0:00 Today's guest has mastered the art of 0:02 short form content. 0:03 >> Not to flex, but I'm pretty [ __ ] good 0:05 at social media marketing. 0:06 >> Always ahead for her age. She bought her 0:08 first real estate property at 15 years 0:09 old, got married at 16, and now at 20, 0:12 is generating millions of dollars a year 0:14 on Instagram. So, Ava, you just turned 0:17 20. How much money did you make last 0:18 month? 0:19 >> 700K. 0:21 >> In this episode, we'll break down her 0:22 secrets to achieving consistent virality 0:24 on social media. 0:25 >> Step one, I would go to the Instagram 0:27 explore page, type in my niche. I would 0:29 say like a hundred videos over a million 0:32 views. 0:32 >> Unveil the blueprint for becoming the 0:34 dominant voice in any niche. 0:35 >> Step two, take the hooks from those 0:37 videos and I would write 30 scripts with 0:39 those viral hooks, but my own niche 0:41 expertise 0:42 >> and explore the viral secrets top 0:44 creators don't want you to know. 0:46 >> Step three, I would 0:47 >> Jurgens, welcome to the Jack Neil 0:49 podcast. 0:50 >> Happy to be here. 0:51 >> Awesome. Yeah, Ava just came in uh from 0:54 Las Vegas. She was at acquisition.com 0:58 workshop with uh Alex and Leila 1:00 Hermoszi. So yeah, pretty cool to have 1:02 you here. I've was just telling you 1:04 before, I've been a big fan of her 1:05 content for a while. I think the advice 1:07 she gives on Instagram is super 1:09 pertinent for short form content and 1:11 just seeing her growth. I mean, how many 1:13 followers have you gained in the past 1:15 like two years? 1:17 >> Um my business Instagram is 2 years old, 1:20 so it's like 0 to 500K on that 1:22 Instagram. and she also has really uh 1:25 good business model that's generated her 1:27 a lot and she's 20 years old which is 1:30 very rare to be making uh this kind of 1:32 money at 20 but we'll get into that. Um 1:34 so Ava what's the most amount of money 1:37 you've made from an Instagram reel. 1:40 >> Um 1:42 basically how it works just the funnel 1:44 to explain it. if someone watches a 1:48 video and at the end of the video I'm 1:49 like, "Hey, comment xyz and I will send 1:52 you information about my service." So, 1:55 we had one of our videos where we 1:56 basically explained how to grow an 1:58 Instagram from scratch and it got 7.9 2:02 million views, 13,000 like leads. And if 2:07 people sign up with me, I do like a 2:10 monthly reoccurring done for you 2:11 service. They're paying anywhere from 2:13 2,000 to 4,000 a month to work with me. 2:17 So, we got a lot of clients. Obviously, 2:19 not all 13,000 of those comments 2:21 converted, but we got a lot of clients 2:23 and I want to say like 2 million in 2:25 annual revenue from that one video. 2:28 >> Got it. So, you got roughly how many 2:30 clients from that video? It was about 2:32 100, 200. 2:33 >> Uh, I want to say 100 something. But, 2:36 yeah, they basically turn into 2:38 reoccurring revenue clients annually. 2:40 That'd be 2 million. 2:41 >> Interesting. So that one video, when was 2:43 that posted? 2:44 >> August of 24. 2:46 >> August 24. Okay. So almost a year ago. 2:49 And 2:51 wow. So from that first video, how long 2:54 had you been doing Instagram? Uh like 2:56 that new brand up until that point. Was 2:58 that just a few months in? 2:59 >> Yeah. Oh, that was like a year in. I was 3:03 sitting around probably like 100k 3:05 followers, but that probably bought 3:07 brought in also like 200k followers and 3:09 a ton of leads. So that like really 3:12 really took off. Um the Instagram and 3:14 the business. 3:15 >> Now how many clients would you say you 3:17 service with the business? 3:19 >> Yeah, we service around to say 3:23 350 to 400. 3:25 >> Interesting. Okay. And then what do you 3:27 do for each of those people? 3:29 >> Yeah. So for the done for you service, 3:32 basically we spend like 10 to 12 hours 3:34 every single month researching the top 3:37 performing short form content in that 3:39 client's niche. And we only work with 3:41 business owners. And then we take that 3:43 research and they have to fill out like 3:45 onboarding documents in the beginning. 3:48 And we create viral scripts out of like 3:50 the viral hooks we researched, the 3:52 topics that clearly work. And then we 3:54 just make the value of the video kind of 3:56 specific to them, what they teach, and 3:58 everything. and then they film the 4:00 videos, we'll take them back, we'll edit 4:02 them, and then we post them for the 4:04 client. So, it's like a monthly service 4:06 where we're either making 15, 20, or 30 4:09 reels for them. And it's like primarily 4:12 Instagram reels, but we'll also 4:14 repurpose on like Tik Tok, YouTube 4:16 shorts, all the short form platforms. 4:18 >> So, essentially, one video converted to 4:21 about $2 million a year in revenue. Um, 4:23 yes. And then from there, you've kind of 4:25 just been maintaining and growing that 4:28 amount of clients and trying to scale 4:30 your systems to service as many people 4:32 as possible. Like how many people would 4:34 you say are on your waiting list that 4:36 like you can't service but like you have 4:38 leads for? 4:39 >> Uh, we actually don't have a waiting 4:40 list. I'm like we have a ton of SOPs. So 4:44 when we hire someone, we're able to 4:45 onboard really quickly. 4:47 >> But yeah, we basically just have a ton 4:49 of SOPs. So, it's not like something 4:51 that we have to build out a weight list 4:52 for, but we are pretty selective. I 4:54 would say we're more selective now than 4:56 before of just like what niches we work 4:58 with. Um, just to make sure they're all 5:00 like very solid ones that have grown on 5:03 social before. So, like personal 5:04 trainers, dog trainers, or just like any 5:07 niche that has kind of case studies or 5:09 social proof that we've already done or 5:11 just like on social media already that 5:13 we know can grow. 5:14 >> It's just fascinating. I I just don't 5:15 understand how you can scale to that 5:18 many people and maintain quality. Um but 5:21 it's obvious that you have because these 5:22 people stay on recurring revenue. Like 5:24 how do you how many employees do you 5:26 have? 5:27 >> A lot. So we have a mix of 1099 5:30 contractors and W2. So it's over 100 5:33 right now. 5:34 >> Jesus Christ. 5:35 >> So it's a lot of people. 5:37 >> 100 people. Oh my gosh. Um Okay. And 5:40 then did you when you first started the 5:42 business, were you like how many 5:44 employees did you have before that video 5:45 took off? Like were you kind of 5:47 scrambling to just fulfill as many 5:49 people as possible? 5:51 >> It I would say we had like 30, but we 5:53 were like pretty comfortable then. But 5:56 then once that video came out, we had to 5:58 hire really quickly. But I will say with 6:00 any agency, like you have to learn to 6:04 keep quality up at that scale. like it's 6:07 definitely been a learning curve and 6:08 I've definitely made mistakes but I've 6:11 learned so much and I have obviously so 6:13 many SOPs now, so many managers in 6:15 place, uh just so many I guess points to 6:18 check quality. But yeah, a lot of 6:20 quality control has been implemented and 6:22 a lot of just extra positions just to 6:24 make sure it stays the same because it 6:26 can get bad really quick if you're not 6:28 careful. 6:29 >> Yeah, it seems like you're more focused 6:30 on maintaining the clients that you have 6:33 than trying to get new ones. Is that the 6:34 case? 6:35 >> Yes. Uh yeah, for sure now. That's where 6:37 I'm at. Uh just trying to retain them as 6:40 best as possible, get them the best 6:41 results. Um obviously I want to grow, of 6:44 course, but it's you got to care more 6:46 about the clients you have than the 6:47 clients you can get. 6:48 >> Okay. So Ava, you just turned 20. What 6:51 was it? Two months ago, 3 months ago. 6:53 >> Uh March, like end of March. So two 6:56 three months. Yeah. 6:57 >> How much money did you make last month? 6:59 >> I want to say 700K. 7:05 Oh my god. I'm sorry. It It just throws 7:07 me off every time people like say these 7:09 numbers. You made $700,000 last month. 7:11 And then are do are your expenses high 7:13 for your business? 7:14 >> Um I want to say they're a little bit 7:17 under 50% of revenue. So yeah, I mean 7:23 that's pretty average for an agency. 7:25 >> Yeah. So you're making $700,000 a month 7:27 at 20 years old, which is ridiculous. Uh 7:30 is like when did this kind of journey 7:32 start for you? I'd love to just kind of 7:34 know like the um what were you like in 7:36 high school? What were you like in 7:37 middle school? Have you always been a 7:38 scrappy entrepreneur? Um like how did 7:41 you find success at a young age? 7:43 >> Yeah. Um I'm so different from when I 7:46 was 14, but uh originally like going 7:50 into high school, all I kind of cared 7:52 about was like my friends. I had 7:54 straight A's. Like I was a good student. 7:56 I wanted to be successful, but I 7:58 probably I didn't really think about 7:59 being a business owner uh for when I was 8:02 that age. But then um I don't remember 8:07 or actually I do. So my social studies 8:10 teacher when I was 15, he started 8:13 talking about Andrew Carnegie and like 8:15 him just being scrappy and starting his 8:18 own company and being so successful 8:20 after being like growing up so poor. He 8:23 like it just was so inspirational. So, I 8:24 just searched up on Google like how to 8:26 be successful or something stupid. Uh, 8:28 and like the best books to read to be 8:30 successful. And then that's when Rich 8:31 Dad Poor Dad popped up. So, then I was 8:34 15. I didn't have my license. So, I made 8:36 my sister drive me to Target after 8:37 school and I got that book. Um, and then 8:41 when we got home, my dad was home, which 8:43 was super weird, but he had like a mask 8:45 on and we were like crap. And he had CO. 8:47 So, this was like right when the 8:49 pandemic was starting, but we had to 8:51 quarantine for a week. So, I was off of 8:52 school and I read that book probably 8:55 like 2 days in and I was dating um my 8:58 boyfriend at the time. He was my 9:00 boyfriend Ben and we I made him read it 9:03 right away and then we were like, "Oh my 9:05 god, like why wait until we're 18? Why 9:07 don't we just start a real estate 9:08 investing company now?" So, we did, 9:11 which was so hard to do uh when we were 9:13 teenagers, but we basically direct 9:16 mailed. We cold called every day after 9:18 school uh because we went the offmarket 9:20 route trying to find properties to do 9:22 like long-term rental investments. And 9:25 eventually after 3 months of doing that 9:27 every single day, we finally got someone 9:29 to say yes. And we got a duplex in uh 9:34 it's like right outside Milwaukee. And 9:37 that was our first investment. And then 9:38 we kind of did that all throughout of 9:40 high school um where we got short-term 9:42 rentals and long-term rentals. Um, but 9:45 it was I always say this, but like real 9:47 estate's pretty miserable 9:48 >> because like you're talking to people on 9:50 the phone who like you're trying to get 9:52 them to like sell you their house. 9:54 >> Yeah. 9:55 >> And they like hate you obviously. Like 9:57 you get called a vulture, you get 9:59 screamed at and like it's just not fun. 10:01 Um, but after high school, so I 10:03 graduated after my junior year, I just 10:06 went full-time into real estate and I 10:07 started posting just short form content 10:09 on social media about it and just being 10:11 young in business and like as a teenager 10:13 in real estate. And like within the 10:16 first month, I got like 50,000 followers 10:18 just from posting short form content. 10:20 And then I just realized it was so much 10:21 better than real estate. And I was like, 10:24 "Wow, I could probably do this for other 10:26 business owners." because building your 10:27 personal brand back in 2022 when I 10:29 graduated, that's when it's like really 10:31 started kicking off and became like a 10:33 like the term personal brand. So, I 10:36 started doing that for other people and 10:38 just cold outreaching with like my 10:41 Instagram account um just to business 10:44 owners I saw online and I got a few 10:46 clients and I kind of started off just 10:48 like editing for them uh just the shorts 10:51 but then that eventually turned into me 10:53 starting my business Instagram then 10:55 building out the full done for you offer 10:57 and that's like the only service I have 10:59 now just dialed in on making that 11:00 perfect but that is kind of how that all 11:03 happened. Got it. So, let me back up a 11:06 bit on the real estate. Where did you 11:07 get the capital to kind of invest in 11:08 these properties? 11:10 >> So, Ben, he I forget where he I think it 11:14 was just YouTube, like Ryan Pana on 11:16 YouTube. If you're familiar with Ryan, 11:18 >> he um posted a video about couch 11:20 flipping where it's basically you find a 11:23 couch on Facebook marketplace for pretty 11:25 cheap. You buy it, you clean it up, you 11:27 just take better pictures, and then you 11:29 put it back out. And we were making like 11:31 $3 to $500 just flipping couches on 11:34 Facebook an hour, I would say. $300 to 11:37 $500 an hour. But the only problem with 11:39 that is like you have to wait for the 11:40 couches to come on. But we did that the 11:43 entire summer. Uh so we got like a good 11:46 chunk of cash um that we were able to 11:48 use cuz property properties outside of 11:51 Milwaukee like they're not like a lot uh 11:54 they're not what people are used to. 11:55 They're anywhere from like 100 to 200k. 11:58 Um, so you didn't you don't need a huge 12:00 down payment. But in order to buy it, 12:02 you have to like cosign if you're if you 12:04 were our age because we were under 18, 12:06 but there's like different ways you get 12:08 creative. Co-signing or getting getting 12:10 an LLC in like your parents or a 12:12 guardian's name and then eventually 12:14 getting that when you're 18. So, 12:16 >> and were your parents involved in real 12:18 estate like investments? 12:20 >> No, they are not. Like I mean they have 12:22 a house but not for investing. 12:24 >> Got it. Do you mind me asking like what 12:26 line of business are they in? 12:27 >> Yeah. So, my mom was a teacher and then 12:30 my dad, he uh W2 up until I was 10 and 12:34 then he started his own company. It's 12:37 pretty boring, but it makes money. So, 12:39 it's basically uh he makes phase 12:41 converters, which is like if you have a 12:44 frozen yogurt shop and you want to plug 12:46 your big frozen yogurt machines in like 12:49 an outlet, it won't work because it 12:51 needs so much power. Can't just plug it 12:52 in a regular outlet. So you get a phase 12:54 converter to get more power and then you 12:57 can plug it in that and it will work. So 12:59 that's basically what it is. But he 13:01 makes like big electrical machines for 13:03 like bigger businesses. 13:05 >> Yeah. And then your boyfriend uh now 13:08 husband Ben, you basically made a video 13:11 when you were 14 saying that you were 13:13 going to marry your current husband. 13:15 >> Yeah. So 13:17 I remember when I first saw Ben in the 13:19 math hallway, I was like, "Wow, this is 13:22 the most muscular hot dude I've ever 13:24 seen. And we were like 14, so I was 13:27 like, "Wow." Um, so two weeks later he 13:30 was my boyfriend, of course. Just 13:32 kidding. But yeah, uh, we hit it off 13:35 right away. Um, thing with Ben is like 13:38 he it was just never awkward. We were 13:41 friends right away and he's like such a 13:42 socially awkward guy. So it was weird 13:43 that like he felt the same way. But 13:46 yeah, Ben's my best friend. 13:47 >> And then what was the video you made? 13:49 >> Yes. So that was probably like a month 13:52 into our relationship. I was just like I 13:56 basically my mom recorded a video while 13:58 my friends were over and I was like I'm 14:00 going to marry Benjamin William Otto and 14:03 we just had that play at our wedding. 14:05 >> Play this at my wedding 14:06 >> here. Play this at a wedding. This is me 14:09 at 14 years old on December 8th on a 14:12 Sunday um in 2019. And I'm telling you, 14:15 I'm a freshman, by the way, and I'm 14:18 telling you right now that we got 14:20 married to Ben Otto. 14:21 >> So, that video we got, that video was 14:24 when I was 14, we got engaged at 16, and 14:26 then married at 19. So, we just played 14:28 that video at our wedding, but I posted 14:30 that on social media, and I think that 14:32 is probably my most viral video cuz it 14:34 got 50 million on Instagram, like 60 14:38 million on Tik Tok, and it got like in 14:41 People magazine. We went on the news for 14:43 it. Um, but yeah, it was pretty crazy. 14:47 >> Interesting. And is is that the video 14:49 that kind of got you into social media 14:51 or did you post that just kind of 14:53 randomly after you were making real 14:54 estate related content? 14:56 >> That video specifically was it was like 14:58 me reacting to that video at my wedding. 15:01 >> Reaction content does so well, 15:02 especially in like real life situations 15:04 like that. So, I think that is why that 15:06 went viral. And like I don't edit my 15:09 videos, but we got our wedding footage 15:11 back in October and I was like I know 15:14 this this is going to work. So I just 15:15 edited it and I posted it after like 10 15:18 minutes and it did. 15:19 >> Was that the first viral piece of 15:21 content you made or had you gone viral 15:22 before? 15:23 >> No, this is when my Instagram was 15:24 already pretty built up. This was in 15:26 like I want to say September or October. 15:28 So pretty recent. But that was like 15:31 probably my biggest video. 15:33 >> Okay. So to get into some of the 15:34 virality related stuff uh because you 15:38 service 300 400 people on going viral 15:42 consistently. What would you say is the 15:44 number one mistake people make when 15:46 trying to go viral social media? 15:48 >> Yeah. So people just like 15:52 sometimes I always like to say everyone 15:53 thinks they're a great marketer. Um but 15:56 they will just post videos that they 15:59 come up with and kind of expect it to go 16:01 viral. Um, and then eventually when it 16:04 doesn't, they'll just give up. But the 16:06 thing with content is there are so many 16:09 case studies out there of people in your 16:11 niche that have already gone viral. And 16:13 what you can do is you can just search 16:15 up your niche in the Instagram explore 16:16 page and you can click accounts and you 16:18 can find like the top 10 to 20 people in 16:21 your account or like in your niche. You 16:23 go to their accounts and you basically 16:25 want to look for videos like we call 16:26 them outlier videos, but it's basically 16:29 videos that just get a significantly 16:31 amount or like a how how should I word 16:35 this? 16:35 >> Like a higher amount of views than their 16:37 average. 16:37 >> Yes. So like I I do what's called the 5x 16:40 rule. So I'm like, okay, if it gets 5x 16:41 views and the accounts followers, that's 16:43 like a viral video in my mind. So we'll 16:45 add all of those to a spreadsheet from 16:47 their page. And then we will write out 16:49 like the hooks. We'll write out how many 16:51 views it got, the topic of the video, 16:53 like the format it was filmed in. Um, 16:55 and we'll do that for like 10 to 20 16:57 videos for each creator, um, for those 16:59 10 to 20 creators. So, you're getting a 17:01 list of like few hundred reels that are 17:03 like the best performing in your niche. 17:05 And then you just use the hooks and the 17:08 topics from those videos in your own 17:10 content, but make the value your 17:12 expertise and like your actual 17:15 actionable valuable advice. And that is 17:18 what works. And even still like when 17:20 you're starting a new account, you can 17:22 do that. But the first little bit you 17:23 just have to like push through and get 17:25 through because it's a slow growth like 17:27 when you are starting a new account, but 17:29 if you stay consistent and you do that 17:30 method, you will grow a lot faster than 17:32 just trying to post whatever you want to 17:34 do. 17:34 >> And what have you learned about social 17:37 media virality uh like in the past few 17:40 months that maybe you didn't realize a 17:42 year ago, two years ago? Like what 17:44 what's been new or has everything kind 17:45 of been the same for a while? I would 17:47 say obviously content's always changing. 17:50 Um, but I would say probably the 17:54 importance of like the three main hooks. 17:57 So there's like visual hooks, so what 17:59 you see in the first 3 seconds. There's 18:02 written hooks, what you read in the 18:04 first 3 seconds of a video. And then 18:06 there's the verbal hook, so what someone 18:07 says in the first 3 seconds. So using 18:10 all three hooks and optimizing those. 18:12 And then also it's something we call 18:14 formats. So, like if you look at short 18:16 form content, subconsciously you don't 18:18 realize it when you're scrolling, but if 18:19 you intentionally scroll, you'll see 18:21 some people use like a whiteboard. We 18:23 call that whiteboard format where 18:24 they're like like maybe revealing things 18:26 under paper on a whiteboard. Or we have 18:29 like talking back and forth format where 18:31 like two people might be dressed or one 18:33 person is dressed up as two different 18:34 people and they're like doing a little 18:36 skit talking back and forth. Or there's 18:38 talking head where you're just talking 18:40 straight to the camera or there's audio 18:42 B-roll where there's like a trending 18:44 audio and then there's text on the 18:46 screen. Um, but there's a ton of 18:48 different formats and what I love to do 18:51 is if I ever get a viral video, I will 18:54 just recreate it in different formats 18:56 and it usually does very well. 18:58 >> Which of those formats would you say is 19:00 the most valuable? Like if you could 19:01 only be really exceptional at one um, 19:04 and you wanted to use it to grow your 19:06 business, what would you say is the most 19:07 valuable? I would say the people who can 19:10 consistently go viral and have the best 19:12 personal brands like do talking form 19:14 because I would say like if you look at 19:17 an audio B-roll video versus a talking 19:19 form video, you always get more 19:21 followers, um more likes, more 19:24 engagement, more leads through talking 19:27 form videos, even if they get less 19:29 views. Um but I would say anyone who can 19:32 go viral just talking to the camera, 19:34 that's like the best. um because it's 19:37 the least engaging. Um so if you can do 19:40 well with it, that means like what 19:43 you're saying is super valuable and 19:44 people don't need like all the ADHD 19:46 things to like stay on your video. 19:48 >> Yeah, that's interesting. I see like 19:49 this big emphasis on short form content 19:52 particularly among business owners where 19:54 they're like, "Oh, we need to have like 19:55 the best edits like um and like the best 19:58 graphics, etc." But does like does 20:01 editing really go far in a video? 20:03 >> No. I would say like if I had to rank 20:06 things, I would say it's the hook, 20:09 then the script, 20:12 um then the format, 20:15 um 20:17 and then probably the editing. 20:19 >> Interesting. Okay. And then of the 20:22 hooks, you said, uh visual hook, written 20:25 hook, auditory hook. Uh, I would say it 20:30 used to be verbal, but now it's visual 20:31 because I mean people have always 20:33 listened to things on mute, but now like 20:36 if you're scrolling, there's so many 20:38 people doing so many things and like so 20:40 many visual hooks. So, you have to have 20:41 a good one too if you want to make 20:42 people stop. 20:43 >> And what goes into a good visual hook 20:45 and like what really makes people stop 20:47 scrolling on Instagram? 20:48 >> Yeah. So, I would say there's a ton of 20:51 different visual hooks and like some 20:52 people think like, "Oh, I have to do 20:54 something crazy." But you can literally 20:55 it can just be like you sitting down in 20:57 a chair, like just a motion or like what 21:00 we do a lot for clients is like if we're 21:02 doing like a personal trainer. This is 21:04 how my client went from 150 to 130 lbs 21:08 in XYZ time and like have actual like 21:10 pictures of the client's before and 21:12 after on the screen. Um, so that could 21:15 be a visual hook. um or like a above 21:19 angle. So it's like the camera's up here 21:20 instead of just like right here. So it 21:22 doesn't have to be that complicated, but 21:24 we just usually um when we're scrolling, 21:26 if we ever see a new one that follows 21:28 the 5x rule, we'll just add it to our 21:29 little sheet. But there's just a ton you 21:31 can do. 21:32 >> And for you specifically, because I 21:33 would imagine when you do this type of 21:35 service business, you can't teach 21:37 someone all the factors that go into a 21:39 video. Like you can give them the 21:40 script, the research, maybe an idea of 21:42 the format, visual hook, etc. But like, 21:45 do you think about your clothes? Do you 21:47 think about like your hairstyle? Do you 21:49 think about like the tonality of your 21:51 voice for certain things? Like how many 21:53 factors and variables are at play? 21:56 >> Yeah. Like I would say that's kind of 21:59 the hardest part. Everyone like we kind 22:02 of leave the tone and 22:05 well we'll ask clients if they want like 22:06 their scripts to be funnier, more 22:08 professional, serious, like an 22:09 authority, but 22:12 tone and like how you dress. I mean, 22:14 tone's important, but like how you dress 22:16 um and stuff like that, like it's 22:18 probably things we care about less. But 22:20 when we give a client a script, we 22:22 basically at the top we have like three 22:24 different sections. It's like the notes 22:26 section, which gives a breakdown of like 22:28 what format it is and how to film that 22:29 format. Then we have the script section 22:32 and it's just we put the script in 22:34 bullets. And how we have clients film is 22:36 we're like look at a bullet and then say 22:39 it to the camera and then look at the 22:42 other bullet then say it to the camera 22:43 and we'll cut out all the pauses and 22:45 then we have the caption um which is 22:47 just the caption we put on the 22:48 platforms. 22:49 >> And then the subtitles, how important 22:51 are like good subtitles for videos? 22:54 >> Um I mean I would say back in the day 22:57 they were like more important but now 22:59 like it just doesn't really matter. I 23:01 feel like a lot of people are tired of 23:02 like crazy stuff, but it's important to 23:05 have captions because so many people 23:08 listen. Like I think it's 80 to 90% of 23:10 people listen to content on mute. So 23:12 it's like you kind of have to have them. 23:13 >> And there's also like the if you're on 23:15 Facebook or Instagram, uh particularly a 23:18 lot of people are international, so it's 23:19 like easier for them to read English. Um 23:22 also it's really interesting as far as 23:24 like gaining followers. Like what's the 23:26 most amount of followers you've gained 23:28 from a video? It's probably that one 23:30 video I was talking about earlier. 23:32 I want to say we got 23:36 100K from that video, which is insane. 23:38 That's like that's one video out of two 23:41 years worth of posts. So, it's not 23:42 common, but you do get those outliers if 23:45 you post over a really long time period. 23:47 >> What kind of content do you have to make 23:49 to get more followers, would you say? 23:51 >> Yeah. So that video was like pure 23:54 education, you know, how to start your 23:55 Instagram, grow it from scratch, and 23:57 like step by step value, like from the 24:00 beginning up until the end. But that was 24:04 like so so valuable. 24:08 So I the typically the videos that like 24:11 are funny or memes, those will get you 24:14 views, but they're not going to get you 24:15 followers. Like people like to follow 24:17 people who give them value. That's what 24:19 I've found the most. So very valuable 24:21 educational videos. And that's why I 24:23 feel like for Mosie, for example, he's 24:25 grown so quick because all of his stuff 24:26 is so tactical. It's so actionable even 24:29 though it's kind of like more niche. 24:31 Like he's not in like a Mr. Beast type 24:33 of niche, obviously. So that's how you 24:36 grow, especially when you're a business 24:38 owner, just providing so much value. And 24:40 then how do you feel about the uh like 24:43 if I had to branch uh speaking content 24:46 into some niches, it would be like 24:48 motivational speaking content uh 24:51 entertainment and then education. Like 24:53 I've noticed that sometimes when I post 24:55 more motivational content that will like 24:57 grow in followers and then same with 24:59 education like you mentioned uh but 25:01 entertainment kind of like you said 25:03 doesn't really gain that many followers. 25:05 But how do you think about brand? Cuz 25:08 it's called personal brand launch and 25:10 it's kind of like you're helping people 25:11 go viral, get more leads, but how do you 25:13 think about like the brand portion of 25:15 things? 25:16 >> Yeah, that's a good question. 25:20 This is one like I I don't know. I have 25:22 like I think my perspective on brand has 25:26 shifted a lot, especially that I've 25:28 grown more. Like I'm a lot more 25:30 protective about what I post now. Um, 25:35 I think before like I was fine if I like 25:37 post a funny post and stuff, but now I 25:39 just like want to make sure everything 25:41 is super valuable, but I think I kind of 25:45 follow a similar ideology as Hermosi 25:47 when it comes to that where it's like, 25:49 have you ever heard him give the like 25:52 flower bouquet analogy? 25:54 >> No. It's basically like you have a 25:56 bouquet of flowers and every single 25:58 flower like kind of makes a certain like 26:02 what I like to phrase it is like you 26:03 have your main niche which is like it 26:05 could be fitness and then you have like 26:07 your subniches which is like 26:09 weightlifting, cardio, um maybe it's 26:12 like a fun one where it's like I don't 26:15 know maybe you make like protein 26:16 desserts or something and whenever like 26:19 people think about you they just 26:21 associate you with all these things. I 26:23 think that's just kind of how I see a 26:25 brand. When someone looks at someone or 26:27 a company and they just associate it 26:29 with certain things, 26:30 >> I guess more tactfully with you, I see 26:33 like all your videos are very colorful. 26:36 Uh you usually wear like a comfy looking 26:39 hoodie with comfy looking sweatpants. Um 26:42 like 26:42 >> the captions look as though they're 26:44 handwritten or something. Uh or the 26:46 subtitles. Um how do you think about 26:48 like those things? 26:50 >> Yeah. So, I mean, brand's all about 26:51 consistency, and I think really with 26:53 social media, as long as you show up as 26:56 like you, you'll be just on brand all 26:58 the time. So, like sweatuits, I have um 27:02 a Nike sweatuit and probably 15 27:04 different colors for summer and for 27:06 winter, like each, so probably 30. I 27:09 have sweatuits. I have a black sweatuit 27:11 and like I have five versions of their 27:13 black sweatsuit. I wear it so much. Um, 27:16 but that is on brand for me because that 27:18 is just me. Do you just like get really 27:20 cold or is Milwaukee super cold? 27:22 >> I'm cold all the time and I live in 27:23 Wisconsin so wow I just said that 27:26 totally like 27:27 >> Wisconsin. 27:28 >> Um but yeah, it's cold there all the 27:30 time. But it's great. It's kind of like 27:34 the weather here kind of reminded me of 27:35 it. Like 70 while the UV is like 10. 27:37 That's what we've been getting lately 27:38 and it's been pretty nice. 27:40 >> H interesting. So okay, just congruency 27:44 in what you do dayto-day with what the 27:47 social media looks like. Is there any 27:48 part of your life that you don't kind of 27:50 show on social media as much? 27:53 >> Um, I mean, I I pretty much talk about 27:56 most parts of my life, but I would say 27:58 my relationship is probably like the 28:00 least I talk about, but I still bring it 28:02 up sometimes. 28:03 >> And you were telling me that Ben also 28:05 runs a business. Um, I'm just curious to 28:08 hear about his business as well. 28:10 >> Yeah. So, Ben started a lawn and 28:12 landscape company when he was 13. Now, 28:15 he also has no plowing for the winter. 28:17 But yeah, he is kind of like the same 28:20 deal. He gets like reoccurring mowing 28:23 clients, so it's like a good reoccurring 28:25 revenue. He has three crews that just go 28:29 out and do the stuff and then he does 28:31 like landscaping projects as well. So 28:33 those can be like 10 to 25k jobs. 28:35 >> And then what's kind of your guys's 28:37 routine or like what does your daily 28:39 routine look like? I've seen 28:40 >> you wake up at 3:00 a.m. have this 28:43 really insane discipline. 28:45 >> Yeah. So, it's even worse now. For the 28:47 past year, I've probably woken up at 28:49 like 12 a.m. every day 28:51 >> because I'm a psychopath. But, um 28:53 >> 12 a.m. 28:54 >> Yeah. 28:55 >> So, I had so much work to get done 28:57 before I came here. I woke up at 11:30 29:00 yesterday. 29:01 >> 11:30 p.m. 29:03 >> That's when you woke up. So, you're 29:04 pretty tired right now? 29:06 >> No, I'm good. I'm used to this. 29:07 >> Chilling. Okay. 29:08 >> Yeah. So, basically, I will get up at 29:11 12:00 a.m. I will work for about like 4 29:14 to 5 hours and then I wake Ben up and 29:17 then we go to the gym. Um, we do like 29:20 we'll lift. Um, and then afterwards 29:23 we'll come back and he gets ready and 29:25 leaves for work cuz obviously a lot of 29:27 his stuff's out on the field and he's 29:29 not completely out of his business yet. 29:30 Um, he still helps his landscaping crew 29:32 a lot. So, he's pretty much gone um 29:35 until two and then I'm home pretty much 29:38 all day. Uh just I mean in the morning 29:41 I'll do my deep work and then during the 29:42 day I usually do a lot more admin tasks, 29:45 management, 29:46 um just kind of like what needs my 29:48 attention at the moment cuz obviously 29:50 when you're CEO your days never really 29:52 look the same. You just go where you're 29:53 needed. But then around three is usually 29:58 like when I'll start winding down. Ben 30:00 will come home. He might have some like 30:02 quotes later on, but I will just 30:05 literally rot the rest of the day. I 30:06 will read a book. I will watch TV or 30:08 I'll hang out with Ben. Um, just because 30:11 I usually stop when I'm kind of like 30:12 burnt for the day. 30:14 >> So, why do you wake up at midnight every 30:16 day? 30:17 >> Um, honestly, I've just found like I've 30:20 done a lot of different things and 30:21 that's just what I found works for me. 30:23 Even though it sounds psychotic, I'm so 30:25 used to it because I've been waking up 30:27 since like at least 3:00 a.m. since I 30:29 was 15. 30:31 um just to get and get the real estate 30:33 stuff done before school or um at the 30:35 time like when I first started I was 30:37 like the type who would read all the 30:38 books before getting started. So I'm 30:40 used to getting up early. Um but it's 30:43 just the one time of day where nobody 30:46 bugs me. Not even Ben. Like he's still 30:48 sleeping and I actually can just get 30:52 everything done. 30:53 >> And what does your deep work look like? 30:54 Like the first four hours of your day. 30:56 >> It's just whatever is going to grow the 30:57 business the most. So it might be making 31:00 SOPs. It might be making content for PBL 31:03 like scripting. Um or it might be hiring 31:06 like going through applications. It just 31:09 depends on like what's going to grow the 31:10 business the most at that moment. 31:12 >> And like what do you not outsource? Like 31:14 what are the things you do yourself? You 31:16 said it's hiring SOPs. Like you actually 31:18 go through and make the SOPs and you go 31:21 through and hire every employee in the 31:22 business. uh not as much anymore, but I 31:26 would say with agencies in specific, if 31:30 you don't use your agency, you have a 31:32 problem. Like you need to use what you 31:36 are trying to sell. So, a lot of that 31:38 stuff, like we even have our clients 31:41 like review their own scripts to make 31:42 sure it's good. Like I'll still review 31:43 my scripts and stuff, make sure that's 31:45 good. Review like edits before they go 31:47 out. But um I would say for now what I 31:51 haven't outsourced yet is people 31:54 creating the SOPs. Like I'm insane. It's 31:56 like every single mouse click of a 31:58 process I will have written down 32:01 >> just so it's not messed up. And I have 32:03 the written versions of every SOP and 32:05 like also the video version of every SOP 32:08 like doing the process. So I have always 32:12 done that but I am in the process of 32:16 hiring a director of operations just 32:18 someone who can do that. 32:19 >> And what have been the most important 32:21 hires in your business that have like 32:23 really scaled it? 32:24 >> Yeah. So I think with agencies 32:27 as I we were kind of talking about 32:28 earlier quality when you scale an agency 32:33 I think your success is based off of the 32:36 talent you hire and a lot especially 32:39 because this industry is pretty new like 32:41 coming up in the past decade 32:43 it's really hard to find good people so 32:46 you just have to have good pay and a 32:49 good team that's motivating each other 32:52 but I would say like the most important 32:55 part of having a successful agency 32:57 that's good at scale is just hiring 32:59 really good people with very niche skill 33:02 sets. So like ideiation for example, 33:05 that's something I'm hiring for right 33:06 now 33:08 and it's just something I've been trying 33:10 for I think two months, but this is 33:12 normal for these like niche roles. uh 33:14 just putting out an application every 33:17 single weekend to try and find someone 33:19 and like you'll always eventually find 33:21 someone. But you just it's all about 33:23 volume and just getting enough 33:24 applications and just finding that that 33:26 one person. 33:27 >> Is that ideation for your brand or for 33:29 your clients? 33:30 >> Clients cuz I do a lot of it right now 33:32 and that's why I work so much. 33:34 >> So you're coming up with the ideas. So 33:36 you're looking at the outlers and then 33:38 kind of coming up with an idea based off 33:40 that or what do you mean? 33:42 >> Yeah. We have like researchers who will 33:44 research it and then I'll just review 33:46 the client's onboarding document. I'll 33:48 review the research and I'll kind of 33:51 create ideas. So, I'll do like, okay, 33:54 this is what I want the hook to be. This 33:55 is what I want the value to look like of 33:57 the video. Now, here's also the format I 34:00 want. And then we'll give it to the 34:01 copyriters. 34:03 But it's super unsustainable like 34:05 because we have so many clients. So, 34:07 that's why I also kind of have to get 34:10 up. Um, but we're definitely looking to 34:13 get people, but I'm not going to let 34:15 that go until I find someone who's like 34:17 me. 34:17 >> I would guess that a bottleneck you 34:18 might have, and correct me if I'm wrong, 34:20 is 34:20 >> that was such a bottleneck. 34:21 >> Uh, that the virality portion, like for 34:25 your clients to get really good results, 34:27 I I would guess that the scripts that 34:29 have done really well or the videos that 34:30 have done really well, you've had at 34:32 least some involvement in those 34:34 particular scripts and like you reviewed 34:35 them or is that not the case? 34:37 >> No, it is. Um because right now I'm in 34:40 almost every script set like that we 34:42 have that's going out. And like I think 34:45 something as a business owner I've had 34:47 to learn is like I mean I was out of the 34:49 business for a while but then I saw 34:51 results drop after I got out. So I had 34:53 to go back in and now we have to hire. 34:55 Like I just have to be more intentional 34:56 with hiring. But because we're missing 34:58 that person right now I'm still in every 35:01 single day. 35:02 >> So that's 30 scripts for each client a 35:04 month. 35:04 >> It's either 15 20 or 30. 35:07 >> Okay. So 20 and then 400 clients. That's 35:12 what 8,000 scripts a month. 35:14 >> Yeah. It's like super unsustainable. 35:16 >> And do you like go through all those? 35:18 >> So basically for the ones I can't do 35:20 ideations on, I review after they're 35:24 done and I'll just make replacements if 35:25 that's needed cuz like our copyriters 35:27 are still like good at ideiation, but 35:29 like obviously I've been doing it like 35:31 the most I have the brand. So yeah, but 35:34 if they have the hooks and they have the 35:36 client, like they can still make great 35:37 scripts and then you just make some 35:38 adjustments after. But I have one other 35:41 person on my team, Jane. I love her. Uh 35:44 she's like the same skill set as me. Um 35:47 and she helps a ton on the reviews and 35:49 she's the only other person I trust to 35:52 like do that without my review after. 35:55 But both of us combined like we are both 35:58 at our breaking point. 36:01 >> Yeah. I mean, it sounds like a I what 36:03 I'm impressed with with your business is 36:06 that you haven't um gotten shiny object 36:08 syndrome and been like, "Let me just 36:10 drop a course. Let me drop something 36:11 that everyone can buy a million times." 36:13 And I'm sure you think about it every 36:14 day when you're reviewing all these 36:15 scripts, but like what's kind of kept 36:17 you from doing that and like looking at 36:20 other options? 36:21 >> I know if I like I want to make this 36:24 service like perfect before I ever do 36:26 something else. like I want to make it. 36:28 I just want to be the go-to short form 36:31 content, you know, creation agency for 36:34 business owners. And I just will not 36:37 stop until that's the case. And that 36:38 just means literally refining the 36:40 product and making it better every 36:42 single day. And until I feel like it's 36:44 perfect, I probably won't do anything 36:46 else. And I'm very like picky. Like 36:48 yesterday I got 36:52 it's kind of an odd situation but Adobe 36:56 they like wanted to become part of like 36:57 the editing part of the service 37:03 but I just said no even though it was a 37:05 lot of money and it I mean Adobe's great 37:08 but I just like I don't want anyone to 37:10 have any like control over it. Like I 37:12 just want it to be mine and I just want 37:14 to make it perfect, but I don't want 37:16 like any other service or product I 37:19 could make to like take my time away 37:21 from doing that. 37:22 >> So, what are you guys using to edit the 37:23 content? 37:24 >> Uh, we like 37:28 uh Da Vinci, Premiere Pro. I mean, we 37:32 use a mix of different ones, but like 37:34 basically we have editors are are like 37:38 our mo we have out of like all of our 37:40 1099s, editors are the most cuz like 37:43 editing is so timeconuming and until AI 37:45 can like fully do it, we still need a 37:47 ton. And we just basically rank our 37:52 editors like, okay, they can do basic 37:54 edits, they can do medium edits, or they 37:55 can do like really good ones. Um, and 37:58 then whatever. Like we just have like a 38:01 for we have a ton of different editing 38:02 styles and when a client comes on with 38:04 us, they can choose from like a bunch or 38:06 they can find one off like on their own 38:09 and then we'll just do it. 38:10 >> What's the most common editing style 38:12 people request? Is it like, oh, I want 38:14 it to look like Iman Godzi or Alex 38:15 Ramosi or 38:16 >> uh it used to be Alex, but I think it 38:18 kind of went out of style like his old 38:20 old captions if you know what I'm 38:21 talking about 38:22 >> with the emojis and stuff. Yeah. Um, but 38:24 now I would say a lot of people actually 38:26 go for more simple captions like you 38:29 know what Leela does where it's like 38:30 kind of like on her on her talking head 38:32 videos. She does just like does very 38:35 simple captions and people like 38:36 >> little light ones. Okay. 38:37 >> Yeah. But we also have like a lot of 38:39 other ones too um that people like that 38:42 are more complex. But I wouldn't say 38:44 it's like they're not like 38:47 I can't think of anyone who like would 38:52 like like it's not like a herozi style. 38:54 It's not 38:56 um one of the big ones, but they're just 38:58 like kind of like their own customized 39:01 ones that we get a lot as well. But 39:03 yeah, they'll pick one of those and then 39:05 we will get the we have like all the 39:07 editing styles ranked and then we'll 39:09 just give, you know, a basic edit to a 39:11 basic editor. um and kind of like medium 39:15 edit to medium editor and you get the 39:16 idea. But we just have the editors use 39:20 whatever they like and as long as it 39:22 looks like the reference then it's fine. 39:24 >> So for someone who maybe can't afford 39:27 your service or like you couldn't work 39:29 with them for whatever reason, what 39:32 employees would they need to hire? What 39:33 process would they need to do for 39:35 growing their personal brand? Let's say 39:37 they wanted to do just 39:39 >> fitness educational content. 39:42 Yeah. So, basically what I would do is 39:44 obviously make your Instagram account. 39:47 Um, but I would say the first thing is I 39:50 explained the research method earlier. 39:52 So, I would do that, but I would also do 39:54 one other research method, which is you 39:56 go on Instagram, go to the explore page, 39:58 you hit the search bar, and then you 40:01 just type in your niche. So, if it was 40:03 like dog training, you just type in dog 40:05 training. Or you could create like I 40:07 like to create like five to 10 keywords 40:09 that relate to that. And then once you 40:12 search it, you click the reals tab. And 40:13 I wish I could show you this visually, 40:15 but then you will just come across 40:18 literally like the most viral hooks in 40:21 that niche. And if you like scroll on 40:24 that reals tab after you do that keyword 40:26 research, you want to look through all 40:28 the videos that have over a million plus 40:30 views and just save the hooks that you 40:31 would use. And then typically what I do 40:33 is I just make sure they follow the 5x 40:36 rule and then I'll add them onto a 40:37 spreadsheet. And then those are like 40:41 I mean Instagram SEO kind of sucks but 40:43 like 40:44 >> it really does. Yeah. 40:45 >> Yeah. I mean Tik Toks is really good 40:46 compared to Instagram but I don't like 40:48 to use Tik Tok as a reference cuz 40:50 Instagram is harder to go viral on. So 40:52 like I like to use Instagram for 40:54 ideiation better. But yeah that's 40:57 probably the research I would do along 40:59 with like finding the top 10 to 20 41:01 creators. And then after basically 41:04 basically what I do for clients, I would 41:06 just write probably a batch of like 15 41:09 to 30 scripts with, you know, the viral 41:11 hooks, the viral topics, but with your 41:13 own, this is so important. You don't 41:15 want to copy viral videos. That will 41:17 just make you look like a fraud. So you 41:19 want to add your own like value in the 41:21 meat of the video. So your own 41:23 actionable advice. So, like if you're a 41:25 dog trainer, you want to show people how 41:27 to teach their dog step by step how to 41:29 sit or like I saw this one girl do like 41:32 how I taught my dog to shut the door and 41:33 I thought it was like the coolest thing 41:35 and she gave you the stepby-step advice. 41:37 I hate or I don't hate but like when 41:40 people give like fluff, it just never 41:43 works. I mean, it doesn't never work, 41:45 but it just is a lot harder to go viral 41:48 when you're giving fluff um than opposed 41:50 to like actionable value that people can 41:52 actually take away right away. 41:54 So write scripts with your own expertise 41:56 and experience um on how to get you know 41:59 people XYZ result. Make 15 scripts um 42:02 use different formats. Test everything 42:04 out on your account. So if you are 42:06 starting from scratch, I like to try a 42:07 bunch of different topics, a bunch of 42:08 different formats in your niche and then 42:11 you post like 50 to 100 videos. Try and 42:14 post every single day. And then 42:15 basically after 50 to 100 videos on a 42:18 new account, you can kind of see, okay, 42:20 what worked better, what formats worked 42:22 better, what hook hooks worked well, 42:24 what topics worked well, and then you 42:26 just start doubling down on, you know, 42:29 those hooks, formats, and topics. And 42:31 you just keep doing that over and over 42:32 again, and you will grow over time. 42:35 >> I want to ask about two things. The 42:36 first is the fluff portion. Can you 42:38 define what you see as fluff in most 42:41 content? because this is something I 42:42 have to help a lot of people with when 42:43 they ask me for advice on their videos. 42:45 But I'm not just cutting things that 42:47 aren't valuable. I'm cutting things that 42:50 aren't valuable and things that aren't 42:52 interesting. Like both of those two 42:53 things. But how do you think about it? 42:55 >> When I think of like fluff, 42:58 um, let's see. Like fluff to me and like 43:02 I'm pretty picky. Like I like things to 43:04 be really specific. But if I'm a 43:06 personal trainer and I'm giving advice, 43:08 I'm like, "Okay, walk every day, lift 43:11 every day, eat healthy." But like 43:13 actionable value would be walk 10k steps 43:16 every single day. Do this exact 4day 43:19 split. Um, and then like have them show 43:21 the split. Um, or like for calories like 43:26 use this tde calculator online. Subtract 43:29 2 to 300 calories. Uh, that's your 43:31 calorie deficit. eat this every single 43:33 day, eat one gram of protein per pound 43:35 of body fat. Like it's very clear what 43:38 they need to do and like they want to 43:40 save that stuff cuz it's actually 43:41 helpful. So it's like that's what I 43:45 would say fluff versus real value is. 43:47 >> Interesting. So just be as specific as 43:49 possible and as helpful as possible. How 43:51 about when you're telling like a story? 43:53 Like if you were to tell us the story of 43:56 >> how you did this at 20 years old. um 43:59 like what do you consider fluff in that 44:01 instance? 44:02 >> So yeah, I like consider educational 44:05 content and storytelling content 44:06 completely different. 44:07 >> Okay. 44:07 >> But basically in our client scripts, if 44:09 they have the 20 scripts package, we 44:12 will have four storytelling scripts and 44:14 16 educational. 44:16 >> I think storytelling they do well, but 44:18 like it's there's it gets it can get 44:22 repetitive, so we don't like to do as 44:23 much. But people love like my story 44:27 videos or just like how they grew, like 44:30 how they grew or their personal 44:31 transformation. Yeah, people love that 44:33 stuff. And I wouldn't consider like that 44:36 stuff fluff if you're telling a story, 44:38 but like educational content is where 44:40 you see the fluff. But storytelling is 44:42 completely different. Um, I think you 44:44 can be a lot more like as long as you're 44:46 vulnerable and you know there's a good 44:49 payoff at the end of your story, it 44:50 could do really well because it's 44:52 definitely been more popular lately. 44:54 >> If you could give us an example like 44:56 what's a story you find yourself telling 44:58 all the time like when you meet people 45:00 like here's how I grew this business. 45:02 >> It's the one I already told. It's like 45:04 the 45:05 >> cuz people always ask like oh how do you 45:06 get into this? Um, so I would just tell 45:09 them like, "Oh, I started in real 45:11 estate, da da da da, posted content, did 45:13 well, got into this." 45:16 >> So, yeah. 45:17 >> And why do you choose like those parts 45:18 to include? 45:20 >> Is there like any thought to that? 45:22 >> I would say mainly because they're all 45:25 just vital to telling the story. Like I 45:27 got into real estate and because I saw 45:29 all these other big real estate people 45:30 like I want to start posting on social 45:32 media. It did really well and I was 45:34 like, "Wow, real estate sucks. this is 45:37 fun. I'm gonna do this instead. 45:39 >> Yeah, I did notice how you crafted the 45:41 story. I was like, it's very interesting 45:42 like the parts she left out, but it's 45:44 the most crucial thing needed to 45:47 understand it well. Um, another thing I 45:50 wanted to ask you about with your 45:51 clients. So, you do 15 to 30 videos for 45:54 them a month. Do you ever think that if 45:57 you did like a couple videos for them, 46:00 like the more experienced one, if you 46:01 just did like four really good videos, 46:03 that would be better? And just like how 46:04 do you think about quality versus 46:06 quantity in general? 46:08 >> Yeah, I think about that all the time. 46:11 Um, I would say like 46:14 I try to treat the 30 videos like I was 46:17 doing four, if that makes sense. Like I 46:20 don't like to give a client a script 46:21 unless I feel proud of it 46:24 and that makes it so much more time 46:27 consuming. But I do think like if you 46:30 really did just hone in on four, I think 46:32 personally 46:34 I wouldn't like that because you're not 46:36 testing as much. You're not seeing what 46:37 works as much. So I think it might 46:39 actually be worse cuz if you can just 46:42 test a bunch and then just study what 46:43 works and then double down on that, like 46:45 I think that's way better. 46:47 >> And when do you ever like are there any 46:49 videos that you put a significant amount 46:50 of time into that it's been worth it or 46:52 is it usually just not worth it? I would 46:55 say a like every single one of my 46:57 videos, there's so much time into it. 46:59 But 47:01 I think the videos I spend the most time 47:02 are when I find like real life examples 47:05 of the point I'm trying to make cuz like 47:07 you have to go find the case studies and 47:10 leave really good editing notes and 47:11 stuff. But it always makes it worth it 47:14 because people get the visual and they 47:16 can actually see it and it's not just 47:17 like words they're hearing. So I would 47:19 say it's worth it. 47:20 >> And then tell me about some of your 47:21 clients uh that you've worked with. What 47:23 have been like some crazy success 47:25 stories? Does any I'm guessing this is 47:27 the case, but do any of your clients 47:28 make like significantly more money than 47:30 you from the service? 47:32 >> Yeah. So, there's one in particular. Um, 47:36 there was this one I was nervous to take 47:38 on. His name's Carl and he's like an 47:42 older gentleman, probably like 65. He 47:45 has like 10 kids, but that's not 47:47 relevant. It's cool. But yeah, he is in 47:51 the franchise niche. And the reason I 47:54 was nervous was because I don't know 47:56 anyone in the franchise niche. I tried 47:58 to do research and like there wasn't 48:00 really anyone. So, I was like skeptical, 48:01 but I was like, "Okay, I'm just going 48:03 to, you know, really really try on these 48:05 and like I basically just researched 48:07 other niches and try to convert it to 48:09 his." 48:10 >> And franchising is 48:12 >> like he basically is a franchise broker. 48:14 So he works with like a ton of popular 48:16 franchises and then he works with 48:20 clients and tries to get them or like 48:22 suggests certain franchises that would 48:24 work for them and if they start it he 48:25 gets a commission. 48:26 >> So like Wendy's Chick-fil-A or like what 48:28 kind of franchises? 48:29 >> Like those but not Chick-fil-A. They're 48:31 like very like in-house kind of and very 48:33 selective. But like I'm trying to think 48:36 like Great Clips Molly Made. There are 48:39 some restaurants but can't really think 48:42 of off the top of my head. But then 48:44 basically what we did is cuz he was 48:47 starting from scratch too, but we looked 48:50 at like a ton of different niches as I 48:51 said, did research and then converted 48:53 them over to his and we did like videos 48:55 like 48:58 or Burger King or um like Crispy Cream 49:01 or Duncan and like just like those 49:03 comparison videos I would say. Well, we 49:05 posted like 3 months worth of content 49:08 and we were like under 100 followers and 49:10 I was like what the heck? but it's also 49:12 just kind of part of having a new 49:14 account. So then on our fourth a new 49:16 account. So then on our fourth month we 49:18 got our first viral video. I think like 49:20 9 million views and it was breaking down 49:24 how much you make owning a McDonald's 49:26 franchise I think. And we took that 49:30 exact video script and format and then 49:32 just replaced the restaurant in it and 49:36 it just kept going viral and viral. So 49:38 then we also 49:40 um took that original viral video and we 49:43 made it into an audio B-roll video and 49:45 that one got like 10 million views. And 49:47 we have just kind of started replicating 49:49 that format and then like pinning to um 49:53 different franchises against each other 49:55 to show you what makes more money. And 49:56 like those three things consistently go 49:58 viral for him. So now that we have that, 50:01 we just every single month script videos 50:03 that are different versions of that with 50:05 a CTA that leads to, you know, uh his 50:08 like franchise broker stuff. So yeah, 50:11 and he like basically makes like 60K for 50:14 every single person he gets and he gets 50:17 like hundreds of leads. So, 50:18 >> and what does he do exactly? like he'll 50:21 take someone and be like you'd be good 50:22 for this franchise and 50:24 >> broker the deal or 50:25 >> so like his target audience is people 50:26 who are in 9 to5 like manager positions 50:30 and could just manage our own franchise. 50:32 >> Do you know how much he's doing roughly? 50:33 >> No, I don't. But I know like sometimes 50:36 he'll just text me like, "Oh, we got 50:39 five deals this week and that's like 50:43 >> 300k." Yeah. 50:44 >> Oh my gosh. Geez. Uh, and then has there 50:47 have been any other success story that 50:48 stands out to you like um of someone 50:50 that took a while to grow? 50:53 Um, I would honestly say, I mean, I have 50:56 some that like grew really quick, some 50:58 that took a while, but I would say 51:00 another person that took a really long 51:01 time was myself 51:03 >> when I first started my Well, I 51:05 originally I have like a personal 51:06 account and then a business account and 51:08 I started posting the social media stuff 51:10 on my personal account and it just like 51:13 wasn't aligned with my business content. 51:15 So, it didn't do well. And you'll find 51:17 that when you try to post a new niche on 51:19 a profile you already built up 51:21 surrounding a niche, it just doesn't 51:22 work. Um, so 51:25 I started a different business, 51:27 Instagram, or personal brand launch, and 51:30 I think 3 months it was the same thing, 51:32 just like under 100 followers, posting 51:36 every day. And then the fourth month, I 51:38 got my first viral video. And same deal. 51:42 It's just the same thing that happens 51:43 every time when you make a new account. 51:44 takes a while, but you'll eventually get 51:47 your first viral video and then you just 51:49 double down on that. That is how you 51:51 grow a page. 51:51 >> Is there anything ultra specific that 51:54 feels like a hack on social media? Like 51:57 anything with trial reels, anything 51:58 you're doing with testing on TikTok? 52:01 Like I know a lot of people do multiple 52:02 pages for testing with different types 52:04 of hooks, like a bunch of crazy stuff. 52:06 But is there anything like that that 52:07 you've looked at recently? I wouldn't 52:09 say recently, but I think for a long 52:12 time we were one of the not the first 52:14 agency, but we were one of the I guess 52:17 first short form agencies to really take 52:20 research serious. Like we have always 52:22 been doing like 10 to 12 hours of 52:24 research a month to like every single 52:27 month too. It's not like just the first 52:28 month. And like we just do that 52:31 religiously so we can study what works 52:33 and we also just double down on what 52:34 works and researching and doubling down 52:36 on what works for that person. It just 52:39 does wonders. That's like all you need 52:40 to do. 52:41 >> It's funny you say this. I mean I'll 52:43 probably cut this out but maybe not. Um 52:45 just like a lot of the secret sauce of 52:47 why this podcast has done well is 52:49 because I noticed I was like I asked all 52:51 the other big podcasters because I kind 52:53 of knew them. It's like how much 52:54 research do you do like to craft the 52:57 clips ahead of time? and they're like, 52:59 "Oh, no. We don't even think of it like 53:00 that." I'm like, "Oh, well, you can just 53:02 find a guest." Like, let's say you went 53:04 on another podcast, had a viral clip, 53:06 just take the exact same hook and get 53:08 them to retell the story differently. No 53:10 one does that. Can you believe that? Um, 53:12 it's been a major attribution to any 53:14 views I've gotten on this podcast. But, 53:17 um, I definitely agree with you that 53:18 research 53:20 >> goes a long way. And for for YouTube 53:22 specifically, do you like I I I think 53:25 YouTube and short form can be really 53:27 similar, but people will find like 53:30 outliers on like even smaller pages and 53:32 then like use those titles and 53:34 thumbnails. Do you ever do that? 53:36 >> 100%. 53:36 >> Yeah, I think that's so important. 53:38 >> Definitely. Uh yeah, the thumbnail 53:40 outliers is where this all started. Like 53:42 view stats by Mr. Beast has been super 53:45 helpful um for coming up with stuff. But 53:48 >> is that like so on Instagram we have 53:50 like something called sort feed 53:52 >> and it's like it like will automatically 53:54 sort someone's videos on their profile. 53:56 Oh that's maybe my hack then. 53:57 >> Yeah. 53:58 >> So there's this thing it's called the 53:59 sort feed extension. It used to be free. 54:02 It's like it turned like $40 for like 54:04 it's a lifetime. Like you'll get it for 54:06 your life if you pay 40 bucks and it's 54:07 so worth it. But if you go on someone's 54:09 Instagram page and you click reels, you 54:12 can click the little puzzle piece in the 54:13 corner of your screen and you can 54:16 basically select, you know, 100, 500, 54:18 all of their reels and it will sort them 54:20 from most to least viral. 54:22 >> We use this. Yeah. Okay. 54:23 >> Did you make a video about this? 54:24 >> Yeah, 54:25 >> that's why I use it for sure. 54:27 >> I use it every day. 54:29 >> Yeah, it's awesome. But is like that 54:32 what view stats is for YouTube? 54:34 >> View stats is a little more interesting. 54:37 Um, but that tool is really helpful 54:39 because no one has built anything for 54:41 Instagram that can sort the videos. Uh, 54:43 but and then Tik Tok recently came out 54:45 with a thing where you can sort people's 54:47 profiles by most liked or most viewed, 54:49 etc. But view stats like you can search 54:53 >> uh like a good example, I had this 54:56 thumbnail um of a guy holding up a 54:59 hoodie and it said $500 million a year 55:02 um because like he has a brand called 55:04 Comfort Clothing that makes 500 million 55:06 a year. I have like literally seven 55:08 other sweatsuits. 55:09 >> That's interesting. I was wondering if 55:11 you wore those because like Yeah. Um 55:12 >> I wear Nike for like videos, but I have 55:15 a ton of theirs. 55:15 >> Yeah, comfort's nice. But um essentially 55:18 we took that thumbnail and then post it 55:20 on view stats and it will show other 55:22 things of people holding up hoodies or 55:24 holding up t-shirts with text on them. 55:26 And then we kind of reorganized the 55:28 thumbnails based on the outlers. Um or 55:31 if you I don't know search certain 55:33 keywords like body fat, it'll show all 55:35 the outlers for body fat and then you 55:37 can make it specific to a podcast. Um 55:40 >> but yeah, I mean if I like I use it for 55:42 short form content too because if you go 55:44 on YouTube, find an outlier, you can 55:46 kind of take that as a visual hook, 55:48 >> you know what I mean? 55:49 >> Yeah, I do that too actually. I'll find 55:51 like those on YouTube where they have 55:53 like obviously they went very viral for 55:55 like a small account and we will use 55:57 like their thumbnails can be really 55:58 great visual hooks or like their titles 56:01 can be good verbal hooks or written 56:02 hooks. 56:03 >> H how important is the thumbnail for 56:05 Instagram? 56:05 >> Not important. I mean like yeah people 56:08 might see it on the explore page and 56:09 click it but like I have never like 56:12 intentionally made a thumbnail in my 56:13 life. 56:13 >> And then so you're 20, you make $700,000 56:16 a month. How do you invest this money? 56:20 Yeah, I invest it into index funds. 56:24 >> Boring answers of the best. Um, index 56:27 funds. Gotcha. Just and that's it. 56:29 Nothing else. 56:30 >> Yeah. I mean, obviously like I don't 56:33 like I don't take out much money from 56:35 the company. I take out me and Ben split 56:38 our expenses and it's like 2500 a month 56:41 each for each of us. And then I also 56:45 take out 5K to invest in index funds 56:48 because if I invest 56:51 until I retire, which I'll never retire, 56:53 but if I invest until like I don't know, 56:54 let's say like 65, then I will have 25 56:57 million. If I just keep investing my 56:59 five grand into index funds and I could 57:02 double that and I could do 10 grand a 57:04 month and I probably retire with like 57:05 double if I start now. So it's boring 57:09 but it works. 57:10 >> Yeah. So, okay, that's pretty frugal, I 57:14 would say, to have 5K, 57:15 >> but I live in Wisconsin, so 57:17 >> yeah. 57:18 >> Yeah. 57:18 >> Just you see all these other uh 57:20 20-year-old millionaires like doing all 57:22 this crazy stuff, traveling the world, 57:24 spending 100K at the club or on villas, 57:27 etc. Um, has that just never like 57:30 aligned with you or anything? Like, 57:32 >> is there anything that you purchased 57:34 that was material that was a bit 57:35 expensive? 57:36 >> Honestly, never. I mean, like besides 57:40 like the investment properties, 57:42 but I drive like a mediocre car, live in 57:46 a mediocre ranch. 57:49 I don't know. I buy like Instacart 57:51 groceries. I don't know. Um, we do have 57:53 a nice like gym membership, but that's 57:57 pretty much it. Yeah, I think I will. I 57:59 mean, I don't know why like I've been 58:01 investing the same amount even when we 58:02 made like 50k a month. So, I just need 58:04 to up that. But yeah, I don't really 58:07 care about that stuff. I do want a nice 58:09 house one day, but I think part of me is 58:12 also just like, wow, that's like what I 58:14 want is probably really expensive. 58:16 >> H what keeps you from getting a house 58:18 right now? 58:20 >> Um 58:22 I don't know. I think it's just like 58:24 I've never bought something big and nice 58:26 like that for myself. So I think part of 58:28 me just isn't ready. 58:31 >> Yeah, I'm I'm big on not getting a house 58:33 right now. uh because it just seems like 58:36 less convenient for the business, you 58:38 know, because if you're like in an 58:39 apartment, all the things are taken care 58:42 of, all the amenities. Uh 58:43 >> like our place for instance, we have a 58:45 gym uh that's like you walk out of our 58:47 door and then it's the door to the gym. 58:49 So, I'm just like all about efficiency. 58:51 Um she really wants a house though. Um 58:54 >> but no crazy lavish expenses. What's 58:57 like something you've purchased that 59:00 like since you've had some money that's 59:01 been helpful for like investing in you, 59:04 you know, like walking treadmill? 59:07 >> Oh, yeah. 59:08 >> Like chef, personal chef, like anything 59:11 like that? 59:12 >> Um, I will say like once we started 59:15 making money, we never shop. Like it's 59:17 all Instacart, Door Dash, Uber Eats. I 59:20 will say we do cuz like some of that 59:21 stuff the business will pay for. Also, 59:24 all my sweatuits, my walking treadmill 59:27 for sure. I walk. So, I like to walk. I 59:29 like to get it over with. I'm all about 59:30 getting things over with. That's what I 59:32 think about. So, I'll walk four miles 59:35 right when I get up when I'm working 59:37 just to get it done. Um, and then 59:41 probably our gym membership. We do want 59:43 a home gym, so that'll probably be like 59:46 our next big thing. So, that'll probably 59:48 be like a couple tens of thousands. But 59:51 yeah, it's all I can really think of. 59:54 >> Were you guys athletes in high school? 59:56 >> Oh, yeah. I mean, I wasn't. I've always 59:58 like went to the gym. Um, I think I 1:00:00 started freshman year and I always just 1:00:02 did like either a four or six day split 1:00:04 and then Ben in high school, he wrestled 1:00:07 a ton. Um, he did like club and then he 1:00:13 also did school. I don't know if you 1:00:14 guys familiar with like Ben Ascrin, but 1:00:16 he's like the only big wrestler from 1:00:18 Wisconsin, but he has like his academy. 1:00:21 Um, so Ben like went there and so he was 1:00:25 really good at wrestling and went to 1:00:26 state every year. And then also 1:00:28 football. He loved football, but not 1:00:30 like enough to ever go to like college 1:00:33 for it or anything or make it worth it 1:00:34 to go to college, but uh yeah, so he 1:00:37 always did sports and then now we just 1:00:39 go to the gym together. And what's kind 1:00:40 of your uh mission or goal with all of 1:00:44 this 1:00:45 >> uh long term? I really do like what Alex 1:00:48 and Leela do, but like where they 1:00:51 obviously they're in private equity um 1:00:53 and they work with a lot of businesses 1:00:54 and help them grow um and invest in them 1:00:58 potentially that with Ben, but I don't 1:01:01 know like right now we're just really 1:01:02 loving growing our own companies. But I 1:01:04 know I probably want to have all like 1:01:07 his business and my business and other 1:01:09 businesses under a portfolio in the 1:01:11 future. So that's probably 1:01:14 5 years from now we'll start. 1:01:16 >> So you plan on doing the exact business 1:01:18 you're doing right now for five more 1:01:20 years. 1:01:21 >> I can't promise that. But like I'll for 1:01:23 sure own it for a long time but I don't 1:01:26 want to be doing like daily what I'm 1:01:28 doing right now in five years. I want to 1:01:30 grow. I want to get out of that. I want 1:01:31 to I feel like I went really hardcore 1:01:35 back into working in the business and I 1:01:37 need to get back out of it once we get 1:01:39 the right people. So that's like my goal 1:01:41 within the next 6 months. But 1:01:44 yeah, long term I don't want to just do 1:01:48 this forever. I see bigger things. I 1:01:50 want to be a billionaire. I do. I think 1:01:52 that's just like a goal because I know I 1:01:54 can do it. Not even for like the money 1:01:56 because obviously I don't even buy stuff 1:01:58 now, but just to prove to myself that I 1:02:00 can. 1:02:01 >> Okay. Would you sell the business you 1:02:03 have right now? I know there's 1:02:05 interesting multiples on uh service 1:02:08 business. Is it like 2 to 3x of yearly 1:02:10 revenue or 1:02:11 >> agencies? It's 6 to9. 1:02:13 >> It's 6 to9. I guess it's recurring. 1:02:16 Okay. I didn't think about that. 1:02:18 >> Yeah. If you have contracts, 1:02:19 >> I was thinking of coaching businesses 1:02:20 for some reason. That's a little less. 1:02:22 Um that's actually service. I actually 1:02:24 learned that at the workshop yesterday. 1:02:26 >> 6 to9x. Okay. 1:02:28 >> So, what would be your goal revenue with 1:02:29 this business before you sold it? 1:02:32 >> Oh, I want to build this to at least 1:02:34 like I want to sell it for if I did for 1:02:37 at least 100red million. 1:02:40 >> Yeah. I don't know. Like I don't I think 1:02:44 the money excites me less than like 1:02:46 being the best 1:02:49 uh for short form content for business 1:02:50 owners, but I know if we are, we'll just 1:02:53 make a ton of money. 1:02:54 >> Interesting. And what do you think would 1:02:57 aside from removing yourself from the 1:02:59 day-to-day uh stuff, like what do you 1:03:01 think would 10x the business? 1:03:03 >> Just time. I mean, it's already growing 1:03:05 so quick. Like after that video in 1:03:08 August, we were growing like we grew I 1:03:12 think like 200k just that month in 1:03:15 reoccurring revenue and like with social 1:03:18 media you just have the power to do that 1:03:20 with your business. So we can grow it 1:03:25 fairly quickly but to 10x it. Yeah. It's 1:03:27 just time and consistency. 1:03:30 >> Have you thought about moving to Puerto 1:03:32 Rico with that much cash flow? 1:03:34 >> Why? Puerto Rico. I learned this 1:03:36 recently from a guest. Uh it's the only 1:03:38 place in the US you can move to uh like 1:03:42 keep your residency and you pay I think 1:03:44 it's 3% income tax and then 0% capital 1:03:49 gains. Um maybe it's 6% but I don't know 1:03:53 what it is in Wisconsin, but it probably 1:03:55 be like 40% 50% a year goes to the IRS. 1:03:58 But 1:03:58 >> yeah, it's 40%. 1:04:00 >> Puerto Rico's 3%. 1:04:03 >> Yeah. I I if some really wealthy people 1:04:05 live there. It's a nice place. I would 1:04:06 recommend checking it out. Um there's 1:04:08 like this place called Dorado there and 1:04:10 it's Do you know the Ritz Carlton? Like 1:04:13 >> Yeah. 1:04:14 >> Um it's essentially like built by them 1:04:17 and you just basically live in this like 1:04:19 Dorado bubble of like all these nice 1:04:21 amenities, etc. Um and it's not too 1:04:24 expensive to live there. It's fairly 1:04:25 cheap. Um and yeah, you don't pay any 1:04:28 taxes. It's pretty interesting. Yeah, I 1:04:30 like my my quarterly tax bill is like 1:04:33 multiple hundreds of thousands. It 1:04:34 sucks. 1:04:35 >> Yeah, LA's pretty rough, too. 1:04:37 >> Yeah, I can imagine. 1:04:38 >> Um definitely want to get out of here. 1:04:40 But I I'm like big on if 1:04:42 >> I think I can make more money in Los 1:04:44 Angeles than like a place like Texas or 1:04:47 Las Vegas at this stage just because 1:04:49 >> primarily because I host a podcast and a 1:04:51 lot of people come through here. 1:04:52 >> Yeah. Um, people usually come through 1:04:55 Vegas, Los Angeles, and Miami, but the 1:04:57 other parts of the country they don't 1:04:59 really come to. But someone told me I 1:05:00 could move to Puerto Rico and fly people 1:05:02 out and it would be cheaper. And I was 1:05:04 like, this is true. I wanted to ask 1:05:06 about Minihat in general because you're 1:05:08 kind of one of the first people to use 1:05:09 it super effectively. Like, uh, what's 1:05:12 your Minihat system secret sauce on 1:05:14 that? That actually reminds me like this 1:05:17 is random, but I've gotten like reached 1:05:20 out to by Many Chat to work with them a 1:05:22 lot, but I just like literally anything 1:05:24 that will take me away from PBL will 1:05:26 like I just won't do it. 1:05:28 >> But anyway, I use them cuz I love them, 1:05:29 but I never like do affiliates or 1:05:31 anything. But Many Chat, like Do you 1:05:34 want me to break it down just in case? 1:05:35 >> Yeah. Yeah, for sure. 1:05:36 >> Okay. So basically what many chat is is 1:05:38 when people say as like a call to action 1:05:42 on Instagram, comment the word cake and 1:05:45 I'll send you you know whatever. So it's 1:05:47 when you like share like lead magnets 1:05:49 with people or you know freebies, 1:05:52 landing pages about your service and 1:05:54 it's like the best way to get leads from 1:05:58 Instagram because people will just 1:05:59 comment that word and then they will get 1:06:00 automatically sent a DM from you to that 1:06:03 link. 1:06:03 >> How do you use it differently than other 1:06:05 people? um like in a more effective way 1:06:08 like is there anything like in the 1:06:09 funnel specifically? 1:06:10 >> Yeah. So, I would say like 1:06:14 I I think a big part of like why I grew 1:06:17 really fast during some periods is cuz 1:06:20 like sometimes I just use ManyHat a lot 1:06:22 more and I'll create a lot more freebies 1:06:24 and especially when you create a really 1:06:26 really good freebie that like was 1:06:28 clearly like it took you a lot of time 1:06:30 and it's not just something that you can 1:06:31 make in chat GBT or something you can 1:06:34 like is a Google search away like those 1:06:37 are so valuable and 1:06:38 >> what's an example of one of yours? 1:06:39 >> Yeah. So, I think one of them that took 1:06:42 me so long was it's called an a 1:06:44 thousand. It was like it's a freebie 1:06:45 with a thousand hooks. So, it's like a 1:06:48 thousand videos that follow the 5x rule 1:06:50 that are like good educational content 1:06:52 examples from business owners and then 1:06:55 like those hooks templatized so people 1:06:58 can use them themselves. So, like it has 1:07:00 the link to the viral video and then the 1:07:02 template templatized hook for a 1:07:03 thousand. 1:07:05 And that like actually making that 1:07:07 probably taught me the most about 1:07:08 content I've ever learned. But yeah, 1:07:11 that um took probably like 300 hours to 1:07:15 make cuz you had to scroll like I had a 1:07:17 bunch saved of reals I love and a huge 1:07:20 bank of those, but I was super selective 1:07:22 about what I put on the freebie. I 1:07:24 probably scrolled through like 20,000 1:07:26 videos to find, you know, the other like 1:07:29 700 I needed. That's a really good one 1:07:31 because I saw people after you did that 1:07:34 uh start selling ebooks of that and 1:07:36 running literally copy and pasted. 1:07:39 >> That makes sense. Yeah, that's the thing 1:07:41 about a lead magnet is people can just 1:07:43 monetize it differently than you and 1:07:44 steal it 1:07:45 >> because you're giving it away for free. 1:07:47 Huh. 1:07:47 >> Do you run any ads? 1:07:49 >> No. 1:07:51 >> Yeah. 1:07:51 >> Jesus. Sorry. 1:07:53 >> Yeah. Do you just like like what's the I 1:07:57 might cut this out, but just like my 1:07:58 genuine curiosity is like what's keeping 1:08:01 this from like being bigger? Like do you 1:08:04 have too many leads and you can't like 1:08:07 fulfill on all of them? 1:08:08 >> It's really just about me getting out 1:08:10 cuz like right now 1:08:13 like I will always work as much as 1:08:14 needed to get it done but like there's 1:08:17 only so much I can work. So 1:08:19 >> why don't you charge more? 1:08:21 >> I could. I just I don't I don't know. I 1:08:25 mean, I raise my prices quite 1:08:26 frequently, so I've raised them 1:08:29 probably. 1:08:31 They've probably doubled in the past 1:08:34 6 months. 1:08:35 >> So, it's 6K now or 1:08:37 >> No, I actually I want to say year. So, 1:08:40 it used to be like half of what it is 1:08:42 now. But also, we've built out the 1:08:44 service a little bit more. So like we 1:08:47 like to do for example like we'll do 1:08:49 setup many chat for you and um we had to 1:08:53 add like customer success managers so we 1:08:55 added in like milestones checking calls 1:08:57 cuz that's what people really wanted. So 1:08:59 it's built out more so we also had to 1:09:01 charge more but the price has probably 1:09:03 doubled in the past year but like I 1:09:05 don't know I feel like we're at a good 1:09:08 price point but I know I could charge 1:09:09 more if I wanted. 1:09:11 >> Interesting. 1:09:12 >> Yeah 1:09:12 >> cuz I I tried to sell like a similar 1:09:15 thing. I just tried to sell the coaching 1:09:16 aspect. Um, and like I was trying to 1:09:20 charge people like 1:09:22 70 80 like 90k packages over like 6 1:09:24 months. Uh, cuz I've had a lot of 1:09:26 success coaching people in the past. Uh, 1:09:28 but 1:09:29 >> it essentially what I realized was the 1:09:31 price wasn't an issue for them, but what 1:09:34 they wanted was services. So, I was 1:09:35 like, I could literally sell like 1:09:38 services similar to yours for like 80k. 1:09:41 So, I just like I think I got on a call 1:09:43 with one of your sales reps way back 1:09:44 just to see what the pricing was and I 1:09:46 was like, "It's only $3,000." There 1:09:48 hasn't been anyone that you've sold like 1:09:49 a super high ticket package to. 1:09:52 >> No, like anytime someone comes to me for 1:09:54 like coaching or anything, like I hate 1:09:58 calls. 1:09:59 >> I don't do calls. Like even this is like 1:10:01 wild for me. Yeah. 1:10:02 >> Um, so I try to do calls as little as 1:10:04 possible and like I just I just like 1:10:08 helping people like do the grunt work 1:10:10 and the service and like I feel like 1:10:13 with business owners too, they want 1:10:15 people just to do it for them. 1:10:17 >> Exactly. 1:10:17 >> Yeah. So that's why the done for you 1:10:19 model works so well. But I think we will 1:10:21 probably raise their prices again soon 1:10:23 just because 1:10:25 I do like the clientele that we get with 1:10:27 a higher price point. They kind of get 1:10:29 it more. Um, and I love the people who 1:10:32 just like trust us to do what we do best 1:10:35 and like don't I guess like try to redo 1:10:39 all the work. Like I said earlier, like 1:10:40 everyone thinks they're a great 1:10:41 marketer. Like 1:10:42 >> they just trust us. They trust the 1:10:44 research we've done. They trust the 1:10:46 scripts and they just trust the process. 1:10:48 >> Do you have any churn or do you have 1:10:50 like any failures? I'm assuming it's 1:10:52 like a little bit but not much. 1:10:53 >> I mean, every agency has churn. And I 1:10:56 think with content, organic content, 1:10:59 it's something that takes time. So like 1:11:02 when we have people churn, it's because 1:11:04 of two reasons. One, they just don't 1:11:07 want to wait. But like remember how I 1:11:09 was telling you it took Carl and myself 1:11:12 3 months to get our first multi-million 1:11:14 view viral video. Well, those changed 1:11:16 our accounts and our businesses and our 1:11:18 lives, but most people can't wait three 1:11:21 months. Um, with like when you're 1:11:24 starting a new account and you need to 1:11:25 consistently post, when you have like a 1:11:27 bigger account, we can just study what 1:11:29 already worked for you and do research 1:11:30 based off that. Like we can grow you 1:11:32 faster. But if you're starting scratch 1:11:33 from scratch, like people um who aren't 1:11:36 willing to wait, they might churn. And 1:11:39 then also like the only part of our 1:11:42 service that isn't done for you is the 1:11:43 filming because it's their personal 1:11:44 brand. So people who just don't end up 1:11:47 filming. 1:11:48 >> Have you thought about doing the filming 1:11:50 part for them or is that pretty 1:11:52 logistically tough? 1:11:53 >> I mean because it's their personal brand 1:11:55 like it just wouldn't make sense like 1:11:57 because it's more so like them just not 1:11:58 wanting to be on camera 1:12:00 >> or I guess sometimes it's not. It's them 1:12:01 not having the time. But like, yeah, 1:12:04 some people just like 1:12:07 can't can't film. They just don't like 1:12:09 it. 1:12:10 >> Interesting. I'm guessing it's a lot on 1:12:12 the iPhone. I've ran into a lot of 1:12:14 people who are like, "Oh, like I need 1:12:15 someone like a video crew around me all 1:12:17 the time." I'm like, I don't think you 1:12:18 would do well. 1:12:19 >> Yeah. I film all my stuff on my phone. 1:12:21 >> Yeah. 1:12:21 >> Yeah. Even my VSSL. Like 1:12:24 >> what I'm so impressed by you just from 1:12:25 personal perspective is like I have the 1:12:28 worst shiny object syndrome ever. Uh 1:12:31 which is why I did a podcast cuz it was 1:12:33 like like how can I be like find out 1:12:37 about people's businesses um like new 1:12:39 ones all the time just cuz I crave like 1:12:41 this novelty but um like it's just so 1:12:45 impressive that you just dialed in on 1:12:46 this one thing and take nothing. Like 1:12:48 where do you get that from you think? 1:12:50 >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I feel like there's like 1:12:52 I feel like every entrepreneur has ADHD, 1:12:54 but I feel like there's two types where 1:12:56 it's like one's kind of like shiny 1:12:57 object and then the other one is like 1:12:59 hyperfixation. 1:13:01 And like I'm the type of person where I 1:13:03 will eat the same things every day. I'll 1:13:05 wake up at the same time every day. I 1:13:07 will watch the same shows over and over 1:13:09 again because I know them. I'll read the 1:13:11 same books over again. Like I am just so 1:13:13 used to like I don't know. I hyperfixate 1:13:15 a lot and I think that's why. But also 1:13:18 it scaled so big. So now I like I don't 1:13:21 have any desire to like start anything 1:13:23 else from scratch. I mean in the future 1:13:26 yeah 1:13:27 um that business with Ben. But 1:13:29 >> what kind of people do you look at for 1:13:31 just general business advice for 1:13:33 mentorship uh for social media 1:13:36 understanding virality like who are you 1:13:38 looking to there? Yeah, I would say like 1:13:42 business-wise for Mosy obviously. 1:13:45 And then 1:13:47 for 1:13:49 um social media, a lot of it is just 1:13:52 like consumption, but scrolling 1:13:54 intentionally versus like 1:13:56 subconsciously. 1:13:58 Um and then there's this one 1:14:02 girl on Instagram. She's like or on 1:14:05 YouTube. She's kind of like a hidden 1:14:06 gem. I feel like she does not get the 1:14:08 credit she deserves. But she breaks down 1:14:11 specifically YouTube content so well, 1:14:13 but a lot of it transfers over to 1:14:15 shorts. Her name is April Lynn Alter, 1:14:18 and you should check her out. Like, 1:14:20 she's insane. Like, her videos are so 1:14:22 value packed, and it like motivates me 1:14:24 to do the same with short form content. 1:14:26 Like, when you watch her video, it's 1:14:28 like the most valuable thing you've ever 1:14:29 seen. I can't explain it. You just have 1:14:31 to watch it. 1:14:32 >> Interesting. Do you have any like 1:14:33 particular bits that you've learned from 1:14:35 her or is it really just how she crafts 1:14:37 the videos themselves that you're 1:14:38 looking at? Yeah. So, I always 1:14:41 understood the concept of outliers on 1:14:43 people's page, but like she kind of came 1:14:45 up with that term and she does the exact 1:14:48 same thing on just YouTube and like I'm 1:14:51 like and she talks about formats on 1:14:54 YouTube all the time and like all that 1:14:55 stuff just transfers over to content and 1:14:58 like I've always understood like the 1:15:00 concept of formats and stuff but like 1:15:01 she kind of put it into actual terms. 1:15:05 >> Mhm. 1:15:05 >> We were talking about shiny object 1:15:07 syndrome a minute ago. Like what have 1:15:08 been some of your shiny object syndromes 1:15:11 you've had in the past year with this 1:15:13 business? Like I know Tik Tok shop is 1:15:15 really big. There's like softwares you 1:15:17 could do a course. Like what have been 1:15:19 some things that you've been tempted to 1:15:20 do but maybe just um you haven't really 1:15:23 thought about it. 1:15:25 >> Um I would say like I'm pretty loyal to 1:15:28 like I'm like super loyal to everything 1:15:31 but this business I'm very loyal to and 1:15:33 like I don't have too much of that. But 1:15:35 I will say the only other thing I have 1:15:38 kind of like wanted to do but I know it 1:15:40 will take time away is like starting a 1:15:42 YouTube channel about short form 1:15:44 content. There's one person I really 1:15:45 like. His name is Callaway and he's like 1:15:48 I say in like the past few months he's 1:15:50 recently started posting and he's 1:15:53 already grown his channel like 60k. Um 1:15:56 and he does it really well. And 1:15:59 obviously April and Alter who I 1:16:01 mentioned earlier, like she does it so 1:16:02 well and like I would love to do that 1:16:04 and I know it would probably get a ton 1:16:06 of leads as well cuz like long form you 1:16:09 just build a different type of trust 1:16:10 with people. So I think it would work 1:16:12 really well but 1:16:14 I don't know. I just 1:16:16 I've also been advised by people like oh 1:16:18 no you shouldn't do that. So I'm like 1:16:20 okay. 1:16:21 >> How about organizationally? Like um what 1:16:23 are some how do you organize your 1:16:25 business to like scale? Yeah. So, I 1:16:28 would say like I know this is just so 1:16:31 like scrappy, but Google Drive, we have 1:16:33 all of our SOPs in Google Drive. We have 1:16:36 all of our client scripts, our client 1:16:38 videos, files. Like every client gets a 1:16:40 folder. It has their unedited content 1:16:42 folder, their edited content folder, 1:16:44 their scripts folder, and then like um 1:16:48 we do stories for some people too like 1:16:51 um and we'll just use ManyHat through 1:16:53 that as well. So their stories folder 1:16:55 and it's just like very neat in there 1:16:58 and we'll have like in those folders 1:17:00 will be like May 2025, March 2025. So it 1:17:03 just all kind of like lines up. But 1:17:05 yeah, pretty much Google Drive and then 1:17:09 softwares that I use would be like go 1:17:11 high level um for a CRM. Many chat 1:17:14 obviously pretty simple obviously like 1:17:16 Google Drive, Gmail. 1:17:17 >> Do you have any advice for posting on 1:17:19 social media? Like uh do you make sure 1:17:21 the people are in the US? Do you make 1:17:23 sure it's like an iPhone posted at 1:17:24 certain times, like that kind of stuff? 1:17:26 >> Yeah. So, all of our account managers 1:17:28 like are US-based because of that 1:17:30 reason. Um, because it's just for the 1:17:34 best if the IP is in the US. Um, and 1:17:37 then I used to be actually like a huge 1:17:39 proponent of manually posting. Uh, 1:17:42 because I always did like different 1:17:43 split tests with like different third 1:17:44 party platforms, meta and then manual 1:17:47 and manual always outperformed. But then 1:17:49 a month ago, I redid it with Meta and it 1:17:52 was the same. 1:17:54 >> So, everyone on my team loves me now 1:17:56 because they don't have to manually post 1:17:57 anymore. 1:17:58 >> That's good to know. My team will 1:18:00 probably like that as well. Um, 1:18:01 >> yeah, I like never trusted it. And I But 1:18:04 like Meta, it was the same cuz I did it 1:18:06 on my account, too. I was like, "Okay, 1:18:07 if I'm going to try it, I'll do it on 1:18:08 mine." And it was the same. Yeah, that 1:18:11 was a big one for us on I can't remember 1:18:13 what platform specifically didn't work 1:18:15 when the IP was outside of the US or No, 1:18:18 it was it was like we would use a VPN 1:18:21 but the SIM and the iPhone wasn't from 1:18:24 the US. I think it was YouTube and Tik 1:18:26 Tok it didn't work well but Instagram 1:18:27 and Facebook was fine but now I just 1:18:29 make sure it's all posted in the US 1:18:32 except except for Facebook and Snapchat 1:18:34 spotlight I think. Um 1:18:36 >> but are you posting on Facebook pretty 1:18:38 consistently? Um, yeah, but I have like 1:18:41 the automation set up. So, if it just 1:18:43 like if you post on your Instagram, it 1:18:44 will automatically post on Facebook. 1:18:46 >> Huh. Interesting. We We set it up to 1:18:50 where it's differently posted, but it's 1:18:53 because you can put a link in the 1:18:55 Facebook caption. Um, which is like a 1:18:58 huge conversion thing. She actually 1:18:59 taught me that. Um, 1:19:01 >> you know what? I'm going to I'm just 1:19:02 going to write that down really quick. 1:19:03 Just give me a second. So, what exactly 1:19:06 do you do? Yeah. So, you can post on 1:19:08 Facebook the link for whatever you're 1:19:10 promoting. Like, say it's this podcast, 1:19:12 I could post a clip of us and I could 1:19:14 put the cap the link directly in the 1:19:16 caption for it. 1:19:17 >> Okay. And that's like, is that a real or 1:19:18 just a post? 1:19:19 >> Uh, either or. Yeah. Can do reals. 1:19:21 >> Oh, wow. 1:19:22 >> But it's crazy. 1:19:23 >> I have to post that on on Instagram. Be 1:19:25 like, "Hey guys, you can do this." 1:19:27 >> Yeah. And then you can also do pin 1:19:28 comment on Facebook um with the link in 1:19:31 there, which is nice. You used to be 1:19:32 able to do that on shorts, but 1:19:34 >> can you get ManyHat to work on Tik Tok? 1:19:36 >> That's new. Yeah. Um, as of like two 1:19:39 months ago, I haven't set it up yet. 1:19:42 >> I haven't been able to get it to work, 1:19:44 but I know it would like crush if I 1:19:46 could 1:19:46 >> cuz no one's doing it, you know. Um, 1:19:48 >> that's what I was thinking about with 1:19:50 Tik Tok shop, too. I wanted to launch 1:19:51 like a some low ticket product just to 1:19:53 push my videos more because if you 1:19:56 scroll on Tik Tok, I don't know your 1:19:57 opinion on Tik Tok versus Instagram. I 1:19:59 don't like Tik Tok anymore. 1:20:00 >> I don't I don't like Tik Tok. I don't 1:20:02 even use it. 1:20:02 >> Yeah, cuz you scroll and there's um 1:20:07 it's only like edits because they're 1:20:09 trying to push cap cut um like cap cut 1:20:12 templates and then it's 1:20:14 >> um 1:20:14 >> just Tik Tok shop ads and then it's 1:20:16 sponsored post and then occasionally 1:20:18 you'll see like a viral video or like a 1:20:20 normal viral video that's not an ad. 1:20:22 >> But Instagram it's like there's no ads 1:20:23 on it. There's no shop. Um, a big one 1:20:26 too is I think they silence so many, 1:20:29 this is just my opinion from like having 1:20:30 a predominantly male audience. Uh, like 1:20:33 they silence so many conservative 1:20:34 creators on Tik Tok and like anyone in 1:20:36 the conservative politics side or like 1:20:38 any like alpha masculine stuff that they 1:20:41 all went to Instagram. So like Tik Tok 1:20:43 is kind of girls um and then Instagram 1:20:46 is kind of guys. I don't know. 1:20:48 >> I agree with that. 1:20:50 >> Yeah. But I think Instagram, this isn't 1:20:52 a word, but I think Instagram is like 1:20:54 Tik Tokifying itself. I think the value 1:20:56 of a follower has decreased cuz I think 1:20:58 more people treat the reals tab like a 1:21:02 for you page 1:21:04 >> and it's kind of getting like a little 1:21:07 more like Tik Tok. I would think 1:21:08 Instagram your followers are way more 1:21:10 valuable than they are on Tik Tok. Cuz 1:21:12 on Tik Tok people will follow you but 1:21:13 they only go on the for you page. So 1:21:15 they won't like see you really ever 1:21:17 again. But Instagram followers a little 1:21:20 bit more loyal. But I think the real tab 1:21:23 is kind of turning into the for you 1:21:24 page. 1:21:25 >> Yeah, I agree. 1:21:26 >> But I still think like Instagram all day 1:21:29 like will change your business. So yeah, 1:21:32 >> YouTube shorts sucks. My personal 1:21:34 opinion. I don't know. 1:21:36 >> Actually, I just hit 100K in my personal 1:21:38 YouTube. Can't wait to get my plaque. 1:21:40 >> Nice. Um but yeah, the YouTube algorithm 1:21:43 is so weird. It doesn't make any sense. 1:21:46 I do think too like I've seen people 1:21:48 ruin their YouTube pages from posting 1:21:50 shorts and getting followers from shorts 1:21:52 that like they're they won't watch their 1:21:54 long form videos so they won't get 1:21:55 pushed out. 1:21:56 >> 100%. I mean me me the big mistake I 1:21:59 made with this podcast is that I had a 1:22:01 crime niche and then I didn't make a new 1:22:03 channel. Um you probably saw that and 1:22:05 were like what is this guy doing? 1:22:06 >> No. My dad So my dad was like so he's 1:22:08 like into crime and I was like no he 1:22:10 used to do that. Like it's not like that 1:22:12 anymore. Well, the goal of the podcast 1:22:14 originally was to do famous crime cases 1:22:18 of people, but I couldn't get anyone. 1:22:21 >> So, I just switched it to business. 1:22:23 >> So, it just became business. I was like, 1:22:25 I'm more more interested in business 1:22:26 anyway. 1:22:27 >> Mhm. 1:22:28 >> And then some videos started to work, 1:22:30 but even my viral ones, like I have a 1:22:32 couple podcasts with like a million 1:22:33 views, and they all the viewers are old 1:22:38 viewers from the crime channel, which is 1:22:40 so strange. It's just people who so 1:22:42 happen to watch that video. 1:22:44 >> Yeah, YouTube algo is kind of strange. 1:22:46 How important are Instagram stories? And 1:22:48 do you have any like advice for 1:22:49 Instagram stories? 1:22:51 >> Yeah, so 1:22:53 I like I love Instagram stories. I think 1:22:55 they're the best way for leads and like 1:22:57 you can be pretty salesy on stories cuz 1:22:59 like your uh most loyal followers are 1:23:02 going to be looking at your stories 1:23:03 every single day. So, if you post 1:23:05 personal content and then also just 1:23:08 social proof of results your product or 1:23:10 service has gotten before and after 1:23:12 pictures, not written, you will get 1:23:14 leads if you just link your landing page 1:23:16 or you put a many chat CTA on the story. 1:23:19 So, I would post a story a day with some 1:23:22 sort of social proof or before and after 1:23:25 or lead results of clients. 1:23:27 >> What's the most amount of money you've 1:23:28 made from an Instagram story? Oh, it's 1:23:31 like very like I would say 1:23:34 500 clicks a day is like what I get from 1:23:37 stories to the landing page and like 1:23:39 it's just so consistent. I I I don't 1:23:42 know the exact metrics on what that 1:23:43 converts into. We are setting up 1:23:45 tracking right now, but that is one I 1:23:48 should set up because I don't know, 1:23:50 >> but it could be maybe 3,000 6,000 a day 1:23:53 if those clicks led to one client, 1:23:55 something like that. 1:23:57 >> Okay. And then stories. Um, do you have 1:24:00 like an email list set up? 1:24:02 >> Yeah, but I don't I don't really do it 1:24:05 very often. I should do it like I should 1:24:06 be better. I have an email list and for 1:24:09 a while I did it like weekly, but I just 1:24:13 kind of stopped writing emails. 1:24:14 >> Yeah, it it's something someone was 1:24:16 telling me to do cuz it's a valuable way 1:24:18 to own your audience. 1:24:19 >> It is. It is. And I know I should do it 1:24:21 and the Hermosi team always says to do 1:24:23 it, but I I 1:24:25 >> Do you collect emails on the landing 1:24:26 page? 1:24:27 >> Mhm. So for like some freebies, I will 1:24:29 just link directly to like the freebie 1:24:31 so they can get it right away. But for 1:24:33 like the a thousand hooks one, they have 1:24:35 to opt in. So that's where we will 1:24:37 collect the emails. 1:24:39 >> Did you Were you the person that made 1:24:40 the video that it was like it might have 1:24:42 been someone else. It's like here's how 1:24:43 you set up a mini chat automation that 1:24:45 makes them follow you first. 1:24:46 >> No, I haven't done that. 1:24:47 >> Gotcha. That was something I did 1:24:49 recently that started converting crazy. 1:24:51 >> I had no idea that was a thing. Is that 1:24:54 a thing? Okay, I'm writing this down, 1:24:56 too. Okay. 1:24:58 >> Um, yeah. 1:24:58 >> Wow, that's crazy. 1:25:00 >> I did that on the Hormosi when he collab 1:25:02 posted me and I was gaining 1:25:04 >> that video got like 3 million views, 1:25:05 right? 1:25:06 >> So, the original account it was gaining 1:25:10 like it had a million in 2 hours. Um, 1:25:12 and he collab posted it and then it 1:25:14 started gaining me like 2,000 followers 1:25:17 every like 10 minutes. Um, and then the 1:25:19 account got banned that day and I was 1:25:21 like, geez, that was so inconvenient 1:25:23 timing. But 1:25:24 >> yeah, I changed it. It used to be like 1:25:26 collect an email um for the newsletter, 1:25:28 but I was like, I'd rather have people 1:25:30 follow me. 1:25:31 >> Wow, I did not know that was a thing. 1:25:32 So, they just have to follow you and 1:25:34 then they get the freebie or what? 1:25:36 >> Yeah, it's like um make sure you're 1:25:38 following me so I can send this to you 1:25:40 and then 1:25:41 >> Oh, so it's like is it is it like um a 1:25:44 button they have to click or is it just 1:25:45 like a message and once they follow you 1:25:47 it will trigger? 1:25:48 >> Yeah. Yeah. So, it's if they don't 1:25:50 follow, um, it goes, "Make sure you're 1:25:52 following me so I can send it to you." 1:25:54 And then they click just followed after 1:25:55 they do it and then they get it 1:25:57 >> and then if they already follow you, 1:25:58 they get it right away. 1:25:59 >> Yeah. 1:25:59 >> Okay. Wow. That is so genius. 1:26:02 >> Yeah. Um, that's been pretty helpful for 1:26:04 us. But do you have any uh just personal 1:26:08 curiosity like ideas for marketing a 1:26:11 podcast uh with short form content? Like 1:26:13 how would you be thinking about it? 1:26:15 >> I would do exactly what you're doing. 1:26:16 clipping like collabing with the people 1:26:19 because especially because of the like 1:26:21 highc caliber guest you have on. 1:26:23 >> How do you feel about the uh I've been 1:26:25 making it was for my old page but I've 1:26:27 been making some content that's like uh 1:26:30 here's what Alex Ramoszi taught me in 1:26:32 144 minutes or like this is what I I 1:26:34 flew to Vegas to see Alex Ramos and 1:26:36 here's what he told me. Like do you 1:26:37 think those videos are important for 1:26:39 getting people to care about long form 1:26:41 content or do you think just the clips 1:26:43 is what you would think about? No, 1:26:44 >> I would do a mix of both. 1:26:46 But I mean, how many videos of those 1:26:49 have you done in the past and how have 1:26:50 they done? 1:26:51 >> I've done like five or six marketing 1:26:54 videos and they all got like several 1:26:56 hundred thousand or like a million 1:26:57 views. 1:26:58 >> Okay. If it's working then just double 1:26:59 down on it. 1:27:00 >> Yeah. I I just I couldn't tell if like I 1:27:03 think about congruency a lot. Like 1:27:05 people see this thing and they want more 1:27:06 of this thing. So I'm like how does me 1:27:08 talking about doing a podcast make them 1:27:11 want to watch it? I guess was my 1:27:12 thought. But I don't know. 1:27:15 I guess just a general question like how 1:27:16 do you make people care about you and 1:27:18 like how do you build like a cult on 1:27:21 social media? 1:27:22 >> Yeah. 1:27:22 >> Or do you just think about it from um 1:27:24 this is the video convert to this 1:27:26 funnel? I would say 1:27:29 obviously make valuable educational 1:27:32 content, but like if you look at Hermosy 1:27:35 for example, he like is just or Leela 1:27:39 like they are just people. You get to 1:27:41 love their personality and like all 1:27:43 their little quirks and over time like 1:27:45 you learn so much from them and like you 1:27:48 just know them for certain things and 1:27:51 that's kind of like how you make people 1:27:53 love you. just showing your personal 1:27:54 like your personality in your videos, 1:27:57 just not being fake. 1:27:58 >> Like the sweatuits and stuff like that's 1:28:00 just my thing. And I think those little 1:28:01 things just add up. But like you have to 1:28:04 you have to post for a long time and you 1:28:08 just have to be consistent with the 1:28:09 things you do. But like I think those 1:28:13 little things that people notice that 1:28:14 just is comes with like posting for 1:28:16 years. 1:28:18 >> Mhm. 1:28:19 But I like I'm trying to think of a good 1:28:21 example like there's this one girl in 1:28:24 the fitness niche I love because in her 1:28:27 videos she talks about like volume 1:28:29 eating for example but she'll like post 1:28:32 like or she'll add little like meme 1:28:36 what are they called like sound effects 1:28:38 within her videos and it just makes it 1:28:40 so funny and like you can just tell 1:28:42 she's a funny person. She has like a 1:28:43 very strong Irish accent and like I've 1:28:46 only seen like three of her videos, but 1:28:48 that made me follow her cuz I just kept 1:28:50 seeing it and I I don't really follow 1:28:52 many people and like just those little 1:28:54 things um just made me like really like 1:28:56 her personality even though she was 1:28:58 sharing the same advice as a lot of 1:28:59 other people. 1:29:00 >> Do you think those things are important 1:29:02 for making money though? Like the having 1:29:06 different elements of your brand? I 1:29:07 talked to Alex about this and I was 1:29:08 like, "Do you think it makes you more 1:29:10 money that you talk about fitness um and 1:29:14 like your nutrition and what kind of 1:29:16 clothes you wear?" Um, and he kind of 1:29:19 hinted at no, not really. 1:29:20 >> Yeah, cuz he used to post more about 1:29:23 that stuff, but then he basically said 1:29:27 he got the least amount of leads from 1:29:29 that stuff. So, I think really obviously 1:29:32 focusing on your niche and your content, 1:29:33 but adding those little things in within 1:29:35 like videos about your main thing. So, 1:29:38 like I talk about Ben occasionally, but 1:29:42 only in videos that primarily are 1:29:44 talking about like what I do or business 1:29:48 cuz I never want people to follow me 1:29:49 just for Ben because that's not what I 1:29:51 post about. 1:29:52 >> How do you use AI in Chad GBT to go 1:29:55 viral? Um, I would say the biggest 1:29:59 mistake is using it to write your 1:30:00 scripts. Um, we'll see people doing that 1:30:03 a lot. 1:30:04 You can use it for research. I think 1:30:06 it's great for research, but using it to 1:30:08 write your scripts, I wouldn't recommend 1:30:10 unless like you completely refine it 1:30:12 after. But I think it's great for 1:30:14 research or for example we'll do like 1:30:17 clone videos where it's like you're 1:30:19 comparing like I said like with Carl the 1:30:22 two franchises and you're getting all 1:30:23 the numbers and it's like okay you have 1:30:25 Burger King, you have McDonald's, you 1:30:27 need to like how much do you have to 1:30:28 invest in each franchise up front. 1:30:30 What's the first year of revenue look 1:30:31 like and all these things you can just 1:30:34 type in like a prompt and it will just 1:30:37 give you that information right away 1:30:38 instead of having to manually research 1:30:40 it like on 50 different sites. So yeah, 1:30:43 it makes research a lot faster. 1:30:45 >> How about you specifically for your 1:30:47 business? Like what's been the most uh 1:30:50 useful way you've used AI? It might be a 1:30:53 similar answer, but like how do you use 1:30:54 it on a day-to-day basis? 1:30:56 >> Yeah. So for copywriting research, but 1:30:58 for editing, I think it's super it's 1:31:00 super helpful. And I think I'm excited 1:31:02 for it to get to a point with editing 1:31:04 where, you know, it will cut down the 1:31:07 process and the time a lot more because 1:31:08 I feel like editing still takes forever, 1:31:11 especially with more customized editing 1:31:13 styles. But auto captions, that was 1:31:16 already a huge game changer and that 1:31:18 came out like years ago. So yeah, it's 1:31:21 only been getting better, but I'm 1:31:22 excited for the day where it can take 1:31:24 over editing. 1:31:25 >> What does it do for you now? just 1:31:26 automatically cut the silences or 1:31:28 >> um I would say like auto captions and 1:31:30 then some editing styles it can do but 1:31:32 you have to kind of refine it a lot 1:31:34 after um but it's been helpful with that 1:31:38 but since like short form is kind of 1:31:40 different like I could see it in a long 1:31:42 form podcast cutting out all the 1:31:44 silences or the ones that like 1:31:45 automatically switch the camera to 1:31:47 whoever's talking can be so helpful. 1:31:49 >> Yeah, that's that's how we've used it 1:31:50 particularly. Um I'm kind of picky with 1:31:53 it though and tell my editors to redo 1:31:55 it. There's one called Autopod that's 1:31:57 fairly good. 1:31:57 >> Oh, 1:31:58 >> yeah. I have someone in the podcast 1:32:00 niche and we literally just wrote a 1:32:01 script about that, 1:32:02 >> like how to use it. But yeah, 1:32:05 >> interesting. 1:32:05 >> And like what do you think? 1:32:08 >> Yeah, it's just uh 1:32:10 >> it's not it's not great cuz I'm just 1:32:12 picky about how I want it. 1:32:13 >> Like I want like I think about a lot of 1:32:15 content from the emotional perspective. 1:32:17 Like if I say something profound, 1:32:20 >> I would have the camera cut to your face 1:32:22 there. But the AI is not going to do 1:32:23 that automatically, you know, um because 1:32:26 >> like the good content is in things that 1:32:29 AI can't pick up right now. I wish there 1:32:31 was prompts you could write 1:32:33 >> like uh edit this video and remove 1:32:36 anything that's like emotionally 1:32:38 uninteresting and like I wish it could 1:32:40 pick up things like that. Um or like 1:32:42 remove everything about this topic or 1:32:46 remove like when they speak in this 1:32:48 tone. Um that kind of stuff would be 1:32:50 nice with AI. But 1:32:52 >> have you played with any of like the 1:32:53 Google VO uh stuff yet? 1:32:56 >> No, I haven't. 1:32:57 >> Gotcha. Yeah, I played with that 1:32:58 yesterday or the day before. Um 1:33:00 >> what exactly is that? 1:33:01 >> It basically it's the first AI that can 1:33:04 make videos from prompts with speech. 1:33:07 >> Oh. 1:33:07 >> So I could like make a video of us 1:33:09 talking on this podcast. It wouldn't 1:33:11 look like us. Um but it could say things 1:33:14 in a very conversational way. Um you 1:33:16 used to be like you could do that before 1:33:18 but you would have to like use different 1:33:19 softwares. But it's the and labs and 1:33:21 stuff. 1:33:21 >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 1:33:22 >> But it's the first time that you can 1:33:24 like straight prompt to videos of people 1:33:26 like interviewing each other or like 1:33:28 talking about a product. Um 1:33:30 >> it's kind of scary. 1:33:31 >> Yeah. You I'll have to show clips of it. 1:33:34 Uh it's really like realistic looking. 1:33:36 Um 1:33:37 >> yeah, I've seen I saw this video today 1:33:39 and it was like so random. It's like a 1:33:42 2023 AI video of Will Smith eating 1:33:46 spaghetti and the 2025 version. And it's 1:33:49 crazy like how much AI's improved. 1:33:52 >> What's one small detail in a video that 1:33:54 makes a huge difference? 1:34:00 >> I would say 1:34:02 getting to the value as quick as 1:34:04 possible. 1:34:06 Obviously that kind of sounds so 1:34:07 obvious, but a lot of times with short 1:34:09 form content, people will say the hook 1:34:10 and then they'll say like four other 1:34:12 things and then they'll get into the 1:34:13 value. Just get to the value straight 1:34:15 away right after the hook. And then 1:34:17 also, I guess just some more little 1:34:18 things, making sure like putting your 1:34:20 script in Hemingway, which is just a 1:34:22 site and you can make it under a fifth 1:34:24 grade level so a lot of people can 1:34:26 understand it. And then also cutting out 1:34:28 like kind of similar to my first point, 1:34:30 but all the fluff. So every single 1:34:33 unneeded word or sentence, just cut out. 1:34:37 >> Mhm. 1:34:38 >> Why the fifth grade reading level? 1:34:40 >> Because people are stupid. Like most 1:34:41 people are stupid and they won't 1:34:43 understand it. So just make it dumb. And 1:34:46 then why like fifth grade specifically 1:34:48 though? Like 1:34:49 >> because most people like statistically 1:34:51 in the US are under a fifth grade 1:34:53 reading level. 1:34:54 >> Yeah, that is why. 1:34:56 >> Yeah. So you got engaged at 16. 1:34:58 >> Mhm. 1:34:59 >> Do you think everyone should marry their 1:35:00 high school sweetheart? 1:35:01 >> Oh, hell no. No. Uh I just think I got 1:35:05 so lucky with Ben. It's just so rare to 1:35:09 meet someone young who is literally like 1:35:12 the boy version of you. um who loves 1:35:16 business, who loves working out, who is 1:35:19 also kind of introverted, 1:35:21 who just has the same like religion, 1:35:25 political beliefs, literally everything 1:35:27 the same. Um so we kind of knew right 1:35:30 away like we did all this hard stuff 1:35:32 together. We all had all the the same 1:35:34 values. We were each other's best 1:35:36 friends. So it's like who else would I 1:35:38 ever marry in my life than Ben? So it 1:35:41 just made sense. But I I think if like 1:35:44 you just like love each other or you're 1:35:45 just attracted to each other, which 1:35:47 that's like a lot of what high school 1:35:49 relationships see and you don't have 1:35:50 like other things, then no. 1:35:53 >> What are the benefits of getting married 1:35:55 so young? 1:35:56 >> Um 1:35:59 I mean a lot of people were like why? 1:36:02 But we were just kind of like why the 1:36:03 hell not? Um, 1:36:06 I don't think there's like 1:36:09 specifically 1:36:11 I don't know like special benefits about 1:36:12 getting married young, but it's just 1:36:14 like something beautiful about 1:36:15 committing yourself to one person for 1:36:17 the rest of your life and just like 1:36:19 knowing 1:36:21 that, you know, I just knew from the 1:36:23 start obviously that me and Ben were 1:36:25 going to be together for life, but I 1:36:28 think it was just such a rare situation. 1:36:30 >> Yeah. 1:36:30 >> When did you first meet him? 1:36:32 >> Uh, 14. He like was like the new guy at 1:36:35 school freshman year. So yeah, snatch 1:36:38 that up. 1:36:40 >> So funny. It reminds me of my friend 1:36:43 Bailey in high school. Um she there was 1:36:46 this new guy at school and she was like 1:36:48 14 and all the girls were talking about 1:36:51 him and she's like Dibs. And then she 1:36:53 like went up to him and they dated from 1:36:56 >> age 14 all the way to uh like through 1:36:59 high school and then they got married 1:37:00 like as soon as they got out of high 1:37:01 school. and like she was just so like uh 1:37:03 locked in on him. Um 1:37:05 >> exactly the same. 1:37:08 >> What's something you had to unlearn 1:37:10 about content that you used to think was 1:37:12 true? 1:37:14 >> Think on this one. 1:37:18 >> Yeah. So, I used to think that you had 1:37:21 to make videos like 1:37:23 complex, I guess. Well, you're like 1:37:26 sharing the value, but like you need to 1:37:28 make it 1:37:30 you need to shove as much value as you 1:37:32 can in a video. I used to think like you 1:37:34 had to make content that was super super 1:37:36 high value that no other people were 1:37:39 talking about and 1:37:42 you just got to dumb it down. Kind of 1:37:44 what I was saying earlier, but you just 1:37:46 don't want to make it complex. You don't 1:37:47 have to sound super smart like when 1:37:49 you're trying to do it. That's not the 1:37:50 goal. The goal is to get the viewer to 1:37:52 understand what you're talking about. So 1:37:54 just weigh dumbing it down and not 1:37:56 shoving so much value in a video but 1:37:57 just focusing on one concept and making 1:37:59 it really easy to understand. 1:38:01 >> People don't care how smart you are. 1:38:03 >> Yeah. No one cares. 1:38:04 >> They just want to like get the value 1:38:06 from the thing. 1:38:08 >> That's a good one actually. Um 1:38:10 >> yeah, cuz we've had people come to us 1:38:13 and they just want to speak in like 1:38:16 their target audience is like lingo, but 1:38:19 they might not know the lingo or they're 1:38:20 like, "We have to make this for one 1:38:23 person, but they're treating it like 1:38:26 ads. This is organic social media. You 1:38:28 have to be super broad so you can appeal 1:38:29 to a ton of people and then you niche in 1:38:31 the CTA, but people are going a niche 1:38:34 hook." So they're like, "Uh, do you have 1:38:37 back pain?" and you're like, actually, 1:38:38 no, that's not a good example. It's um, 1:38:41 you know, do you live in, you know, 1:38:43 insert small town in your whatever. 1:38:46 Like, you don't want to do that. This is 1:38:47 not an ad. Like, you want to start off 1:38:50 very broad. 1:38:52 They call it like the broad narrow niche 1:38:53 framework. A super broad hook to apply 1:38:55 to a ton of people. Narrow value that 1:38:58 applies to your target audience, but 1:38:59 also a big group of people. And then a 1:39:01 niche hook. So, I mean, a niche CTA, so 1:39:04 you're only getting your target audience 1:39:05 as leads. H 1:39:07 >> because that way you get high watch time 1:39:11 and if you like you niche it down, 1:39:13 you're going to have no watch time 1:39:14 because people are going to scroll. So 1:39:16 that's probably it. 1:39:18 >> That's good. Um if we had to make if we 1:39:21 had to craft like the perfect video 1:39:25 right now for a podcast like uh I think 1:39:28 it would be very helpful to the viewers 1:39:29 to like actionably see what you might 1:39:31 do. Uh so let's just take it about your 1:39:34 story. like what would be like the 1:39:35 perfect question to ask you that like 1:39:37 you think would be viral? 1:39:40 >> Probably something with a hook that was 1:39:42 results based which was like if you had 1:39:45 to go from zero to 500k in 6 months what 1:39:49 would you do in like 60 seconds and then 1:39:53 I would break it down like step one, 1:39:55 step two, step three, step four. Very 1:39:57 actionable, very tangible. And then that 1:40:00 would probably be it. just like a CTA to 1:40:02 follow or something. But 1:40:04 >> interesting. Let's try it for science 1:40:07 purposes. If you had to go from zero to 1:40:08 a million dollars a month, No, no, no. 1:40:10 It'd be if you had to go from if you had 1:40:13 to go from if you had to go from zero to 1:40:15 a million dollars in six months, how 1:40:17 would you do it? 1:40:19 >> Do you want me to answer? 1:40:20 >> Sure. 1:40:20 >> Okay. So, it's gonna be kind of repeat 1:40:22 from what we talked about, but I'll just 1:40:24 answer. 1:40:26 >> Step one, I would go to the Instagram 1:40:27 explore page. I would hit the search 1:40:29 bar. I would type in my niche and then I 1:40:31 would click the reals tab and I would 1:40:33 save like a hundred videos over a 1:40:36 million views. Then I would step two 1:40:39 take the hooks from those videos and the 1:40:42 value or the general topic of those 1:40:44 videos and I would write 30 scripts 1:40:47 basically with those viral hooks but my 1:40:49 own niche expertise as the value. I 1:40:52 would post those videos every single day 1:40:54 on one account and I would just repeat 1:40:57 that over and over again until I got my 1:40:58 first viral video and then I would step 1:41:01 three double down on that viral video, 1:41:04 the hook that was used, the topic that 1:41:06 was talked about. Um, and I would just 1:41:08 change the formats up and I would just 1:41:10 keep posting that and you will grow. 1:41:14 >> Okay. So, it's it you were talking about 1:41:16 followers. I was thinking you were 1:41:18 talking about was that about dollars or 1:41:19 >> No, it's followers. 1:41:20 >> Followers. Okay. That's what I would do 1:41:21 for followers. 1:41:22 >> For a million followers. Okay. Got it. 1:41:24 Okay. 1:41:25 >> I would add visuals to that. So like if 1:41:26 I'm explaining the research process, 1:41:29 like add a screen recording doing that. 1:41:31 >> H got it. Yeah, that was pretty good. 1:41:33 That was interesting watching you do it. 1:41:36 Uh because it was like 1:41:37 >> that's like my unscripted like I'm so 1:41:39 bad on scripted. I won't lie. 1:41:41 >> Same. Honestly. Um 1:41:42 >> but that was like my 7.9 million view 1:41:44 video. 1:41:44 >> Huh. 1:41:45 >> The hook was 1:41:47 what was it? Not to flex, but I'm pretty 1:41:49 I I don't know if I can swear on this. 1:41:51 >> No, no, you can. 1:41:52 >> Okay. It was not to flex, but I'm pretty 1:41:53 [ __ ] good at social media marketing. 1:41:55 And then the written hook was that what 1:41:58 what you just said, the hook for that. 1:42:00 And then the value of the video was a 1:42:02 step-by-step breakdown I just gave, but 1:42:04 a lot better 1:42:06 um because it was scripted. And then a 1:42:09 CTA. 1:42:09 >> So I might say, "How are you so [ __ ] 1:42:12 good at social media?" And that would be 1:42:14 like viral. What? The cursing thing is 1:42:17 really interesting. Um I've noticed like 1:42:19 a lot of your videos you curse in the 1:42:21 hooks. 1:42:21 >> Yeah, I I won't lie. I swear like a 1:42:23 sailor. 1:42:25 >> I've been trying to be really good here 1:42:27 cuz I didn't know and I want to be 1:42:28 >> You can cuss a lot. I I assumed you were 1:42:31 Christian so you did it or something. 1:42:32 >> But like that is my one thing I'm like 1:42:34 terrible at. 1:42:36 >> Yeah, cuz like I just was with a friend 1:42:37 group that started cursing when they 1:42:39 were 12. So I've just been doing it for 1:42:41 so long. But I'm trying to be better. 1:42:43 But 1:42:44 >> so to break down like what you just did 1:42:45 there, like it seemed like your tonality 1:42:48 and speeding like your the speed at 1:42:50 which you said the words change. Like do 1:42:52 you try to get in things quickly? 1:42:54 >> Yeah, with shorts you got to talk fast 1:42:56 and I always try like with my tone. I 1:42:59 call it like the know-it-all tone. 1:43:01 That's kind of what I go for in my 1:43:02 content and it works really well. But I 1:43:05 also need to talk fast especially when 1:43:07 you're giving a huge breakdown like that 1:43:08 to keep it under 60 seconds. 1:43:10 >> Yeah. It seems like there's a lot of 1:43:11 confidence like that you're the 1:43:12 authority. Is that something you like 1:43:14 worked on or is it just kind of what you 1:43:16 had naturally? 1:43:17 >> Uh yeah, it's definitely something I 1:43:19 worked on, but like not really 1:43:20 intentionally. When I first started 1:43:23 content, I literally screamed at the 1:43:24 camera like cuz that I was just like I 1:43:26 didn't have a mic so I was like talking 1:43:27 so loud and it's terrible to look back 1:43:29 at. But yeah, I think over time and just 1:43:34 like because of the results I've gotten, 1:43:36 I've just been a lot more confident and 1:43:38 I just know what I'm saying is what 1:43:40 works. 1:43:40 >> Maybe you won't be able to speak about 1:43:42 all these, but uh what are some 1:43:44 opportunities you've turned down on 1:43:46 social media? 1:43:48 >> Mhm. 1:43:50 Yeah. The only thing I've ever promoted 1:43:53 on social media was personal brand 1:43:55 launch. Like I don't do I get I mean you 1:43:58 probably are the same. I get so many 1:44:01 emails about 1:44:03 services like big brands of just like 1:44:07 ManyHat, Adobe, all like Whoop, the 1:44:10 newest one. I think 1:44:11 >> the Whoop bracelet or [ __ ] 1:44:13 >> Oh, [ __ ] That's what it is. 1:44:14 >> Yeah. Yeah. 1:44:15 >> Yeah. 1:44:16 >> Iman Godzy's thing. Yeah. Yeah. 1:44:19 >> Yeah. All those I just turn down just 1:44:23 cuz I know it will distract me. And I 1:44:26 hate being like under someone else's 1:44:28 control like having to do stuff for 1:44:30 other people that like the service 1:44:32 >> do that in the past. 1:44:34 >> No. 1:44:34 >> It's interesting that you know that 1:44:36 because it's something I haven't really 1:44:37 like but it's if you do do brand deals 1:44:40 you kind of subjugate yourself to oh now 1:44:42 I can't talk about these set of things 1:44:44 if I want these to continue. 1:44:45 Interesting. So it was never like your 1:44:47 dream to be like influencer girl with 1:44:49 all these sponsors. 1:44:50 >> No 1:44:51 >> no 1:44:51 >> I hate traveling. 1:44:53 You hate traveling? 1:44:55 >> Yeah. 1:44:55 >> Have you been like outside the US? 1:44:57 >> Yeah, I hate traveling. I'm such a 1:45:00 homebody. 1:45:01 >> Yeah. 1:45:03 >> Yeah. You have to travel a lot for 1:45:04 podcast. It's 1:45:05 >> Yeah, I can imagine 1:45:07 >> cuz you usually go to guest 1:45:10 cuz like I mean when you're talking to 1:45:12 people like Andrew or like all these 1:45:14 other people, 1:45:15 >> you probably have to travel a lot. 1:45:18 >> Yeah, this is a logistically tough 1:45:19 business. I think you would 1:45:21 >> I would hate it. hate this business 1:45:23 >> interviews like with Yeah. I don't 1:45:25 >> Yeah. It's like always trying to like 1:45:28 book a like she's like Jack, can we 1:45:29 please book the hotel like two days in 1:45:31 advance and the plane tickets at least 2 1:45:32 days in advance. I'm like no I can't get 1:45:34 it until this guest says it in this 1:45:37 wording that they're doing it. Like you 1:45:39 can't even prepare the research until 1:45:43 >> like I I I don't know until it's just a 1:45:46 very obvious message that states they're 1:45:48 going to do it and they have a time in 1:45:49 mind. you know, someone like you. I was 1:45:51 like, "Okay, this will be easy." Like, 1:45:53 she's going to be here on time. She'll 1:45:54 probably be here earlier. Like, 1:45:56 >> yeah, I was actually here like 30 1:45:58 minutes ago, but I just sat in the car. 1:46:00 >> Funny enough, the earliest um the person 1:46:02 who arrived earliest to the podcast ever 1:46:04 was Andrew Tate. 1:46:05 >> Really? 1:46:06 >> Yeah. He arrived like 30, 45 minutes 1:46:08 early before his team even got there. Um 1:46:10 and we're like, "Bro, what are you doing 1:46:12 here?" Like, it's so confusing. 1:46:13 >> That's impressive. 1:46:14 >> Um but yeah, like no, everyone else is 1:46:16 like so late. 1:46:17 >> Yeah. like difference between girls and 1:46:20 guys. 1:46:20 >> We haven't had an extreme amount of 1:46:22 girls. Like it's really just been 1:46:24 Candace Owens, Laya Hermoszi, and then 1:46:26 the top two girls from Beast Games. 1:46:29 Jenny Hoyos. You know, Jenny Hoyos, 1:46:31 she's like watch her episode with you. 1:46:33 And she Yeah, I've known her before the 1:46:35 episode that I watched, but yeah, she's 1:46:37 incredible. 1:46:38 >> Yeah, I think every girl has been pretty 1:46:40 on time. 1:46:42 Yeah, that that's never been an issue 1:46:43 actually. I've noticed just like with 1:46:46 this might be controversial, but I do 1:46:49 love working with girls and women 1:46:52 specifically just because they seem to 1:46:55 have a lot more attention to detail 1:46:59 and 1:47:01 they care more and they're more 1:47:02 personable and like when I've worked 1:47:05 with men in the past, they just end up 1:47:07 getting let go because they don't care 1:47:09 as much and like the client 1:47:12 doesn't like that and I've just I've had 1:47:15 like girl and guy account managers and 1:47:17 I'm not opposed to hiring a guy account 1:47:19 manager. 1:47:19 >> I would only hire girl account managers 1:47:21 who had your business. 1:47:22 >> Every single guy I've ever had as an 1:47:24 account manager has gotten let go. 1:47:26 >> Interesting. Are there any roles in the 1:47:28 company that are like guy specific? 1:47:29 Usually probably the editors 1:47:30 >> sales 1:47:32 >> and editors. There are quite a few 1:47:34 editors that are male. Yeah, for sure. I 1:47:35 would say primarily male editors, but 1:47:37 sales, I mean, we've had girls in the 1:47:40 past, but um we only had actually one, 1:47:45 but she like lasted maybe a week and a 1:47:48 half. Um 1:47:51 but the guys like they just crush. I 1:47:53 feel like they're so hungry 1:47:55 >> and since the commissions are in their 1:47:57 control, like they control how much 1:47:58 commissions they get, like how many 1:48:00 people they close, so they're just so 1:48:02 much more motivated and I think they're 1:48:04 really good at sales. 1:48:05 >> Yeah. The sales rep I spoke with from 1:48:07 your company was really good. He like 1:48:08 recognized immediately that I wasn't 1:48:10 going to buy and like 1:48:12 >> just 1:48:12 >> It might have been Joe or Charles or was 1:48:15 it like an older man like maybe not 1:48:17 older man but like 40s? 1:48:19 >> I can't remember. or I feel like it was 1:48:20 on Zoom without his face or maybe it was 1:48:23 just on a phone call. Um, but he just 1:48:25 identified quickly that I wasn't buying 1:48:27 and then stopped giving like the 1:48:29 information about the program or 1:48:30 something and I was like, 1:48:31 >> you're smart. Um, but 1:48:34 >> that's interesting. Have you was it hard 1:48:36 for you to hire sales people for the 1:48:37 company or did you just have a lot of 1:48:39 experience with uh like doing over the 1:48:42 phone sales for the real estate? 1:48:44 Honestly, I feel like sales is just one 1:48:46 of the ones where 1:48:49 you hire people who aren't super set in 1:48:52 their ways. They're a little more like 1:48:53 you usually hire people who are more 1:48:55 experienced at their skill set. But with 1:48:57 sales, what's great about it is you can 1:48:58 hire someone who hasn't really done it 1:49:01 too much before, but they're hungry and 1:49:03 they don't have all the bad habits that 1:49:06 most sales reps have because they aren't 1:49:07 trained, right? 1:49:08 >> Do you guys have a fairly high close 1:49:10 rate? Yeah. I mean, I would say it's 1:49:12 average, like 40%. 1:49:15 >> I don't know if that's average. Is that 1:49:17 average? I feel like that's particularly 1:49:19 high. 1:49:20 >> Oh, I don't know. I mean, when I go to 1:49:22 the workshops at Hermosi, like that's 1:49:24 what they say. Like they Well, from what 1:49:27 whenever I tell them mine or cuz like 1:49:29 sometimes we'll talk more about sales, 1:49:31 sometimes we'll talk more about 1:49:32 marketing, but usually when we talk 1:49:33 about sales, they say what I have is 1:49:35 like pretty standard. H. And that's like 1:49:38 a warm lead or a cold lead or 1:49:40 >> warm. Warm. All of my leads are like 1:49:43 very warm. People who've been watching 1:49:44 my social media for probably months at 1:49:46 least. 1:49:47 >> And how do you filter that out? 1:49:49 >> What do you mean? 1:49:49 >> Like uh they go to VSSL and do they get 1:49:52 on the call immediately or how does it 1:49:53 work? 1:49:54 >> So my funnel is the many chat comment. 1:49:57 They get DM'd the landing page and then 1:50:00 there is like so much like a social 1:50:03 proof on the landing page, kind of a 1:50:05 process breakdown, benefits, results, 1:50:07 all that stuff. And then they can book a 1:50:09 call and then after they book, there's a 1:50:12 VSSL before the call. 1:50:13 >> What are like some things you definitely 1:50:15 should not do on Instagram that people 1:50:17 do to try and grow? Like buying 1:50:20 followers, buying 1:50:21 >> Oh my god, that will destroy your 1:50:23 account. M 1:50:24 >> we have so many people who like not so 1:50:26 many people but we've had a few that 1:50:28 have bought followers and like it just 1:50:30 destroys your account. Like if you buy 1:50:32 it just make a new account. Give up on 1:50:34 the account because it will destroy your 1:50:36 account. 1:50:37 >> H what are some other things that will 1:50:39 hurt the account? We talked about 1:50:40 posting outside of the US. 1:50:42 >> Yeah. So like posting on a third party 1:50:44 platform 1:50:46 um just to Instagram specifically. it 1:50:49 just won't do well even if it's a great 1:50:51 post. Or I would say never fall for like 1:50:55 the engagement hacks that you have to do 1:50:58 like oh you have to engage 15 minutes a 1:51:00 day or you have to do XYZ comments after 1:51:04 you post a video or you have to post at 1:51:06 XYZ time. All that's BS. Don't even 1:51:09 listen. Um let's see what else. I guess 1:51:14 like just when you kind of like we 1:51:16 talked about earlier, if you're in the 1:51:18 fitness niche and you post a video about 1:51:21 I don't know like your cat, it won't do 1:51:24 well if your audience like if you built 1:51:26 up an audience for people who follow you 1:51:28 for fitness. 1:51:29 >> Does that matter on Instagram anymore 1:51:31 though? 1:51:32 >> Um I would say still yes cuz like when I 1:51:34 try if I ever try posting social media 1:51:37 stuff on my personal page it just won't 1:51:39 do well. 1:51:40 >> H interesting. 1:51:42 >> Yeah. What's one question you wish 1:51:44 people would ask you about social media, 1:51:46 but they don't? 1:51:49 >> Probably what do I not need to do? 1:51:52 Because I think on social media, 1:51:55 unfortunately, especially in my niche, 1:51:58 like there's so many things that are 1:51:59 promoted that you should do. Like so 1:52:02 many things that people think they have 1:52:03 to do to grow an account. Like I was 1:52:05 talking about earlier, like engaging on 1:52:07 social media and stuff like that. I 1:52:10 think people should ask more about like 1:52:12 what they can eliminate. 1:52:15 Um I think because with our even like 1:52:18 with our company processes, we always 1:52:21 are trying to figure out like what we 1:52:22 can subtract or automate to make our 1:52:24 lives easier because there's so much 1:52:27 noise and so many fake things that you 1:52:29 don't even need to do. And like there 1:52:31 was like during my huge growth phase, I 1:52:33 didn't even have time to go on Instagram 1:52:35 at all. Like I wouldn't even engage on 1:52:37 the platform. my assistant posted for 1:52:39 me, so I wouldn't even be on it and I 1:52:41 still grew. So, there's just probably 1:52:45 What do I not need to do? 1:52:47 >> It's a really good answer. Uh, do you 1:52:50 scroll on uh Instagram consistently to 1:52:53 like always try to stay in the know of 1:52:56 what's going on or do you not find that 1:52:58 important? 1:52:59 >> I used to not as much, but now lately I 1:53:01 have been. 1:53:03 Um, especially like making that a 1:53:06 thousand hooks lead magnet. I guess that 1:53:10 just changed everything. So now I kind 1:53:13 of make it I have on my literal like 1:53:15 to-do list every single day 20 minutes 1:53:17 of intentional scrolling and that's I 1:53:20 will for like 20 minutes a day, but 1:53:21 strictly for either to learn stuff and 1:53:25 post stuff about content if I'm seeing 1:53:26 like a trend or something that's working 1:53:28 for business owners or stuff that we can 1:53:30 do for clients. Like do you ever try to 1:53:32 invent anything like new ideas like 1:53:36 nothing that's like technical 1:53:37 statistically proven to be an outlier? 1:53:40 >> Yes. And sometimes it works I would say 1:53:44 cuz like on my personal page I got 1:53:47 engaged at 16 wasn't something I studied 1:53:49 >> or that 50 million view video that 1:53:52 wasn't something that I studied. It was 1:53:55 just something I had a really good 1:53:56 feeling would do well because it's so 1:53:58 controversial. 1:53:59 >> Yeah. I have noticed a lot of my really 1:54:01 big ones have been out of the box that I 1:54:03 haven't seen anywhere, but it's usually 1:54:07 taken from somewhere, you know, like you 1:54:09 can usually tie back and be like, "Oh, I 1:54:10 took it from this person." Like you 1:54:11 probably saw this video. I had like a 1:54:13 compilation of guests saying, "Good 1:54:15 question. That's a good question." 1:54:16 >> I did see that video. 1:54:18 >> Yeah. 1:54:18 >> I think that's when I So, like I 1:54:21 obviously knew about you, but I saw that 1:54:24 video specifically and that's why I 1:54:26 followed your like original Jack 1:54:28 account. like the just the Jack one. 1:54:30 >> What made you follow it just 1:54:31 >> that video? 1:54:32 >> Just because like you're like, "Oh, 1:54:34 that's good marketing." Or like you're 1:54:35 like, "Oh, he's had all these guests." 1:54:36 Like what made you 1:54:37 >> Well, I've seen your face like a million 1:54:39 times and then I saw this really good 1:54:41 piece of short form content and whenever 1:54:43 I see, you know, like people with good 1:54:45 content that I can also like use for 1:54:47 myself as inspiration or for clients as 1:54:48 inspiration, I'll always follow. 1:54:50 >> Interesting. 1:54:51 >> Yeah. Cuz I asked, it's so funny. Um I 1:54:54 talked about this. It's a really meta 1:54:55 concept that that after that video came 1:54:58 out, all the guests started saying good 1:55:00 question on the podcast. Um like 1:55:03 >> I think I've already said it. 1:55:04 >> Yes. Like at a really high rate and then 1:55:07 every single comment on my videos were 1:55:09 like dang this guy asked good questions. 1:55:11 Like um people would say to me in person 1:55:13 like, "Bro, your podcast is great. Like 1:55:14 you ask such good questions." I'm like 1:55:16 >> like you this didn't used to happen. 1:55:18 It's like you're implanting you're 1:55:20 literally influencing people's um 1:55:22 opinions. You know what I've noticed 1:55:24 about you is like you're very neutral on 1:55:26 podcast. Like I feel like you're very 1:55:28 calm and like you don't 1:55:32 force your opinions on people or you 1:55:34 don't judge people for what they say or 1:55:36 anything which I feel like is rare cuz 1:55:39 people always want to talk and always 1:55:41 want to like 1:55:43 influence I guess their opinion on 1:55:44 people's answers. But I really like you 1:55:46 as a host for that reason. 1:55:49 >> I appreciate that. Yeah, that's been a 1:55:51 really intentional decision. Um, 1:55:54 >> like we haven't uh hosted some of our 1:55:57 past controversial guests a second time 1:56:00 because we didn't want to fall too much 1:56:02 into a niche. But 1:56:04 >> yeah, I think there's a lot of power in 1:56:07 being neutral. Um, I think it creates 1:56:10 better content if people feel 1:56:12 comfortable that this person 1:56:14 >> like you don't know if I'm like have 1:56:17 certain political beliefs, but you know 1:56:19 that I talk to a lot of people with a 1:56:21 different with a lot of different types 1:56:23 of ones. Um, 1:56:24 >> yeah. Actually, I have a question about 1:56:25 one of your guests. You don't have to 1:56:27 add this in, but you did 1:56:30 the one I forget his name. He's like the 1:56:32 very religious one. 1:56:34 >> Cliff and Stewart Connectley. 1:56:35 >> Yeah, I listened to that. I really 1:56:37 enjoyed that. That was like one of my 1:56:39 favorites. 1:56:40 >> Yeah, they're really great. Um that was 1:56:42 a 1:56:42 >> they're so like I just love how they 1:56:44 always reference like the Bible and 1:56:46 stories and yeah, 1:56:49 >> that was a tough one. It's so funny with 1:56:51 podcast that like the amount of 1:56:52 preparation you do for each one is so 1:56:55 vastly different. uh like something like 1:56:57 this since you didn't have many 1:56:58 interviews and I already already 1:57:00 understand social media a bit like it's 1:57:02 less prep required than Cliff and 1:57:04 Stewart which is study the entire 1:57:06 history of the Bible and Judaism and 1:57:08 Islam and like cross-co compare 1:57:11 everything and then come at them with 1:57:13 questions you know or like 1:57:15 >> I don't know Robert Green we're having 1:57:17 on next week like 48 laws of power and 1:57:19 it's like read all of his books ever you 1:57:22 know and then like study all the 1:57:24 historical figures who've used it. It's 1:57:25 It's a really funny one. Um 1:57:27 >> Yeah. Yeah. Especially like people like 1:57:29 Hermoszi cuz like if you don't consume 1:57:31 his content or his books like there's so 1:57:33 much out there that you'd have to 1:57:35 >> That was tough too. Him and Tate like I 1:57:38 watched every podcast they've been on to 1:57:40 make sure there was there was stuff they 1:57:41 hadn't heard. 1:57:42 >> Horosi is the hardest person to 1:57:44 interview ever by the way 1:57:45 >> cuz the way he thinks it's like 1:57:48 >> I'm like would this I'm like would your 1:57:50 businesses have been more successful if 1:57:52 you prioritized your relationship 1:57:53 sooner? He's like, "I don't know." 1:57:56 >> Yeah. 1:57:56 >> I don't I don't really think about it. 1:57:58 Like he won't think about anything in 1:57:59 the past, you know? Um 1:58:02 >> and then he's like, "That word doesn't 1:58:03 make sense to me." Um 1:58:05 >> yeah, I listened to that episode. That 1:58:06 was funny. There was just like some of 1:58:08 those like very short answers and you're 1:58:10 like, "Okay, next question." 1:58:11 >> Yeah. Um 1:58:13 >> Mhm. I did like how you like switched up 1:58:15 the last question and I'm pretty sure 1:58:16 that's a real that did well for you. 1:58:19 >> Yeah, that was the one they collab 1:58:20 posted that was doing pretty well. Um, 1:58:23 >> cuz even before this, I like made it a 1:58:26 daily habit to listen to your podcast at 1:58:28 the gym. So, I like have my notes up and 1:58:30 I just have random facts about you. I I 1:58:32 studied you before I came here, too. 1:58:35 >> I've never had anyone do that. Yeah. I 1:58:36 think one other person who was CIA said 1:58:39 they watched the podcast. Uh, that's 1:58:41 pretty rare, actually, that people are 1:58:42 like, "Oh, yeah. I've been watching it." 1:58:43 Um, 1:58:45 >> why shouldn't you copy big creators? 1:58:48 >> Because people will know. Like you see 1:58:52 copycats of like huge people in every 1:58:55 single niche and think about how 1:58:57 embarrassing it is for people to see 1:59:01 that video that you've created and been 1:59:03 like, "Oh, this is just a copy of XYZ." 1:59:05 Like, copy the hooks cuz those work and 1:59:09 they probably copied hooks, too. But 1:59:12 make sure your value is different 1:59:13 because if you are just copying other 1:59:15 people, then you don't really know 1:59:18 anything 1:59:20 or you don't look like an authority. And 1:59:22 if you if one person sees you copy a 1:59:25 video, you are like ruined. Your 1:59:27 reputation is ruined in their mind 1:59:29 forever. They won't trust anything you 1:59:31 say because they'll just think it's 1:59:32 copied from another person. 1:59:34 >> How many people should you copy for one 1:59:36 video? Should it be like five different 1:59:39 things from five different people? How 1:59:40 do you think about that? 1:59:42 >> Um, I always recommend like if you're 1:59:45 posting as a business owner, some of 1:59:47 that value and education should just be 1:59:49 from your own personal experience and 1:59:50 the results you've gotten. But 1:59:53 obviously, if you're like an educator on 1:59:56 like a like a crime, for example, like 1:59:58 what you kind of used to do, you don't 2:00:00 make that up. That's just like based off 2:00:02 of resources. So, I would just say 2:00:07 multiple at least 2:00:10 three if you're making like a short 2:00:12 about it, but also just because if 2:00:14 you're doing like something like crime, 2:00:16 there's going to be so much different 2:00:17 information everywhere, so you kind of 2:00:18 need to cross check things anyway. 2:00:20 >> What inspired you to do um your niche? 2:00:24 >> Um, 2:00:25 >> was there anyone in particular doing it 2:00:26 at the time at a high level? Oh, I yeah, 2:00:29 I would say there's people like who like 2:00:31 specialized in Instagram growth, but it 2:00:33 wasn't necessarily like short form 2:00:35 content based, but I just I love it. 2:00:38 It's so interesting to me and I love 2:00:40 marketing in general. Like I love people 2:00:42 like Russell Brunson, a huge fan of him 2:00:44 and anyone who just talks about funnels 2:00:46 and how that works. So, I think it was 2:00:48 just an appeal to the niche. But yeah, 2:00:52 it kind of just all started from just 2:00:54 posting shorts as well. Did you go to 2:00:56 his events back in the day? 2:00:58 >> No, I was too young. 2:00:59 >> Yeah. 2:01:00 >> And now like does he do events anymore? 2:01:03 >> Probably funnel hacker, but like I don't 2:01:06 use clickfunnels so or anything but I 2:01:08 used to 2:01:09 >> use go high level. 2:01:10 >> Yeah, I use go high level now. 2:01:11 >> Who's that made by? 2:01:12 >> I have no idea. But it's really good for 2:01:14 like agencies. 2:01:15 >> What's one part of your childhood that 2:01:18 you feel is really important to 2:01:20 understand you and who you are today? 2:01:23 >> Yeah. So, we talked a little bit about 2:01:25 loyalty so far. And I think growing up, 2:01:30 I grew up surrounded by men who lied, 2:01:33 cheated on their partner, watched porn, 2:01:36 and had wandering eyes. And I grew up 2:01:38 surrounded by women who accepted it and 2:01:42 said, "Ava, that is just what men do. 2:01:45 Ava, that's just a guy thing." And I 2:01:48 refuse to believe that [ __ ] like men 2:01:50 are resp like men are in control of what 2:01:53 they do. Um, and I think growing up 2:01:56 surrounded by people like that, it just 2:01:58 made me really really know that I could 2:02:01 never be with a partner who does those 2:02:04 sort of things. And there's this verse 2:02:06 in the Bible. It's like, but if he looks 2:02:09 at another woman less flee, he's already 2:02:10 committed adultery in his heart. If your 2:02:13 right eye causes you to stumble, gouge 2:02:15 it out and throw it away. For it is 2:02:16 better for you to lose one part of your 2:02:17 body than have your entire body thrown 2:02:19 into hell. If your right hand causes you 2:02:21 to stumble, cut it off and throw it 2:02:23 away. For it is better for you to lose 2:02:24 one part of your body than have your 2:02:26 entire body thrown into hell. And it's 2:02:28 basically saying that 2:02:31 mentally lusting after someone and 2:02:33 physically being with after like with 2:02:34 someone and kind of doing those acts 2:02:37 while you still have a partner, that's 2:02:39 they're all cheating. There's not like 2:02:41 certain levels. One's not worse than the 2:02:43 other. It's all cheating. And I think we 2:02:45 live in a society today where there's 2:02:47 just so much access. 2:02:49 So you're really able to see it's like a 2:02:52 blessing and a curse because you're 2:02:53 really able to see with all that access 2:02:56 like who is truly 2:02:58 loyal and like 2:03:01 >> And where do your morals come from? Like 2:03:04 have you always been religious from a 2:03:06 young age? 2:03:07 >> Um yeah. So my parents my parents are 2:03:11 amazing by the way. like 2:03:14 they 2:03:16 raised me to be I had older parents. 2:03:18 They had me in their 40s, so they're 2:03:20 older and I think them just being wiser 2:03:23 when they raised me. 2:03:26 Definitely 2:03:28 helped with who I am now. But they were 2:03:31 always very consistent with things like 2:03:32 church. Um obviously had like a 2:03:35 rebellious phase when I was like 13, 14, 2:03:38 but I like didn't want to go to church. 2:03:40 My church was boring, but now I'm like 2:03:43 very dedicated. Every Sunday I'm there. 2:03:45 >> Christian, Catholic, or 2:03:46 >> Lutheran. 2:03:47 >> Lutheran. 2:03:47 >> But I'm not like I could be any, but I 2:03:50 just go to a Lutheran church. 2:03:52 >> That makes sense. 2:03:53 >> Mhm. 2:03:53 >> And then you grew up with sisters, 2:03:56 brothers, or 2:03:56 >> Yeah, I have an older sister. 2:03:58 >> Got it. Is she like on a similar 2:04:00 entrepreneurial path or is that 2:04:02 >> She's like We're kind of like equal 2:04:05 opposites. She She's redhead. We look 2:04:08 nothing alike, but she is very 2:04:10 dedicated. But when it comes to school, 2:04:14 like 4.0, straight A's, graduated with 2:04:18 honor. She just graduated college this 2:04:20 past um in May. So, but she's like going 2:04:25 to be the best employee. Like, she is 2:04:28 just I want her, but I know she'll never 2:04:30 work for me. 2:04:32 >> Very similar situation with my sister. 2:04:33 Yeah. She's like she's about to graduate 2:04:36 college. She's like an becoming like a 2:04:39 doctor of neuroscience. But like 2:04:41 >> wow. 2:04:41 >> She I wanted her to work for me when I 2:04:43 was like 18 19 like to be a writer for 2:04:46 the crime channel cuz she's the only 2:04:47 person that can write like me. I think 2:04:50 like genetically speaking like it makes 2:04:51 sense that she can kind of like think 2:04:53 like me. Um but she's just we just clash 2:04:57 super hard. Um 2:04:59 >> but what's your take on college as a 2:05:02 20-year-old that makes $700,000 a month? 2:05:06 I mean personally I hire based on 2:05:09 experience not a degree. If you have 2:05:11 results that is all I care about and the 2:05:15 best companies actually I would say 2:05:16 bigger companies care about college like 2:05:18 Google, Amazon but 2:05:22 I would say a majority of businesses 2:05:25 don't care about that. They care about 2:05:26 results that you've generated. And then 2:05:29 personally, I think if you're 2:05:32 not getting a degree, like if you want a 2:05:34 job that doesn't need a degree, then 2:05:36 don't go to college. But if you want to 2:05:38 be a dentist or a vet, go to college. 2:05:41 But anything else, just start right when 2:05:43 you graduate. So then you can fail and 2:05:45 live with your parents until you 2:05:48 succeed. And you'll have all those four 2:05:49 years just to fail, fail, fail, and 2:05:51 you'll you'll eventually succeed. Um, 2:05:54 but I think college is a waste of time 2:05:56 and money if you're not using the degree 2:05:58 you get. 2:05:59 >> Finding success at a young age. I spoke 2:06:01 to Aman Godsy about this and he said 2:06:05 that the one regret he had was 2:06:07 >> Oh, I know where you're going with this. 2:06:09 >> Just kind of like 2:06:10 >> never got to experience uh going to 2:06:12 parties and like having friends and that 2:06:14 kind of thing. Has that never really 2:06:15 been a concern for you? And just if you 2:06:18 knew that you were guaranteed success at 2:06:19 an older age, do you think you would 2:06:21 have lived differently when you were 2:06:22 younger? 2:06:23 >> I before I met or before I got together 2:06:26 with Ben, 2:06:28 I kind of had that phase 2:06:32 of I just I I wouldn't say to the extent 2:06:36 you would have in college because I was 2:06:38 still pretty young, but just not doing 2:06:40 the best stuff um 2:06:43 or just being too young to do certain 2:06:45 things. 2:06:47 But I kind of had that like party phase 2:06:51 and I just looking back am I wouldn't 2:06:55 say ashamed but I'm just not proud of 2:06:57 her 2:06:59 >> and I wouldn't really want to 2:07:04 be her. So, it just depends like if you 2:07:08 know drinking and doing that stuff is 2:07:11 like what you think you'll look back on 2:07:13 and that will be the good old days for 2:07:15 you, then yes, go to college, do your 2:07:17 thing. But I don't know. I I personally 2:07:21 think I'm probably have such a niche 2:07:23 opinion on it. So, I most people 2:07:26 probably wouldn't agree, but I just I 2:07:29 don't want 2:07:32 my life to be 2:07:34 I don't want to ever be like that again. 2:07:36 >> What's like the part of your life that 2:07:39 you're like most look forward to every 2:07:42 day like in your routine? Um, is there 2:07:45 like anything that's super exciting for 2:07:46 you or is there anything like upcoming 2:07:48 that you and Ben are doing that you're 2:07:50 really excited for? 2:07:51 >> Yeah, I would say I have two parts of my 2:07:53 day that I love. I love working in the 2:07:56 morning. Um, drinking my coffee, being 2:07:59 alone, and just like getting to do what 2:08:01 I love. I think that's my favorite part 2:08:02 of the day. And then I love after work 2:08:06 just hanging out with Ben. And whether 2:08:09 like we're hanging out or I love to 2:08:11 read. That's like my one like guilty 2:08:12 pleasure. I will read all the time. Not 2:08:15 like business books, like just like 2:08:17 regular books. And I just love reading. 2:08:20 Um, and there's this thing it's called 2:08:22 book or like book talk or book Instagram 2:08:25 where people just talk about books. I 2:08:27 love that. Um, yeah, that's my thing. 2:08:30 But anything with Ben. Um, and I would 2:08:34 say like this might sound depressing, 2:08:36 but like I just have like very few 2:08:38 friends. Just have a couple like may I 2:08:40 would even like there's friends from 2:08:41 high school that now go to college that 2:08:43 like we'll hang out maybe three times a 2:08:46 year. Those are like my friends, but 2:08:48 like my true one friend is just Ben. 2:08:50 >> But I love Ben and I only need Ben. So, 2:08:53 >> do you give a lot of merit to IQ and 2:08:56 success level um when it comes to social 2:08:59 media or business? Like have you done IQ 2:09:02 test? 2:09:03 >> Honestly, no 2:09:04 >> really. Like Alex and Ila would say they 2:09:06 don't consider IQ that important, but um 2:09:09 I'm curious if you like think about it 2:09:10 with your relationships if it's 2:09:12 important for you to be a successful 2:09:13 entrepreneur. 2:09:16 Um, I would say it's more just about 2:09:18 like the person, their morals, and 2:09:22 just basically when you look at someone, 2:09:25 never believe what they say. Just 2:09:27 believe their actions 2:09:29 and the results they've gotten people 2:09:31 and what they do daily. And that's what 2:09:33 I judge people by. And that's how I also 2:09:35 hire people. So like, you're not allowed 2:09:37 to ask in interviews, do you go to the 2:09:39 gym? But that's illegal. But you can ask 2:09:43 them like, "Oh, what are your hobbies? 2:09:45 Like, what do you do dayto-day?" Stuff 2:09:46 like that. And you can just see based 2:09:48 off of that. Like what kind of person 2:09:50 they are. 2:09:51 >> That's a really good piece of advice. 2:09:53 Yeah. For interviews, what other things 2:09:56 do you ask that have been like golden 2:09:57 questions? 2:09:58 >> Yeah. So, something I have done for a 2:10:01 very long time, which I love, it's not 2:10:03 necessarily a question, but I do tests. 2:10:07 So, for like copywriting positions or 2:10:10 editor positions, we'll just do paid 2:10:12 tests. Um, after we we'll do like the 2:10:15 application, we'll do a paid test and 2:10:18 then if they pass that, we'll do culture 2:10:19 fit interview. 2:10:20 >> What kind of test? 2:10:21 >> Just like if it's an editor position, 2:10:23 we'll have them edit a short for the 2:10:25 test. 2:10:26 >> Okay. Okay. You mean Yeah. Gotcha. I 2:10:27 thought you meant like personality test, 2:10:29 but you mean like kind of like a trial 2:10:31 literal test. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, and 2:10:34 those work super well just to weed 2:10:36 people out because some people I mean 2:10:38 I'm I can easily spot it now, but 2:10:40 they'll just use Chad GBT on their 2:10:42 application. So then they don't actually 2:10:44 know anything. Um, so you can see with 2:10:46 test and weed people out really well. 2:10:48 Um, so that is my best my best hack. 2:10:51 >> How do you know if someone is using chat 2:10:53 GBT when messaging you something? 2:10:56 >> Here are the phrases. 2:10:58 Here's the truth. Um, skyrocket. 2:11:02 I'm sorry. I'm trying to think of all 2:11:04 like the terms you hear when Chachi 2:11:05 writes something. Um, but here's the 2:11:08 secret. It just says like you can I can 2:11:11 now recognize like how it talks and like 2:11:14 how it word stuff or like things like 2:11:16 the double dash. 2:11:18 >> Double dash is 2:11:18 >> clos like I see that in applications all 2:11:21 the time. Immediately skip. 2:11:22 >> It's unfortunate because I use the 2:11:23 double dash in my writing and now I'm 2:11:25 like damn it people think I'm using 2:11:26 Chachi BT. But 2:11:28 >> yeah, we had an issue with that. Um, 2:11:30 clients were thinking that and we were 2:11:31 like oh my god shoot. So we in our SOP 2:11:33 it says no double dashes. 2:11:35 >> H interesting. 2:11:36 >> Mhm. 2:11:38 >> That was something I was going to ask 2:11:38 you about, but I didn't want to make you 2:11:40 look bad. Is like it like can this all 2:11:42 just be automated with chatbt or is it 2:11:44 like actual grunt work? 2:11:45 >> I mean it's all grunt right now. If one 2:11:47 day it would be as effective, yes, 2:11:50 that'd be great. But right now it's just 2:11:53 not. 2:11:54 >> I've never been able to successfully 2:11:56 train Chap Chad GBT to write how I 2:11:58 write. 2:11:58 >> Yeah, me neither. I was able to at first 2:12:00 when it came out like fairly well and 2:12:03 then it just got worse over time. Like I 2:12:05 noticed chat like I don't know. It was 2:12:07 like it had too much. 2:12:10 >> I don't know. I think they dumb down the 2:12:11 model honestly um to make them more 2:12:13 money. Probably makes sense. 2:12:15 >> But 2:12:16 >> who's the most impressive person you've 2:12:18 ever met? 2:12:24 >> Probably Alex 2:12:26 Heroszi in person. 2:12:29 H. 2:12:30 >> And you've never observed anyone aside 2:12:32 from Alex perhaps that actually 2:12:36 >> No one I've met. If we're talking about 2:12:37 like the question was, have you ever 2:12:39 met, you know, someone 2:12:41 >> or seen someone like that? No, I 2:12:43 haven't. Besides Alex. I I haven't 2:12:46 personally talked to Leela, but I bet 2:12:47 she's the same way. 2:12:50 >> She definitely was. Yeah. Um 2:12:53 >> Yeah, 2:12:53 >> it it was interesting meeting those two 2:12:55 for sure. 2:12:57 They're very different, but 2:12:59 >> they work well together. 2:13:00 >> Yeah. I think a lot of people assume 2:13:02 they have different beliefs for some 2:13:03 reason, but it's all pretty much the 2:13:05 exact same stuff. 2:13:06 >> Yeah. I think they have the same beliefs 2:13:07 and then her their skill sets obviously 2:13:11 you're if you listen to both of their 2:13:12 episodes with you, they're both about 2:13:15 very different kind of parts. Like he's 2:13:17 obviously the visionary and then you 2:13:18 know she kind of implements but like 2:13:20 they would just obviously that works 2:13:22 perfectly together. And then I guess 2:13:24 last question here. Uh, what's the best 2:13:26 piece of advice you've ever received? 2:13:31 >> Treat everybody like they're an 2:13:33 undercover Jesus. 2:13:35 You'll notice how much better and kinder 2:13:38 you are to people. 2:13:41 >> Treat everyone like they're an 2:13:42 undercover Jesus. Where did you hear 2:13:44 that? 2:13:45 >> Some religious person online. I I don't 2:13:49 remember who exactly, but all I know is 2:13:52 little advice sticks, but that really 2:13:54 has 2:13:57 cuz I used to just be the type of person 2:13:59 who would like never compliment people, 2:14:01 like strangers, never compliment 2:14:03 strangers. I would just put my head down 2:14:04 if I was walking past someone so I 2:14:06 didn't have to smile. But it's 2:14:07 definitely changed the way I even handle 2:14:10 like little interactions dayto-day. 2:14:12 >> How else have you found it useful? Yeah. 2:14:15 Um, 2:14:17 I would never say like I was ever a mean 2:14:18 person. Like I'm always kind of a people 2:14:20 pleaser, but I find now that I'll go a 2:14:25 lot more out of my way to make people on 2:14:27 my team or Ben or just anyone I interact 2:14:30 with like just treat them better and 2:14:34 leave a the best impression I can. I 2:14:37 can't explain it. Just treat everyone 2:14:39 like they're an undercover Jesus. It'll 2:14:40 change your life. Well, everyone, uh, 2:14:43 this has been your guest, Ava Jurgens. 2:14:45 Uh, where can people find you really 2:14:47 quick? 2:14:48 >> Personal brand Launch on Instagram or A 2:14:50 Jurgens on Instagram and pretty much all 2:14:52 other platforms. 2:14:53 >> This is the Jagil podcast. Appreciate 2:14:55 you coming on. 2:14:55 >> Yeah.