34 documentation. And then I was like okay 38:36 there there's got to be a better way. So 38:38 I just started doing the tutorials that 38:40 I wish I could have found when I started 38:43 to look on, you know, like how to do 38:45 that thing in the first place, right? 38:47 >> Y 38:47 >> So that's just what was in my mind. It's 38:50 just like I want to help out people. If 38:52 people feel that I'm helping them out, 38:54 they're going to, you know, think of me 38:56 or, you know, like know that I am out 38:58 there doing stuff for the community. And 39:01 it eventually it really worked. It 39:03 really worked. Now, the thing that 39:05 surprised me the most was actually 39:07 people reaching out to me as some kind 39:09 of like authority or expert. And it was 39:12 funny to me because being in the in the 39:14 ecosystem, I saw a lot of other people 39:17 >> that did like just like stuff that was 39:20 way like way better than what I could 39:22 even do today, you know? Like just like 39:25 stuff that just blew my mind. But they 39:27 weren't sharing how to do that. it just 39:30 looked cool. But if somebody was like, 39:32 "Oh, I want to do that thing that you're 39:34 doing," they just weren't showing how to 39:36 do that. And I was, you know, so I think 39:39 that that that was just like a a huge 39:41 difference. It's just like if I'm 39:43 showing you how to do it and you need to 39:45 look for someone who does that, it just 39:47 made sense to reach out to me because I 39:49 had already proved to creators and to 39:52 people out there that I'm capable of 39:54 doing that stuff. 39:55 >> Yeah. Right. 39:55 >> Yeah. It's your resume. It's your 39:57 resume. Really? 39:58 >> It's my resume. Yeah. public. 40:00 >> Yeah. 40:00 >> Yeah. Exactly. So what I would say 40:02 creators is one personal branding is 40:05 really important that that I will say 40:06 and we should all have some kind of 40:08 personal branding out there but more 40:10 than that I think it's and even more in 40:12 this ecosystem that that it might feel 40:14 huge but it is still pretty small in 40:17 certain ways. There's so much like 40:20 useful information that you could be 40:23 just like sharing with other creators 40:25 that it will just like in the in the 40:27 long term or medium term help all of us 40:30 out. 40:30 >> Oh yeah. 40:31 >> You know, and um I don't know if it's 40:33 how do you call it when when you put 40:35 just like when you don't want to share 40:36 something. 40:37 >> Yeah. Just basically people want to kind 40:39 of keep the information from themselves 40:40 or nervous about putting it out because 40:42 people are going to copy them in a way 40:44 or whatever. They're going to give away 40:45 their secret sauce. They're going to 40:47 they're going to give away their secret 40:48 sauce. And yeah, actually something that 40:50 I really want to do with Sophic Media 40:51 and everything is just pull the curtains 40:54 >> completely just like you saw this 40:57 trailer. Let me show you exactly how we 41:00 did it. Just like step by step. If you 41:02 wanted to do a trailer for your game or 41:04 if you want to do trailers for other 41:06 stuff, this is exactly how we do it. 41:08 Maybe you can find a better way and we 41:10 can learn from each other. Yeah, 41:11 >> that that's my way of of thinking um of 41:14 thinking of things and and that's also 41:16 my tutorials. If if you follow my 41:18 tutorials, you will be 80% there to what 41:21 we do in Sophia and the 20% left is just 41:24 tutorials I'm working on right now. 41:26 >> It will be soon 100% there. So, it's 41:28 like um that's what I would say. It's 41:31 just like one for personal branding. 41:32 Two, give up to the community. You might 41:34 feel that the things that you know are 41:36 obvious to you. 41:37 >> It's just like but this is obvious. Why 41:39 would I do a tutorial on this? Yeah, 41:40 >> but there's a lot of creators that might 41:43 not know something that for you might be 41:45 the most obvious thing. So, if you can 41:48 share something and you think it's of 41:50 value to the creators, 41:52 >> yeah, 41:53 >> do it. Do it. Just please do it. 41:56 >> I 100% agree because, you know, I there 41:59 there's a lot of that going on where and 42:01 again I've I have tutorials with 42:03 millions of views on my tutorials. A big 42:05 part of my success was because of me 42:07 sharing how to build these games. And 42:10 did I have these thoughts or maybe I did 42:12 make something really cool that people 42:13 aren't making just yet? And it doesn't 42:15 necessarily mean I wasn't going to show 42:16 it later, but maybe I'll just get my map 42:18 out there going and then I'll show how I 42:20 built this game, but what while I'm 42:22 doing that, I'm saying or you can just 42:24 go play my game that I built like this. 42:26 Right? So, it's just another driver to 42:28 your game for a majority. And I don't 42:30 know, another thing I want to say on 42:32 this is a lot of people cuz I did this 42:34 and I think I've said this on this 42:35 podcast before, but you know, I was a a 42:37 top programmer 1.0, but I'd make really 42:39 advanced things and make cool stuff, but 42:42 in the end that was like for 1% of our 42:45 audience and those the views on those 42:47 would be nice, but nothing spectac. 42:51 But like then I'd make how to make a 1v 42:52 one build reset, which most people 42:54 listening could can do this tutorial 42:56 very very fast. And that got like 42:58 hundreds of thousands of views on T like 43:00 so it doesn't necessarily have to be 43:02 something like you know and I had that 43:04 too like I got to show I'm this I'm this 43:06 guy I'm the top you know you know 43:08 mechanic in this space I have to show 43:10 the crazy things but it's just my ego 43:13 talking but it it doesn't need to be 43:14 that it can be something easy something 43:17 short and it a lot of it you want to 43:19 think about in this way is like you made 43:20 a cool mechanic in your game show 43:22 creators how to do that and then show 43:24 off your game or while you're you know 43:26 before you publish push it kind of get 43:27 people hyped up. You know that whole 43:29 devlog thing like you know all these 43:30 things help and at the very least you 43:32 know a lot of these verse tutorial guys 43:35 that they maybe not make games or 43:36 they've made games but like they're a 43:38 top you know they're top of mind of a 43:40 lot of studios or a lot of work because 43:42 they're publishing these things. So you 43:44 know maybe your games aren't doing doing 43:46 well you need money or whatever then you 43:49 have this whole other side of 43:50 freelancing where you can get hired to 43:53 keep the dream going. So there's, you 43:55 know, it's not there's so many other 43:57 things that publishing tutorials will 43:59 open up. And I know it's not easy, 44:01 right? It's like everyone hates their 44:03 voice when they will first start hearing 44:04 their voice. 44:05 >> Yeah, trailers are going to suck or your 44:07 videos are going to suck when you first 44:09 start. Mine. You can go back to my 44:10 YouTube channel here on my first videos. 44:12 You're going to see like it's it's 44:13 embarrassing, but whatever. it it's part 44:15 of the process and and I think the more 44:17 you do it let you know all that stuff 44:19 starts going away and and definitely you 44:21 know you start gaining a really good 44:23 following um because people are coming 44:26 because you're providing a service to 44:27 people. 44:28 >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And 44:31 it's and it's really important also I 44:33 want to say that I I understand that a 44:35 lot of us are busy like me included. The 44:37 last time I posted a tutorial was 9 44:39 months ago maybe. So, it's not like I 44:42 know it's hard to take the time to, you 44:45 know, sit in front of a camera and uh, 44:48 you know, record a tutorial or anything, 44:50 >> but any way that you can, it's it's 44:52 super useful. Something that for me has 44:54 been amazing is maybe creators that 44:56 don't have a tutorial out or anything 44:58 out, but you actually reach out to them 45:00 like, "Oh, I see you you did this." And 45:02 they reach back like, "Oh, yeah, I did 45:04 it like this, like this." They send 45:06 screenshots or everything. That's also 45:08 like extremely useful. And so far, the 45:11 creators that I've reached out in the 45:13 ecosystem have been just like 45:15 incredibly, you know, like friendly and 45:17 helpful. 45:18 >> Yeah. 45:19 >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the word the word 45:20 I was looking for was gatekeeping. 45:22 >> Gatekeeping. Gatekeeping. Yeah. Yeah. 45:24 Yeah. Yeah. That's that's it. Yes. 45:26 >> Yeah. Yeah. Because I sometimes think 45:27 some creators are like that. But so far, 45:30 my experience has been quite the 45:32 opposite. So, I'm just glad about that. 45:34 >> That's that's in all industries. That's 45:36 that's there. And that's fine. And I 45:38 mean, look, mo most people, to be honest 45:40 with you, you think you have some secret 45:41 sauce and maybe you do it after for for 45:43 that little time, but someone's come, 45:45 you know, once it's public, once it's 45:46 live, once people see it, like for 45:48 instance, once when I saw someone do 45:49 something and I was so ingrained in 45:51 these tools, just like I mean, there's 45:53 people obviously way far advanced in UF 45:56 than than I am or probably will ever be, 45:58 but they all I needed to do was see it. 46:00 I needed to know it's possible and then 46:02 maybe I won't do exactly how you did it, 46:03 but I know it's possible so I can figure 46:05 it out, right? And that that's so look 46:07 do your thing you know get it out there 46:09 but if you have time I think there's a 46:11 lot more benefits of you know publicly 46:13 put putting it out but um you know let's 46:15 move on to the next question. Here's the 46:17 part that should not work on paper. All 46:19 right your YouTube channel's close to 46:21 3,000 subscribers. You're directing 46:23 trailers for Ryan Gosley with Amazon. 46:26 You have development on game award 46:27 nomination UFN games. Your studio puts 46:30 out 40 trailers a year maybe more. like 46:33 you know how does that math actually 46:34 work and what does it say about the you 46:37 have to go viral first advice every 46:39 cradle creator you know in this 46:41 ecosystem gets shoved you know at them I 46:44 think I was actually having having a 46:45 conversation with a friend know a while 46:47 back and and I said like oh I need to go 46:49 back to making tutorials and he was 46:51 telling me like but your videos get like 46:53 maybe my most watched video is like 46:56 11,000 views something like that it's 46:58 not like huge and he was like are you 47:00 getting money from YouTube and if you're 47:01 getting money from YouTube how how much 47:03 it is and I was like I'm not monetized 47:04 at all. I'm far from being monetized 47:06 even. 47:07 >> Yeah. 47:07 >> But that's 47:07 >> I don't make much money either and I'm 47:09 monetized. So yeah. Yeah. 47:10 >> So it's like yeah it's crazy and that's 47:13 when you see like where the through like 47:15 value on that content actually resides. 47:19 So yes in in my case it was being known 47:22 it was being known amongst the you know 47:24 like the UEFN ecosystem. And that's what 47:27 I think people don't actually realize. 47:30 If you take a look at the numbers, you 47:32 first need to understand the niche we 47:34 are inside of, you know, like 47:37 >> yeah, 47:37 >> if I do a tutorial on how to, I don't 47:41 know, make facial animations with a 47:43 character device, which is coming soon 47:45 actually. 47:45 >> But if I do that, if I do that tutorial, 47:48 who's going to actually watch it? You 47:49 know, like the people interested in that 47:51 video is it's already like a really 47:54 small niche within the UEFN like creator 47:57 community. So, so it it is really niche. 48:00 11,000 views might not sound like a lot, 48:03 >> but how many people are we talking about 48:06 in general? Yeah. Like, let's say 11,000 48:08 views, let's say. Yeah. Like, 48:11 >> you know, like 10% of those people did 48:14 something with that tutorial. It's just 48:16 like a tutorial that helped out 100 maps 48:19 inside of Fortnite, for example, just as 48:21 a quick example. And that's a lot. That 48:23 is like like big. So, if I wanted to 48:26 create content not only on on this, you 48:28 know, like niche or industry, that's 48:30 what I would say. It's just like it's or 48:33 at least the way that I see it. It's so 48:34 important for you to do something that's 48:37 specialized at least at the beginning 48:39 just because you want to reach out the 48:42 people that actually understands your 48:44 content and uh and people that you might 48:46 or in my case for example, people that I 48:48 might actually want to eventually work 48:50 with, right? So with my content, I was 48:53 very specific on who I was targeting and 48:55 in which you know like niche I was 48:57 targeting to. And it it definitely 49:00 definitely paid out in the end because 49:02 that's what I'm doing for a living right 49:04 now. And you know most of my closest 49:06 friends also work within this same 49:08 community and ecosystem. So 49:11 2,800 49:13 subscribers for example might not sound 49:15 like a lot. It might not sound like a 49:17 ninja number. 49:18 >> That's a lot man. But in this specific 49:20 industry, yeah, for me it's weird. Like, 49:22 for example, when I go to events or or 49:25 when I, you know, talk with other 49:26 creators, some of them are talking to me 49:28 and then I mention something about 49:30 YouTube and tutorials and they're like, 49:31 "You're the guy." You know, like they 49:33 they realize they're like, "Oh, no. I 49:35 watched a tutorial of you." I even had a 49:37 friend, I'm not going to say the name, 49:38 but he was like, 49:39 >> "I love like this guy's tutorials, but 49:42 he's just so slow and I just need to 49:44 jump through the tutorial to get to the 49:45 part that I that I need." And I'm like, 49:48 "Dude, I'm the guy from those tutorials, 49:51 you know, like I'm the slow guy." Yeah. 49:54 Uh, which which was really funny. So, 49:56 it's like, yeah, it's it might not seem 49:58 like a lot. 49:59 >> I don't think you're slow. I don't think 50:00 you're slow, by the way. I I watch Yeah. 50:03 >> Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. And it 50:04 was like, yeah, I just thought it was 50:07 people that are slow. There are some 50:08 slow people. So, you're No, you get to 50:10 the point. Yeah. That's crazy. 50:13 >> Yeah. And And I was like, Right. So, so 50:16 I started to realize that within the 50:18 ecosystem, a lot of people actually knew 50:21 who I was, which for me it was crazy. 50:23 >> Yeah, 50:24 >> it was like insane. So, so yeah, that's 50:27 my way of finding out that numbers are 50:29 not what you should be focusing much 50:32 about. 50:32 >> I would focus first on on niche and 50:35 focus 50:35 >> and focus. There's a few things to 50:37 unpack here and and tutorials are 50:39 evergreen content. So, they're I mean I 50:41 have tutorials that are seven years old 50:42 still getting views. So like they're 50:44 cons, you know, they they they grow with 50:47 time and when you're making tutorials 50:49 and if you're not having consistent pace 50:52 um you know like YouTube favors consist 50:55 like a lot all these platforms favor 50:57 really consistent content. So if you 50:58 were posting all the time, you know, who 51:01 knows what that what that would be. 51:02 That's also hard to do with just 51:04 straight up tutorial content. Let's 51:05 let's be fair. Like I I can't do that 51:07 either. Like I I get it. But you don't 51:09 need to. You don't need to. And the 51:11 reason I'm saying this is because 51:12 subscribers, followers, all that stuff 51:15 used to really matter in in a few years 51:18 ago. And now most people, especially on 51:21 short form content, it's really just 51:23 about views. It's really just about 51:25 views and how many views you can pull on 51:26 your content. And that's really what you 51:28 should be focusing on. I I think growing 51:30 your audience is great. Do that as well. 51:32 Don't don't leave it hanging. But 51:34 mainly, it's just putting that content 51:36 out and getting, you know, eyes on it. 51:38 That's that's the main goal. You know, 51:40 subscribers come. It's great obviously, 51:42 but yeah, I think it's very impressive 51:45 what you've done, what you've built. And 51:46 and I think the overarching thing of 51:49 this whole episode literally is just 51:50 like it doesn't necessarily, you know, 51:52 even if you're not getting the million 51:54 subscri whatever, all of that, posting 51:57 this content still can lead to something 51:59 more more than stuff that you don't even 52:01 realize at this point. You know what I 52:03 mean? So no, I think you know if 52:06 anyone's taking away is just that, you 52:08 know, it's just put yourself out there 52:09 and and you never know what it's going 52:11 to lead to. 52:11 >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. 52:13 >> Yeah. 52:13 >> Absolutely. 52:14 >> So this is kind of the last big one here 52:16 and it's about your your company Soul 52:18 Suric Sulfuric itself. So why start 52:22 Suluric Media inside the Chartist and 52:24 Ready Up family rather than going 52:25 independent? you know, how how did the 52:29 team, you know, you've mentioned Steve, 52:30 Scott, Brennan, Tommy, you know, how did 52:32 all that actually come together? 52:33 >> Yeah, I think the why is definitely 52:35 because working together, like what's 52:38 the saying? If you want to go fast, go 52:40 by yourself. If you want to go far, go 52:42 as a team. Something like that. I might 52:44 have butchered it. I don't know. 52:46 >> That's good. It's good. I butcher him 52:47 all the time on this podcast. You're 52:48 good. 52:49 >> Yeah. But I think that but I think 52:51 that's that's about it. I actually don't 52:53 think I started Sulfuric Media inside of 52:55 Chartis. I think the only way Sulphuric 52:57 media is what it is, it's because it 53:00 started within Chartis. 53:02 >> Nice. 53:02 >> Right. So the way Suluric media works is 53:06 that we are kind of even though it's 53:08 independent and everyone can reach out 53:10 for a trailer outside inside from the 53:12 Charters Network. 53:13 >> Links in the description. 53:14 >> The way that Yeah, links in the 53:16 description. Um, but the way that we 53:18 work together is that we are kind of 53:20 like you can see it as the trailer 53:22 division inside of Chartis. M so one of 53:24 the many things that charters can 53:26 produce between like amongst all of the 53:28 brand partnerships and everything that 53:30 they can include inside of anything that 53:32 they they they want to offer a client or 53:34 offer brand. One of the things that they 53:36 can offer is trailers. The trailers is 53:38 one of the things between a bunch of 53:41 other stuff, right? Yeah. So when we 53:43 started getting all of these brand 53:45 deals, we realized that a bunch of these 53:47 brands actually wanted trailers. So when 53:49 I joined Chartis actually I was running 53:51 the social media side of Chartis and I 53:53 stopped because they require trailers. 53:56 So I started doing the trailers which is 53:58 what I was 54:00 >> you know like the reason I met Tommy and 54:02 Brandon in the first place was because 54:04 they reached out because they they 54:06 wanted trailer and and we worked 54:08 together on that and that's how we got 54:09 to meet. So I started doing the trailers 54:11 when they required trailers and then we 54:14 started seeing that a bunch of brands 54:15 required you know like trailers and they 54:17 wanted trailers and and Brendan was like 54:20 you know like let's stop for a second 54:22 because this might be like its own 54:24 business. Yeah 54:25 >> you know. 54:26 >> Yeah for sure. 54:27 >> I think Suluric Media has gone to the 54:30 place where it is right now thanks to 54:32 all of the work that the whole chart 54:35 seem like does in general with different 54:38 brands. There's not a brand deal like 54:41 like a huge brand deal that Chartis does 54:43 that doesn't involve sulfuric media and 54:46 or cinematic production or anything else 54:48 you know like that. So it wasn't even a 54:50 choice. I think it was it it was just 54:52 the way it shaped out to be and the way 54:55 it was meant to be honestly 54:58 >> and yeah and I think if if it has worked 55:00 as well as it has it's just because of 55:02 the just like the amazing team that that 55:04 that we have. And shout out to Tommy 55:06 who's like he's the actually like main 55:09 producer for Suluric Media. 55:11 >> Okay. 55:12 >> I would like to say I am but that guy 55:14 does like an insane amount of work like 55:18 >> Yeah. 55:18 >> Chartis Suluric everything. So shout out 55:21 shout out to Tommy. 55:22 >> Yeah. Yeah. No shout out to that gang. I 55:24 had Brendan on who was the CEO of 55:25 Chartis here a few episodes ago. You 55:27 guys can go check that out out as well. 55:28 But they're they're the most brand deals 55:32 um in inside of Fortnite. So they have a 55:34 really cool company and it just makes 55:36 sense, right? You need trailers. They 55:38 big companies, they want nice trailers. 55:40 And so that that that just totally made 55:42 sense. You guys are crushing in that 55:43 that division. Let's let's how can we 55:45 work together? And again, that go again 55:48 all this stuff you didn't even realize 55:49 when you were probably making tutorials 55:51 or doing all these things at the start. 55:53 I think it's because you show up every 55:55 day, you make high quality content, do 55:56 your best, um, and you were public about 55:59 it and all that will come, you know, all 56:01 this stuff comes to light. So, you know, 56:03 I think anyone listening right now that 56:05 everyone I know, again, I I keep 56:07 repeating this in this podcast, but it's 56:08 just cuz I know it's a huge question. I 56:10 consistently get asked and it's just 56:12 people are nervous or scared about care 56:14 what people think, all of these things. 56:16 And you got to put yourself out there at 56:18 the end of the day and it's going to 56:19 lead to awesome stuff, especially if 56:21 you're, you know, doing your best each 56:23 time. Look, Obby, I love this episode, 56:25 man. Thank you so much for coming on. 56:27 You got you're crushing it. I I love 56:29 what you're doing. I love what your 56:30 team's doing. love what Charted Chartis 56:32 is doing. I'm going to be following you 56:34 guys of course as always and you're 56:36 you're a great guy. I've met you in 56:38 person. You know what I mean? You're 56:39 this is how he he's super nice, 56:41 approachable. If he's going to Unreal 56:42 Fest, everyone go, if you see this fell, 56:45 go talk to him. He's he's super 56:46 knowledgeable and awesome. And I'm going 56:48 to before we get to your shout out, I 56:50 want to do one quick shout out. I am 56:52 doing a live Creative Juice episode 56:54 podcast at Unreal Fest. So, if you're 56:56 going, make sure you're there. I'm going 56:58 to be giving out some of these 56:59 sweatshirts actually during that live 57:01 episode. I have special edition stickers 57:03 as well that I'm not going to be showing 57:04 anybody. So, you you'll have to come to 57:05 that and every everyone who comes is 57:07 going to get one of these stickers. 57:08 Sorry, I had to do a quick plug for 57:09 that. U Javi man, you know, what are you 57:12 working on right now? If you can share 57:13 anything and then how can people find 57:15 you? 57:16 >> Yeah, I think well I'm working right now 57:18 on you know going back to tutorials for 57:20 people that want to find me just by my 57:23 my my YouTube channel which is I'm Jav. 57:25 You can find it in if you search I'm 57:27 hobby Fortnite. That's that's that's me. 57:29 And other than that, I think we're also 57:31 going to work with content related to 57:33 Sulfuric media side of things. I really 57:35 want to, as I said before on this talk, 57:38 I um um I want to showcase a little bit 57:40 more of the behind the scenes, you know, 57:42 like what we do in the in the trailers 57:44 because I think we can all learn a lot 57:46 from that. And maybe by showing it, uh, 57:48 I can also learn from other creators, 57:50 um, outside of what we do, you know, and 57:53 maybe improve our our craft as well, 57:56 which 57:57 >> which is what we want to do every day. 57:59 >> Yeah. And also thank like thank you for 58:02 for having me. For me, it's just an it's 58:04 just a huge honor. You are just like the 58:08 authority in Fortnite creative. You 58:11 know, UEFn came after, but you were the 58:13 OG, you know, like since the very 58:15 beginning. So, it's an honor to be here. 58:18 It It was an exciting and really like 58:21 great chat. So, yeah. Thank you for 58:23 having me, man. Truly appreciate it. 58:24 >> Of course, dude. I'm not good with 58:26 compliments. Thank you, man. I just love 58:28 this space, man. I love this space. I 58:30 love being able to talk to people like 58:31 you. And again, let's get this content 58:33 out here. Just the same like we're 58:35 saying it, but I'm do we're doing it, 58:36 too. Get this content out there. People 58:38 can learn. 58:39 >> Yeah. Also, one last thing that I 58:41 realized when you were talking, I think 58:42 like doing content is just like putting 58:44 yourself out there. In my case, for 58:46 example, I did content. I eventually 58:48 met, you know, like Brendan, Tommy, 58:50 Mike, and those guys literally just like 58:53 changed my life. And I like to think 58:55 that in a way I changed theirs as well. 58:57 So, you might only need like to get to a 59:00 bunch of different people. You you just 59:02 might need to find just like that person 59:04 or that team that really does it for 59:07 you. And you will never know what the 59:10 future holds if you don't just like 59:12 start somewhere and post the f the first 59:14 video, the first X Twitter post, you 59:17 know. 59:17 >> Yes. 59:17 >> So yeah, do it. Just do it, 59:20 >> dude. The better no better way to end 59:22 this episode. His links are all in the 59:24 description. Go subscribe to his 59:26 channel. You're missing out if you're 59:27 not. Go follow him. They're crushing it. 59:29 Javi, that's an episode, man. Thanks for 59:31 coming on. 59:32 >> Yeah. Oh, thank you. Thank you for 59:33 having me, 59:33 >> brother. Catch you next time. Javi, 59:35 thank you so much for coming on and 59:37 being so generous with all of us. This 59:39 is the kind of conversation that does 59:41 not happen often in this ecosystem. If 59:43 you are a creator trying to promote your 59:44 own UFN game, step up your trailers, 59:47 build a real brand around your craft, or 59:49 eventually land on a project with a 59:51 brand you actually care about. You just 59:54 heard the playbook. Go subscribe on his 59:56 YouTube channel, I'm Javi, and follow 59:58 what the team is putting out at Suluric 1:00:01 Media. All links are in the description. 1:00:03 And if you enjoyed this episode, please 1:00:04 do me a huge favor. Follow the podcast, 1:00:07 subscribe on YouTube, hit the like 1:00:09 button, and if you are listening on 1:00:10 audio, leave a positive review on your 1:00:13 favorite podcast app. It generally helps 1:00:15 out more than you think. I will see you 1:00:17 in a Fortnite, which is in 2 weeks. And 1:00:19 remember, don't hate,