0:00 This week's guest got a cease and assist 0:02 hand delivered to his front door in 0:04 Germany over a UEFN map he never even 0:07 published. [music] He is also one of the 0:09 most watched UEFN tutorial creators 0:11 alive and one of my oldest friends in 0:13 the scene. The takes you are about to 0:15 hear most creators are not saying out 0:18 loud. 0:18 >> I was really stunned like there's no way 0:20 they actually like sent me a season for 0:22 a tweet. I guess that's how it goes. 0:23 Activision is that scared of a of a 0:25 tweet these these days. and he is just 0:27 as direct about where Epic should be 0:29 focusing the rest of its time. 0:31 >> I know a lot of people will hate me for 0:32 that, but I think they should lock 0:33 Creative 1.0 at some point. They should 0:35 stop developing it and just use it as a 0:37 tool for beginners to come into if 0:38 they're scared of the editor. Let's say 0:40 like that. 0:40 >> 8 years inside the scene and the takes 0:43 only get sharper from here. We get into 0:45 so much and I promise [music] this is 0:47 going to be a really informative episode 0:49 and a lot of fun. Let's go. 0:52 >> This is Creative Juice. 0:54 >> All right, dude. I think we're alive. My 0:56 gosh, this one's a treat for anyone 0:58 listening. This is one of probably my 1:01 oldest friends in Fortnite Creative, 1:04 which is crazy. Maybe eight years ago, 1:06 this was my competition 1:09 >> for the longest time. This guy was 1:11 making some of the most It still is, but 1:13 most crack tutorials in Fortnite UFN. 1:16 And dude, I just got to introduce Richie 1:18 Tunes. We finally got you, dude. It's I 1:20 know we've been playing this for a 1:21 while, man. Welcome to the podcast. 1:23 >> Thank you. Thank you for having me, man. 1:25 I'm excited. Ah, we have some spicy 1:26 stuff. 1:27 >> Yes. No, we're definitely going to get 1:28 into it, man. We're going to talk about 1:29 the OG days. We're going to talk about 1:31 the new days and 1:32 >> going to be, you know, 1:34 >> content, all of it. We're going to get 1:35 into all of it. This is a really special 1:37 episode. Anyone listening, you're 1:39 definitely going to learn something 1:40 today. There's things that I can't wait 1:41 to talk about because, you know, from 1:44 the, you know, consumer side, I like I 1:47 learned used to learn from some of your 1:48 tutorials early on. Dude, you used to 1:50 make some of the really advanced 1:52 tutorials in 1.0. So, like 1:53 >> I want to get into some good tutorial 1:55 days. That was some some good stuff, 1:57 >> dude. Incredible. And even back then, 1:59 dude, you uh cuz English isn't your 2:01 first language, right? And so, your 2:03 first your first tutorials, they were 2:05 English, right? 2:06 >> Yeah. I think I never did German, 2:08 actually. It is always uh always has 2:10 been English. 2:11 >> But I think your your English has 2:13 improved insane since probably eight 2:16 years ago. 2:17 >> I I hope so. To be fair, it's a funny 2:19 story. I had actually English like um 2:21 like teaching like because my English in 2:23 school was not great. So my parents 2:25 actually sent me to learn English a lot 2:27 better. That didn't help at all. But 2:28 [laughter] I I think for I think from 2:30 video games you learn quite a bit. 2:32 Having them in English like for 2:34 everybody is doing doing this do 2:36 everything in English and you kind of 2:37 start learning it a little bit better. 2:39 It's not 2:39 >> Yeah. We've had some of the guys you 2:41 know guys for some French French 2:43 creators and stuff like the percent of 2:45 those guys same thing. They kind of they 2:47 say the same thing. And they kind of had 2:48 to like tutorials are coming into the 2:50 space. They had to learn English. 2:52 >> Yeah. 2:53 >> But no, I dude I just remember I think 2:55 the first tutorial I remember of yours 2:57 and it was like a billboard. It was like 2:59 a billboard. You did something where you 3:01 swapped like like enable disable some 3:03 billboards. I'll have to find it and 3:05 I'll put it up on the screen. Dude, this 3:06 is way in the 3:07 >> probably probably cringe away seeing the 3:09 the old videos. That is so embarrassing. 3:12 Well, and dude, 3:15 my old tutorials are so embar All my old 3:17 videos are so embarrassing and cringe, 3:19 but I think that's a good thing if 3:21 someone's 3:22 >> Yeah, that's a good thing. If you can 3:22 look back and I see, okay, I improved. 3:24 That's Yeah. 3:25 >> Exactly. Exactly. So, don't All your 3:27 first content's going to suck and that's 3:29 okay. 3:29 >> Yeah, it it will be it will be terrible 3:31 to watch. But 3:32 >> yeah, just some point you get there. 3:35 >> But all right, brother. Yeah, let's just 3:36 hop into the questions again, man. I'm 3:38 super excited. So, all right, 3:40 >> we have to start here because this is 3:42 probably one of the wildest creator 3:43 stories I've heard in a long time. You 3:45 tweeted a single preview of an 3:47 unreleased terminal style UFN map and 3:50 somehow it ended up in a real cease and 3:53 desist from Activision in your inbox, 3:55 bro. So, like, walk me through the 3:57 moment you open that email and what 3:58 every UFM uh UFN builder watching right 4:01 now should actually take away from that. 4:04 Uh, actually, the funny thing is, uh, I 4:06 didn't see the email. They they sent it 4:08 actually to my to my old business mail 4:10 which um I guess during that time was 4:12 still on my YouTube. Um but I I didn't 4:16 look into it at all anymore. Yeah. They 4:17 sent me one and and apparently in the 4:19 email I I checked it afterwards. It says 4:21 like you have 14 days to reply to this 4:23 and yada yada yada. I found out by a guy 4:26 standing on my doorstep actually. 4:28 >> They they brought a guide 4:29 >> Yes. 4:30 >> to Germany to your doorstep. 4:32 >> He handed me over like a letter and he 4:34 was like explaining me like so. Yeah. 4:36 here, Activision, please don't do this. 4:39 I was I was like like a little bit 4:41 stunlocked really because I was not 4:43 expecting this at all because it was 4:44 just a tweet, right? 4:45 >> Yeah. 4:45 >> I was like, "Yeah, here. Please don't do 4:47 this." And I I kind of started like 4:49 laughing a little bit and then he also 4:50 started laughing and I was like, "What? 4:52 Like what is going on?" Like like 4:54 there's no way. And yeah, here. And then 4:56 he sent me I wrote and I said, "Yeah, 4:58 here the tweet. We love your content, 5:00 but please don't do this." Like what? 5:03 That's was I was like so like I was 5:06 really stunned like on the moment. I was 5:08 like there's no way they actually like 5:10 sent me a season for a tweet. I was like 5:12 okay well I guess that's how it goes. 5:13 Activision is that scared of a of a 5:15 tweet these these days like I was like 5:17 what? 5:17 >> Yeah that was holy. That was 5:19 >> and so you just took it down and and you 5:21 didn't make the game and everything was 5:22 cool like you didn't that was kind of 5:24 it. 5:24 >> The funny thing was the the terminal map 5:26 which I created a year prior to to the 5:29 the season and the tweet I made fully in 5:32 Creative 1.0 I don't know because UFN 5:33 was not out there yet. So I used all the 5:35 primitive shapes and like made the whole 5:37 thing and apparently they thought it was 5:38 so good that it looked like UFN was made 5:40 and uh you know they were scared that I 5:42 actually uh would publish it. So yeah, 5:45 >> that's a compliment. 5:46 >> Publish it. Yeah, I guess I guess I was 5:48 like I mean cool that you like this map, 5:51 but why send me a season for this? 5:53 Wasn't I never I think I never even 5:55 tweeted 5:56 >> that I want to publish this specific 5:58 map. Yeah, I just used it for the for 6:00 the trick shot obviously because it was 6:01 a tweet, right? You have to, you know, 6:03 get a little bit interaction on that. 6:05 So, I never was intended to release it, 6:07 but they please don't do this and uh 6:09 yeah, okay. Like, 6:10 >> so Newuke Town, which is always remade 6:12 in every Call of Duty, but how you know 6:14 how many new there's probably a new town 6:16 map right now in that has some plays, 6:18 right? So, you know, it especially when 6:21 around first person was coming out, 6:22 right? So, everyone was kind of jumping 6:24 on the on that bandwagon and I don't 6:26 know, man. The funny thing about New 6:27 Town is, and I I I think I hit this 6:29 somewhere, that the map can actually not 6:31 be copyrighted. So, for New Town, you 6:33 can actually recreate it. Don't Don't 6:35 quote me on that. Don't don't do it. 6:36 Don't do it, guys. 6:37 >> Not legal advice. 6:38 >> No legal advice. But apparently the map 6:40 because it is like a real life location 6:42 and the the like it's just like directly 6:46 like they took it directly from the from 6:48 the you know, nuke test. Yeah. 6:50 >> They cannot really copyright it. You can 6:51 technically recreate it and that's why 6:53 they probably didn't like they still 6:55 exist to this day. 6:56 >> Interesting. That means 6:57 >> that's what I hear it from from like 6:58 other people. 6:59 >> Other people. Yeah. I mean, we've seen 7:01 it so much in our ecosystem, especially 7:03 like with the Squid Games is a big one, 7:05 >> you know, and it's also free press for 7:09 >> Yeah. I mean Yeah. I mean, even for for 7:11 Call of Duty, right? So, they could like 7:13 >> I don't know. They I don't know if that 7:14 is too much of a deal for them to 7:16 actually let let people create stuff 7:17 like this. And I feel like it's not not 7:19 a like a negative thing for them. Like 7:21 nobody is going to play a UGC map over 7:23 the real Call of Duty. It's more like a 7:25 free promo for them, but you know, maybe 7:27 they see different. I don't know. 7:28 >> Yeah, I it's kind of it's just sad 7:30 because they it would be that would be 7:32 such a cool IP collab in one. 7:35 >> Oh, that would be who knows. 7:38 >> Custom weapons are coming hopefully this 7:40 year still and then you know Call of 7:42 Duty X Fortnite. I mean, imagine if they 7:44 released first person with an Activision 7:47 IP collab. You know what I mean? 7:49 >> With the weapons, like that would be 7:51 >> Yes, that would have been insane. Um I 7:54 we may actually have some like search 7:56 and destroy. 7:58 >> Oh, no. Don't get me So, 8:00 >> we're going to get started in that later 8:02 on. I have some questions about 8:03 ballistics and stuff. And I know I know 8:05 if anyone knows about the ballistics 8:07 history and and Richie tunes, you're 8:09 going to you're going to want to listen 8:11 to these the latest this episode. I'll 8:14 get them fired up here in a minute. 8:16 Okay. So, no, that that was just an 8:18 interesting story and I think it's a a 8:20 good one to to bring up and especially 8:22 with creators listening and and and a 8:24 lot of that stuff going on 8:25 >> and you actually had real experience 8:26 [laughter] 8:27 and someone came to your door. I didn't 8:28 know someone came to your door. 8:30 >> Actually, the guys came to my doorstep 8:32 and I was like here and then he 8:34 explained it to me and then Yeah. Be 8:35 careful what you create. It can always 8:37 somebody can stand on your doorstep. 8:39 >> That's right. 8:40 >> Even if you don't publish. No, that's a 8:42 good good lesson. All right, this is 8:43 another one that kills me, man. So, 8:45 people forget, maybe people forget or 8:47 not, like you have been in this from 8:49 basically day one as well as myself. So, 8:51 I want to kind of rewind back a little 8:53 bit. So, before UFN existed, before the 8:55 galleries got good, you know, when we 8:58 were all hacking maps, we were all 9:00 hacking hacking maps together when, you 9:02 know, with whatever Epic gave us 9:04 basically. You know, what's that memory 9:05 from those creative 1.0 days that still 9:08 makes you laugh? And honestly, did 9:10 either of us think this whole thing is 9:12 going to turn into what [clears throat] 9:12 it is now? 9:13 >> Honestly, the the funniest thing is I 9:15 think like always the triggers like the 9:17 the mechanics like the when it started I 9:20 think we didn't even had triggers. No, 9:22 was it? 9:22 >> No, we didn't have triggers when it 9:23 first started. That came a year or two. 9:25 >> There was no triggers, no mechanics that 9:27 you can really do. Everything had to be 9:28 done by like using the physics of the 9:31 the vehicles or like it was so 9:34 sequencing shopping carts. Yeah, 9:36 >> it was so unique. Then even when we got 9:38 the triggers that we only had like eight 9:40 or five or whatever it was 9:41 >> eight 9:41 >> channels it started with eight. Yep. 9:42 >> That was 9:44 like the the the uniqueness. I don't 9:46 think you can ever recreate that with 9:47 anything ever like 9:48 >> Yeah. 9:49 >> I think that's such a unique thing. 9:50 That's like kind of early Minecraft but 9:52 even more creative because Minecraft 9:54 still was advanced for for for the time 9:56 it was there but creative launched in 9:58 like a so like barebones state and it's 10:01 like not comparable to what we have like 10:03 at all. 10:04 >> Yes. No. And I think m Minecraft I I 10:07 think I I don't know how many comments 10:08 you got on your videos but you know I 10:10 would always like this is Minecraft 10:12 redstone like 10:13 >> like 10:14 >> all the time. Can you remember what was 10:16 you know I think we talked about like 10:17 your first tutorial. What was some of 10:19 your like first content on YouTube 10:21 around Fortnite creative? 10:22 >> So the funny thing is I actually started 10:24 by doing builds in VR before even was a 10:27 thing. So I went into the um the BR into 10:30 weeping woods or whatever it's called 10:32 like the very foresty areas and I 10:34 started the the video probably still 10:36 exists. I started just farming all the 10:38 wood and then starting building team 10:40 logos of teams. I built face crown logo 10:42 and I bit like the TSM logo back in the 10:43 days and then that was my first ever 10:45 like creative content you can say. Okay. 10:47 >> So I started building in VR doing like 10:50 like random builds and uh the first ever 10:53 content I think it was the Halo 10:55 recreation that I made. 10:57 >> Okay. from the wait I think the first 11:00 the block what is the block yeah I think 11:01 the block contest we had it was the 11:03 first re real thing right 11:05 >> yeah yeah that was the first time I 11:06 started integrating creative kind of 11:08 into VR yeah 11:09 >> yeah so so the block and that was my 11:11 first video I I made the block Halo 11:13 wasn't allowed I didn't know that back 11:14 then was like I was just recreating the 11:16 map because fun 11:18 >> yeah I mean eight years too late I guess 11:19 but yeah 11:20 >> yeah but but but I remember like sitting 11:23 there and it was so painful to work 11:25 because all the grit snapping there 11:26 wasn't There was not there was nothing 11:28 really there. I think you had to like 11:29 had grit 20 23 or or something like 11:32 that. 11:33 >> Yeah. I don't think you could even take 11:34 off grid snap. 11:35 >> Yeah. You had to like build everything 11:36 in grit and then when you tried to turn 11:38 something it was it was so painful but 11:40 was so rewarding when you could create 11:42 something cool out of it because like it 11:44 wasn't done before. So it was everything 11:46 was cool and unique at that time. That 11:48 was 11:48 >> Yeah. There wasn't as many people, but 11:50 it was a little easier to stand out back 11:52 then. And you really saw like the big 11:54 builders like the Macakas and 11:56 >> Yeah. Oh, Maka, 11:58 >> you know, taking off. But, you know, and 11:59 and building crazy things that we never 12:02 even thought was possible. But I think a 12:04 lot of that came out, you know, we were 12:05 stuck basically on a 512 grade snap. 12:07 Like there was nothing you could do 12:09 other than that. And then then later off 12:10 they gave us um, you know, where you 12:12 could turn things into props and change 12:14 change it and actually, you know, it was 12:16 Hit Bash, right? And I've talked about 12:18 this podcast. 12:18 >> It was kazashing as its finest thing. 12:20 >> So, but you know, but me and me, you 12:23 know, me and Richie, we were really into 12:25 the 1.0 mechanics. That's kind of where 12:28 like we, you know, thrived in. And there 12:30 wasn't a lot of us. There wasn't a lot 12:32 of people really pushing the mechanic 12:33 space. 12:34 >> I mean, to be fair, there wasn't a lot 12:35 of mechanics back then. [laughter] 12:36 >> There wasn't. But it was kind of like 12:38 back in those days it was kind of like 12:40 it's still like being first to create 12:42 something or like not even and create 12:44 something is more of like making things 12:46 to [clears throat] kind of like help and 12:48 and stupid things like you know how to 12:50 grant weapons to players cuz you had to 12:52 pick weapons off the ground or stuff 12:55 like that you know how to make we had to 12:56 make our own storms with uh sequencer 12:59 devices all these things we had to kind 13:01 of like you know figure out how to 13:02 recreate. I remember the early days 13:04 there's this guy made this a whole storm 13:06 system with him with probably like hund 13:08 200 hundreds of sequencers like super 13:12 advanced we a lot of these guys aren't 13:14 around but I mean 13:15 >> wasn't like like Enigma or Donnie like 13:17 one of them like make like the oh that 13:19 was 13:20 >> also it was like crazy back in the day 13:22 then like people was like oh my god this 13:23 is like the first zone in in um in 13:25 creative now we can create like battle 13:27 royale in creative I remember like 13:30 enigma back in the days was this huge 13:32 huge deal like when he created the first 13:34 like like one of the first uh Zone Wars 13:37 maps or whatever that was. 13:38 >> Yeah. I don't know if it was downhill or 13:40 the one before that, but yeah, he 13:41 actually created kind of like a storm 13:43 that you could move. 13:45 >> Yeah. 13:45 >> And that and you could actually you 13:47 could actually cuz basically it was 13:48 linear paths cuz that's all a sequencer 13:50 can go is straight. But he kind of made 13:52 one that you could turn like turn with 13:54 it and added different damages. So it 13:56 was really realistic. Um and then he 13:59 ripped off my uh item granter method. 14:01 [laughter] 14:02 to to be to be fair, everybody ripped 14:03 off everybody in the space. I think 14:06 >> we were both still good friends with 14:07 Enigma and he's actually making a 14:08 comeback. He's actually back in the 14:10 space. He's been making 14:10 >> Yeah, I saw him I saw him recently tweet 14:12 out the he made like a really cool like 14:14 uh robot thing. 14:15 >> Yeah. Yeah. So, he's he's cracked still, 14:18 I think. You know what I mean? It it but 14:21 um those days were super fun. No, it it 14:24 >> was No, that was that was prime. 14:25 >> It was all right. Kind of last question 14:27 before we switch in about the old days, 14:29 you know, staying in Creative 1.0. um 14:31 era for a second. A lot of new creators 14:33 think maybe they've missed the window 14:35 that the early days were like the gold 14:36 rush and now it's just, you know, hard 14:38 mode. You know, looking back from where 14:41 you sit today, what's the actual mindset 14:43 difference between the builders, you 14:45 know, from back then and the ones 14:47 starting now? And what should new 14:48 creators steal from, you know, how we 14:50 used to do it? 14:51 >> M good question. I don't think there is 14:53 like um like a point where you're too 14:55 late for anything. 14:56 >> Yeah. ever and people said that back in 14:58 the YouTube days, right? Or now it's too 14:59 late to start YouTube and you know here 15:01 we are now. I think even now with UFN 15:03 it's easier I would say probably I think 15:05 there was like a time window where it 15:06 was really hard to get into creative 15:08 just before the UFN um update came but 15:11 um I think right now it's like a perfect 15:13 time to start because you can start 15:14 anywhere. You don't have to like 15:16 specialize in everything. You can you 15:17 can go modeling, you can go verse, you 15:19 can go there's so many different path 15:21 that you can go in and still have a 15:23 career or like have fun. 15:25 >> Yeah. I think there's like I think 15:27 there's never too late to start anything 15:28 anyway. So So don't be scared. That 15:30 that's I think that's the main thing 15:31 that I can it it may look a lot and it 15:33 will be a lot for for a lot of people 15:34 especially if you didn't know all the 15:36 mechanics like the the 1.0 stuff and 15:38 that is kind of annoying to learn. I'm 15:40 going to give that to everybody but 15:42 still you can just do modeling you can 15:44 do verse. You don't really need the the 15:45 1.0 stuff for that anymore. 15:47 >> Yes. Yeah. I mean for sure for sure. I 15:49 think I I agree. I don't think it's too 15:51 late. I think we're still very early, 15:53 [laughter] you know, especially if 15:54 you'll look at us next to to Roblox and 15:57 there's just so many things we still 15:59 don't even have in the editor that a lot 16:00 of editors have leaderboards, you know, 16:03 for one of them. 16:04 >> Um, you know, making larger maps or 16:06 being able to can link your maps 16:08 together, all those things. So, there's 16:09 there's still like it's still a good 16:11 time to learn. And I think, you know, 16:13 with scene graph, you know, I think 16:15 there's and I guess we're moving to UE6 16:17 maybe, you know, next year, the year 16:18 after, whenever it comes out, you know, 16:19 like they're his devices, you know, 16:22 devices are probably not going to be 16:23 around, you know, I mean, they'll be 16:24 around, but they're not you're not going 16:27 to probably have to really understand 16:28 them. The thing that I always like had 16:30 in my mind, and I know a lot of people 16:32 will hate me for that, but I think they 16:33 should lock Creative 1.0 at some point. 16:36 they should stop like developing it a 16:39 lot more and just use it as a tool for 16:41 beginners to come into. 16:42 >> Yeah. 16:43 >> If they're scared of the editor, let's 16:44 say like that. I think they should even 16:46 like tone down a lot of the stuff that 16:47 is in um 1.0 like right now because 16:51 there's like so much stuff in there that 16:52 is so advanced that a lot of people 16:54 would be confused about that. If they 16:56 had like the beginning that we had where 16:57 we had like only eight channels, it 16:59 would be so much easier to ease them in 17:02 instead of having 30 devices which 17:04 basically some of them do the same 17:05 stuff. I think they should lock 1.0. 17:08 Yeah. 17:08 >> And see it as a like beginner friendly 17:10 tool for everybody and then work the 17:12 rest on UFN because UFN you can scale 17:14 infinitely. It can become U5, U6, you 17:17 know. 17:17 >> But the 1.0 is so unique and so special 17:20 to learn. I don't think I would ever 17:21 started like really game development if 17:23 it wasn't for creative 1.0 Oh, and and 17:25 >> you know, I don't think people will have 17:27 that same advantage that we had back in 17:29 the days that it's so so easy to get 17:31 eased in into that. Obviously, UF is 17:33 made pretty easy, but 17:35 >> yeah. No, that that's definitely a spicy 17:38 take. I can see a lot of, you know, 17:39 definitely 17:40 >> I know I I did that take already and 17:41 there some people hating me for that, 17:43 but [laughter] some it's sometimes it's 17:45 true. You just have to like make 17:46 something that is for beginners and then 17:48 you can move on. 17:50 >> I I get what you're trying what you're 17:52 saying though and it does make sense. I 17:54 mean, 17:54 >> more so it's just like they're really 17:56 not putting, 17:57 >> you know, in the last year or two, they 17:58 haven't been putting that much focus in 18:00 1.0 anyway. 18:01 >> Yeah. Two fs again, do I me? But it's 18:04 good. I I like that they don't put that 18:05 much effort into it because 1.0 was 18:08 pretty good as it is. Like you can still 18:10 make most of the the current maps that 18:11 are you can make them. There's not a big 18:14 deal that you need for. So 18:16 >> yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean the cut, you 18:17 know, other than like the HUDs and I 18:19 guess a lot of that depending on the 18:21 kind of game you you make, you might not 18:23 even, you know, you don't need a lot of 18:24 those features. I've seen some gun games 18:26 actually straight up 1.0 gun games in 18:28 the last year take off on Discovery. So 18:30 that there's there is people do still 18:33 working in 1.0 and making successful 18:34 maps. But yeah, there they definitely, 18:36 you know, they just add devices here or 18:38 there now in 1.0 that it's more for UFN 18:41 and it it's kind of like here you guys 18:42 go too. And so I don't know, 1.0 is our 18:45 baby, right? So like 18:47 >> this comes from a place where you know 18:49 we I love I owe everything to 1.0 and so 18:52 it's it's definitely a spicy take. It's 18:55 what I 18:56 >> you know I go back and forth on this. 18:58 This is this is tough but like I miss 19:00 you know now that I'm in UFN a lot more. 19:02 I'm making my own games like really in 19:03 in in it and I've actually invested a 19:05 lot of time in it. There is something I 19:07 still miss about 1.0 building. There's 19:10 just something about 1.0 0 building and 19:12 I don't know if it was more of like it's 19:15 just changed differently, but in 1.0 19:17 days I I felt like I just was more 19:19 creating with other people. We were all 19:20 on the same server or even if they're in 19:23 their own islands, but we'd all like, 19:24 "Oh, come check this out." It was just 19:25 like more we'd all just build together 19:27 and you have your character, but it kind 19:29 of just felt I don't know. 19:30 >> It was like a game in a game. It was 19:32 like playing a game while also creating 19:34 a game. 19:34 >> Yeah. Yeah. 19:36 >> No, I get that. I get that. 19:37 >> And that was fun. And I just I think 19:38 that was just more there was just 19:40 something fun about it. and we all just 19:42 had the tools and you know with UEE6 19:44 coming I mean 1.0 is gonna be gone. I 19:46 mean there's I mean I I have no idea. I 19:48 hope not. But like like 19:50 >> I mean they should just lock it you know 19:52 like lock it at the at the place where 19:54 it is and just leave it there. 19:55 >> Yeah. Break it like obviously Epic knows 19:57 how to break things. We know that. So 20:00 just lock it have it have it be a stable 20:02 version. 20:02 >> No that's definitely a fun a fun take 20:05 for sure. I don't know. We all honestly 20:06 a lot of people have moved on and 20:08 honestly I think if you're actually 20:10 >> having a trying to have a career in um 20:12 you know Fortnite creative UFN it just 20:14 makes sense to go to UFN because UE6 are 20:17 well I don't I doubt we're going to see 20:19 this 1.0 anymore or you know what is it 20:22 going to be but um yeah man that's 20:25 that's a good that's a spicy one. 20:26 >> Yeah that's a spicy one. All right, I 20:28 want to kind of move on to like your, 20:29 you know, newer tutorials and your 20:31 teachings. You know, you're you have 20:33 this whole brand and and you've been 20:36 making highle tutorials in UFN. You 20:38 basically keep giving away your 20:39 knowledge in a free market where a lot 20:41 of people prefer to gatekeep, you know, 20:43 what does teaching, you know, why does 20:45 teaching matter to you? Um, and you 20:47 know, what do you think uh the UEFn 20:49 ecosystem loses when builders hoard 20:51 their setup, you know, instead of 20:53 sharing that? 20:53 >> It's a good question. Honestly, I I 20:55 always liked creating concepts more than 20:58 anything else. Yeah. 20:59 >> And I I never really liked building full 21:01 maps. It was like a joke back in the day 21:03 that I never build a map. So 21:05 >> I always like the concept more and I 21:07 wanted to share the concept with people 21:08 because I thought it was so cool that I 21:10 made this concept. So I just wanted to 21:11 share it. That was basically the whole 21:13 point of it because I always tried to 21:15 obviously I had no tutorials but I 21:16 always tried to like do some some cool 21:18 never done stuff before and and that was 21:20 my main my main main stick basically. I 21:22 I wanted to do something that nobody did 21:25 before and share the tutorial so people 21:28 can rebuild it and use it in their maps 21:29 or whatever. That was basically the the 21:31 thing that why I made the tutorials like 21:33 I made them back in the days. Yeah, that 21:35 is basically I think that wraps it 21:36 pretty up about that. Yeah, 21:38 >> just like the concepts made more fun for 21:40 me than actual making a full map. 21:43 >> Yeah, you you just really enjoyed the 21:44 tools. You really enjoyed manipulating 21:46 them, making really cool things and 21:48 showing play, you know, the players 21:50 >> pushing the tools to the limit. That 21:51 that was kind of like the how can I use 21:53 a barrier device to create tie frenzy in 21:56 in Fortnite? That that kind of I was 21:58 like that has never been done before. I 21:59 wanted to show that to everybody. It was 22:01 like a kind of like good for me. I want 22:02 to entertain people but also share the 22:04 the knowledge that I gained from that 22:06 because you know people can use it for 22:08 whatever they want. 22:08 >> No, I mean and it brings up a point and 22:10 this is something you know I'm I'm me 22:13 and him have have been doing a lot of 22:15 that the same thing. I haven't not in 22:16 the UEFN space. He kept going with it. 22:18 I, you know, I started a company and did 22:20 all this did a did did the game route. 22:22 But I agree. I always wanted to show off 22:24 making really cool things and what you 22:26 can do and creative and what you can 22:28 make. And I also think and you know 22:31 every everyone I had now that I it also 22:33 leads to something you know it it made 22:36 you look you know it made you um kind of 22:38 in the top 22:40 >> uh mechanics right just because of your 22:42 tutorials and that happens a lot a lot 22:43 of you know look at Tom Jank look at a 22:45 lot of these people that consistently 22:47 are posting really cool stuff that you 22:49 can do in engine but and they're making 22:52 games too but like I think that really 22:54 helps more on like getting hired as 22:57 well. Yeah, for sure. No, no, for sure. 23:00 I got obviously I still to this day get 23:02 a lot of offers. Yeah. To join teams and 23:04 like do stuff with people. I obviously I 23:06 like to stick more a little bit to my 23:07 own like things. I I'm not the biggest 23:10 like uh this project and this project. I 23:11 obviously have projects but um I like to 23:13 [clears throat] do just I want to 23:14 entertain people always. That was my 23:16 main thing and that's still why I want 23:18 to really come back to YouTube at a 23:19 certain point. But 23:20 >> yeah, I think that's like the the thing 23:22 that I always wanted to do just 23:23 entertain people and show them cool 23:25 stuff. That is that is the thing that I 23:26 always wanted. I really wanted to do 23:27 games. I just wanted to show cool stuff. 23:29 That is that is what I wanted to do 23:31 always. But uh 23:32 >> yeah, I mean we both were YouTubers 23:33 first, you know what I mean? We both 23:35 were YouTubers and then we just fell in 23:36 love with game, you know, fell in love 23:38 with the game. We fell in love with 23:40 creating the games and making content 23:42 around it. And what did you start with 23:44 your channel making like content on? Was 23:46 it always 23:47 >> like the No, actually I started with 23:48 Counterstrike. 23:49 >> Counterstrike? Actually, the first video 23:51 ever was Battlefield, but that was only 23:53 one video. And I I swapped to 23:54 Counter-Strike immediately after that. 23:56 And I just did a lot of Counter Strike. 23:58 I think I gave my first like 5,000 23:59 subscribers of Counter-Strike. 24:01 >> Okay. 24:01 >> And then I did Overwatch and then I came 24:03 to Fortnite. 24:04 >> That's pretty good. I didn't get that 24:06 much subscri like I still I don't even 24:08 think I got a thousand subscribers yet. 24:10 And I was already over in Fortnite 24:11 before then, but yeah, I was in Call of 24:12 Duty making content [clears throat] and 24:13 I was just getting my butt kicked over 24:15 there. And then finally when I started 24:17 Fortnite content, it started taking off 24:18 for me. It was like it made a lot more 24:21 sense to do that. 24:22 >> Yeah. To Okay, I'm gonna be honest to be 24:24 fair. My Counter-Strike videos, they 24:25 were good videos, but I also, you know, 24:27 everybody experiments on YouTube a bit. 24:30 And I did some very clickb stuff back in 24:32 the days. I still did on on creative 24:33 1.0. To be fair, you it sometimes, you 24:35 know, you try to figure out what works 24:37 for you, what doesn't work. And you 24:38 obviously some videos just pop off and 24:40 they go like 100k views and then you 24:42 have the next video that you try. Oh, 24:43 cool. Now I have all these viewers. Do 24:45 what video has got 100 views? 24:46 >> Yeah. Maybe I have to go back to the 24:48 clickbait. 24:49 >> Clickbait. It's 24:50 >> clickable is what I like to say. And 24:52 it's not it's not like we invented 24:54 clickbait, right? That's just something 24:56 you h like I do it on this podcast. Look 24:59 at all the thumbnails. 25:00 >> I agree. Do I want to have, you know, 25:02 these weird faces are me and my guests 25:04 are making with a a cringe headline? No. 25:08 But it's part of getting people to 25:10 click. And you know, at my job here, I 25:13 want people to watch this. I want people 25:14 to consume this content. And you have to 25:17 do certain things to do that. And I 25:19 hope, you know, I hope at least if I get 25:20 you to click, you'll stay and, you know, 25:22 actually see like what the content's 25:24 about. And it's, you know, 25:26 >> it's actually about giving back. 25:27 >> I think the biggest thing by about 25:29 YouTube 25:30 >> is you don't you should not lie. This is 25:32 clickbait. Yeah. There's like a 25:33 difference between lying and clickbait. 25:34 So if I say um how to get uh the mass 25:38 amount like get all the XP in the world 25:41 and I just explain you how to use the 25:42 accolade device then obviously that's uh 25:44 that's kind of lying. 25:45 >> Yes, 25:46 >> you just want to stick to the like make 25:48 an interesting title and then you know 25:50 go with the actual good information in 25:52 that video. I literally have a very 25:54 clickbait XP. I'm just 25:56 >> I mean we all did and like 25:59 >> we tried like you know here and we tried 26:01 it. People hate it. Like I got so many 26:03 hate comments from people like oh my god 26:05 you click better than me so much even 26:06 though I didn't really much click great 26:08 but still like they they they notice it 26:10 and you feel about it like you 26:11 don't you don't feel great about it and 26:13 I say okay no I I'm not going to do 26:14 that. That's that's not cool to do. And 26:16 then yeah 26:17 >> then you don't get 26:18 >> learn from it and you grow from it. 26:20 But to your point that XP video I think 26:22 I was like 250,000 [laughter] 300 some 26:24 crazy views and and it's just again 26:27 that's just part of the game and I 26:29 understand that 26:30 >> if you shouldn't lie for sure it should 26:33 be part of it. Um but piggyback I want 26:35 to stay on this topic just one like you 26:37 know what do you think about this 26:38 because you know you've made a lot of 26:40 tutorials that's probably helped 26:41 creators you know get successful games. 26:44 I have a tutorial I know that is how to 26:47 literally build a 1v one map and that 26:49 map is still one of the top 1 v one maps 26:51 and it has been for the years from that 26:53 my tutorial you know what I mean and I'm 26:55 not taking anything away from that 26:57 person they you know they update it and 26:59 whatever and I I don't care about it but 27:02 I'm just like I just just to set this 27:03 story up you know what I mean like I 27:05 know you have helped out tons of 27:07 creators you know what what's your 27:09 thought on that [laughter] 27:10 >> I I always joke around 27:12 >> with my team currently that Like if I 27:14 would take 5% from every map that I help 27:16 with. 27:17 >> Yeah. 27:18 >> With the to I would be multi-millionaire 27:19 and I would be sailing off in my yard. 27:21 >> Yeah. 27:22 >> I I don't even want to claim that I made 27:25 them or helped them or whatever because 27:28 I obviously took like okay maybe there's 27:30 one tutorial which I like worked on the 27:33 whole week and then somebody makes a map 27:34 of it and makes a million from it. I was 27:36 like, okay, that is kind of it feels a 27:38 bit bad, but also like I made it for for 27:40 them. So, I cannot be mad about getting 27:43 making money off of off the tutorial. 27:44 So, I get the benefit from it. People 27:46 watch the tutorial and then they make 27:48 the benefit of using the tutorial. So, I 27:50 think you cannot really be mad about 27:52 that. Like it is sometimes especially if 27:54 like a a bad person, a bad actor uses 27:56 your tutorials and then makes money off 27:57 it. That's annoying but that rarely 28:00 happens. And I know so many people which 28:02 thank me and like asked me questions and 28:04 I gladly help them with anything back in 28:06 the days and still to this day. Uh and 28:09 it's I think it's it's important to just 28:11 help each otherwise it just collapses. 28:13 If everybody get if everybody just 28:15 gatekeeps then nothing moves on. 28:17 >> Yeah. We're not growing. We're not 28:18 bringing people new in this space. we're 28:20 not making having people make new 28:21 content like or or you know inspiring 28:24 the the new generation to do that, you 28:26 know, and I think that's super important 28:28 for us to grow. Like if we don't have 28:30 this content, if we're not helping 28:31 people get into this ecosystem, people 28:33 aren't making [clears throat and cough] 28:34 maps, then this all collapses. So there 28:36 is like we need this. We do need this. 28:39 But I I agree. I agree. I made the 28:41 tutorial good for you guys. Like just 28:43 just because I like showed you how to 28:45 make something doesn't necessarily mean 28:46 that it's going to take off. Like 28:48 there's a lot more that goes into these 28:49 making games pop off and social media. 28:52 >> Exactly. It's not just this one 28:54 mechanic. It like obviously it takes a 28:56 lot of more. I mean you can always claim 28:58 Yeah, I made this mechanic and maybe 29:00 even it's a main mechanic of the map. 29:02 It's still there's still a lot more to 29:03 the the thing than just the mechanic or 29:06 the the building or whatever. 29:07 >> 100%. No, I think I just I think it's a 29:09 fun question because yes, like look, we 29:12 I've made probably total on my you know, 29:14 Fortnite trailers and and and even I 29:17 have millions of views like you know 10 29:19 grand maybe 5 to 10 grand and this is 29:21 over five years. 29:23 >> This is like this is a long period of 29:24 time like so I'm not we're not make you 29:26 don't make that much money in YouTube 29:27 unless you're the big guys and so and 29:29 then you think about the game you know 29:31 hundreds of thousands a month off of 29:32 some of your content you know it's it's 29:34 crazy it's crazy to think about. So, but 29:36 that's that's just why why I bring it 29:38 up. All right, let's uh let's talk about 29:40 the ecosystem. You know, it moves very 29:42 fast. It's not always in a direction um 29:44 you know that creators expect. We have 29:46 modes come and go, 29:48 >> players migrate, partnerships shift. A 29:51 lot of builders who start when they did 29:53 have already burned out or moved on. 29:54 Like a lot of our, you know, although 29:56 gez back in our days there's not very 29:58 many of them around still, you know, 29:59 like what's the actual habit? Yes. What' 30:02 you say? 30:02 >> Some are just coming back, you know. 30:04 >> Some are coming back. Yes. It's 30:06 addictive is that you're always going to 30:07 come back. You can't stay on the way too 30:09 long. But like what I'm getting at is 30:11 like what's the actual habit or like 30:12 mindset that has kept you building 30:14 through all of this? Right. Again, 30:16 there's not many of us here. Like 30:18 >> I think honestly the laugh of the game 30:20 [snorts] 30:21 >> as much as that corny sounds, but uh I 30:24 think I just enjoy creating stuff and I 30:28 would do it anyways no matter where. If 30:29 it if it doesn't is in UFN, I would do 30:31 it somewhere else. I always like the 30:32 sandbox mode. That's the reason why I 30:34 like initially even got back into 30:36 Fortnite because I quit Fortnite. I 30:37 didn't enjoy the BR mode and I heard 30:39 that they have this creative mode. I was 30:40 like, "Oh my god, this sounds perfect." 30:41 And then I just came back to it and it 30:43 was like the best thing ever. Yeah. I I 30:45 think I just enjoy creating. If it 30:47 wouldn't be in youn 30:50 that's the main thing here. If you I 30:52 think you have to also love it because 30:53 otherwise it just burns you out. I mean 30:55 burnout happens no matter what, but if 30:57 you don't love creating stuff, if you 30:59 just do it for the money, it will not 31:00 work. just 31:03 >> I mean there's like the 1enter which 31:05 maybe gets lucky but you know for the 31:07 rest 31:07 >> when you started there you couldn't make 31:08 money 31:09 >> there was no like engagement payout 31:11 there was only creator codes and to be 31:13 fair no UFN or like 1.0 no creator had 31:16 the the reach to get any really like 31:19 people on your credit code. So the first 31:22 year maybe not year but the first six 31:23 months or something was just people who 31:25 had passion for it and that's it. It was 31:27 like and people who stuck there were 31:29 basically also become successful because 31:31 they they loved it and that's basically 31:33 how it would go. 31:34 >> Yeah. Yeah. And they they eventually you 31:36 know it still for a long time until UFN 31:40 it was all with creator your creator 31:42 code. you had to [clears throat] have 31:43 >> people put in your code and they got 31:45 they added some things later on where 31:47 you could actually like favorite or add 31:49 your creator code right from your map. 31:50 You know, some people use your chest. 31:53 [laughter] There are some things back in 31:55 the day, but like you actually had 31:57 someone enter it. You know what I mean? 31:59 It was very hard. So there again, there 32:01 was some people there made some money. I 32:03 heard some of the first few features 32:05 they made. I think they were making 32:06 around 1015 grand possibly back then. I 32:09 had no idea and I I never even submitted 32:11 for features for like a year or two. It 32:14 was to a point where I think Epic 32:16 actually said, "Hey, would you submit 32:17 this?" Like I just I was kind of like 32:20 back then I had a different mindset and 32:22 I was just like, I don't I'm not I don't 32:24 want I don't want to rely on anyone. I'm 32:26 going to do this. I'm going to use my 32:27 content but get my maps going and and it 32:29 it worked in some ways but also stupid. 32:33 I should have been putting in features 32:34 like why not? Just like today, you 32:36 should be submitting to Epic Pics. Why 32:37 not? You know what I mean? 32:38 >> And that reminds me so much of me. I was 32:40 like, "Yeah, I have my channel. I want 32:42 to grow everything by myself and I don't 32:43 need anybody else." And it's a good 32:45 thing for for creators these days that 32:46 you have to realize that 32:48 >> maybe it's not only that you have to 32:50 build the map and make the thumbnail and 32:52 you also need somebody to promote it. If 32:53 you not want to promote it yourself, 32:55 then you maybe need somebody that is a 32:57 streamer, a content creator or somebody 32:58 that can just promote. It is important 33:00 part and you should like take care of 33:02 that. That's like very important. 33:04 >> Yeah. Yeah. And I I still say it. I made 33:06 tweets in the last year or two just just 33:08 that like do not rely on Epic. You can't 33:10 rely on Epic. I mean, they have to do 33:12 their job. There are things like we out 33:13 of our control like discovery or changes 33:15 they make. Yes. But like having to build 33:17 a presence or an audience 33:20 >> definitely [clears throat] can help, you 33:21 know, get at least get your map out out 33:23 there. But it's not easy. It's 33:24 definitely not easy. But no, no, that's 33:26 that's that's a good answer, man. All 33:28 right, let's talk about ballistics, man. 33:30 And I know this one hits close to home. 33:32 And me, too, cuz I love ballistics. 33:34 velop anything search and destroy is my 33:36 game mode. So you recently in the last 33:39 what is it 6 months probably you 33:40 launched that. 33:41 >> Yeah. No actually was almost a year now. 33:43 >> It's been a year time. You know how 33:44 freaking time. 33:45 >> Full full year now I think. 33:46 >> So you built a core FPS uh practice and 33:49 um as the place people could warm up 33:51 before jumping into real Fortnite 33:53 Ballistics mode. Um and you even had a 33:55 tutorial series. You know the practice 33:57 map. The whole pipeline. All of it was 33:58 pointed at um you know supporting this 34:00 official mode and then Epic ruined it. 34:04 They ruined it. Yeah. 34:05 >> So, be honest with me. When that news 34:07 dropped, which was very recently, 34:09 [clears throat] 34:10 less than a month ago, you know, what 34:11 was your first going through your head? 34:13 And, you know, where do all those maps 34:15 and that FPS work, you know, go from 34:17 here, man? 34:18 >> Oh, man. That was honestly um during 34:22 that time I I probably had the worst 34:23 time of my life anyway. Everything was 34:25 coming perfectly together. You think, 34:27 "Oh my god, this guy is like being so 34:28 dramatic because of a mode." But for 34:30 those who don't know, I've been doing 34:33 tutorials on how to get first person in 34:35 uh credit 1.0 for like 34:37 >> 4 years at that time. Yeah. 34:38 >> And then finally getting the first 34:40 person camera and I I was so hyped. I 34:42 saw the like like everybody was hired 34:44 like this was the biggest thing for for 34:46 for a lot of us you as well, right? 34:48 >> I thought this was going to bring like I 34:50 thought this was it. 34:51 >> And I think it did bring a lot of people 34:52 especially when they launched ballistic 34:54 and they launched ballistic. like, "Oh 34:55 my god, there's no way. They're actually 34:57 launching a Counter-Strike mode, which I 34:59 have too many hours in. They're doing it 35:01 with first person, and they're giving us 35:03 creative the the weapons." And I was 35:06 like, "Oh my god, this is a dream." 35:07 >> And obviously I I started immediately. I 35:10 didn't even really jump into ballistic 35:11 first. I started doing the maps first. 35:13 >> So, and then uh I I I put out my first 35:16 map. It was like a a 1 v one map or 35:18 something like that. I was like just one 35:20 v one mode and I turned it into the 35:21 practice map in the end of the day. But 35:24 I was so hyped and obviously they only 35:27 had this one map and I saw the potential 35:29 and everybody saw the potential. I saw 35:30 people were like so hyped but everybody 35:33 saw okay this needs a lot of work but it 35:35 can be done. They're bringing out more 35:36 maps and then having the gray box maps 35:38 and everything. Oh god, this could be 35:40 very big. And then they just drop 6 35:42 months of nothing in between. There was 35:44 still the gray box maps in there. They 35:46 dropped nothing. I was okay maybe 35:48 they're working on a big thing. 35:50 >> It's epic in the end of the day. And 35:51 then they just we read out this tweet 35:53 and I was so full of hate in that 35:55 moment. I mean the people who saw that 35:57 tweet that I put put out you know how 35:59 much I uh was in anger in that time. 36:02 >> Yeah. I I felt it though too. 36:04 >> Yeah. I was I was so speechless. I'm 36:06 still speechless to to think about that 36:07 they this dropped this mode which had so 36:10 much potential. Everybody was saying 36:11 like from all the metaverse modes I 36:13 think this one was where people said a 36:15 lot that it has potential and I think 36:17 everybody saw it other than maybe the 36:18 guys at Epic. I don't know what the 36:21 decision- making was why it was taken 36:23 down. Probably because it didn't make 36:24 enough money or didn't get get enough 36:26 players. But it's obvious because the 36:28 first person camera is not there yet. 36:29 The guns were not there yet. It was 36:31 running on creative or what UFN or a mix 36:34 of that. I think they said they had some 36:35 some mixture in between. 36:37 >> Yeah. So obviously it didn't like bring 36:40 all the players back because it it 36:41 cannot compete with Counterstrike and 36:43 Valerant because it was just a test mode 36:44 and alpha mode. I I just hope for for 36:47 the foreseeable future that Epic just 36:50 took down this mode and just reworks it 36:52 fully, right? The hope the hope dies 36:54 last, reworks it fully, brings it out 36:56 with six maps and fully reworked and 36:58 brings it out nicely. That is my my last 37:00 hope for this mode. Yeah, I was I was 37:03 dev and like actually I think I never 37:05 felt this bad in a long time about video 37:08 games because [clears throat] 37:09 >> it also not only killed like the the 37:12 love for the for Ballistic obviously 37:14 because they took it down, 37:15 >> but it also killed my own map which they 37:17 they also killed I don't care about 37:19 money that much, but it was giving like 37:21 a little bit extra, right? So help me 37:23 develop the map a little bit more and 37:25 they just killed it. Like the map is 37:26 like down to like seven players now. It 37:28 was it's going up to 100 players and 100 37:31 average and now it's seven average. I 37:33 was like, "Okay, great. That is 37:34 fantastic." I was like, "Also, the map 37:36 was the perfect example for a map 37:38 organically growing because it was 37:40 growing organically without anything. 37:42 Like I was not promoting it. People were 37:44 just playing it because they they want 37:45 to practice and warm up and it was just 37:47 growing and people practice and did 37:48 their one v1s there and it grew with 37:50 discovery. It was a perfect example for 37:52 Discovery working and then they just 37:54 take down the mode and then the map dies 37:55 instantly." I was like, "Oh god, bro." 37:57 like epic. Come on. 37:58 >> Yeah. A double kick. Yeah, for sure. For 38:01 sure. No, I've I've I've been there. I 38:03 mean, and not in the sense of, you know, 38:06 just seeing your map, you know, 38:08 organically grow and then it just kind 38:10 of dies off. Either a new map that's 38:12 better comes out or whatever happens 38:13 algorithm. 38:14 >> I wouldn't have any problems with that. 38:15 You know, I like competition a lot 38:17 >> and I was like kind of getting bored 38:18 because I was the only really practice 38:21 map there was for Ballistic. So, I 38:23 didn't really had any competition, which 38:24 is kind of annoying because I don't 38:26 really work on the map then if there's 38:28 no competition. 38:28 >> Yeah. 38:29 >> Um, and they just kill it. Like I'm 38:31 still the disbelief that they did that. 38:33 So, like out of my words like that they 38:36 >> a lot of us are and a lot of the big 38:38 creators like Typical Gamer came out. I 38:40 think they even made kind of a some sort 38:43 of a ballistic type mode too recent 38:45 somewhat recently. They made like a like 38:48 a royale uh first person map, but 38:50 obviously again it comes down to the 38:52 same thing every time with first person. 38:53 >> Yeah, 38:54 >> there are not enough guns and there's 38:55 not enough guns that support it. So it 38:57 just like comes down to the same 38:58 ballistic guns or you have like no 39:00 missing animations for like 90% of the 39:03 weapons which is very very terrible to 39:05 play. 39:05 >> Yeah, it's it's just jank and and and 39:08 it's unfortunate. I I don't know. I you 39:10 know thinking back about first person 39:12 coming and we've that's something all of 39:14 us have asked for for years like and 39:16 they they not just dropped first person 39:18 they drop top down sides scroll like 39:19 they give us a bunch of different 39:20 options now but none of them have really 39:23 stayed I mean first person for horror is 39:25 still there's still maps that pop up 39:27 with the first person but you know it's 39:29 just weird like no one everyone wants 39:31 their player and that and that's also 39:33 happens on Roblox it's kind of the same 39:34 thing I mean they have first person over 39:36 there but it's still [clears throat] 39:37 generally that third person view that 39:38 that kind of takes off. But saying all 39:40 that, and I know you made this tweet, 39:42 and so have I, but I just don't. One, 39:45 they should have supported the weapons 39:46 and got all those done. They should 39:48 support first person, but two, that was 39:50 a perfect setup, and they've done this 39:52 in the past with the block for instance, 39:54 like what? Give us the option to make 39:57 these games, make these things, uh, you 40:00 know, make make the levels and you have 40:02 free content, unlimited content. Um, and 40:05 a lot of people would have done it. 40:06 Every time I think about this, I'm I'm 40:08 just so in disbelief that they actually 40:10 put 40:11 >> like, you know, the worst part about 40:12 this is also that they killed Rocket 40:14 Racing. I mean, that they didn't really 40:16 kill the festival one because that was 40:17 just the one mode of the festival one. 40:19 >> Yeah. 40:20 >> But the rocket racing they have so much 40:22 like they put so much effort into all of 40:24 this. 40:25 >> Yeah. I remember when it launched, 40:26 right, they had they had battle p like 40:29 like the cars and everything. Like I I 40:31 remember also that the Rocket League 40:32 community got so mad at Epic for 40:35 cancelelling the Rocket Racing because 40:36 they said that they, you know, cancelled 40:39 trading for Rocket League. So So they 40:41 got mad that they canled the Rocket 40:43 Racing mode. I don't know what the like 40:45 the like the decision-m at that point in 40:47 time was so out of my like word. I could 40:50 cannot understand anything that happened 40:52 there to this day. Like I cannot believe 40:54 it. It had good CCU, especially at the 40:56 start, and even before it, you know, 40:58 dropped, it still had a few thousand, 41:00 but the the the car the S car was not um 41:04 it didn't it didn't play like the normal 41:06 um Rocket League car, which I think was 41:10 kind of a miss because we could have 41:11 really made practice maps. 41:13 >> Yep. 41:14 >> For that that and that would have 41:15 brought a whole group of people over to 41:17 our ecosystem. But yeah, it's also just 41:20 like we have, you know, we don't have a 41:22 lot of sports games. cuz we don't have 41:24 the physics really to to do that. 41:26 >> I mean, now we kind of have a little 41:28 bit, you know, 41:29 >> we do now, but it's even even then we're 41:32 still not seeing sports. John was take 41:34 out like Roblox sports is really big 41:35 over there and racing. Um, and that's 41:38 just something we have not like the 41:40 tools are just a little lacking for us 41:42 to really 41:43 >> take take those genres over. But you 41:46 know what I really think Fortnite should 41:48 have done in racing? They should have 41:49 done rock racing, whatever. Try all 41:51 that. Try it. See what what sticks. But 41:53 like why we don't have like a a Mario 41:55 Kart Fortnite Mario Kart. 41:57 >> Yeah, for sure. 41:58 >> mode that imagine the amount and they 42:01 could keep it E for everyone and and 42:02 imagine amount like the all the 42:04 demographics would could would come in 42:06 and easily play that game. 42:08 >> I think I think honestly the the Rocket 42:10 Racing I mean it okay they did it and 42:12 it's fine but I think that was the first 42:14 biggest miss that they did by putting 42:16 out Rocket Racing as such a competitive 42:18 mode. Fortnite was is way more these 42:20 like casual young people kind of Mario 42:23 Kart. It would have fit so much better 42:24 than the rocket racing that they did. 42:26 Yeah, they did it. It worked out. It was 42:27 all right. But again, the the the Mario 42:29 Kart would have been so much better. I 42:31 think personally in my opinion, 42:33 >> I think a lot of people say that. 42:34 >> Yeah. And take all the cool old POIs and 42:37 let us race inside of it. Give us, you 42:39 know, cool things to for boost and 42:41 throwing at player, whatever. I think 42:43 they would have that mode could crush. 42:45 Um, I do say I will say this though, 42:47 without mobile, especially, you know, 42:49 now it's kind of back, but like that 42:51 that mode would have really took off 42:53 with mobile, I bet. Anyway, man, I had 42:55 to ask that question and I'm I'm bummed 42:57 too as a you know, I I played very high 43:00 level Call of Duty search and destroy. 43:02 So, I'm very, you know, though, you 43:04 know, these objective game modes in 43:06 Fortnite as all of us have really tried 43:09 to take those take, you know, we've seen 43:11 capture the flag week for a while. There 43:12 was capture the flag couple. Yeah, that 43:15 stayed around for a while. Had CCUs. 43:17 That was it. Man, it's really hard to 43:19 get these, you know, dominations, 43:21 captures, the SNDs, like to to take off 43:24 in our ecosystem. And it's kind of kind 43:26 of, you know, sucks. I mean, it really 43:29 does. Like, I really wish there was a 43:30 path that it would make more sense so we 43:32 [clears throat] could just at least make 43:33 those games and and people would want to 43:35 play them. But even even with Epic, you 43:38 know, Ballistic still had decent CCUs, 43:40 but, you know, it probably it obviously 43:42 didn't hit the mark. It wasn't paying 43:44 the bills. 43:44 >> Yeah. The the thing about Ballistic 43:46 also, this one was also technically the 43:48 the wrong mode. I think they should have 43:49 went more with the Call of Duty like 43:51 mode. 43:51 >> Yeah. 43:51 >> But it's like more like a little bit of 43:52 like arcadey instead of the hardcore 43:55 competitive FPS. Again, 43:56 >> that's a good point. Not CS, a little 43:58 more Call of Duty. 43:59 >> Yeah, because you have to compete with 44:01 Counterstrike and Valerant. These are 44:03 like the two biggest games and they have 44:05 insanely like competitive players are 44:07 insanely for the for the stats and for 44:09 the hit registration, everything like 44:10 that. So getting onto that level 44:13 requires so much work and I don't think 44:15 Fortnite UFN was ready for that at all. 44:18 >> Yeah. 44:18 >> So a more arcade mode would have been 44:20 makes so much more sense and they could 44:21 have like hit Call of Duty with that 44:23 because it was down anyways. 44:24 >> Yeah. 44:25 >> So 44:26 >> yeah, 44:26 >> again it was like these little decisions 44:28 that Epic is almost right, but then they 44:31 kind of like mess it up in the last 44:32 step. That is kind of like what I always 44:34 have with Epic. Like they they almost 44:36 there but then they just like I don't 44:38 know. It was like 44:39 >> Yeah. Yeah. It it's um I don't know. 44:42 It's easy to Monday quarterback, right? 44:44 But like it's it's it's also it's a good 44:46 thing to kind of like talk about and 44:48 think about and and it it all comes down 44:50 to even when you're thinking about 44:52 making your own games, right? Uh to 44:54 think about all these things. But 44:55 >> yeah, cuz like CS GO I think another 44:58 thing about Ballistics that would have 44:59 really made it pop was if they really 45:01 hit the cosmetics, right? Like CS GO has 45:05 this whole economy outside of it. These 45:07 cool collectibles now. 45:08 >> They could have made the money. They 45:09 could have made so much money with it 45:11 just like having like a knife skin, 45:12 having like different like animations, 45:14 whatever. Like 45:15 >> Yeah. 45:16 >> But again, it comes down to you've end 45:17 up not being ready for it 45:19 >> and you know, then we have ballistic. 45:21 >> Yes. Well, hopefully hopefully you know 45:23 I know Epic saw saw a lot of our tweets 45:26 and and hopefully there's something down 45:28 the pipeline. Who knows? I I mean they 45:30 also just laid off so many people. 45:31 >> By the way, Epic never take my tweets 45:33 any personal. I I just like just want 45:36 just wanted to leave that out there. 45:38 This was I was 45:38 >> We love you. I picked it up. 45:40 >> Yeah, we love you. But you know, 45:41 sometimes you do some some interesting 45:43 stuff. Say the least. 45:44 >> I would love to be in their shoes, but 45:45 also hate to be in their shoes. And as a 45:46 map creators, we get in as and content 45:48 creators here. We get great comments and 45:50 we get you get the bad ones. But if you 45:52 can try to look through the bad ones as 45:54 some sort of feedback and get something 45:55 out of it though. Maybe some maybe they 45:57 are right. They just don't know how to 45:59 write good feed uh actual feedback. But 46:01 yeah, I think they know that, right? 46:03 They're they're listening. But again, 46:04 they're such a big business. I like I 46:07 have I don't I don't try to pretend to 46:08 understand how to run a freaking massive 46:10 studio of that size. But yeah, it's I 46:12 think at the end of the day, it all 46:13 comes from our passion for this place, 46:15 though. So, it comes from a good spot. 46:17 Like, if we didn't care, we wouldn't be 46:19 here. We wouldn't say 46:20 >> if we didn't care about it, I wouldn't 46:21 have like, you know, I wouldn't be so 46:22 mad. I actually cared about it. So, it 46:25 just hit me even harder. That's uh 46:27 that's also why we tweet about creative 46:29 because we care about it. Like, if we 46:30 don't care, then we we wouldn't tweet, 46:32 you know? It's like we just want things 46:34 to become better. That's the that's the 46:36 part. It maybe sounds like annoying like 46:38 if we constantly tweet about like this 46:40 and that or like uh how unfair we are 46:42 treated or whatever, but in the end of 46:44 day we just care about it and we want 46:46 the the UFN to be as good as possible 46:48 because 46:49 >> we grew up with it basically like for 46:51 for most of us it's like the decade of a 46:53 lifetime that we spent in UFN or C 1.0. 46:55 So 46:55 >> I'm glad we got that one out of the way. 46:57 So, um, let's take a beat from UEFN 46:59 because anyone who has, you know, known 47:01 you for a minute maybe knows about this, 47:04 like football used to be a massive part 47:06 of your life. 47:07 >> You were out on the pitch every chance 47:09 you got. How did that side of you like 47:11 shape the way you build or what you 47:13 know, maybe what would surprise people 47:15 about you who don't know or only maybe 47:17 know you [clears throat] from YouTube 47:18 and X? Um, you know, versus Richie. 47:21 think um having a balance 47:24 outside of gaming is always important 47:26 and I always had that thankfully since I 47:28 was little I started playing ice hockey 47:29 when I was a kid. I mean to be fair I 47:31 played a little bit of uh soccer in 47:32 Germany obviously very popular but I 47:34 didn't didn't really stick to me so I 47:36 switched to ice hockey and then as I was 47:38 growing a little bit older I actually 47:40 switched to American football and I 47:42 think having that balance can going away 47:44 from your PC and just doing something 47:46 completely different that has nothing to 47:48 do with any of this is so important and 47:50 anybody should have something that is 47:52 not related to your PC if you if you're 47:55 working on your PC because it is so 47:56 important to have like a a balance that 47:59 is something than just the work or the 48:01 gaming. I think that's super important. 48:03 >> I agree. I 100% agree. And I I think 48:05 there there's a lot of people that I've 48:07 met um and that are very successful. And 48:10 just this is, you know, this doesn't 48:12 this doesn't necessarily mean it's true 48:13 or anything, but I think playing an 48:15 organized sport at some level, there's 48:17 something about it just like you learn 48:19 how to work with people, you learn how 48:21 to work with teams, you have a, you 48:22 know, a coach, you learn how to like 48:24 >> especially team sports. 48:25 >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. There's just 48:28 something about it that like helped I 48:30 think helped me or maybe you know gave 48:33 me even more confidence in certain times 48:35 of my life. But there is something about 48:37 playing an organized sport. But even so 48:39 like just getting your heart rate up, 48:41 getting outside like 48:42 >> go to the gym if if you cannot do 48:44 anything else than to just go out 48:46 walking do something physical that is so 48:48 important. 48:49 >> Yes. Uh I think if I if I wouldn't like 48:52 because right now I'm a little bit in 48:53 the phase where I have like really big 48:55 projects and I I just sit on the PC all 48:57 day and I know my body feels like kind 48:59 of iffy you know it's like I need to do 49:01 something. I cannot right now but 49:03 obviously the second I can go outside 49:04 anymore the second I can go outside I 49:06 would do it and you know do sport again 49:08 because 49:09 >> you just clump up. You just like 49:11 >> you maybe don't start feeling it. If you 49:13 do it for a long time, this feels normal 49:14 to you. But the second you start doing 49:16 sport and like getting into it again is 49:18 like, "Oh my god, how could I live like 49:20 that?" I think that's super important to 49:22 just have a have a balance that is 49:25 something else than just sitting on a PC 49:27 for 49:28 >> So true. So true. And it's hard. We all 49:31 have to make easy. 49:33 >> Yeah, we all have to make sacrifices. 49:34 And yeah, but when I was heavily in the 49:36 you know, my maths were taking off those 49:38 days. I did not I was at a computer 16 49:41 hours a day like like it it just it was 49:44 so hard. So that there is trying to find 49:46 that balance. But yeah, like I Wart did 49:48 come on, he was on a previous episode 49:50 and he like gets a lot of his ideas when 49:52 he goes and runs, you know, and I think 49:54 there is something about getting away 49:56 like when I would get stuck and a 49:57 mechanic or get stuck, I would like 49:59 leave once I left and kind of like I 50:01 might maybe think about it, you know, 50:03 throughout the day and then sometimes it 50:04 would just be like pop in my head. Oh, I 50:06 didn't try that. Let me try that next 50:07 time. And you kind of figure it out. 50:09 Like sometimes taking a break and 50:10 getting away is definitely, you know, I 50:12 would say for me at least, it helps 50:14 helps a lot. It's funny because I have 50:16 my best ideas when I because in Germany 50:18 we walk a lot. It's like a common like 50:20 thing. So I always go to the grocery 50:22 store which is like 50 minutes away. So 50:24 I always take that walk and I I get my 50:27 best ideas by walking to that store. 50:29 Like if I would just take the car then I 50:31 would just like sit there for 2 minutes 50:33 and then be there. But I think the 50:34 walking there is so important that I 50:37 that you kind of like you get the ideas 50:39 because you can't like think of anything 50:40 in that time. Yeah. Like 50:42 >> the car you have to focus a little bit 50:43 on on this and that. But the walking you 50:46 just walk you just like you can let your 50:47 mind free other than the the traffic 50:50 lights. You should be careful for that. 50:51 But you know other than that the walking 50:53 just just taking a walk in the middle of 50:54 your your work session when you do not 50:56 can continue whatever you're doing just 50:58 like that that you come so many ideas 51:00 like instantly. I don't know why, but it 51:03 is the the physics of that is crazy. 51:05 >> It's true. It's 100% true. I I try to 51:07 tell anybody, especially if you're just 51:08 like, you know, maybe you're scared to 51:10 go to the gym, whatever it is, like try 51:12 to just get up and walk. Just like 51:13 >> Yeah. Walk outside. Just 51:15 >> like run around your block once or 51:16 whatever, like do whatever. Just you can 51:18 just walk. Don't don't you don't need to 51:20 run. You just can walk. 51:22 >> Yes. 51:22 >> Do a nice nice walk in the park. 51:24 Whatever. 51:25 >> It it it's so true. It's so true. It's 51:28 something that a lot of us don't talk 51:29 about, you know, and and I get it. But I 51:31 think for your mind and sharpness and 51:33 feeling better, it's it's a must, you 51:35 know, a lot of us, you know, have have 51:38 been where you've I've been there. 51:40 You've been there. Yeah. It's definitely 51:42 something I try to have change, 51:43 especially when you get older, man. Your 51:44 back, you cannot sit on [laughter] this 51:47 damn chair for too long, dude. My back 51:49 my back starts screaming. Yeah. So, take 51:51 care of yourself now before you get to 51:53 my age. Also, the the most important 51:56 thing that everybody should do is get a 51:58 good chair. 51:59 >> Yes. 52:00 >> Like really like I mean you don't have 52:02 to like I have a Hammond Miller right 52:03 now which is like I think the top tier 52:04 chair that you can buy but you don't 52:06 have to buy this one but buy a good one. 52:08 Don't don't cheap out on a chair like 52:10 >> Yeah. Greaser. 52:12 >> Yeah. And don't don't get any of the the 52:14 gaming chairs. Yes. 52:16 >> They're like really bad. But I actually 52:18 had a problem where I had like back 52:19 problems and I didn't know where it was 52:21 coming from. I I could have been from 52:22 football, but actually the doctor found 52:23 out that it was like from the chair. So 52:25 yeah, I started actually using a good 52:27 chair and now the back problems are 52:28 gone. So 52:29 >> yeah. 52:29 >> Yeah, 52:30 >> it's so true. I used to work in the oil 52:32 fil, but like I would sit I was in front 52:35 of a bunch of screens for 12 hours a day 52:36 and our chairs your a chair is rated by 52:39 hours you can sit in and some chairs are 52:41 a few hours. Herman Millers are actually 52:43 like 52:45 >> 18 hours something crazy. 52:46 >> They're like all day chairs and they 52:47 even have like 20 year guarantees and 52:49 like all that stuff. Is that crazy? 52:51 >> Dude, there were some big dudes I worked 52:53 with, like big dudes. And they we call 52:55 them chair assassins cuz if if you But 52:58 the Herman Millers, 53:00 >> they they wouldn't break them. They you 53:02 know they those they are good chairs. I 53:03 actually ended up buying one here a few 53:05 years ago and I'm I love it. Love it. 53:08 >> I I couldn't go back to like a normal 53:10 like every time I sit on like a normal 53:12 desk chair, I was like, "Oh my god, no. 53:14 This [laughter] I need I need my good 53:15 chair back." 53:16 >> No, I'll just stand. the really like the 53:19 like the the best investment you can do 53:21 before anything else is a good chair. I 53:22 think that's like the 53:23 >> I 100% believe that. All right, I want 53:25 to swap kind of over back to creator 53:27 side um um content side. So, you're 53:31 sitting around 65,000 subscribers. I 53:33 have 67, by the way. Um 53:35 >> Okay. All right. Time to upload. 53:37 >> You made a tweet like, "Hey, first 53:39 100K." I think you made this I don't 53:40 know how long ago. 53:41 >> Yeah, that was a year ago or something. 53:43 >> Let's I didn't even upload a video. 53:46 >> Yeah. [laughter] 53:47 I mean, look, besides this podcast that 53:49 my my content too is lacking. 53:51 >> Yeah. 53:52 >> But you you've built a very successful 53:54 channel, especially around, you know, a 53:56 niche that is very hard to grow. So, you 53:59 know, what is the thing about YouTube 54:00 growth that you wish someone had told 54:02 you, you know, maybe 3 years ago or when 54:04 you got started, you know, like anyone 54:06 listening right now maybe get some 54:08 advice on? 54:09 >> Probably you don't know anything. 54:10 >> Yeah. 54:11 >> Yeah. Uh the thing the the hardest part 54:13 about YouTube is probably to understand 54:15 what you're doing wrong. And there that 54:17 has a lot to do with like speaking, 54:18 editing. There's so many things that you 54:21 need to learn like the you just have to 54:23 try out stuff. Don't be so focused on 54:25 one thing. Try experimenting around and 54:28 especially do not try to copy someone 54:31 else. You can learn from other people, 54:32 but do not be someone else. Just be 54:34 yourself. I think that is the most 54:36 important part because people will call 54:38 you out for being fake and then they 54:39 they notice that and everybody's YouTube 54:42 first YouTube video sucks and it is 54:44 normal. Don't don't be ashamed of it. 54:45 Watch it, re-watch it, re-record it. It 54:48 is normal. Don't be ashamed of the first 54:49 videos. Like, I'm sure and I will have 54:52 both videos that we wish we never 54:54 published, but it is a part of the 54:56 learning experience. You learn it. And 54:57 the most important part is I think you 54:58 should also watch your videos. If you 55:00 cannot watch your videos, then you 55:01 shouldn't upload it. 55:02 >> Yeah. If you don't enjoy it yourself, 55:04 >> that's what I think about like when I'm 55:06 re-watching my videos, like maybe not 55:07 after they're published, but just like 55:09 if I'm start focusing on something else 55:10 while the video is playing, I'm like, 55:12 "Oh, that's not good. That's not a good 55:14 sign." like every someone else is going 55:15 to be not paying attention to this 55:17 video, right? 55:18 >> I mean, it depends on the video. If it's 55:19 like a tutorial, I can understand that. 55:21 But still, the point still stands. Yeah, 55:24 very true. 55:24 >> If you cannot watch your own video and 55:26 you cannot watch the full video, then 55:27 maybe it's not a good video. Yeah, 55:29 >> I think that's the same with UFN maps. 55:31 That's the kind of same if you do not 55:32 want to play your own maps, then maybe 55:34 the map is not that great. 55:36 >> Very true. Very true. You should, you 55:37 know, you should be loving and enjoying 55:39 your map. You should be wanting to play 55:40 it for sure. Um, for sure. And I think 55:42 that's a lot gets a lot of creators 55:44 because they start making genres they're 55:45 not very passionate about are trying to 55:48 get the trends and that shows through. 55:50 >> I think the best example that I have for 55:52 this is uh I don't know if you know 55:53 heavy blue. He has the blueed. Yeah. 55:56 >> He has Yeah. He has a 1 v one map and 55:58 this guy really like you cannot like 56:00 people say oh he has just a one v one 56:02 map. It's so easy like whatever whatever 56:03 but you cannot believe how much this guy 56:05 sits in his own map and plays his own 56:06 map and works on this one v one map. 56:08 Like people cannot fathom how much he 56:11 sits on that map and actually plays his 56:13 own map. Like if people would do it as 56:15 much as he would do, you would also have 56:16 successful maps. 56:17 >> Yeah. 56:17 >> He will find all the little things like 56:19 there's things that I don't even think 56:20 about when I play his map that he 56:22 doesn't like or that other people 56:24 couldn't like. He plays it so much and 56:26 you should do that. Well, if you don't 56:27 play your own map, it will not really 56:29 you cannot never find the the small 56:30 things. It is important. 56:32 >> Yeah. No, it's insanely good advice 56:34 because you're also if you're playing 56:36 your own maps, especially if you're 56:37 lucky enough to have players in it. 56:38 Yeah, 56:38 >> you're talking to those players too, 56:40 right? When you're playing, you're 56:41 getting that feedback and you're seeing 56:43 firsthand when you're making one v one 56:45 maps or maps that are, you know, it's 56:47 those hard those are maps that hard to 56:49 get popular on their own. You're it's 56:51 very competitive. So, you have to be 56:53 tight. 56:53 >> You have to get those little things. You 56:55 have to just like changing let's say 56:57 like one gun out, right? That could make 56:59 a whole thing, right? Just the one gun 57:01 which people don't enjoy, but they enjoy 57:03 other gun. Or like maybe there's like a 57:05 little clipping on the stairs or 57:06 whatever. Like all these little things 57:08 which you might not even consider, oh 57:09 yeah, it's just one v one map. You just 57:10 run up and build it make the map people 57:13 think like okay well okay this map 57:14 doesn't have this clipping issue then I 57:16 go on this map. 57:17 >> It's that simple and then they stick to 57:19 that map. 57:19 >> Yeah. Just making making their lives 57:21 easier really is all it is. I think make 57:24 making so people can understand your 57:25 game as simple as possible and then they 57:27 don't have these headaches or extra 57:28 things they got to do like they have to 57:29 do in another map. Right. Let us peek 57:31 forward a little bit because I know you 57:33 have some stuff cooking. um you know 57:35 you've been teasing some things big 57:36 towards the end of the year like without 57:38 burning the surprise you know how should 57:40 people be thinking about what's you know 57:42 you got coming up and what's cooking you 57:44 know can you give us any you know 57:45 insight into that 57:46 >> so let me let me think about so I don't 57:48 get sued 57:49 >> okay we have something together actually 57:51 with early imagined heavy blue and no 57:54 euen we're working on something which is 57:55 a brand project which I'm really excited 57:57 for because I don't really do a lot of 57:58 brand projects but this one is kind of 58:01 funny because I had the somewhat close 58:03 of the same project cancelled on me a 58:05 little bit earlier 58:07 >> which was really tough for me because we 58:09 worked on that for multiple months and 58:11 then it got cancelled midway through. So 58:13 yeah, it will be something which uses 58:14 the set physics that we talked earlier. 58:16 So uh 58:17 >> Ooh. Okay. 58:18 >> Yeah. Yeah, it will be it will be very 58:20 interesting for sure. 58:22 >> Okay. 58:22 >> Um I think that's all about I can say 58:24 about that. 58:25 >> Yeah. Yeah. You don't No, we ain't 58:26 ruining any NDAs here. But 58:28 >> no no no no more lawyers on my doorstep. 58:30 I don't [laughter] 58:32 >> Exactly. That's a strong team. You guys 58:35 got a You guys have made really great 58:37 stuff. The maps you guys have produced 58:39 are are top tier. So, very excited to 58:41 see what you got cooking up. I'm glad 58:42 you guys got some uh some some of that 58:44 brand money. 58:46 >> Sometimes it's it's you think that 58:48 brands always pay great or something. 58:50 Sometimes it's more about the the 58:52 experience with the brand, but they also 58:54 not all pay great. So, just because it's 58:56 a brand sometimes, guys, they don't pay 58:58 pay all great. Just Just going to leave 59:00 it. 59:01 >> For sure. Well, the original days of, 59:03 you know, the higher paying brands, I 59:05 think are are maybe gone, maybe they 59:07 come back. But yeah, I think just I love 59:09 the point you just said. I think that's 59:10 very important. It's more about, you 59:12 know, think about obviously you need to 59:14 be pay for your time. Think about like 59:16 growing your resume, right? Growing your 59:18 portfolio cuz as soon as you get a 59:21 brand, as soon as you get one brand 59:22 deal, it's a lot easier to get more, 59:24 right? Especially if you get metrics, 59:26 then it's then then you're 59:28 >> Yeah, that I think that's a very 59:29 important thing that you just don't want 59:30 to have the brand stacked up. You also 59:32 want to have like some backing with a 59:34 with a product that you put out. 59:36 >> Yeah, 59:36 >> I think that's something that a lot of 59:37 people I think sometimes like just leave 59:39 out there and just okay, yeah, we just 59:41 do the brand project and whatever we we 59:43 put something together and you know, 59:46 should the brand care about the rest? 59:47 >> Yeah, 59:47 >> you have to also give a good product. I 59:49 think that's that's important because 59:51 you don't want to really show off 59:52 something that is kind of mid. No, you 59:54 just want to show like your best work. 59:57 >> Yeah. Yeah. And that's hard because this 59:59 ecosystem doesn't reward that sometimes, 1:00:01 right? The best looking maps. But when 1:00:03 you work with brands, they have 1:00:05 guidelines, they have their IP they're 1:00:07 protecting. So you have to definitely 1:00:09 it's it's very a delicate balance 1:00:11 between performance 1:00:12 >> and they have their own vision sometimes 1:00:14 and it's it can clash. That's for sure. 1:00:16 >> Yes. So you know working with brands is 1:00:18 not easy but it's one of the I think 1:00:20 that's like a experience that everybody 1:00:22 should like get to kind of get more 1:00:24 professional helps a lot 1:00:26 >> uh to also see like the investors kind 1:00:29 of view or just like other people's kind 1:00:31 of view on gaming or uh on the product 1:00:34 the game whatever it is. No, very true. 1:00:36 And yeah, and I'm sure a lot of people 1:00:38 listening, you know, they're definitely 1:00:39 interested in like, you know, how do I 1:00:40 how do I get that or I mean, how do I 1:00:42 get brand deals and things like that? 1:00:44 And I think, you know, in in this 1:00:45 ecosystem using any lever you can to 1:00:47 make sure you're keeping yourself or 1:00:49 your studio running so you could take 1:00:51 more shots on goal. I mean, that's 1:00:52 really where where it comes down to. 1:00:54 >> I think the best thing how you can get 1:00:56 any commission at all is just put out 1:00:58 stuff on Twitter or 1:00:59 >> yeah, 1:01:00 >> have a popular map. But I think even the 1:01:02 Twitter one is is better. I think do the 1:01:04 Tom Jenk thing that he did is the 1:01:07 probably the best thing you can do. Just 1:01:08 show off your work. Like don't hide it 1:01:10 behind somewhere. Even if you think 1:01:12 somebody could steal it or whatever, 1:01:13 just show it off. It's not that deep. 1:01:15 Just show off your work and even if it's 1:01:17 not that great, you just improve. You 1:01:18 just get better and then you show more 1:01:20 and eventually people will contact you. 1:01:22 It's it's that easy actually. It just 1:01:24 show it off and people will contact you. 1:01:25 >> That's one of the strongest pieces of 1:01:27 advice on this this episode right there 1:01:29 is that that's just it. I think just 1:01:30 just publish. Just show it off. 1:01:32 >> Yep. And you're either going to get 1:01:34 feedback or you're going to get, "Oh my 1:01:36 gosh, that's sick. Can we work with 1:01:37 you?" [laughter] 1:01:38 >> Yeah, it's that easy. Like, actually, 1:01:40 just put it out. It is there's Don't be 1:01:43 ashamed of it. Even if you think it's 1:01:44 not that great or let's say, "Oh, Rich 1:01:46 Tunes put out something that is way 1:01:47 better than this." Like, it doesn't 1:01:49 matter. It actually doesn't matter. Like 1:01:51 there's so many UI like I put out, for 1:01:53 example, a couple of UIs recently. So, 1:01:55 but there's other people which put out 1:01:56 better UIs than me. But do I care? No. 1:01:59 It's just like I can do this. Look here. 1:02:01 Yeah, that is that simple 1:02:04 >> for sure. And honestly, too, and I've 1:02:05 said this on this podcast probably 1:02:07 multiple times, it's just like easier 1:02:08 tutorials actually will get you more 1:02:10 views. Like it it really will. Yep. 1:02:13 >> Like you don't you don't have to 1:02:14 reinvent the wheel, man. It it just just 1:02:17 do both, you know? I like to make I like 1:02:19 to do both. But yeah, don't don't 1:02:21 overthink it. Just publish. And I think 1:02:23 um you know 1:02:24 >> I'm going to be honest like if you just 1:02:26 can do the most basic stuff and put it 1:02:28 out on Twitter like show that you can do 1:02:30 like a basic UI then people will 1:02:33 automatically see that oh this guy can 1:02:35 do UI great I can hire him there like 1:02:38 because people look for you I get so 1:02:41 many requests I cannot like physically 1:02:42 take all of them I remember like there's 1:02:45 so many people which want want these 1:02:47 like things just put out stuff and you 1:02:49 people will contact you like it's like 1:02:52 >> it's like guaranteed basically 1:02:54 >> for sure for for sure a lot of people 1:02:56 you'll see asking for help with UI with 1:02:59 verse things that are really specialized 1:03:02 in this ecosystem and if you have though 1:03:04 like how I've seen I always see a new 1:03:06 tweet of like hey are you good with UI 1:03:08 we need you somebody to help with UI so 1:03:10 if you have that skill or maybe you you 1:03:12 know you can learn it like start being a 1:03:15 little more targeted and you really are 1:03:16 trying to get some work like that's kind 1:03:18 of where I would go to with more focus 1:03:20 so like if and that's what Richie 1:03:22 brought caught up. It's very very true. 1:03:23 There's a lot of people that need help 1:03:24 on certain aspects in UEFN. So, you 1:03:27 know, maybe you can pivot if you're if 1:03:29 you're not good at learn it and post 1:03:31 tutorials on it and you're going to get 1:03:33 a lot of work. I think that's also like 1:03:34 the best thing you can do anyways with 1:03:36 UFN. Focus on one thing and don't over 1:03:39 like do everything. Don't don't try to 1:03:41 put the creative 1.0 mindset into UFN. 1:03:44 That will not work. You will not learn 1:03:46 everything that is in UFN or in UE. That 1:03:49 is 1:03:49 >> just impossible to do. Focus on 1:03:51 materials. Focus on modeling, focus on 1:03:53 verse. There's so many different 1:03:54 branches and people need all of these 1:03:56 branches. Just focus on one, become very 1:03:58 good at it and then people will need 1:04:00 you. 1:04:00 >> Yeah. No, very true. You can't be a 1:04:02 generalist really in in in UF and 1:04:05 there's some people that can, right? You 1:04:06 it's possible. 1:04:07 >> No, it is. But it takes so much time and 1:04:09 especially for somebody that is looking 1:04:11 into UFN or is like kind of overwhelmed 1:04:13 maybe from the transition to from 1:04:14 creative to UFN. Don't don't try. Don't 1:04:17 even bother with everything. just focus 1:04:19 on one thing and just 1:04:20 >> for sure for sure I'm building, you 1:04:22 know, a few maps now and so and I had 1:04:25 that realization, you know, I'm just 1:04:26 like I I I'm I'm 1.0 days. I'm like, I'm 1:04:29 building this all myself just cuz I want 1:04:30 to learn everything. And I I got to a 1:04:32 point and I could figure it out, but it 1:04:35 would not be as good. It would not be as 1:04:37 good or look as good as the top maps. 1:04:38 And so I'm like this is cool, but like I 1:04:41 really when I publish my game, I want it 1:04:43 to look at least what if if it doesn't 1:04:45 do anything, I want to make sure it's 1:04:46 not because of I didn't launch it with 1:04:48 at least the basic features or the basic 1:04:50 pop quality UIs this or that that other 1:04:53 people have. So, you know, I I'm going 1:04:55 to hire out. I'm gonna get some of those 1:04:57 people in there to help me and and so 1:04:59 yeah, just just that it's it's a tough 1:05:01 pill to swallow sometimes for for me 1:05:03 because like I I love that like I built 1:05:06 all this myself. But yeah, UFN and and 1:05:09 if you're trying to compete, I think 1:05:10 there and it's not impossible and you 1:05:12 can do it, you can learn it. You don't 1:05:14 need to do that. But at a certain level, 1:05:16 you know, there's just VFX, there's 1:05:19 >> there's material, there's verse, there's 1:05:22 animations, there's 1:05:24 >> so much stuff. 1:05:25 >> You need you need some of the the the 1:05:26 guys that are really in it to help. So, 1:05:28 all right, brother. We've uh we're 1:05:30 almost wrapping up here, man. This has 1:05:31 been a fun, but this has been a fun one 1:05:32 for me, man. I'm so glad to get some of 1:05:34 your time. We don't we don't get enough 1:05:36 time to catch up like the old days, 1:05:38 >> dude. The good old What was it? What's 1:05:41 the other thing called? What is it 1:05:42 called? Your uh creative build things, 1:05:45 the challenges. 1:05:46 >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, there's the uh 1:05:47 creator showcases. 1:05:48 >> Yeah, the creator show. I remember we 1:05:50 did one together also back in the days 1:05:51 where we had a lot of fun there. I 1:05:53 remember that. 1:05:54 >> Dude, that was fun, man. Back in the old 1:05:56 days. Did you remember I had a stream 1:05:58 that was fixing creators maps and that's 1:06:00 >> Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I remember it. 1:06:02 >> Dude, that was a tough stream, man. I 1:06:04 like people would come in like my game's 1:06:07 broke or I can't figure this mechanic 1:06:09 and I would fix it. I go in and fix it. 1:06:11 It really helped me improve myself. But 1:06:14 also, there's some people that come in 1:06:15 and they just throw devices down. 1:06:18 They just act like 1:06:19 >> that unorganized and there's one trigger 1:06:21 on the half of the map and the other one 1:06:22 is there. Like, yeah, where's your 1:06:23 trigger? Like, oh 1:06:24 >> yeah, I love those. I still do the 1:06:25 creator showcase stream. I try to do 1:06:27 one. 1:06:27 >> I know. I saw. But it's it's you know, 1:06:30 it's hard, dude. You know, you get it. 1:06:32 Um, but yeah, man. Those those are the 1:06:34 good old days. And I I I still like I 1:06:37 just made a tweet. I really wish more 1:06:39 people would stream live building or 1:06:41 more more content in our space. Like I 1:06:43 just there's some people doing it and I 1:06:45 and I, you know, I I love that, but I I 1:06:47 generally think I I want to consume more 1:06:49 content. So the more more the marrier, 1:06:51 guys. All right, this one's a spicy one. 1:06:53 So give me your prediction for UFN over 1:06:56 the next 12 months and the one you'd bet 1:06:59 your creator code on. So it's it's a 1:07:01 real it's a real one. This one's hard. 1:07:03 This is a hard question. 1:07:04 >> Well, the great thing is I never promote 1:07:05 my credit code, so you can have it. 1:07:07 >> [laughter] 1:07:08 >> on in 12 months. Oh my god. I think it 1:07:11 really comes down if Epic can lock in. I 1:07:14 know there's obviously happened a lot 1:07:15 with like the the layoffs recently, so 1:07:17 there might be things that could delay 1:07:19 or whatever, but I think Epic just needs 1:07:21 to get a focus on something and not do 1:07:26 everything at once. I think that was 1:07:28 always a problem for Epic that they kind 1:07:30 of just halfbake a lot of stuff. So, for 1:07:32 example, when the custom items are 1:07:34 coming, not the not the ones that are 1:07:35 already out, but the custom weapons. And 1:07:37 I think that is a very important step 1:07:40 towards like getting new people into 1:07:42 EUN. And I really hope that they put all 1:07:44 their bags like everything into that and 1:07:46 not just have, you know, here a collab, 1:07:49 they're a collab, oh, we have this new 1:07:50 mode and this mode is canceled again. 1:07:52 >> Yeah. 1:07:53 >> Just focus on one thing. I know the epic 1:07:55 folks that actually work on these things 1:07:57 always try their best, but you know, 1:07:59 sometimes decisions from higher up maybe 1:08:01 ruin their work. I think it was the same 1:08:03 with the first person Noise. 1:08:06 >> So yeah, I just hope that Epic gets 1:08:08 straight now like with all the the 1:08:10 recent things that happened just kind of 1:08:12 like a refresh and full focus. It would 1:08:14 be hard. It would be hard for Epic. I'm 1:08:16 going to be honest. I think a lot of 1:08:17 people really see like the the downfall 1:08:20 of Epic right now, especially with the 1:08:22 reason. But I think personally right now 1:08:24 they're doing pretty good. Like 1:08:26 especially when they released the new 1:08:28 custom items, the inventory, I think the 1:08:30 the refreshed one that they had 2 weeks 1:08:33 later was really good. And that's what I 1:08:35 want to see more like the polished, not 1:08:37 the halfbaked ones. I want to see the 1:08:38 polished things. And I think if they 1:08:40 continue that and then thin client would 1:08:42 be great as well. We we are good for for 1:08:44 a good ride. 1:08:44 >> No, very very true. They got to lock in 1:08:46 and for lock in. Yeah, I think they know 1:08:48 that as well. It's not that I I think 1:08:50 they they know that. 1:08:51 >> Oh, they know. They know. they know and 1:08:52 we all I think we all know we we have a 1:08:54 road map. There's a lot of things on 1:08:55 that road map that we really need to see 1:08:57 hit and that's going to open up a lot 1:08:59 more for us. But yeah, 1:09:01 >> just custom weapons. I mean, if we can 1:09:03 make custom weapons, we can start our 1:09:04 own ballistics. I mean, there's another 1:09:06 part of that, right? We can start making 1:09:07 our own game our own weapons and and 1:09:10 those type of games. So, yeah, there's 1:09:11 there's some things that we've all again 1:09:13 we've been asking for before UFM 1:09:15 >> way longer like has been on the right 1:09:18 for five years, I think. But 1:09:20 >> I have faith. I do have faith in them. 1:09:21 They're going to lock in. They're going 1:09:22 to get get it going. I know there's this 1:09:24 whole UE6 thing coming. So, like how, 1:09:27 you know, 1:09:28 >> Yeah. 1:09:29 >> with less. 1:09:30 >> Yeah. How do how do you invest like we 1:09:33 saw this in 1.0, right? So, the fir that 1:09:36 we got announced creative 2.0 like a 1:09:39 year or two in creative 1.0 and they 1:09:42 kept pushing the date out. We didn't get 1:09:44 a lot of updates in 1.0 at the time and 1:09:46 bugs. But again, why would they invest 1:09:48 it if they're going to have this new 1:09:49 thing coming come out that maybe could 1:09:51 solve all this anyway? So, you know, I 1:09:54 don't I don't think they're going to not 1:09:55 invest in UEFN because I I imagine and I 1:09:58 have no idea how this works behind the 1:09:59 scenes. Like I think it's going to be 1:10:01 easier port maybe hopefully to UE6, you 1:10:03 know what I mean? Than like 1.0 to 1:10:05 Unreal Engine Light, you know, was what 1:10:07 I call UFN. So hopefully, you know, we 1:10:10 start we see some of those things in UFN 1:10:12 and UE6 is going to unlock even more for 1:10:15 us, right? So yeah, there's there's 1:10:17 >> I just hope they learned. I just hope 1:10:18 they learned from what they did with 1:10:20 Juven because there was obviously good 1:10:22 things and there was a lot of bad 1:10:23 things. 1:10:24 >> Yeah, 1:10:24 >> if they just take this learning 1:10:25 experience and put it into U6, I'm fully 1:10:27 down with that. I'm fine if they don't 1:10:29 give us great things in UFN as long as 1:10:32 they learn from that experience and 1:10:33 don't do the same mistake again. 1:10:35 >> Yeah. 1:10:35 >> And that that that would be great. I 1:10:37 mean, you like Fortnite is is doing 1:10:39 great even though the numbers are not 1:10:40 like super great, but they're still like 1:10:42 I saw like 14 million on PlayStation or 1:10:44 something. Oh yeah, 1:10:46 >> each week it is still one of the biggest 1:10:48 games and people like over like say 1:10:50 Fortnite is dying or whatever basically 1:10:53 but you know 1:10:54 >> but obviously um it is not great that uh 1:10:58 like so many things happened in the last 1:11:01 couple of 1:11:02 >> weeks and months that but I have faith 1:11:05 in Epic the end of the day there there's 1:11:07 great people working there and I trust 1:11:09 them. So, um, 1:11:10 >> yeah, I think same same and not just 1:11:13 because I, you know, I'm very involved 1:11:15 in this ecosystem. I I I do have faith. 1:11:17 I do have faith. 1:11:18 >> Otherwise, I wouldn't be here. I could 1:11:19 be in Warbucks. 1:11:20 >> Yeah. There we have there's options. And 1:11:22 there's you, you know, there's going to 1:11:24 be options with GTA 6 coming around the 1:11:26 corner, too, right? So, I mean, um, 1:11:29 again, they have the big I think they 1:11:31 have one of the biggest chances to, you 1:11:33 know, overtake Roblox or at least 1:11:35 compete with Roblox. They the only one 1:11:37 really doing it right now. Um, So, 1:11:40 >> which I don't understand at all. Like I 1:11:41 don't know why not many other companies 1:11:43 maybe they see see what happening in 1:11:45 Fortnite and it's like oh no we not 1:11:46 going to deal with that. Holy 1:11:48 >> well and we we built it's like the built 1:11:50 the the horse with cart in front of the 1:11:53 whatever that kind of whole deal because 1:11:54 we were BR right so it's like 1:11:57 >> you know and then now they added a a 1:11:59 mode that's the same you know Roblox was 1:12:01 always a mode that was all it ever was 1:12:03 right and it was all based on what 1:12:05 creators could create um in that 1:12:07 platform. So, it's it's definitely a 1:12:09 little different, but it worked. They 1:12:11 they got it to work. And yeah, I think a 1:12:13 lot I think we've seen it with some of 1:12:15 these games try to have a creator mode, 1:12:17 but the games just never got big enough, 1:12:19 I don't think, or they didn't support it 1:12:21 or not monetization for I don't know. 1:12:23 There's lots of different things that go 1:12:24 that are involved in it. But I guarantee 1:12:26 I think a lot of games now that come out 1:12:28 will probably have some sort of editor. 1:12:30 >> I'd be surprised if they don't. I think 1:12:32 this is a great way to end off the 1:12:33 episode, dude. We got we talked so much 1:12:36 about just everything. And dude, I love 1:12:38 to hear that you're still in this space, 1:12:40 man. And you helped out so many 1:12:41 creators. So many creators I guarantee 1:12:43 have started in this space because of 1:12:44 you. And so I'll say thank you in behalf 1:12:47 of all of them, bro. You're you're a 1:12:49 real one. 1:12:50 >> Thank you. 1:12:51 >> And I also love that you're just fun. 1:12:53 You're a good dude and you're fun and 1:12:55 and always always joking around. You 1:12:56 might that might not always come through 1:12:58 on your videos, but this he's a he's a 1:13:00 good hang. So, dude, honestly, thank you 1:13:02 for everything you've done for our 1:13:04 community. 1:13:04 >> Thank you, man. 1:13:05 >> Yeah. All right, man. Where can people 1:13:06 follow you? 1:13:07 >> You can follow me on Twitter. You see 1:13:08 some spicy tweets there. 1:13:10 >> Yeah, 1:13:10 >> you can technically also look on 1:13:12 YouTube, but it's kind of dry right now. 1:13:14 So, maybe maybe maybe we'll come there 1:13:15 at one point this year again. But yeah, 1:13:18 maybe on Twitter right now at 1:13:19 Richarduns. 1:13:20 >> You still have good UFN content? 1:13:23 >> Yeah, I mean to be fair, there's still 1:13:25 tutorials. So, 1:13:26 >> yeah, he still has good content you can 1:13:28 definitely learn from right now. So, all 1:13:30 his links will be in the description. Go 1:13:32 check him out. Go follow him. Probably 1:13:34 already are, but if you're not, go check 1:13:35 him out. And excited for your new game 1:13:37 coming out this year. I'll be watching. 1:13:40 And man, that's an episode. Thanks for 1:13:41 coming on, Richie. Thank you. Massive 1:13:43 thank you to Richie Tunes for finally 1:13:44 hopping on after all of these years of 1:13:47 us trying to make this episode happen. 1:13:49 If you are building maps right now, 1:13:51 running tutorials, or just trying to 1:13:52 make sense of where this UEFn ecosystem 1:13:55 is actually going next, his perspective 1:13:57 is one of the most valuable in this 1:13:59 scene. Please go follow him on X or on 1:14:01 YouTube. Those links are in the 1:14:02 description. He did say he's going to be 1:14:04 making new content this year or maybe 1:14:06 towards the end of the year. So, go 1:14:08 subscribe. And if you enjoyed this 1:14:10 episode, please do me a favor. All the 1:14:12 podcasts, subscribe on YouTube, hit that 1:14:14 like button. And if you are listening on 1:14:16 audio, leave a positive review on your 1:14:18 favorite podcast app. It generally helps 1:14:21 out more than you think. I will see you 1:14:22 in a Fortnite, which is in 2 weeks. And 1:14:25 remember, don't hate