Transcrição [EN]: How to Build a Premium Brand (without luck) ft. Ross Mackay

When you open the fridge and there's a cadence, you're like, "That's what we've created. It's $2 luxury. There's nothing in the world that's $2 luxury." That's Ross McKay, second time founder and the mind behind Cadence, [music] a $2 sports drink built like a luxury brand. After a successful exit from [music] his first company, Daring Foods, he's now moving faster and smarter to redefine what modern hydration looks like. >> Mo is the brand. It's the packaging. It's the liquid. Of course, this little white can is your marketing. The CMO of Coca-Cola said, "The best bar marketing is the white can." As a seasoned entrepreneur, Ross knows that to compete against the biggest brands in the world, he has to lean on his greatest advantage. >> Speed is fundamentally the most important trait you have as an early fun. Packaging A or B, A, go. Done. I will have in the space [music] of 5 minutes made decisions that we will see on shelf in 3 6 months. >> Ross isn't just fast. He's precise. He understands that brand is a superpower and every decision from liquid to the can is a marketing opportunity. >> No funer should care about distribution. I don't care how many stores you're in. I care about how much you turn in [music] store per day, per week, per minute. That is the heartbeat of any consumer business. In this episode, Ra shares what it really takes to build a breakout brand. From moving with relentless speed to crafting a brand so strong it's impossible to ignore. >> Whether you're a founder, marketer, or just brand obsessed, this one's a masterass in how to build a brand that leaves a legacy. >> Let's get into it. This is now your second 9-f figureure business that we're building. We want to reach over a billion dollars with Cadence. When someone's building their second brand like this, it's it's not luck. It's it's something that you've actually already done before. Walking into Cadence, what are you going to change about the first company? Like what are you taking into this second company? >> Just like my first company, uh this one definitely still started with a purpose. Like I think some great businesses are born out of like what keeps you up at night. Scratching an itch like it's not there in the market. Let me fix it. So I would say there's similarity there for cadence for me. You know, pretty avid endurance consumer. Didn't see the opportunity with electrolytes or you know performance supplements. Let me go and fix it myself. Some of the things that you know I'm doing differently or better this time is like huge emphasis on prioritization and saying no. You know, in the beginning of my first business, like every opportunity seems like the right decision and you kind of taking quick opportunities here, there left. Like for me now, I'm like taking a step back on everything and being like, if this doesn't equate to X or Y and I have kind of my levels of importance, whether it's brand, equity, value, revenue, or other, I'm very, very strict with time allocation. Whereas, again, my first business, like you'd catch me on a flight for a meeting, you catch me saying yes to every retail opportunity. whereas now I'm just a bit more methodical, a bit slower to, you know, say yes. I think um that's probably fundamentally one of the most important things that's allowed us to grow so quickly because we're just so focused on certain KPIs. >> Um but there's a million other things, but that's probably the number one thing. Saying no is important. >> Do you have an example of something that you said yes for your first company that you're like absolutely not will not do this? Don't even ask. Oh, so many. I think [laughter] two, one would probably be like capital raising. Um, okay. I think there's a really big difference between need and want. Need is need. Like I need it to survive and you take opportunities because fundamentally need is need. And then want is want. I'm moving into this business thankfully after a successful exit. Therefore, I do everything that I want to do. Um, so aren't forced to take, you know, capital from partners that I am aligned with. um in terms of mission and patience etc. And then also in retail. So I think when you scale into retail whereas you put this product versus my last business we went we're going a bit slower into retail. We're taking our time. We're making sure the business can scale in retail making sure the business is ready for scale which is like can you afford it can you make money etc. Whereas last time it was like hey x calls like take it all let's go like we'll figure it out later. So probably two things we're thinking about differently this time. I feel like I'd probably make a lot of those same mistakes because when you're first starting out, your first business, everything probably sounds so [ __ ] exciting. >> Yeah. Yeah. 100%. I also came from the UK. I'm not from here. So, like first time in America was 2019, December. This thing called CO happened. Um, frozen food kind of went through the roof. Everyone was queuing up at Whole Foods for like 3 days to buy whatever they could buy. So, like naturally the business progressed very very quickly. Um, so we are kind of operating this time in a bit more of a flat market where it's a fear of competition. Last time was just like I picked the right category at the right time in a place where frozen food was up thousand% year-over-year. So we didn't have the right fundamentals to build a business. It was like very glorified. >> When you go about raising money, there's obviously the pro of not raising money and being in full control. And then there's this other side where it's like if I want to reach this crazy goal, I want to have a billion-dollar brand, I want to sit with the Goliaths of this category. It's something that probably most people have to do to get capital. When you think about both of those sides of it, why did you end up raising money? Like instead of just saying like, uh, you know, I I'm going to bootstrap this and I'll grow it much slower or I'm just like curious about that. >> It's a it's a great question. Probably the most common question I get is like how to raise money. Um, you said one thing in the beginning, you know, keeping control of a business by not raising capital. You can still raise capital and keep control of your company. Um, I'm living proof of that. We've raised capital for cadence, but yeah, I still I'm this old B, you know, member of the board, still control majority of the business. So, I think there is uh an ability to do so. However, it comes being a second time founder now having leverage and being like basically, you know, like it's my terms or nothing. First time around it was you know need we needed to raise capital to scale the business. We had X opportunity. We couldn't afford to do it without capital. So there was a little bit of leverage. We found the right partner to fund us through a life cycle and then we continue to raise capital. The last business we raised a lot of money over about $150 million in the space of 11 months. With that does come losing control of your business because as a founder you're not focused on the certain things that you should be focused on. You're only focused on the capital. But with capital does come hooks and claws and terms that isolate you from the end goal which is control. Um and this time we've decided to do a small amount of financing just through strategic partners. I mean between me and my co-founder we funded the business and then we found people that we really [ __ ] with along the journey and being like hey we know we're going to turn this into the next X. We want you to be part of it. Less about like hey we really need money. Um can you please help us out? It's been like, "Hey, my sister, like my dad, like your friends, like we we'll let you into this because we know we're going to 100x your capital." Um, so slightly different this time. >> So round two, it's so much easier because you've already you already have the proof. But round one's very difficult to even keep any terms because they're like, "It's such a bet on you." Correct. Is that what I'm hearing? >> Yeah. There's little data. You know, you go out and raise money as a first-time funer. You've got you've done a million in your last eight months. So you're like couple, you know, 100 grand a month. um whatever it is. So there's very little data to show this is going to be a success. And every early stage VC or funer will bet on the person and potentially the team. So they're going to make a bet on like the category, the person, do they believe you are going to go and take my money, execute on it, and give your life towards the mission. And I think as a founder, you have to be extremely like you need to be able to sell the business extremely well. Like that is fundamentally communication, passion, ability to take calls and con convince people to join you on the mission is so important. I'm pretty bummed that we didn't get the call [laughter] before this. >> After after trying, I'm like, "Yeah, I'm bought in, dude." >> Dude, I would have invested. [laughter] >> Okay. You bring up an interesting thing that you're so bought in and you when you are raising money, you really have to live and breathe the brand and convince people to give you their money. You're super in the weeds of training and running and the culture of what Cadence stands for. And so when you were thinking about the product, how did you think about the positioning of how to position Cadence to stand out from the market and also when it comes to the branding side because the branding's impeccable. So I would love to know about positioning from the terms of how to stand out from the market from other beverages that may be similar to yours and then also like how to stand out from the branding perspective. Yeah, our mission is to fuel the goal oriented consumer. And to us that means thinking about the consumer pre- during or post exercise. For us, our primary exercise is running or cycling, endurance sport. So we took a step back there and ultimately we're a sports drink. We're a sports performance supplement company. Other brands in the space offering you similar minerals are more for lifestyle, for mom and pop, for hangovers. We are in terms of functionality, but we position the brand to be for that goal oriented consumer, the individual doing their first high rocks, their first half marathon, their first 10k, their first marathon, their first ultramarathon running across the country, whatever it may be. And we go in after them and we find brands that they aspire to wear or to be part of or to go to run clubs. And we identified that there was a huge gap. What we felt the biggest gap was for uh Gatorade 2.0. It's a sports drink. It's a sports drink where we are completely focused on the sporting occasion. So post exercise, pre-ex exercise. Whereas most drinks now are lifestyle. It's a lifestyle drink. You drink it with your sweet green or you drink it with your dinner or we directly built the brand the positioning to be to be built and and consumed after exercise which no one else was really thinking about. But yet with the adoption of running and run clubs and sport and high rocks, there was this influx of consumers who were moving their body more versus moving their body less. But they were then going to coffee shops or restaurants and buying a Diet Coke or an Lollipop or a Poppy. And we wanted to win them over at that moment in time. So we built a brand that was a sports drink, modern sports drink. We'd seen soda disrupted. We'd seen energy disrupted. We'd never seen hydration in the sporting category disrupted. You look at our can, we have a fuel guide on the can, when, objective, and key electrolytes. We're literally a fuel guide. There's there's there's menu of when to consume the product, and no one's ever done that before, for example. So, that's how we think about the category. That's how we think of the positioning. Branding was sketched on a notepad by myself. I love branding. I love creative. Um, don't get to spend as much time in it dayto-day because we have a team executing on it now. But um I think the only real moat you have as a CPG business and you can claim IP and we have IP and we formulate everything oursel is the brand. It's the community and it's the brand. Community is a buzz word and everyone's talking about it now. But um Mo is the brand. It's the packaging. It's the liquid. Of course, a lot of brands are white labelled. We don't do any white labeling. We don't just pick a product off the shelf and put it in our branded packaging. But for the most part, that is a good solution when you're earlier in business. But this little white can is your marketing. The CMO of Coca-Cola said the best form of marketing is the red can and we think about that the same. So when we see it, we see tag pictures, everyone's holding it down. It's like a trophy. >> When in the process does branding come into play? Are you first like I have this idea for the beverage, let's get the actual product down, then we can figure out branding or is it >> branding is pretty [ __ ] awesome and like fun to work on. So are you working on those simultane simultaneously? They're like, did the deck come first and then the formulation? >> It's funny, it's funny to work on like the logo and the tagline, but ultimately, you know, um it's a great question and in the past, I was more like, let's build the brand out and then let's find the formulation and so on. >> Um my wife has a business and I always tell her, get your liquid right or get your product right first because the brand's going to iterate so much when your contract manufacturer tells you you cannot do X. So for our argument sake, we want to do a zeroc calorie, zero sugar hydration drink that's super sporty and then you go to your manufacturer like we can't do that. It needs to have sugar in it. I don't know. Give you an example. So therefore the brand's going to change. So they have to work to they have to work together. You also have to show people things, you know, to get them excited. This is what it's going to look like. And also we were just talking about this in the in the car like momentum. Brand when you're building a brand, you're looking at logos. It gets you excited. Gets you gets that momentum going. Gets you thinking about things. So simultaneously for sure but I will just say is like your first iteration probably and where the brand ends up being are wildly different. So get your product right and the brand should evolve naturally. >> In the very beginning did you notice that traction? I mean I know you're partnered with George on it like he has a built-in group from represent and whatnot and like you know you're doing YouTube now which is amazing. I really like those vlogs. They're very like long form. Just getting to know you and like the the voice behind it. What was that like in those early days >> building content? >> Yeah. No, just like with building momentum around the brand with when you put it out to the world, were you surprised at where it was at? Did it gain traction very quickly? >> Um, yeah. I mean, in the beginning, we launched the brand in like a run event in London. Me and George flew out. I think there was like 600 people came through and like now there's run clubs every day and there's hundreds of people and sometimes less or more but 100% I think the thing we were just so excited about is the reaction to the liquid um and I think getting liquid to lips was you know super important early on but um yeah the momentum and the adoption of the brand over the last we've been going for about 400 days has been wild I mean I already we're I've surpassed where we are as a business and we will completely blow out the water of our last company in in in 16 to 18 months. >> Wow. >> Um so I think our partnerships with the likes of Bandit, with the likes of on with the you know last night we sponsored I think like 1,200 um people at a Nike event and I think our you know our um our pulse on the key partners in key cities around the states and abroad is really strong. So when we looked at, you know, how we could differentiate that we just talked about being a sports drink, like taking key partners and fueling them, which is part of our mission, it was really important. So yeah, we've done a great job at that. We have someone internally, Cam K, is just crushing that and uh it's definitely what differentiates us. >> Hope you're enjoying this episode. Real quick, want to let you know about an awesome free product that we got linked in the description. It's our personal brand kickstart. What's in it? >> Okay, we got five prompts for you. It's going to help you define your personal brand, get clarity, and start posting content that really resonates with your audience. >> It'll literally take you less than 10 minutes and it's been super apparent with all the guests that we've had on our show. They have really strong personal brands and it's allowed them to scale their businesses. So, go check it out. Top link. Let's keep it rolling. How much did you have to put in and George, like right off the bat, to just get the thing off the ground, get this in the hands of you guys? I'm just so curious. >> We started with like 120 grand each. >> Wow. Um >> and and does that does that just get you like one round? >> That got us like one round and then we've continued to find the business. >> Wow. >> Um but we are Yeah. Like that's that was the start and then we've continued to evolve it instead of going out to outside capital and raising from like you know VCs because my phone definitely not in no ego but our phones have definitely been going you know but I've just been like yeah it doesn't make sense for us right now. Like I'll either do it myself unless you give me really good terms and like Steven Bartlett's a good friend of mine. He invested in the company. Um, we've got a great fund out of Paris who have ties to the largest family in Europe. They're invested in the company. We haven't announced it because I think funding news is so glorified. The only thing that really matters is creating a great business. With great business comes great optionality, selling it, running it, doing what you want with it. So, that's all we're really focused on. But, we chose a beverage instead of a powder product when we launched the company. And it's a much higherQ, minimum order quantity. And therefore, if you want to launch a sashy version, the barrier to entry is we could string up a sashy brand in 15 minutes. You can launch it with like five grand, 10 grand, super low barrier to entry. >> What is that? >> Like a powdered version, >> you know, like a I don't want to name any brands, put them on, but like salt and a stick. >> Yes, >> they are like super low minimums, very cheap to make, and you know, put a logo, Tik Tok shop it, and just go for it. hack your way through the world and never build anything great and sustainable and world changing but maybe make some money whereas we wanted to go the hard route which is essentially beverage. Um we have other optionality in our portfolio sachets and gels and bars for the consumer but our core business is the beverage and we're a printed can. We make it at a large scale manufacturer minimums are at least we made 5 million cans this month >> you know. >> Wow. This month. >> Yeah. Five and a half million cans. When did you know you had something? Because I I think about you show up to the first run club or >> I could imagine you went through quite a few iterations of like getting the [ __ ] formula down, right? >> Yeah. >> So then you and George are trying it and you're like, "This is the one. Tastes great." Then you launch at this run club. You got 600 people. And I think that people could tell you, "Oh, this tastes great." >> But then never go out and like buy it again because they're like in front of you. they want to be nice and they're going to just be like, "Oh, this tastes good." You clearly have something that's like sticking and that works. And so, was there a moment where you were like, "People genuinely really like this and I know that we have some." >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, iteration wise, a year ago, we had a can, this is a 335 m uh 355 ml. A year ago, we had a can that was 250 ml made in the UK and a completely different liquid, different design a year ago. So we've iterated on formulation manufacturers we now make it somewhere else and the cans have evolved and that sounds like three simple things but that is yeah >> like reformulation and transferring that to a manufacturer and changing can supplier and artwork like it's a big lift that can take six months at a time while flying the plane. [snorts] So of course when we went to the run club like genuinely there's like fans of the brand and fans of George and everyone's loving it. It's great. And um the one thing I'll say about George is like he's a big critique of his own stuff. >> M >> and he'll never put out anything he doesn't believe in or or or love. And I think having that and not believing your own [ __ ] is really important. So we were pretty confident in the liquid when we tried it. It took several months to get there and I kind of led charge on that. But when we had the cans and we ran a marathon in Malibu with our buddy Aman, me and George and we finished it after and it was like this is really strong. It was the first time we'd really tried the production samples. Then we flew to UK, launched it. I think the main point of inflection where we had something was when we sold I took it to a retail buyer who didn't like sports drinks, hated our biggest competitor, was just like and I made her try it and she was like, "Hold on." So, and I was like, "Okay, if I I can sell to the runners, no problem. We're going to win them over. We got a couple million of them. that if I can then transcend it transcend this into the consumer who's eating drinking soda and make them switch I have a big category and energy I have a big category so that was the moment and that was only about I'd say eight months ago but we've only been going for like 50 months but it was it was really early on. What are some of these strategies to actually get someone to buy a drink multiple times? Because we were talking with someone from a very very large company that couldn't get people to buy their drink a second time. And we've seen it a lot in the beverage space where people might try you once, but that doesn't mean anything. It's like the repeat buyers. So, >> how do you go about getting someone to actually go out and purchase it a second time and like give it another go? >> Great. I like this question. Quite important. [laughter] >> [ __ ] yeah, >> dude. I really, dude, come on, brother. I really appreciate. >> You know what I mean? Um, >> I got a couple couple answers there. I think one is >> when do you take any supplements? >> I take creatine. I take Genko. I take a lot of like >> You're on Are you on a cycle right now? [laughter] >> You don't. >> I like I like barely in that chair. >> I like 315. I like Pure Encap. I like Pure Encapsulation, those guys. And I like the ones from uh I think like Magnesium and stuff like that. I like to listen to like Huberman and I like the little stack, man. I try I try that. >> Do any of those supplements make you feel instantaneously better? >> No, none of them. >> You just take them because you believe in the data. >> I believe in the data and I believe in what [laughter] >> that's let me run with this. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So, >> so you believe in the data and you understand that there's clinical studies or other and you believe in the thought leaders who are promoting the supplement. >> Correct. >> When you have a headache and you're drinking electrolyte, >> instantaneously better. It's one of the only minerals in the world that make you feel better. Instantaneous. I take greens powders. I take my boy Gruns is brand. I do I'll take I take creatine and I take other supplementation depending on like blood work, etc. And you take it because you trust it, but you really don't know. It's just in there and you're just like, "All right, [ __ ] it." And you can do blood work every 3 months, six months to identify key metrics, but if you don't feel good or you've just finished a run and you drink an electrolyte, mine or other, you feel better. So that helps with repeat purchase because when you feel better, you're going to try it. And if you run every day or you run three days a week or you're doing whatever training, therefore, you're going to start to implement it the way you implement implement coffee in the morning because you want to caffeine uptake. So for us, we see that as a big factor in if I can win over that consumer because they're feeling good after they work out and they have a can and they're like, "Wow, six, seven days a week, if not 10 times a week, they're going to take my can." >> And the cafe or I mean the the drink's a fun one because we were talking about just brands and we went out to Texas. We interviewed Christian Guzman who owns 3D Energy and like my drink of choice in the very morning is Yerba Mate. I like the like the orange exuberance drink. I have it every day. And the people that also have it, we talk in Instagram DM. And it's funny cuz it's like it's ritualistic. It's your coffee. It's whatever you drink in the morning. Like a drink is very ritualistic. And if you can get someone to really enjoy it, it's like it's a repeat on Amazon. Like I'm just I'm just on the subscribe. Sweat out. Boom. >> All in. That's our thing. Shout out to Christian's good homie. Know him know him well. I also think the the branding plays a part into that too. Like you guys have clearly built out story when it comes to cadence. Like it stands for something. >> But the brand like you guys [ __ ] nailed it. And like >> as I've kind of gotten into the world of running, there's like a certain swag that comes with [laughter] running and so >> UK swag bro. You don't got to hear that. It fits fits perfectly. >> You know what it's a champagne of It's a champagne of electrolytes. >> That's what like the kind of thing is right now. And thankfully someone else said that, no me. But [laughter] um you know when you go into like um you go into someone's house, you go into their bathroom, it's a tiny little studio apartment in Brooklyn and there's an ASOP candle burning in the in the bathroom. You're like, "Yo, I [ __ ] with this guy." [laughter] Like he's got the R. >> This guy is he's locked [clears throat] in. >> Like doesn't matter. Like mad on the floor like struggling. I get it. But he's got that ASOP burning in the bathroom. >> He's got the ASOP. >> Yeah. his finances are he's he's putting priority on the right thing. >> When you go open when you open the fridge and there's a cadence, you're like, >> "Yeah, >> that's what we've created." It's $2 luxury. There's nothing in the world that's $2 luxury. >> Okay. How How do we go about getting this to be two bucks and still actually make money? I I've I've done a lot. >> It's 250. >> Okay. 250. I've done I've done a lot of re I'm very intrigued by >> just the beverage space. >> I might want to get into it one day. And >> I know how difficult it is with the weight. We talked to a guy who was a huge investor in Liquid Death and he's made a lot of money in multiple ventures. It is he was explaining to us how difficult it was because liquid death originally started in Europe and then they were trying to get it to go over to the US and it was very difficult with shipping and all that good stuff. >> How do we end up making money on 250 and how how does that process come to be? How do you decide to play at $ 250 and not $4 like all these other brands? When we go to the store, it's ridiculous to buy a drink for $4. It's crazy. But that's how much they all cost now. And I I remember when you told me like it's 250. I'm like how? >> And you told us that was important to me. >> That was very important. >> Very important to me. Yeah. Because we don't think about well we think about one brand Gatorade and they are about 11 and a bit billion dollar business primarily hot filled plastic bottles and it's affects our pricing strategy or distribution strategy because if you want to go after that market not the beautiful little farmers market air1 fresh time I I mean those are customers that hopefully we'll do business with great business with but we isn't going to help us towards our mission. So when we think about distribution and price, we think about the big Gatorade monster that are doing 12 billion dollars of hydration a year. So and I also we talked about like David's Bar and how they built their distribution. They want to be everywhere bear as well. And everyone's like why aren't you going to like Whole Foods and then he was like because I'm going straight after the biggest competitor in the market. I want to be where Mars Bar are. So that's how I think about it. And therefore in order to achieve that mission we have to be as close within the pricing category of the B. We have to be as close with pricing the category. What that means is when I look left and right, if you're 25% outside of the category, i.e. everyone else is two and you're five, like chances are middle of America still care about that $3 delta. And in order to achieve scale, you have to win over people outside of this bubble we live in in LA and New York. So I think about that consumer, which is affecting my distribution strategy. February, we go Target, we go July, we go Walmart, we go CVS, Walgreens. like we're going blitz in distribution because as has have Gatorade and obviously they have the infrastructure of Pepsi and all the capital in the world but it affects that and I think price is such an important um metric in consuming purchasing decision and we're very focused on scale within the beverage how we achieve it um relationships with our co-man because when I rock up and say hey I ordered $27 million of cost in my last company a year I'm going to do that to you do and I'm going to scale this to be times 10. They're probably willing to open the door and probably give me good terms. Second of all, uh we have a blended portfolio of not only cans, we have sachets, bars, and gels that are higher margin product. So when I bund them together, it gives us a bl better blended margin. B2B we ship direct. So we load container loads on a truck and we ship them direct into distribution today, which helps middleman and people touching the product, which therefore eats away margin. So, a combination of strategy, contract manufacturers, and our supply chain have allowed us to price this at 250 and still make great margin. >> That's so interesting. Does it worry you at all to go into these six at once? Like, does that cross your mind at all? I know you've done it once with the big >> 100%. It's very expensive. >> Um, I don't care about distribution, and no founder should care about distribution. I don't care how many stores you're in. I care about how much you turn in store per day, per week, per minute. That's all that matters. is that that is the heartbeat of any consumer business. Units per store per week and dollars per store per week. If you are outside of the category, I you are like if my biggest competitor is performing at 10 units a week per store and I'm at one unit a week per store, they're going to take that off the shelf and they're going to put strawberry vanilla from that other brand right there and take me away. They don't care about brand. There's no loyalty in this [ __ ] world. Definitely not in retail. So if anyone thinks there is, it's like, "Oh, we have a cooler brand." They're like, they don't care. They care about money. It's a problem. >> [laughter] >> Show me the money >> because the person buying my product is Margaret. >> Yeah. >> Who lives in Minneapolis and she gets her bonus at Christmas on how well her shelf did. That's it. If I'm bringing her shelf down, just cuz we have a sick brand doesn't matter. So, she wants to build her portfolio on the shelf of her 50 brands of what's going to sell the most. So, you have to just drive traffic. So there's tactics we use and the team we've hired now um to help drive tactics which can be in store which stores don't really do anything for you. They give you shelf space. That's all they'll ever do for you. They might help you work on trade, promotional, pricing, two for five, little shelf tag, whatever. But everything you do from a brand perspective, from a ads perspective, from a community perspective, from an influ influencer perspective to create awareness and then drive that into retail is all you should really care about. And that's what we're focused on now. I want to touch on that, but I you guys are growing so fast and I want to I want to know how you think about speed as a founder. >> Yeah, it's all you've got. >> All you got >> all you got in the beginning, you're never going to win on capital or resources. You're only going to win on speed. um with discipline of course you know it's not frivolous execution but I am going to win on speed because I'll I made five decisions on a phone call outside before I came into this on like packaging A or B A go done we'll make go B flavor A or B artwork go like that would take six months for my competitor to do so I will have in the space of 5 minutes made decisions that we will see on shelf in 3 6 months so I think speed is fundamentally the most important um trait you have as an early stage founder >> cuz you were talking about when you guys were dialing in the formula and the packaging and all that kind of stuff. It's like it's a six-month process, potentially even longer. Knowing that, are you like, we got to get this [ __ ] done quicker because speed is my advantage. >> Yeah, 100%. I'm I have was super fortunate at my last company to be gifted a a mentor for a short period of time, gentleman um who has an amazing book. It's called Amp It Up. If you're ever an early stage founder and you're looking for like leadership um kind of advice, Frank Slutman, he has an amazing book, Amp It Up, and he talks about like just a relentless execution on the mission. And there should be zero light between you and the mission. And as you scale the business and you hire people, don't let those individuals who frankly, and I love my team, will never care as much as you. And what happens is people often see it as a job and it's your job to make them feel 13t tall and change that mentality. But the reality is is they can turn off. You cannot as a founder. So sometimes they bring the energy down a notch or two and then you become okay like okay I believe them because he was really successful at his last job and now he works for me and he knows better than me because he's an operational he's a killer in operations and she's an operational she's a sales executor and what do I know because I'm just a founder with a vision and they say no we got to do it and you bring it down and your job is to be like nope no when can I get that 10 days from now well can I get it in two days and then maybe you get it in four days but at least you cut off six days. So like as a founder your only real job in the beginning is to set the vision for the company, finance the company if you need to yourself or other and hire the best [ __ ] team in the world. Like that's all you should really focus on. Is it possible as you be turn into this behemoth that you're thinking you can be that the speed stays >> well >> or is it inevitably is it inevitably >> when you say behemoth $100 million is still a rounding error. >> I'm going I'm going with a B. I want to be a >> valuation or revenue. >> I want a rev baby. I want a B rev. [laughter] Okay. >> Absolutely not. >> I believe it. I believe you can do it. >> If you had a billion in revenue then >> there's too many. Is there just so many people? >> I've never been there. Okay. Honestly, I don't know. Um >> we'll tap in in a year. Yeah. Yeah. >> But okay. Just as you grow with speed, it is it slowly as you've getting 10. Okay. It's slowly >> more cooks in the kitchen. >> More cooks in the kitchen. And again, like everything within reason. When I say speed, it's not like we're just [ __ ] throwing [ __ ] [laughter] on the wall. Let's go. >> 12 new cans. >> Ship it. >> Yeah. [laughter] But we have stage gates and processes and we have amazing individuals who like tighten the reigns. I call her the glue. Uh >> can I get another one of these? Can we get another one? >> Have you tried cream soda? >> I would love to try cream soda. >> Are you going to be over are you going to be over >> Dude, I'm going to go I'm going to be working out >> 40 a day. You brought up hiring and so when it comes to hiring, obviously you want to bring on a kick-ass team, but like what was that first key hire you guys brought on? And what do you look for when you bring on people to the cadence team? >> Yeah, we we kind of went from like 1 to 10 instead of like 1 to two to two to four to five to seven. I was kind of like identifying what I wanted. that I brought on a lot of people from my previous company uh that I wanted to go to war again with and I just called them up and I was like hey I'm doing this again let's [ __ ] rock and like already [snorts] underwrote their skill set was written five years because I worked with them for a while uh my cousin was my first employee at my last company and he was my technically my first employee at this company as well he runs operations and finance which is kind of important um [laughter] because I'm [ __ ] useless at that um joking but I think like personality traits You know, there's a few that we think about. We don't have like this HR booklet and like values document yet. Like we just we're just running this thing like kind of from like a bunch of people that really care about the mission and want to do very well in life. Honestly, >> we also don't have an HR department. >> Yeah. HR. >> You want an HR brother? [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. I'm the same. Um >> I think like the one thing which we care a lot about is like selfarters. Like I think your job as a founder, I said it earlier, is like to make people feel 13t tall and give them a sandbox that allows them to feel important in >> um driving impact towards the mission. There's nothing worse. People talk about, okay, what makes you excited about work? And you're [ __ ] lying. Sorry for swearing so much. I'm from Scotland, so it's kind of like here. >> If you don't care about financial goals, like I don't believe you. If you're like, oh, you know, I'm just kind of focused on the mission. I'm like, how are you going to pay rent? Because it's kind of important. So, I truly believe that my job is to put people in a different position in life if they give me the best they got. And like, I'll show you what the best you got is because my pace is so like I'm so on it. I can see people when I'm on a call. I'm like, "All right, what's your problem?" Like, "What's the problem you're solving? Let's talk about it." We'll spend eight hours screens up and I'm like, "Okay, what's next?" And I can see their face light up being like, "Oh, this is what the pace looks like." Like, this is what it should look like. And I'm like, "Okay, what's tomorrow?" tomorrow we go 7:00 a.m. get on the call. Let's go for the next thing. I'm like literally there in front of them working through problems. So I think your job as a founder is also like show people what greatness looks like. Um >> where does that come from? >> Was that is there something from your childhood that you experienced or is it just you've always had that like >> I'mma [ __ ] go get this [ __ ] or is there is there something that like happened as a kid that you were that really brought that drive into you or you just kind of naturally born with it? >> I was kind of lazy honestly. Like really? Yeah. Yeah, I played sport. I was very talented at tennis, but like didn't really care. But like I'd be like six love up, five love up and like thinking about my dinner, you know? And I played in Spain. I played for my country and like but I just didn't really care. And then I was like okay at school. I dropped out of college after like a year. Um went on my own crazy journey and like here I am. But um I don't know. I honestly don't know. I think I just similar to you guys like potentially was exposed to greatness and great people and understanding there's pattern recognition and like I need to be like that. I don't find don't need a lot of motivation to get up and run anymore for um I don't need a lot of motivation to get up and like work 12-hour days. Um so I don't know where it's come from. Wasn't some book or some quote. I just think that I have a specific goal in life and I understand by looking around me that the people who have achieved the goals that I personally have in life have one to three traits and one of them is like an obsession around uh work rate like they just work hard they work at such a level whereas like okay if you're doing that and you're doing that and you're there then chances are I probably need to do the same and then now over the last five years I've instilled that >> on the topic of that because I've been watching a lot of your YouTube stuff and I've also talked to Cole about this and it's something I really admire about you about the way you operate with your family >> and your daughter and Cole is like I love Ross. >> It can get kind of frustrating because like the only way we'll hang out is if we're going on a [ __ ] run and sometimes he's just [ __ ] doubling the pace the last two miles cuz he needs to make it home because you have a non-negotiable of I'm gonna see my daughter wake up every morning. >> Yeah. as someone who's trying to build a giant [ __ ] company, but you prioritize your family. How do you set those boundaries in your business where you could work 12 to 16 hours a day, but you've set those boundaries for yourself where you have non-negotiables when it comes to your family and your daughter? >> Yeah, I remember that run a couple weeks ago with Cole. We're [laughter] like, we're on Main Street. Were you there? >> We're on Main Street. And I'm like, "Bro, we're gonna we're gonna have to hit some six-inute miles on the way home." He's like, "What are you talking?" Like, "Could I wake up my daughter?" Non-negotiable. I wake up my daughter every weekend when she wakes up. I wanted to see her father. Um because Monday to Friday, I'm a little bit busier with day job and I travel a lot. Um like I'm on a flight tonight, you know, like I won't put her to bed tonight. That's like a a big thing for me. But I say it's my goal, not theirs. Um that's what I say to myself. Like my goal is my time. So, if I'm going to do something that is as selfish as running for four hours, it better be on my time. >> Um, so the goals I have outside of business, which are training, for example, then I make sure that they don't need to affect everyone else around me because that's that's selfish. Um, so the hours of 4 to 7 are called that hours. Um, the hours of 7:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. are are my why I spend with my wife. So, it's a great relationship that I have with my wife and she understands the mission. and she was there the day I came up with the pretty much the name for my first company. Um, she helped me pack the boxes. Um, so she understands what I'm doing now and you know within reason we've all benefited from it. Um, but I want to be dad of the year, not athlete of the year, you know, that's my goal. >> I love that. >> There was something I also saw you've said, you said on a pod, you've said this in your vlogs, how as a founder, it's really important to be like neutral and never be too high or never be too low. And it's funny because I was working with the Lakers during our playoff run. I remember LeBron would say this in the locker room. He'd be like, "Never too high, never too low. No matter if we're up a lot, we need to be even kiltered. No matter if we're down a lot, we don't need to be down on ourselves. We need to keep even kiltered." And I noticed you said a very similar quote like in your vlog about how there might be a fire that day, but it's not my job to be like reactionary to this fire. It's my job to figure out how to put this fire out and not like bring that to the rest of the team. >> 100%. >> How how do you do that? And what's that look like in actual practicality being a founder in a company that's growing this fast? >> Mhm. I think um yeah, I said that a couple days ago and it was like real. It was very raw. Like that that week I had landed our biggest honestly a company changing deal. We we landed 4,000 stores probably a multiple eight figure deal on our first order. It was like close to nine figure over two years. It was a massive deal on Monday. On by Thursday, I was like, the company's it's gone. Like I'm falling out with this guy. Cons are falling off a truck. Like renegotiating terms that are going to affect like it was a it was it's like so the highs are so high and the highs the lows are so low that if you are affected by them, you're just going to tread water, you know? Honestly, I think there's nothing wrong with feeling them. I think feeling is super important, but I have also become a little bit numb to it. I'll be honest, which makes me judge myself sometimes. I'm like, "Wow, am I just like, do I care about anything anymore?" Like, you could tell me we're going to land a $50 million contract. And I'm like, "All right." Cuz I expect that, honestly. Like, that's the expectations I have on the business and the people, and then if things go wrong, I'm like, "I've solved just about every problem. Everything is solvable." So, like my buddy Chris messaged me being like, "I disagree." and he was one of the founders of Bomb Bomb Energy and Raw and he's like I disagree. You need to feel absolutely everything and let it like soak in but the issue is for me personally as like the head of the company everyone looks to me for where we're going and if I'm stressed out then sure as hell the first time operations manager is going to be like pretty stressed out too. So, I think um I've just been through so much. Um any second time founder, even any first- time founder who's been through five, six years of building consumer brand has probably dealt with just about everything. Uh in the beginning, did I remember crying in my wife's apartment uh at the time, girlfriend that my packaging had a spelling mistake, like crying. I was like, the whole company's gone. [laughter] And now it's like I'll print 5 million cans with a with a Is there a small line error on your cola? There is. >> Yeah, there you go. >> See, right under zero. >> That would have that, you know, like who cares? >> I've made so many millions of those, but like I would >> Oh, wow. And there's not >> there's not on that. >> Huh? >> Yeah. >> And I bet you if you didn't point it out, I I would notice, you know, I'm on the production line. Like, what the [ __ ] I know company's going to fail. >> Whereas like now you're just like, dude, like next, you know? So, it just comes with time. It's like anything, you know? I'm Kevlar. Kevlar, bro. Kevlar sit on all the time. >> That's awesome. Um you told us you're going from you're being you're in 2,000 stores right now, but you're going to be scaling to 50,000. >> Yeah. So, um we're in um we're in all of the vitamin shops nationwide. We're in just about every GNC nationwide with our cans depending on flavor and some of our ready to mix products. And then uh we have a huge launch in February which is announced here for the first time is Target launching in Target. Um beside you know different hydration beverages. And then as you think about the rest of the year you're going to find us in CVS, Walgreens nationwide. You're going to find us in Walmart in July in all stores um HAB Publix. I mean honestly the number I'm not sure about. Distribution points definitely like TDP is 40,000 for sure. So, probably like 8 to 10,000 stores. >> Yeah, that's insane. You told us that Cadence is built for scale. >> The only way you're able to do that kind of distribution is if you're built for scale. So, how have you set up Cadence to be a brand that is built for scale? >> You need economics is the first thing. So, um what allows a business to scale is if you can afford it, one of the things. So, if everything else is clicking, and we'll talk about that in a second, then ex retailer comes along and wants to order 5 million cans, you have to be able to make it for less than you're selling it for. Sounds like a very basic thing, but some people don't get that right. And then you have to factor in all the other costs of doing business with a retailer, promotions, trade, freight, you know, anything else. Um, so we've got that right. We know that if we make it for X, I have the ability with my sales team where they can basically go and say if this opportunity is right for the brand and if we feel like we can sell units per store per week, i.e. do we think our shopper is there? Do we think our consumer is going to that location? For example, you know, arguably you could say that my shopper isn't at Walmart. I would disagree because I think my shopper is going to buy hydration there from another brand. The data is showing me that the buyer's telling me I'm selling a billion dollars of liquid IV last 52 weeks. My job now is to say, "Okay, marketing team, let's make sure we win over that consumer and swap them going from X to Y." Because there's already money being spent in that store, just not on me. So, I need to bring in a new consumer or convert a customer. And in the life cycle of a brand, you probably want to bring in an incremental customer first. So today you might not go to Target, but then if I am the at my first distribution point is in Target and you're an advocate for the brand and it's kind of annoying to order a can on my website. 5day shipping, kind of expensive. You need to order 12 as a minimum. You're now going to go to Target. So I'm going to bring an incremental customer into the into the store. If I can multiply that scale, it's going to add like unit dollars per store per week to the set. And Margaret in Minneapolis is going to be pretty happy with me. He's going to expand my distribution, add in a new flavor. Boom. Next. The other thing is is brand. So, you have to be able to have the right and it's kind of an chicken and egg because with distribution comes awareness, right? Because everyone, you know, an end cap in in Target like the end situation where you see these brand displays get us about 40 to 70 million people walk past it a quarter. >> Wow. Find me a shopper tactic hacker guy on Twitter that can get me 40 to 70 million organic views a month. >> That's crazy. Max was telling Max Ching was telling us all about the uh when he got into Target they're like Max would really like you to be at the end cap. He goes super excited about that. And they're like it's going to be an extra 50,000 [laughter] per store. He's like more. Yeah. More. More >> a fit out for an endcap if it's done right. It can be 500 bucks. We're doing 4,000 endcaps in July. >> Like $3 million of fit out fees. >> Wow. Wow. >> Bit out fees >> and um that's just kind of price or rice. You're just like I want to play ball game but it's like al fata into like okay when you when you look at the opportunity in a store I don't know how tactical want to go into it but I'm basically saying okay buyer Margaret what is my competition selling every single week and she'll give you that data. So I know that this can if I forecast it will sell eight units a week per store multiplied by 4,000 stores. I have four SKs. There'll be some cannibalization because people are not going to buy all four. they're going to buy, you know, opt in to buy one or two maybe and then I'm going to build a business case for that business. So, how much am I going to potentially achieve from a base case and then upside case if this goes really well and freaking Joe Rogan starts to talk about it, I'm going to have a higher base case, but I build my marketing spend and what I can afford to do based on my base. And I'll do that over, let's say, a 12-month period. So, I know the business is going to bring me in 3 million of gross sales based on my wholesale price into distribution. And I'm going to probably spend around 20% trade. I'm going to take that 3 million, spend 20% of that, 600 grand on building the awareness. So all the influencers going into Target and like come with me as I buy my first hydration brand at Target and we're going to 5,000 of those and then we're going to do all sorts of [ __ ] So yeah. >> So when you go into you mentioned a lot of different stores, there's there's CVS, there's HB, right? Is there a chance that one of them doesn't do what you think it could do, right? And then what what happens with that? Do you lose that relationship if it doesn't sell very well? Do they put you to the bottom and then slowly you're like, "Fuck, we didn't make it in this store. We didn't do what we were supposed to do and now we got to focus on this other one." Like, what is that like? >> Yeah, 100%. It is definitely >> um has happened to us before. I've lost one account in my last business. We weren't performing right. Looking back at it, my consumer wasn't there. We took the opportunity, but you know, we didn't invest into it and my customer wasn't there. >> As I think about cadence, you know, we're probably taking on a lot of C. you can probably take on one to two retailers a year. I don't know what the number is. There'll be someone who's smarter than me who'll tell us. Um whereas I'm also I'm a I'm a believer that this category is expanding so quickly. I mean you turn on your phone today there's hydration hydration hydration hydration creatine creating creatine hydration hydration. And like I have an early mover advantage with a great liquid, great relationships, and wellunded business where I can kind of feel that I can just go at it and fix it as I build, you know? And that's different. If I'm entering the coconut water market, like chances are it's a little bit harder for me right now. There's brands that are doing tens of millions of dollars a week in category, Ziko, etc., uh, cult. And um you know, you probably have to be more methodical because you're not going to displace a brand that's doing well. There's not really that many hydration carbonated beverages that taste like your favorite soda right now. So, we kind of doing something unique and we have the ability to basically take that business, build a team around it, and make sure we execute. But the point is, yes, it's nervous. It's definitely nervous. Um so, that's where it comes down to building the brand and the marketing. Does your pitch change as you go to different retailers or is it relatively the same? >> You know, within reason, eight, eight out of 10 is the same spiel. Um, you know, most retailers want to know a little bit of how you're going to add incrementality to the category. They've got Gatorade willing to pay them >> to not have you in. >> Yeah. Honestly, >> um, Wow. >> Gatorade is getting nervous. >> Yeah. We call yourself a midgeter. >> Uhhuh. You know, you take a little bit off that, >> you know, like like a like we're not a shark, right? We're a [ __ ] bite mosquito. Is that what you call it? >> Mosquito. >> You know, you're in the room and there's like [ __ ] you know, you know, like that's what we are, you know. >> Um, and there's obviously brands that have become sharks like Lollipop and the guys at Poppy and they've started to become a threat, so they get acquired. Um, we're definitely not a threat to anyone right now, but um, you know, yeah, we we have to build you have to build a strong uh, you have to build a strong presentation for a retailer. The number one thing that you can do for a retailer to get them excited to bring your product in is data. So if you launch at the local shop, you say, "Well, we are out selling this brand that you already have in my local shop." Ah, okay. That's pretty cool. And you magnify that now where I turn around and say, "Hey, in vitamin shop, I'm performing better than most of the major brands in those fridges, the brands that are owned by the big guys, Celsius, etc." So, I turned around to the retailers and I say, "I'm the my mel my melonberry in GNC is the third best selling out of 40 brands. My citrus and cola in the vitamin shop is top 10 out of 50 brands." So then I'm taking that data and I'm turning around to buyer X Margaret and I'm saying you don't have this, you know, and I'm in those stores, they're making all this money. You want some of that too? Okay, we'll bring you in. >> She doesn't compete with Vitamin Shop. It's not like you're sitting there like I'm going to go to Ralph or Vitamin Shop. >> No, >> they're completely different consumers and they're completely different decisions. So you try and add value. And then also the last thing I'll say is you try and give consu retailers different opportunities, case sizes, flavors, something you don't have that they don't have, etc. Um, >> so it's very it was very conscious to I I mean like I I can't really think of many melonberry things I've ever had, honestly. Like can't really think of many things. >> That's because we're like gelato, not ice cream. >> Talk to them now. >> Yeah. >> [ __ ] yeah. Luxury. >> They're luxury. We're $2 luxury. I like that, man. >> Yeah, that that's How conscious was that? Like it's kind of like a tagline like we are $250. We're 250 luxury. >> Yeah. >> This can feels premium as [ __ ] The branding is on point. >> You feel I feel expensive right now. >> I'm feeling Dude, I'm walk I'm going to walk through the airport on Thursday. People are going to be asking >> where'd you get that? I'm going to might sneak this through TSA. Yeah. >> They might not even know. >> I mean, it's meme culture, right? You know the white monster memes. >> Like you see a guy in a white monster, you know what he is. You're like, you know what? I used to drink that [ __ ] in college. >> Yeah, I nothing. I mean, I'll crush a white monster. [laughter] They got nothing to go >> when I'm Whatever When I'm in the UK, a white style head's different, dude. They don't have They don't have other stuff. >> But like you I'm obsessed with consumer. Obsessed. I know what that guy pays for rent. I know what he had for dinner. >> Like it says so much about you. Um what you drink, you know? Like the guy that drinks the 42 on ice >> or [clears throat] the guy that's drinking the Gorilla Mine. I'm like, whoa, man. >> But it's true, right? >> Holy [laughter] [ __ ] dude. Yeah. Yeah, the bang energy. I'm like, "Brother, hey, keep it chill, man. Be nice to the guy that's freaking [laughter] the bang, dude." >> But like, jokingly, you know where he trains, you know what his split is. >> You just know when you see a guy or girl, cuz we have a really strong female audience, which I think is part of the strategy here. >> And you know, >> very know this is unisex. 100%. You see those other drink cans and >> you don't want to be carrying it. >> We get like 200 to 250 tag pictures a day on social. We're a year old. Dude, y'all are like road man. >> Was it bumped up with the with New York? >> Oh, New York was a crazy I had I didn't go actually because the first question you asked about what I'm focused on. I just don't do distraction. Uh I'm not going to go because it's too busy. It's too much noise >> and I'm not the guy. Like I got my team like they're going to be I'm not I don't need to be at all that Razimat and the run clubs and I I like we do it. But like I got Cam, I got Alex, I got Herk, I got the squad there. will will show up. Handsome [ __ ] like you know like I'm I'm I'm in the P&L. I'm like figuring this can printing issue out. So I didn't go cuz it's like a bit of a distraction. It was one of the busiest weeks for us as a company. >> You bring up data though and how important that is when you're pitching retailers. Is there something that is almost harder to track but makes you feel or believe that you're on the right track? for example, getting tagged in an Instagram post or like seeing your product on a flatlay for the marathon as opposed to some like another company. >> Yeah, for sure. I mean, I had the mission I used X a lot and I said like a year ago that I wasn't reposting anyone who used our first product can because I could see too many other brands on the flatly. >> Fast forward New York. It was just like dude the roads were covered in cadence like covered. I got people messaging me like, "What the hell happened?" And flatlays all over being like, "Gel, bar, sachet, bottle, can." It was kind of sick. >> Um, you know, I'm not going to go around saying like, "We were 250 tags this day. Like, buy our business." You know, like, but anyone who's smart enough where you're who you're selling that to is primarily probably an investor. >> Sure. >> And you're like, "We're building this community. We're building a cult. You know, we got like 40 50 people with the daily discipline tattoo. Daily discipline is our tagline. >> Wow. >> It's kind of our version of like another brand down in Austin that have their tagline. Um it's tattooed on my arm here and I think we put a tweet being like anyone who has it I'll fuel them for a year and we got like 60 60 65 people who had the tattoo. So like early indicators that you're creating a movement and a lifestyle brand that people want to be associated to. >> That is so so interesting. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. That's that's like um that's the hardest thing to do is like build a cult. Like you're building a move >> and you can't fake it, dude. Like I just like, you know, I just we don't like we you don't we don't know each other that well, but like >> we really like George and like me and there's nothing fake about it, you know? Like you know, we don't have to try that hard. We really do it. Like he he called me and been like, "Bro, I'm running at like 350 this morning." I'm like, "Bro, that's too early." Like I'm going to go at 450. So like this concept of like on a mission, daily discipline, guys. Now, I think the modern influencer, you know, is um inspiring through different means, whereas before it was like who's partying the hardest and like who's popping the biggest bottles at the club and living in Miami. And now when you think about who you're influenced by, like I'm influenced by the dad who's got a couple hundred mil in the bank and he's got shredded abs and a hot wife. >> Like those are the >> And some drip >> and some [laughter] drip. True, dude. I'm sorry to sound like that guy, but when I like turn like times have changed. I think people are influenced by different things. So when I think about how we've built the community, it's because we you know I think a fundamental the times have shifted between what the young man or woman want in their life and it is fitness and it's hydration and it's performance and it's aspiration. Being fit is also I think a sign that someone is it's disciplined someone that someone that cares they give a [ __ ] There's like it is not easy to be fit. There's a requirement there of like you when you when you see someone that is fit, >> that's someone you want to do business with. That's someone you want your corner. You're like, I know that this person goes the extra mile with like little details and >> dues have been paid >> 100%. >> It's the fair sport in the world. >> Your body other than people who have health issues eradicate that from the conversation. I don't want to get cancelled. >> Um but like factually speaking, how you look is >> economic circumstances. I understand that. Yeah, >> me and you, same everything. >> Like we have the same opportunities. I can go for a run, you can go for a run, we can eat chicken, rice, whatever you want to eat in your life, count your calories. Like it's a pretty fair, it's not opinion based sport. Business is an opinion based sport. You like that, you don't. You're a decision maker. You're not. I go up, I go down. Whereas like how you look generally is a pretty even keel. It's a pretty even sport. >> Um, and I like I like those odds where you can control things. When you think about your marketing though, I want to get into like because we've talked about the branding of the actual can. >> Yeah. >> The branding of Cadence itself and the marketing, >> your guys' campaigns are [ __ ] next level. Like the actual content is >> second to none. How do you think about that from I know you said you're like not crazy in the weeds of it, but like when it comes to doing new campaigns, launching new products, like the content that you guys are putting out on social media, your website, how do you think about that to allow you to create a cultlike audience and a culture around your brand? >> Yeah, I would say I I definitely spend uh more time than I should on it. I love it. It's like my favorite part of the business. And I work closely with Alex, um, who I have to give most of the credit for. Alex always, I mean, Alex Lopez, sorry. Um, who's our creative director and has a great pulse on, you know, where we want to take the vision of the brand. I think what's also important is I work so closely with him so he can soak up where my vision is for the brand. And I think any people who have a pair like that, you have to work simultaneously because you have to work in tandem. We do a lot of storytelling. Um, I think in a world of maximalism and consumerism where everyone's trying to sell you everything on an ad, on a discount, on AI generated like best in the world. We've kind of taken a different approach and we think that inspiration, aspiration comes from storytelling. For us, it was through athletes, individuals running um the fastest marathons in the world, individuals running across the country. And what's the brand who did that the best? Red Bull. There's no pictures of their can. Everyone talks about that on their social media. They have people jumping out of planes or off buildings or BMX iss 500 flips, you know, whatever. And we took a lot of inspiration from that and say, okay, let's step away from the product. Let's look at who we want to appeal to and what they're interested in. My consumer wants to watch Will Gu run across Australia. And then he fuels with cadence. So naturally, we integrate product but through storytelling. And that's always been kind of how we wanted to position the brand front and forward that we really don't have a lot of pictures of our Canon on Instagram. Um, not specifically because we won't do it, just because we want to differentiate yourself in a crowded category of people who are just constantly selling you what they have to offer you. Um, in addition, um, I'm surrounded with people who just have a creative pulse, George and the guys there and Caesar and Alex, and we kind of live in the world of fashion and luxury. So, um, something that has always been important and I go back to the fact that it's all you've really got in the end is your brand. So, um, yeah, if you become a me too, you just become, you know, a a race to the bottom on price. >> What were some of these bottlenecks that popped in as the brand has scaled that were really important that we had to fix to keep growing and keep excelling that would save a founder from a lot of headache? >> I mean, the hardest thing in a business when you're scaling from 0 to 10 or 1 to 10 million, I think, is um, demand planning. So, I'm going to go and make my minimum of these and they're going to last me till here and then I'm going to probably use that cash and order again, you know, here. The issue is if you sell out here, you you you didn't demand plan, right? So, we didn't forecast how many cans and consistently for about the last 365 days, we've not been in stock for 200 days on our website because we continuously sell out. I think that's a glorified thing. I don't think people should necessarily be proud of selling out because we sell a subscription offering where people should drink it every day. So, if they can't drink it every day, >> it goes against my mission of fueling the athletes. So, with all that being said, the hardest thing to do is how much do I need to have to buy what I think I can support for a period of let's say 12 weeks. Problem is, if that sells out in four weeks, you're kind of screwed because your manufacturer doesn't have time to produce for you. You got to book in over here, buddy. Join the wait list. And if it lasts you too long, you can't you don't have the cash generation to do the fun stuff and the cool campaigns and the sponsoring of X and Y. So, it's just this like constant threading of the needle of like inventory and cash. And then it's called demand planning and it's one of the hardest things to do as a business because you go from selling 100 grand a month to a million a month to 10 million a month. And like what I always say is companies, we're going to grow 500% this year. >> First year to second year. >> Yeah. [snorts] And do you know anyone that grew 500%? I'm, you know, grow 1%. >> This guy right here, man. >> No, but like >> I know. No. Yeah. No, not at all. >> Like it just doesn't happen. Yeah. You know, >> I hope I get this question later on this week from somebody else. Like, no, I actually do, man. >> Let me let me shoot him text. >> That's what people and companies don't grow at the same pace. >> That's insane. >> Yeah. It's just not >> I feel like you'd be happy if you grew 100% every year. >> You'd be stoked, man. There's a lot of brands right now. They're down 70% on the year. >> Yeah. big brands that are down a lot, dude. You know, Sweet Green and Cava down [ __ ] crazy. Saw that yesterday, man. As a as a overrated salad bowl. >> I like Sweet Bro. I hate Sweet Green. Nick Jam is a very good friend. >> I'm a bowl guy, man. I I I love the bowl situation. Honestly, I love the brand. I think it's one of the best consumer brands. I think Sweet Green have a great product and I love the team there. I'm biased. Nick's a very good friend of mine. Uh his wife, his whole family are amazing. I think naturally speaking, you know, same as us, like their Gatorade is like Chipotle and McDonald's, you know, like >> it's hard to sell people at $20. My salad sweet green, by the way, is like 30 bucks. I don't know what I put in it, but it's not cheap, right? >> Yes. >> And that's hard to break Mass America. To go back to that question, like the Gatorade for them, like you just rock up to Burger King and get like a $4 meal deal. >> Even Chipotle has gotten more expensive though. My Chipotle order the other day, I hadn't been to Chipotle in a really long time and I was in a pinch. I'm like, I'll go get a little double. >> I rate Chipotle, right? >> Double Chick. I know you like Chipotle. I I just I really prefer now to cook at home. I cook at home most of my time. Have >> you been to that hill? I cook at home as well. Have you been to the one uh uh uh tallow organic? >> No, the Chipotle or the Chipotle. >> I need to try it. >> I've been, you know, there's a spot over in Santa Monica that I really like that's a beef tallow burger and fries. It's called um silly ass name. Horrible name. I can't remember it so bad. Palms and Patties. >> Palms and Patties. Yeah. Psalms and Patties. I've not been fire though. Actually, a really good burger. It's super >> I think it's just Yeah, it's interesting though because >> the healthconscious person going forward, man. >> I feel like uh a like a they used to be positioned in a place where it's like 134 maybe $15. >> Their costs have risen >> and like now you're talking about something that's costing like 22 to $26. You're like >> this is getting kind of expensive. And if we're feeling like that in LA >> where you're in a bubble where you can go to [ __ ] Air1 and spend $35 on a hot plate and be like >> if I get if I get one under $30, you're like I won. >> But then you talk about like middle America, you're like they're looking at a $22 smoothie or a $22. It's It's a lot. >> It's absurd. I don't even know how that little Earth Bar place survives, man. It's a $20 smoothie if you >> People buy it. It's aspiration. It's brand. People want it. It's content, you know. >> Yeah. It's um >> it's very very interesting. God, >> you also brought up in a YouTube video that you had a great conversation with a partner in the Middle East and you said that distributing abroad is like difficult and it can if you're partnered with the wrong person, >> it can hinder the brand because it's like that's your baby >> and and uh distributing abroad is is tough. So what about the deal with the partner in the Middle East like works and what are you looking for in a partner when you go to distribute um abroad? >> Yeah, I also said that like I hate international business because I believe that until you've achieved a certain scale like why would you take your resource allocation? So all if all you have is speed and you're never going to win on resource or capital, then why are you taking your resource and your capital, the two things that you can't beat other people on, and deprioritizing the core strategy uh of the business, i.e. US retail, and having them go over here and deal with a very small rounding error because you're not just going to hire more people to deal with like a couple POS a year. So I generally hate it and I don't think many businesses should do it until they reach let's say $100 million. When it's the right time to do it probably comes down to a couple things. One is like operational complexity and lift. For us when we went to Australia way way too early probably we had to change our artwork and our can. Our moqs are so high. So I had to get regulatory in have an Australian business set up an Australian lawyer reprint the can ship them off to Australia tie up our cash send it off. And like it's been an okay business. It will grow. We're launching 7-Eleven there, 750 stores, couple of other big gas stations, petrol stations. But you get excited by like, oh, international Australia is so sick. But like nothing else matters other than this four walls of America. Like Celsius, however many billion dollars here, >> monster, ghost, look at all these brands. They just focus on this market. And um that's what I'm trying to instill in my team. But what do I look for? for I look for brand alignment in terms of um are they going to represent the brand well because you don't lose control of the brand but chances are you're not going to be signing off on every mom and pop shop they put it into and thankfully for us they're okay kind of being in a lot of places um but you know if I see a cadence run club out in the Middle East and it's like I'm like I'm pulling the plug on that thing like that's just jeopardizing my core business because people are going to get confused if I start seeing athletes who are fuel fueled by cadence and they're not who we so there's certain rules and regulations we put in place contractually they can't do X and they can't do Y this individual Hamdan happens to be a very good friend of mine a very successful entrepreneur and has full alignment on who the brand is and where we want to be and then the last thing I'll say is like it's a very easy supply chain he's buying the same can as we make today no artwork changes no labeling changes and he picks it up at our factory in a truck like I don't have to do anything so you know for me it's like you know it's a I mean the the Ahmed from Wood went over there created a great business. He's always over there you know raising capital. Um they're becoming a very healthconscious state. Um we're launching Emirates Airlines things like that. So there is some big revenue opportunities for us. >> You guys are partnering with Emirates. >> Yeah. >> So you'll be on the plane, >> you know, touch way to SD. >> Yeah. >> Wow. That's so cool. >> Pretty dehydrated on a flight. >> Damn. That's true. That is so true. And Emirates is >> that's the tip tip top of the world. >> But all the cool there's a big food culture there. You don't they don't drink a lot of alcohol clearly. Emirat local culture and obviously there's Brits abroad >> um who drink enough for everyone. But [laughter] um it's a big food culture. People eat a lot, drink a lot of coffee, a lot of coffee shops, great chains. So it's it's an okay market. It will be generally, you know, 1 to 2% of the business, but we can still do a couple million dollars there for sure. >> Yeah. And that's really solid. So >> wait wait wait wait. But I got to stick on Emirates for a sec. You talk about having leverage and being able to like do these deals on your own term. Are you working into an Emirates deal first class flights? >> Me personally, >> yeah, [laughter] >> I need an agent or something. >> I'd rather just take the money. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Have you flown Emirates first class? >> I've never flown Emirates first class. No, >> that's the goal. >> Yeah, I actually looked at it. I'm going over to Dubai in December. Uh we're launching in November, so like now. Uh, I know George is going out and then Will's out um to activate and um I just can't make it work because I'm traveling too much. I'm going to London next week to do some cool school stuff. And then I was like, let me take my wife who's been through the ringer with me and my daughter go for a holiday. I wouldn't opt choose Dubai naturally. Um got other places in the world because we'd launching and I looked to first class flights and I was like I need to sell a few more cans first, [laughter] >> you know, like or I'm like I'll do some influencer stuff to a poster. come with me on my first class fighter. I was like, dude, that's >> vlogging on YouTube. >> I'm like that's probably one of the things I like would do it for, but um >> no, I've been business class. I've been fortunate enough to do that, but also like a few years ago when flights weren't as expensive. It's like crazy. I go I'm going to New York tomorrow. I'm like taking a red eyee, which is like the worst flight. And I'm like, how much? >> Yeah. >> Crazy. >> God, yeah, those New York flights are expensive. Hong Kong, man, we bought a little early. We got a good deal. We got a deal. >> That's where I want to go. I want to run Hong Kong in March. Ooh. Um, >> we were talking. So, I I ran one marathon in May. >> I haven't ran once since. >> What did you run? >> I ran the uh the one in Orange County. >> Oh, nice. >> It was fun. Uh, it wasn't really fun. Anyways, >> I have a lovehate relationship with running cuz I wrestled in high school. So, we'd run a lot late at night every single day, like all of high school. So, cut weight. >> Yeah. A lot of trauma with running, you know? It's like not my love. But, I was talking to our buddy Johnny Hawketler, Jay-Hawk, and he's like, "We should run New York." And I've been seeing the stories. I'm very I was like that looks like a fun time and all our friends that live in New York are like this is the marathon to do Orange County. I didn't feel any vibe from there's no vibe in the city in Orange County man. We were running through like a local high school. There was no one there for like hour like 2 hours of the run. >> It's just me and this one dude who we kept going back and forth with passing. That's all you're really running with. There's no like city kind of I'd see my mom and my girlfriend and my aunt like be like woo and that was it, you know? So like we kind of wanted some vibe like a >> oh major merit like the vibe. I ran London. I ran New York last year and I was meant to run this year. I had a meeting, I had to cancel, whatever, but I deferred and my promise is I'm always going to run New York. That's my city. That's where I met my wife. Like >> to me, that's really home. >> And uh the energy in that city, especially like mile 1 to 12 coming through Brooklyn, >> like there's some you got people show, you know, one of the tactics I'll say is print your name on your jersey. So it's like Ross, Ross, Russ. [laughter] I'm like, yes. But I wouldn't I you know like >> but it's like a million people or something crazy you know and obviously now like you know it's become this big you know you know influencer infused activity or being in the city for the week and >> it's an energy that actually will carry you through 26 miles. You can't muscle through 26 miles but in New York you can >> cuz they just lift you up. And I think um the only thing I'll say is I'll never try and like race New York because >> it's a lot of stimuli going on. >> Yeah. No, it's just also it's a well first of all it's a very tough course if you're going to like try and PR like I wouldn't pick New York I've got friends who have PR New York and like fair play to them they got to be really strong on the hills and the bridges but like you go see your buddies if you drink you crack a beer if not you crack a cadence and then you have a slice [snorts] of pizza on M 12 at the Dirty Bird pop up and it's just like an energy where you just I don't I want to be out here for five hours >> honestly I [clears throat] don't want to be I don't want to be done in two and a half I want to be out here for five. So, um, my buddy this year did a reverse. Do you see that? >> No. >> Hercules. He He went to the start. He went to the finish line at 1 a.m. ran to the start line and then ran the marathon. >> Holy [ __ ] >> So, he ran 40 some >> He ran He ran 80 He ran 84 85k. Yeah. >> Yeah. Math isn't really Braden Strong. >> I'm not good at math, so you got to do that. That's not [laughter] >> Help me out with that, guys. >> He ran two marathons. Yeah. >> He like actually ran two marathons, 52 miles. Yeah. >> Didn't just didn't just jog it. He's like he's >> I mean he he can run a he's a very fast marathoner. He just ran across Montenegro last month. He's done 150 miles in a day. He's like a he works with us. He he has a brand in the UK for us. >> He also happens to be like a top top runner. Um but he ran with his fiance, but you know he does a lot of content and it was kind of like went kind of viral online. He got a lot of hate for it which is part of the I mean running is a funny sport you know. >> Yeah. Ryan's there's an interesting group that runs man. Interesting group. That's funny. You can just chill out a little bit. >> Yeah, people need to relax. >> I saw Wait, on the topic. >> Yeah. Yeah. Cadence and chill. Dude, >> I um on the topic of running and it being kind of a weird sport, I saw some it must have been on TikTok or somebody was telling me that they were posting on Straa and this like really like really successful like fast runner was like commenting hateful [ __ ] like oh cute run or something. I saw this. >> What are you doing? all the guys that like ran in college and like now you've got like guys getting bagged for like running a slow marathon. You know, >> it's a pretty like my thesis and my stance on is like >> like if you're moving more than less like generally it's a good thing. Now, do I believe that all the flowing of money is going towards influencers instead of like professional runners? Yes. But as a as a brand that has sponsored the number two American marathon runner, top 10 finishing the Olympics and paid them six figures and I have paid influencers 500 bucks. This guy didn't there's no return on investment other than like brand equity value and these guys can pump for me. So I understand why a lot of the capital from the larger brands is going into the influencers because they're actually adding a lot of incrementality to the sport. So, I understand why these guys are annoyed. And if I'm these guys, I'm like, I'm cashing in. I'm cashing in because it's my job. >> On the topic of content, you've been posting some awesome vlogs on YouTube. >> I want to know why >> as a founder, what is the point or what is the benefit of being forward- facing on YouTube? You don't have to. You could build cadence without being a well-known founder. >> We see you doing it. We see George doing it. Why be forward- facing and create content and put your face out there? Um, >> is it to have more of an impact? Like, what is the why why do it if you don't have to? >> Honestly, um, I found it very hard in the beginning. Um, when my last company, I pretty much didn't showed nothing and we did some crazy like crazy stuff. Peter Teal wrote my series C term sheet on a private plane. >> Wow. gave me $42 million on a flight from LA to San Francisco. Like Peter Teal like Gates Drake was an investor. We threw the Coachella party Justin Bieber like we I could have a bazillion YouTube if I had documented that. There was a level of regret to that. By the way, none of that created great business. So it's like that doesn't mean we were like like fundamentally that's not impressive. However, I've always been inspired personally as a consumer of founders that have documented their journey. George is a huge inspiration to me and I'll tell him as my best buddy like you inspired me through his content starting Cadence I understood the value it could create on a company through founder content. Um, so I wanted to take it on and I built a small team around me to help me do that because fundamentally when I wake up in the morning and I I don't think about let me like think through the list of content like I'll message Tyler I need you to be my brain on this cuz I'm focused on X and Y like we've just talked about like operational sales strategies like that gets me off. The other thing is is I actually just feel hugely inspired by the fact that when I am 40, 50 years old, 60 years old, my daughter will watch this and be like, "Wow, my dad was a savage." Imagine your dad built Red Bull >> and you could watch that. >> Um, so I got to watch my father. He was a super big inspiration to me um firsthand. But I think um I I'm inspired that my daughter, who's now nearly two years old, when she's old enough to watch, will watch her dad build what will be the one of the biggest drinks companies in the world. >> It's amazing. >> You um you said a quote, too. You said, uh, "My family gives me meaning, but purpose gives me direction." >> Mhm. >> Can you tell us a little bit about what that quote means to you? >> Yeah, it kind of came off the back that I think um Huh. It's a Yeah, it's a it's a good it's a good one. That was an interesting quote. I think um you know um I think it's over glorified to think that um balance and being like quote unquote I guess happy all the time is really going to be existence. I have everything going for me. I have a great business that I'm in love with. I have wife and a daughter. But it does feel selfish that when I wake up in the morning, I think primarily about my work. You know, honestly, there's other there's two other living beings in my life that I am fundamentally responsible for to some extent. My wife is a huge factor from my child, my my daughter, because she cares for her and she's a full-time mother. But, um, you know, when I wake up in the morning, I'm straight into the office. I'm working all day. I come home at night. I have my non-negotiables. I take her to the park at 3:30. Non-negotiable. Don't call me. Phone is off. and I bath her at night. Like that is the two moments in time. But work is just such a big part of my life and it does make it is fundamentally again the most important thing for the mission of the family. So I think that it's hard to find the balance and I'm not balanced but this is my version of balance you know like 99% work 1% here half% here whatever the math not mathing but to go back to that it came back from the fact that like maybe this is okay like you know maybe this is normal and I think a lot of people um comment and be like oh you've got such a good balance but like they don't see behind the curtain. I'm not necessarily this perfect guy who's like spending all their time with their family or I'm in the gym enough or whatever. So, yeah, I think that came from the fact that like it is hard to prioritize other things that could be prioritized when you're so focused on building such a great business. >> I want to stay on this for just a sec because so I just got engaged a few months ago. Thank you. >> And I've always struggled with like I know I want a family. I know I want kids for sure. having a kid or having multiple changes things a lot. And as someone who, you know, we're building the podcast, I have, me and Brandon both have like big goals for ourselves >> and and maybe things change like once you do have a kid and and your priorities change and everything, but like I admire you because >> you are such a like from what I've seen an amazing family man, but also like a [ __ ] killer entrepreneur. And I think what I worry about is like once you do have a kid, it gets harder to do the business [ __ ] >> Focus on Yeah, 100%. You're a selfish guy and that's okay. >> Like I I am too. Um, you know, I always wanted kids. I wanted kids. I grew up with two sisters and I've always been inspired by like big families. I didn't have like a lot of like big family cousins and like and all that around me, but like I've always wanted that and I always told myself the same story. >> Yeah. like you're telling yourself the story like I can't have this if I have this but like >> or like I I I can't have a kid until like so and so is set up. >> But then like when you get so and so like other problems and other goals exist like it it's not ever ending. It's unstoppable, right? It's that big. It's like the unstoppable. When I win my first when I sell my first company, I'm just going to No, you're not, bro. >> I was in the hostel. My wife was 5 cm dilated. I signed the term sheet to sell my business. >> Wow. I was in the laptop in the corner like when it comes out when she comes out you I got I got you. But until then like I'm cranking. [laughter] That's the truth and that's who I am. But also my wife understood that's who I am. We didn't just like have a baby after a meeting for a week, you know? We're like not in the NBA. >> So, [laughter] but anyway, all that being said is um there's truth to it and I think it's okay. Honestly, you can't do it all. And that's the unconvenient truth. I think anyone who comes on here and maybe people disagree and says no you can do it all. You cannot be the best father in the world. You can be the best father you can be given your circumstances and for me the best father in my agreement with my wife and I think it's important to have agreements cuz I [ __ ] hate expectations. >> Like expectations are the worst thing that you could have come on here and be like I thought he would be great but we had a call before and we briefed and we understood where the relationship was going to be. my ex my relationship with my wife is that like I'm going to do this you're going to do this and we are signing up for that it's a joint business plan all for the importance of my daughter what did my daughter need she needs certain things we got to pay for you yeah you know we got to pay for [ __ ] you know that's the truth and I think anyone who's like no it's perfect balance and all this stuff it shouldn't be 50/50 my version of 50/50 is different I don't do half the child care and she does half the child care cuz I do I don't do 50% of the work and she does 50% of the work that's the agreement I have with my wife and and she's okay with that. I'm okay with that. So, I think to go back to it, when you do decide to have a kid, it's obviously with a partner that you've had a discussion with where you want to be in life, where she wants to be in life. And I do think the inconvenient truth, it was a podcast Steven did with this amazing doctor and psychologist and she talked about like the reality is is like generally speaking, the father is less important to the newborn between the ages of one to three. Your job, the baby doesn't need two months. >> That's the truth. So, I have allowed my wife has allowed for us and me to focus on certain things that are going to have longerterm value for the family. And I know that come 3, four years old, I'll be in a position where yes, I can take 12:00 off because I've got a team at 200 and it's okay. I just got to get there. >> Just got to build that and keep going with that. What What have you noticed from having Stephen as an investor? That's someone that I admire a lot. Someone that I think we've watched I've watched him grow. I've modeled certain things that we've done after him. What have you noticed from working around him? >> We were up at his house the other day and I think the one thing that Stephen has is an obsession around um source of truth. So when he is he's one of the best interviewers in the world other than you guys obviously um >> we're second >> but he will >> we're coming >> I [laughter] mean watching the he will read books about people he'll read books about people who think like he is so obsessed around the source of truth. So when I have spent time with him, you know, understanding how deep he goes into the individual that he is um interviewing and not only that, the level of depth he goes into about what other people are saying or the creator economy around the tags and the likes and the comments. So for example, there's a subject on electrolytes. He's going to find out who the thought leader is on that. You know, he's so data obsessed. This guy is not opinion based at all. He's so he's so data obsessed and just being able to see how his mind thinks about um the obsession over that source is is amazing and the level of depth he goes into the work he does and the team he has around him. I mean you go up to his house there's teams armies on working on many projects and sprints. It's like it's a it's really impressive. He's a super impressive guy. And the other thing I'll say is he gives you his time. >> He'll sit there and his phone I mean I see it his phone is going people's names that I'm like, you should barely have picked that up. That guy was in the White House not too long ago and he's got you. He's locked in. No problem. If you He's If you've got his time, you've got his time. And I find that extremely respectful because he's not like, "Oh, yeah. No, bro. That sounds really great." And um and that's something that I I'm like, "Wow, if he can do that, and I've seen what you know, people Mr. Be's calling him Barack Obama's calling him. It's crazy." And he's like locked in. And I find that like honestly that's pretty that's pretty sick. Wow, >> that's crazy. That's awesome. >> Is there something Is there somebody else maybe similar to Stephen who you've been fortunate enough to spend some time around that you've learned >> quite a bit from or that you admire that you're like I want to bring this >> into my life. [sighs and gasps] >> Um yeah, I through the last company raised from some great investors, you know. Um raised from like founder of Starbucks. Um we raised from uh obviously Peter Teal and raised from Dan Sonheim which is one of the best hedge fund managers probably to ever live. So just being able to spend time around them whether it's in board meetings or whether it's just on off sites. Um just two three hours can be life-changing the way they think, the way they operate. Um I think um you know without sounding cliche I'm hugely inspired by my father. He taught me a lot. you know, had a modest business growing up, never, you know, changed the world or anything, but I had a lot of aspiration when I grew up. I got to see him build a company from one person to five people to 10 people and a very different industry, but like used to take the bus after school and sit in his office and like his office was like half this size and then it got a little bit bigger and then it became the size of this home and I was like, "Wow, like that's pretty cool." And like always on like always in his team used to sit right in the middle of the office. No corner office [ __ ] and uh that definitely ingrained a lot in me and how he deals with people and um how he likes to think about like success. It's always been super inspirational. So I think like just the amount of time I've spent with him has been probably the biggest impact on my life. >> Was he always like working with his team? Did you notice that he was always like in the weeds with them? >> Yeah, he was in recruitment. So it's a very like salespersonal um you know very hands-on business. >> Um but it was from he I'm from a from small town in a small country. I'm from Glasgow in Scotland, which isn't like the average income is $21,700. That's the average. So, it's not like no one's making six figures a year. That doesn't exist. So, everything in relative terms, if your business does a million a year, that was like you're wowing, [laughter] you know, dropped [snorts] off an evolv to school. If someone turns up in a BMW, it's like what the hell. >> So, that's just I want to just share that light. But what didn't change is like um how he handled people and how he um what he looked for when he was hiring and the level. It's just like that's instilled in me for sure. I also played sport. So like coaches that I've had in my life have definitely shaped my shaped my opinion on like you know um working hard and all that stuff. But huge huge amount of passion recognition in this game honestly. Um and I think just surrounding yourself with the right people is definitely the best thing to do. >> Have you gified business? Do you feel like you look at it as a game? >> Totally. >> Mhm. >> What are some of those key things that you've noticed? Like what are some of those patterns that you can instill to someone listening to this? >> Depends on the business honestly. Uh within within my category, there's definitely there's definitely patterns and they're evolving over time as like consumers habits change for sure. So I I might not be able to give like key specific points. Um but I have gamified it. everything. I'm playing the game. Like, I'm fully aware of it and I'll play the game as long as I need to play the game until I don't need to play the game. Um, >> do you think you would be able to do that? Like, do you think >> not play the game? >> Yeah. With your brain, do you feel like you'd be able to not play the game and just get out and be like, >> "No." >> Yeah. You don't think so? I don't think I could either. >> No, definitely not. I mean, I would like to uh not be a CEO forever. Yeah. To be honest with you. Um, I mean, I enjoy the brand side. Like, chief brand officer would be amazing. Um, right now that's we're just not there yet, you know. And um I take a lot even George for example we've talked to him a lot but like CEO founder for 15 years or 14 years and then he builds a team and now he's you know creative director because that's what he does. He's like in the fabrics and the design photography and art direction and creative direction like does he want to build the P&L? No. Um so like I love I think a great founder knows what rooms they don't need to heck what tables they don't need to be in all the time and then they put a person in that position who can execute on that. And I think for me, I would love to continue to be building businesses in consumer space. I don't think there's anything more inspirational when you see someone use your product or there's a feedback that is positive on your product. Like it hits every time. I could land a massive store today. Doesn't really get me hard. When I see a customer being like, "This helped me with my marathon, bro. I'm because I know it's just like I don't know. I just like it's different for me. But running the day-to-day business, honestly, I think this is my last time. It's funny. We we say that about the pod. Like we'll get messages online and it's [ __ ] awesome. Anytime you get a message, if you get someone you know who's like, "Yo, that was a sick episode." Or like, "I'm actually listening." Hits different. >> You see them in person. If you meet someone like, "I love your bot." I'm like, "Holy [ __ ] you're real, man." It's not This isn't just like a comment online. And it's kind of it's kind of hard to >> it's like you see the numbers online and it's cool because like they're going up and maybe hit different milestones and stuff, but it can be hard to like internalize it of like well that's kind of a lot of people watching every episode or every week, every month, >> but yeah, sometimes it can hit different if it's in person or if it's like a close >> makes my whole [ __ ] day if I meet someone in person. It's a crazy thing. I'm sure seeing it out in public, you're like, "Yo." >> Yeah, it's crazy. I was like in Brooklyn a couple weeks ago with my wife and we're like pushing and my daughter for whatever reason she like now like cuz we have like the fridges in the house and the cadence fridges she's like cadence she's only nearly two she didn't really speak her first words >> but [laughter] bro I swear to god there's a guy with a water bottle like in the line for coffee and she's like cadence I'm like what are you and I was like no way that's crazy it was like really cool moment like right outside like >> did she go up to him >> did she know she was like in my office >> she goes into It's kind of cool. So, I don't know how I mean it must be like the white the logo like the white space you I mean it was also like this far away but >> that's so cool. Um, and then yeah, we just see it all the time like upstate New York. There's a like my friend will send me a picture of like you know you're upstate New York 3 hours in Hudson and the barista >> has a cadence water bottle and I'm like wow that's like that's kind of crazy to me you know and but we we do have a mission and I think the goal for the company is to to be as ubiuous as a Red Bull can >> you know that if you were able to talk to a founder or if a founder is listening to this and you know they're doing a million maybe a few million dollars a year what are like those mindset shift shifts a founder needs to have to be able to scale 10 million plus >> mindset shift. I think that to go back to the very first question I think it's really important to ident to identify the three to six things that are company changing. You don't need to get every decision right. Heck if you get 50% you're probably on your you know it's probably a good odds. three to six things that are going to fundamentally change the outcome of the business from a a size of the prize perspective and that's all you should hone in on because like one to 10 million is kind of this gray zone of like you've really not made it out yet. Even 10 million you've really not made it out yet, you know, but like the things that you deal with every day as a founder because your team at like one to $2 million is probably one to three people. It's probably not more than that I don't imagine. So you're doing everything and you can't really get out the weeds. You're dealing with the lawyers on the IP contract manufacturing agreement. You're dealing with the co-man and you're not an expert on product or liquid, but you're doing that too. And you're probably doing the social media and you've heard about this paid ad thing. So you got to do that too and you can't afford to hire the agency that everyone's talking about. So you're like, "Oh [ __ ] and I should be on Amazon, too. [ __ ] We have an Amazon agency." So you're doing all this stuff. But like my advice is like create measurable outcomes for all these things. If I do this right, it's going to be worth this. it's going to take up this much time and it can be done in this amount of time and identify those three things probably channel strategy product etc and take away the bottom 70%. And just be like we'll do that because they're not going to be as impactful to the company and focus on those one two three things get those right and you'll get to the next stage and at the next stage you can hire people you can raise money and you'll get those other 70% of things that are rounding errors to the business if you get the one two three right. I'm massively I think that's the biggest thing a founder can do. >> Last one. What were those top three for cadence? What were the top three in your opinion? >> Um it's for us it's distribution stores which ones were focused on which ones were not. Uh and innovation. So we've kind of halted innovation as a company because we've got quite horizontally ambitious about the portfolio ready to drink ready to mix and other. And we have the balance sheet to launch 15 new flavors. Honestly, we could launch 20 new flavors. we could do it and I know they'd be successful, but we said, "Okay, stop. What's the most important thing for the company? Let's get each one of these SKs to 100 million until we launch another flavor." And until we get there, we haven't unlocked the ability to do X. And we probably will before, but as a general purpose, I'm saying that needs to be in I need two to 5% of America to have tried that can before I launch orange soda. >> You know, that's basically my thesis. >> I love it. This has been such a fun episode. Ladies and gentlemen, this has been episode 183 with Ross McKay. If you're still here, please hit the subscribe button, drop us a comment, leave us a like, and we'll see you guys all next week. Peace. PPD. >> Some people say they just come for this part. >> That's what a lot of people are saying. Yeah. >> So, speed. Got to be fast. >> Got to be fast. >> Got to be 3840. >> That's quick. >> Yeah. That's what people That's what Ross is running at. >> Yeah. I mean, he's making five decisions in the car before we hit record. >> He made three decisions sitting on the couch right there. He's like, "We're going to pause the pod." Yeah. >> Got to make this call. He didn't do that, but he could have. >> Could have if he wanted to. I would have respected it. >> I would have been like, "Okay, game is game. What are we making a decision [laughter] on? >> Can we Can we make a decision? >> What do you need help with?" >> Yeah. >> Where can we take this? >> Yeah. You know what? Actually, we had some thoughts, Ross, after talking to you. We had some thoughts about Cadence. I will say, and I I feel like I say this after a ton of our episodes, but this truly >> was one of my favorites. >> It was great. It was uh it was a masterass in building a very successful CPG brand. I mean, he's exited before from Daring, so it was so interesting to hear like what he's taking into this new venture. Uh, this is something that him and George Heaton co-founded. >> Yeah. >> And just to see all of the decisions that go into sipping the liquid that was on the table. >> And it was really good. >> Very good. Very good. I loved the flavor that I spilled all over myself. Yeah, >> it was fantastic. A >> lot of spillage this episode. >> We had a lot of spillage going on. Low scores in the corner. Ross thought it was going to be easy. Yeah. You know what's also interesting is he made it seem like he kind of got lucky with daring foods in a way >> like with right time >> right like co hit it was frozen food it just so happened that it took off but >> I don't think he gives himself enough credit like he's smart dude >> so he he's so smart he's so dialed on just the details that go into this stuff. It's not just like oh is a liquid good. It's it's like the world. It's the world that he's building. It's the YouTube channel. And I I want to say too, this is really interesting. >> I just found him through like Cadence through YouTube. That's how I got exposed to the brand. And I think it shows the importance of founder content. How important YouTube is. It's why after our trip to Hong Kong, like we are starting, we started a second YouTube channel. Yeah. specifically for the case that if you just come to the show and hang out with us here, you only get Dude, you only get the PPD to really get to know us. >> I know. >> You only get the PPD. I mean, I don't want to take away from this time. I want to add more to this time. >> Yeah. And it's so funny cuz um after the episode, I was my wheels were turning. >> Wheels were turning. >> And I'm like, I got to make I got to make something. I need to I want an exit. >> Got to build, >> you know, >> got to build something. So, we've been we've been we've been plotting, dude. But just know, dude, whether it's whether it's the thing that me and Braden are going to do together that we're super excited about. We're not ready to to talk about it yet, but I also have some ideas. Like, I know you want to get into beverage. I I kind of came up with an idea for a beverage myself, but after hearing like Christian Guzman and him talk about like how hard it is and how much >> time and effort you actually have to put into a >> it's got to be your thing. It's got to be like that has got to be the thing. What I also thought was really interesting that Ross talked about was >> it's like you're solving a problem that you have. It's like a lot of these the start of an entrepreneur's journey is looking at your life and thinking about like what are the super annoying problems you want to solve, right? Whether looking at the lights are in this room. I'm assuming the founders of these lights were like I think we can make a better light that does X, Y, and Z. I think that I can make a better beverage that is tastes better, is more functional, has better ingredients in it, whatever, more caffeine, whatever the heck the thing may be. So many of you listening to this right now, you probably have an idea that bothers you. there's something out there in your life, whether it be a shoe on your feet, pants, shirt, you know, a software that you think can make your life easier. Lean into those things and I bet you you might, you know, one of the biggest companies in the world might be listening to this right now. >> I mean, you [snorts] think about all the most successful, biggest brands, they all solve a problem. And I think like we all dream about making this like massive company and you're like, "Okay, what's the [ __ ] idea?" And it doesn't come from you sitting down and being like, I'm going to right now think of a billiondoll brand idea. It come. It's going to come one day and be like, this doesn't exist out there. He said the hydration beverage for or the performance like Cadence didn't it didn't uh it didn't exist and he needed it. It was like he was trying to find it and he was trying to fuel himself after these workouts. didn't exist, so he went out to go make it like >> with low with no sugar. >> Yeah. It doesn't that doesn't happen if he's just like hm like if if he's not in the culture of working out and running, like he doesn't come up with the idea for Cadence. >> Without a doubt. I thought something that was also really interesting. He talked about getting outside of his bubble and like making a product that's not just for Los Angeles or New York City. Ros is not just thinking about a product that would land here. It's like what could the entire US consume and what would they enjoy and what's a price point that could stick? It's not going to be probably like that $4 price point that we're so used to seeing in these convenience stores out here, which is ridiculous. You went, we got to make them two bucks again. Everything should be two bucks. Every drink >> you go to the Alfreds that we live right down the street from, $7 for a medium iced coffee. $6 if you don't choose to do the cold foam. And I've almost just kind of gotten used to that. And what's messed up about that is now I'm like, man, $5 for an iced coffee sounds pretty good. But like I specifically remember, bro, a time when Starbucks was $2.75 for a medium cold or grande cold brew, ice cold brew. And then I remember the day I went and it went up to 325. And I remember that because I was like, "Oh my god, it's no longer two. It's in the threes." I'm like, "Man, things are getting expensive." And then something happened with minimum wage and then Starbucks. I went again and it was like $5 for an ice coffee. And I'm like, "Dude, what are we doing? So expensive." >> You've lived through so many moments in history. >> I know, dude. I'm so old, dude. It's crazy. Feel like a dinosaur. But things are getting expensive. Um, and and you kind of get kind of used to it because you live in LA and it's just kind of becomes the norm. And like you think about that that is just so not the case. It's outrageous. It's outrageous is what it is. And I think uh something interesting too. If you looked at like all the cans, >> if you looked at >> Take out something interesting, >> if you look at all the cans on a wall and you stick his beverage on, >> it's beautiful. >> Yeah. >> Feels good in the hand. It's pretty. It's a pretty can. Very >> photogenic. >> Yeah. It stands out and and it's uh it's a marketing tool itself. >> You see it like we talked about it on the flatlays of people going to do their marathons. It's like that's a that's now part of it's it's the watch, the shoes, the socks, and then boom, it's the gels and the drink. >> Oh, I loved this. We even put this in the PPD. >> Talking about the price point of the can and being able to have more products in your ecosystem because you have these different like you, okay, you have like Target or something is not just buying that can, you're also getting the gels or the the salt um you know what I'm talking about those little pouches things. you're able to make more on those than you are on the beverage because the weight and all that stuff. So, it's interesting to have like different product SKs in your arsenal to where when you're going to those stores, you could in theory you can make less on your actual can. You're making it back on the revenue that you're getting from like the pouches or from the gels because it's so much cheaper to make those and like he was telling us about that. So, that's a really interesting strategy where a lot of brands are just like, oh, it's just the canned beverage. they're not going into these other different items. And so, you know, you can afford to potentially make a little bit less on the price of said can because you're going to get it back on another product that's going to be in the same vicinity or that in that same ecosystem for your brand. >> But the but the can is the main thing >> for sure. Yes. >> Around the brand. >> Definitely. Yeah. That's what that's what that's what people know it as. And you start with one and then you build out because he probably when he was thinking about uh you know Cadence as a brand he was probably having all these ideas of like oh we could make this and this and this but he's like let's just start with the can and then as we get the liquid down and we start having traction we can introduce other things and other flavors as well. >> You think Rosco goes to bed at like 8:00 p.m. It's going he's getting up at like 4:30. Man >> respect. I thought what he said was very interesting. He's like, "If I want to train and go on a 4-hour run," he's like, "It has to be on my time." >> He's like, "I'm not impact. I'm not going to impact like I want to spend time with my daughter, I want to be present, and there's things that I need to do for my business and also for my family." >> That if I want to be selfish and have me time, I'm just going to have to wake up a little bit earlier. And I honestly respect it. And it just kind of scares me because I'm like, >> "Oh, you think >> I'm not a 4 a.m. kind of guy, but like, do I have to become that when, you know, we eventually start having kids?" >> Oh my god. >> Is that kind of scary? >> The thought of 4:00 a.m. makes me want to like bash my head against a wall. Getting up at 4:00 a.m. It's one time my dad gets up, dude. I don't even know what you >> What do you do at 4 a.m.? >> What's up with our dads [laughter] get up at 4:00 a.m.? >> Dude, my dad doesn't even wake up with an alarm. It's just like they levitate at 4 a.m., bro. Anyone over the age of 60, these dads just like >> Yeah. Yeah. They just come to life at 4 a.m. It's like Dracula. They just pop up. Pop up out of bed. It's a crazy [ __ ] Maybe that's what it is. Maybe you become a dad and you're like, "Okay, >> you know, you're already getting trained for it. You have no sleep for that first little period of time." >> Yeah. >> Just lock in. >> Um, back to the can and how it looks. There's a uh there's a detergent that we started buying. Oh. >> And it looks completely different. I forget the freaking name of it. >> We're not plugging them for free. >> No. No. No. Not. Definitely not. >> But then I was thinking about so like their whole marketing thing is that it's it's not toxic. Yeah. >> Whatever. >> Yeah. >> But it looks real sexy and it looks like something that I would take a photo of and post it on my story. It's like an aluminum can solid matte color. It looks really sexy. And that's like another example of these. There's so many brands out there and so many industries that just haven't been disrupted and they all look the exact same. Oh yeah, keep that >> if you like healthify it and then you make it look fancy and sexy. I feel like both of those are just it's like a recipe for success, which is exactly what uh Ross did with Cadence. >> What is the brand? This is what I'm trying to look up of the hand sanitizer >> ASOP. >> No, no, no. It's like touch-free or something. Touchland. >> Okay. >> How much did Touchland sell for? Okay. On the topic of what you were just saying, this hand sanitizer brand, if it was always Purel, like since I was like a young kid, right? It was like Purel and then maybe Bath and Body Works had some like hand sanitizers, but really it was Purll, right? >> You looked at all of the different sanitizers, the same couple brands. >> Touch Touchland came out with like, oh, this is like kind of a cuter little thing. It's like the It looks a little bit more premium. You know what I'm talking about? I literally have it in my bag. Do >> you have a photo of it? >> Yeah, it's You >> just pulled it up. >> I do. I do. just pulled it up. It's that those ones. >> Oh, I don't think Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. They they sold for 880 million this year. >> Wow. >> It's just hand sanitizer. There's really nothing different. They changed the packaging of it. They changed the look and feel of it. That's another thing that from everyone that we've talked to on the show that's a very successful entrepreneur. Many of them really like Ross's Ross reinvented what he wanted out of like the the beverage space, but it's it's still a drink. It's not like it's it's you know what I'm saying? It's still a drink, right? It's a beverage. Many of the really massive companies that we see aren't like magical ideas that no one's ever thought of before. It's like a little twist on something that already exists and making it more either for them. Like that's a that's a cooler looking hand sanitizer. It's still hand sanitizer. It still does the same thing that all the other brands are still doing. Maybe it smells a little bit different. >> And like you don't have to reinvent the wheel to go make something great is where I was going with that. >> 100%. and he talked about he's kind of going after Gatorade, right? Or like Red Bull, like he wants to make something that big. And right now, you look at Cadence and they're doing very well, but it's like a drop in the bucket in comparison to what the Goliath of Gatorade is doing. I have no doubt in my mind that he will get to that like billion dollar plus uh marker. But I I think there's there's like so much opportunity out there and so much of like a little part of that pie is still so much money. And so just because one person is doing it or there's one brand out there doesn't mean that you can't go out there and do something similar, change things up, change up the branding um and your positioning slightly and like still have major success. >> 2026 I think or 2025 has shown especially in like your women's fashion the huge players the Lulu's, the Aloss, you had all the littleer brands taking market share. Those littleer brands were coming in and taking 10 million here, 10 million here, $50 million here, $100 million here. We see them on our street, bro. They pop up. Those legging brands, they pop up. >> They can compete. It's no longer just like you're having to have, oh, if it's not the biggest and the best thing, like consumers are spreading out. It's not It's no longer like, oh, I only buy set brand. >> And I also think >> I think what do you think? What's your thoughts on that? Do you only buy like what like are you loyal to any direct brand? I dude I literally bought for example I I drink yerba mate every day. I could totally be persuaded to buy a different drink because of a healthier provision and I got the new liquid death drink. It's like it's just to try it out just to just to see if it's legit, if it tastes good. I'll tell you guys if I think it's trash or not. I think that we're seeing a a major shift in like obviously creatorled businesses are becoming and and like forward- facing founders. It's becoming like a real thing. I think that like the opportunity didn't really exist 20 years ago. Like social media has made it to where anyone can build a brand and and create a story around a product and really market it and like actually go up against these like major brands. I I bet you for example his co-founder George Heaton made 247 athletic wear. I'm more tempted to go buy running shorts and a top from 247 because I resonate with that more so than like this giant Nike thing. It almost am like I resonate more with George Heaton and Ross McKay than I do with LeBron. You know what I'm saying? So like I would rather go like [laughter] No, seriously. >> No, I know. I know. I know. I just was expecting you to say LeBron. I thought you were going to say like Phil Knight at first. You just dropped. You just >> brought up [laughter] their >> They're asking. >> No, I know. I know. I know. I know. I feel like, >> you know, I kind of like do have some residation. You know, we worked at the same company. >> Yeah, I get it. I get it. >> We were co-orkers. >> You guys did completely different things. >> We both impacted the court. Bottom bottom line. >> So different. So different, dude. [laughter] >> Uh stakeholder value, man. We were we were bringing that to the table, both of >> us. Him a little bit more than you. What I'm saying though is I don't think that happened before like >> no because of social media that's a thing >> like I don't know if Ross can could have built Cadence 20 years ago because like the distribution of content um distribution of like getting the the drink in you know in stores is is one thing but like getting the message and building the brand and like creating a movement it really it's not possible like it is today >> without the without the internet >> and so that's why I think that like you are gonna see a lot more of these brands start popping up and taking real market share from these big companies because I think the big companies still are thinking like ah these are just like these little brands like we've been crushing it for the past couple of decades >> I think if anything the end of this year and the reports from the publicly traded brands that have come out has shown that they need to be weary of what >> the littleler brands are doing. >> Would you agree though? Would you say that your >> I dude I literally went and brought Represent for the first time ever because I enjoy his vlogs. >> Yeah. >> Um not because of any other reason. I didn't see it. I've I personally really haven't seen many people by Represent. You're the first person honestly that I ever saw wear it. >> Yeah. Because I you know >> you put me on you're in front of culture. That's literally I'm in front of culture. >> I was thinking about the only thing you might have been in front of me on and it might have just been that >> I set trends. >> You did also >> I'm a trend setter. >> You also put me on to Kith. I was >> Oh, >> yeah. I just keep going. What else? >> I think those are the only two things. >> Oh, dude. But those are life-changing things. [laughter] >> You know, think about how different your life is since I came into it. >> You told me my hat's a little dirty, so I'm gonna have to get I'll have to retire. >> Have you guys seen Fig's brown hat? It used to be black. Um, but yeah, man. I, you know, it's it's very interesting though. And it's it's so it's so crazy because I I have one Represent hoodie and I want another one >> and it's this sick cobalt blue color and I was wearing it earlier today and I realized that when I had it on, >> it's so silly, but I'm like I put it on, I'm like kind of feeling like George, [laughter] you know, seriously. I'm like, dude, am I ripped? You know, am I ripped? Am I swaggy? Like I'm in my Jeep, but it's looking like a Range Rover. >> No, it [laughter] could be. That's what I was going to say. >> You know, >> you just transformed. That's so funny. >> Different than when I'm wearing my my uh blank heather gray Abberrombie hoodie. >> It's a little different. It's a little different, dude. >> Not as sick. >> It's a power of uh power founder le content, >> dude. Come on. >> Come on, dude. Come on. Hope you guys have really been enjoying the Did Can you figure that out, >> brother? It's on. Do not disturb. >> It's obviously not. My fiance just comes through. >> It's obviously regardless. >> Oh, I see. Okay. Okay. Uh the PBDs have been so fun and want to shout all of you out who have been commenting on all of the pods because it's so Oh my god, it makes our day. Makes our day to see the comments. You guys are so kind uh with just supporting us and sharing this with your buddies. Just know that none of it's possible without you guys helping us out and doing doing this whole thing with us. Or if you're a Spotify only listener, know we like you a little bit less, but we'd really appreciate a review. We don't make a scent off Spotify. Just know that we love you a little bit less and it's all good. We love you. Still love you. Just a little bit less in the YouTube squad, >> but really appreciate a review. >> How is our Hong Kong vlog coming? >> Oh my god, it's so sick. >> Are you past just the intro at all? >> Yeah, I've actually I So, I didn't actually like go in and cut it. I've I've went through It's a little bit of an interesting process. I've went into all the clips and just like chopped the chopped the heads and the tails off. So, it's like, "Okay, that that's what I'm going to use." And like going in, I'm probably like a quarter of the way through like all of those clips. It's a lot of footage, but it's so fun, you guys. The first 15 seconds, it's going to get you fired up. >> Oh, dude. >> God, it's going to get you fired up. >> I got I got really fired up. >> Did you get goosebumps when you saw where you're like, "This is it. This is Was that kind of like in your head? What was going on?" >> I was kind of like, "We're him. >> We're there." Yeah, we're there. The first vlog ever is >> how long I've wanted to be like a YouTuber. >> This is our big break. This is our big break. The first vlog ever is [laughter] >> our big >> is going with Daniel Dalen to China to visit factories. And it was such a fun such a fun experience. And that's going to be our first vlog. And the second one we think will be like just the overall Hong Kong trip as a whole. Each of those vlogs though are not going to be just like oh hey look how look what we're doing. We're going to try to make them very valuepacked. So, like every week we'll have a theme potentially, you know, maybe call some rocks in on the show to help us, you know, with answering questions and whatnot. Uh, you should send me a one-handed crack that's not embarrassing on Instagram that I can raid at the very Oh, I like that. >> at the very end. It's going to go in every single vlog. >> I feel like it should go kind of like at the beginning. >> Okay. >> Or somewhere in the middle. Oh, you want to go at the end? No, >> you're just shaking. >> We can go at the end. >> It's just fine. Oh, also thank you very much to everybody that bought um >> Oh, the personal brand >> the profitable personal brand playbook. >> I forgot the name of it. Profitable personal brand playbook. >> Try saying that 10 times fast. >> We appreciate you guys. That was uh that was epic. That directly goes and helps us like go travel and whatnot. So, if you're thinking about coping, it's down in the description. If you DM me and you're from YouTube only, not the Spotify group, I will happily I'll give you 10 bucks off. >> Oh, hell yeah. >> If you if you DM you got to be subscribed though on YouTube. It's not doing that. >> Send a screenshot of the subscribe and then say They got like $10 off. >> Not for the Spotify folks. >> No, >> can't do it. I just can't do it. That's where I draw the line. >> Yeah, this has been this has been so fun. What do we What else is going on? Is there anything else we have to update them on? >> Holidays are coming. >> Holidays are coming. Did a little >> Trying to stay trying to stay consistent with the pod as we go into the holidays cuz we got a lot of travel coming up. Um, but we have some very exciting stuff that we will talk about in a few episodes because 2026 is going to be epic and we have some really fun things coming and I'm stoked. >> Let's go. Let's keep it rolling. Oh, okay. Also, if anyone's an audio engineer in the in the in the group. Okay, we got to tell you guys about this is actually insane. So, this is our beautiful set, right? We finished the set. Looks amazing. The other day, we come here to record. Put the headphones on. Sounds horrible. Literally horrendous. like a little baby squirrel. Don't do anymore. >> That's what it sounded like. >> That's what it sounded like. It was horrendous. We couldn't record. We're like, "What the heck is going on?" We moved the mic closer to the wall and then we're like, "It gets worse." Close to the wall. We walk outside. Of course, the breaker to the whole entire home is on the back of this wall, which is so epic for us. Then we come back today, nothing changed. Nothing in the home changed. Like AC wasn't on. Like that wasn't on. And now it sounds perfectly fine. Why is that a thing? >> I don't know. We think we might have to order this special paint called EMF. >> We bought We bought No, we bought it. It's like $300. >> So, we did buy it and we're thinking we're going to have to take down all of We're going to have to take down these wood panels, paint the wall, and then use a grounding kit, whatever the f that is. >> Get ground it. >> Ground it. Send all that frequency down to the ground >> and then put the boards back up. But yeah, it was we just got very lucky that it didn't happen when we had a guest. But when I tell you that we were over here for I think six and a half hours trying to record something and it was one of the most miserable frustrating days of my entire life because we were like I just want to record. We don't understand what's wrong and then we figured out that it was wrong and then when we and then we recorded and it sounded terrible in our headphones but it didn't sound nearly as bad on the actual recording. It was so confusing. >> Yeah. Let us know though if you're a if you're a podcast rock and you can uh help us help us out with that. I have no idea. Super fun episode though, Ross McKay. Ladies and gentlemen, please hit the subscribe button, drop us a comment, go to 505 Studios and be the 67th subscriber. And we'll see you guys all next week. Paste.