0:00 This, by the way, it's my second. It's the start of my second today. I got You know why? We're straight jug. Those glasses. I saw those glasses though. Did tent me a little bit. I'm not even going to lie. What you got? What did you bring? What did you bring? We strict stroke budget. I don't remember what it was. It's upstairs. If you want it, we can bring it. Tell him to bring him down. Let's take a look at him. I'll take a look at him just in case. Have a little I might have a little sip. Or even just had a glass here. It looks It looks aesthetically it looks great on camera. You want to keep it keep it, you know, glassy. Elevated. Yeah. Keep it elevated. Yeah, [Music] exactly. Welcome back to another episode of Mind the Game. In this episode, I got to nerd out a little bit. You know, maybe it's a episode that means more to me than most people out there, but I think it's really fascinating for fans 1:00 and even fans who played in the league to understand what it takes to survive, to find consistency, to be prepared to play, to avoid injury, to be able to go out there every night and do your job. And so in this episode, I really dug in on LeBron's preparation, how he takes care of his body, the sports science behind it, what his recovery is like, his diet, uh many different things that allow him to find that level night after night, but also year after year. This is year 22 for LeBron James. That's an outrageous accomplishment to play and to be able to play at this level. Still dunking on younger players, still running the floor, still able to play an extremely high level and efficient level. And much of that is due to the way he handles his preparation and recovery. Uh this guy is uh very diligent and religious about the way he takes care of his body and his mind. And I think you'll be fascinated as I was to get a little deeper and understand the methodology and the routines and the habits that he's built over these 22 years. [Music] 2:02 You know, one thing that I got to ask and it leads into, you know, longer conversation that fascinates me is like, how do you feel? Like, like really, how do you feel? Like, do you feel great? Do you feel like I feel great for my age? Do you feel I feel great for this stage of my career? You just like I feel great. Um, I have my moments. Um, but for So, it's good. You're healing. Yeah. I I have my moments, but for I I would say for where I am in my career, the years I've played, the miles I've played, the minutes I've played, the games I've played, um I I I feel great. I feel great. And um obviously you have months where some months are better than others depending on the schedule. Um after games um depending on the work course of the game, you know, you like, "Oh shit." But it's usually the morning after the game. It's that first step out of bed will let you know how old your ass is. And those are the moments I'll be like, 3:04 "Brian, what the hell?" And it's usually on the road, too. It's usually on the road, you know? You're like, "What the hell are you still doing out here? What the [ __ ] are you doing? Why are you out here still?" Yeah. And where do you feel it? Like, is it like a a slight like inflammation, tired legs, back? Yeah. back, ankles. Yeah. Yeah. You know, no one wants to hear this, but I played soccer a little bit. I played the other night a bunch of guys that are like 25 to 30, you know, 30s. Like I wake up the next day, I feel like I was in a car crash. That's the only way I can explain it. Like I don't know how you are still dunking on cats, like running out ahead of everybody. I don't I don't know either, you know. I don't know. Do you have nights like this happened to me a lot and you have to learn to deal with it and and and get it done anyways where you just feel like dead heavy legs like? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Absolutely. Or or you know, you wake up and you're headed to the arena and you're like, "Yeah, I don't know. It's not going to be tonight." Yeah. I don't know if I can do it tonight. You know, we we just um I had that 4:04 feeling right after the break. We [ __ ] the bed vers Charlotte right after the break. Back to back in Portland, you know. Um we didn't get to our hotel until 3:00 in the morning and we had a backtoback verse Portland. They have won uh nine of their last uh 11 and I think the two games they lost to was vers Denver. Uh I think they was 11 and 11 and two over their last 13. So they had been playing good ball. Chanty had them playing great ball. Great ball. And um you know I I I woke up to get to get treatment at like 11:00. You know I didn't go to sleep till 4 5:00 in the morning. So I set my alarm for 10:30. I was like okay. Is that always hard for you when you get off a flight into the room? Always. Yeah. Even even even on at home, it's it's always hard to sleep the night I after a game. Um so do you ever go on the road after a game, you fall asleep that last 10 minutes of the flight, you can't fall asleep for like 3, four hours. It just killed me on the way back 5:04 from Denver. I hate I hate it. It killed me on the way back from Denver. Oh my goodness. It killed me on the way back from Denver, you know. So, we're in Portland and um you know, I get my I get my rehab, my treatment. I was like, "Okay, this is the I have to get my body moving. You know, I can't wait till 7 at night. I got to get my body moving. I get the treatment, the rehab. I get in there and I get down around like um like 12:30, 1:00, and usually I catch the first bus, which is uh usually three and a half hours before the game. So, 7 o'clock game is like a 3:30 bus." I got to hear about that later. The thought on that, but go on, keep going. I get into bed at 1:00. I set my alarm for 2:30. It goes off. My body basically says, "There's no way you get out of this bed yet." So, I reset my clock again for the next bus. Supposed to be at 4. Body again. Long story short, I end up catching the last bus at 5:00. Like, I couldn't My body would not let me get out of bed. I needed to rest till 4 like 4:15. I finally got out of the bed. 6:06 Caught the five o'clock bus. um didn't shoot pregame. Got in, did some stretching, you know, did a little activation in the in the in the locker room, got ready to play, and um I was like, "Tonight ain't going to be the night, man. I score 40." I I I You've been there before. You've been there before. You don't panic. I didn't quit. You're like, "It might not be the night. Let me adapt." But let me see. Before you know it, crowd keep going start going. The motor gets going. You know, I always say like I'm like a 1965 Chevy Capri. So, I just needed a little bit of time on the highway. Go rev it up. Get a little smoke out of the engine. Yeah. And then I was ready to go. But it's interesting because I think like the common fan and even maybe a lot of players, you know, nowadays we have all the bells and whistles for recovery, right? Yeah. For sure. Massage, compression, hot cold. Hot. Hyperbaric. Y% of your recovery. 99% is sleep. It's the by far the greatest. I said it after the game. They asked me how I said I I 7:08 just slept as much as I could. Yeah, that's it. And and that's the thing like that's got to be a habit if you want to be successful, you want to prevent injury, you want to be able to say, I don't have it tonight, but I'll give myself a chance. I get 40, right? Like like but that's a part of the discipline of sleeping and staying as you know because a lot of times you know like we travel just this is for the fans, right? travel you get in and out late nights, planes, different cities, time zones, the the accumulative effect of the season. Not complaining. It's it's amazing. Yeah, for sure. But like your clock is a mess. Like trying like that's why like I had I wasn't a great sleeper so I had to nap like every day like really for the days when I wasn't going to sleep, right? And it's cumulative sleep. Like you have a bank account is the way sleep works. Absolutely. Right. So, like if you're trying to get eight to nine a day, like sometimes you're going to get five or six and how are you going to make up the deficit, right? So, napping, the discipline to go to bed early, all those things are so important. No, my my wife literally she's the best ever. She gets 8:10 mad at me when it's time for me to go to bed. That's how much I love sleep and take care of my body. Like, like, babe, about 9:00 at night, I'm like, "What time? What time you going to bed?" She like, "You going to sleep?" Yeah. Like, I am going to bed. Do you like preempt it with like like you you want to hang a little tonight because if you want to like get dinner like have a glass of wine, we better do it at like 5:36. That's that's that's my household too. Absolutely. But I I'm interested in how you've done this over throughout the years. And so maybe I was thinking we could start like with how the calendar looks for you. So like if you don't mind like the season ends. Okay. Let's start now. It's a new season. So that's our January one as basketball players in a way is like when the season ends, right? How is your approach to the offseason and especially those first three, four weeks? Yeah, those first three or four weeks is literally I try to get away from actually me playing basketball. Am I away from the game? Absolutely not. I'm either I'm watching the game or I'm in the gym with my boys and I'm watching them prepare and playing either they're 9:09 in tournaments or whatever the case may be. But me personally, I try to give myself, especially at this point in my career, an opportunity for all the little nicks and crannies and bruises, whatever, to give itself to recover. And uh and obviously I've learned over the years that, you know, me recovering at 40 is totally different in offseason than me recovering at 25. You just don't you don't recover as fast. So, um I try to take like a a month, maybe a month and a half off from like really like grinding on the basketball court. for what I am doing. Yes, you know, I'm doing yoga and pilates and stretching and you know, and you know, massaging and, you know, cupping and all those things that try to help, you know, rejuvenate my body to when it's time without no wear and tear. you know, if I'm running, if I'm running, try to run in one of the like the the Ultra G uh you know, um treadmill where you can you can lessen the load or doing more pool workouts where you lessen the load on your limbs and and joints and things of 10:10 that nature. So, that's what kind of like my first six to eight weeks look like, you know, after the season, you know, because I'm still traveling, you know, with the kids and with the family. So, you know, obviously that's information when you anytime you get up in the air, but you know, I'm able to to to kind of take care of my body then for those first six to eight weeks. But I think it's important point like and I I think you'll agree like I didn't believe in taking much time off off especially as you get older. When you get older, you stop moving, you might not get it back. So like continuing to do like the bits and bobs and having the regenerative effect but still moving the body synovial fluid like No, you're right. Cuz if you if you completely just shut down like and do nothing, then you you won't do nothing, right? Yeah. You won't do nothing. You start get comfortable with it. You're like, I don't like this feeling, but Yeah. I don't you know, it's like the principle that the body is an adaptive system. So, we we do what we teach it, right? So, if you run, you become someone that can just can run. If you sit on the couch 11:10 and do nothing, you're someone that's adapted now to doing nothing. So, when you ask yourself to do something like this, this is dangerous. like, you know, for for what we're trying to do, you know, get out back out on the court and running around, things fall off, right? So, it's really important, I think, to like it's like almost active recovery movement. So, I'm interested that you felt that way, too. But then the mental side, too, right? Like getting a little bit of space from the game, the grind, right? So, that when you do four, six, seven weeks into the summer get back at it, you like there's a little spark, a little bit of excitement, make you miss it a little bit. Yeah. And that's what you I think once you get to those, you know, plus 15 years in the NBA, you you're always trying to find, you know, the little moments of inspiration, you know, it could be from anything. It could be just the inspiration for the midst of the love of the game. Yeah. You know, you've taken taken time away from it and I'll miss it. I want to get back to it. Um it could be inspiration from, you know, your kids. Yep. You know, hanging around your kids no matter what 12:05 sport they're playing. It could be basketball. It could be soccer. It could be, you know, whatever they're playing, you're just seeing the competitive juices. So, you're like, "Okay, now I miss it." Or, um, it could just be now it's time to click back in, you know, because you still feel like you still have more time. You still feel like I have more to give. Yeah. And you want to be sharp and you you you know, this usually the season doesn't end in a championship, so you have motivation from failure. Like you want to be more prepared. So, like giving yourself that space, it revs up that motivation, which is huge, right? Like, absolutely. You know, it's it's a little bit a part, I'm sure, of of your journey is like, you know, I try to tell this to young players, but like a coach could give us a workout. Here's what I want you guys to do, right? And like you and I doing it can be totally different, right? I did it, but like you attacked it, right? Like you went after it. Like so the approach, the habits that you have for how you work is so important. And sometimes you need a little bit of space to say, I'm ready now. I got the spark that I'm that my habits are coming back 13:01 that I every day I'm competing in everything I do whether it's the gym, it's mobility, stability, activation, recovery, like I could skip the cold. No, no, that's not me. I'm I'm going to do the every little step. Yep. And I and I think the the best thing about it is like when it becomes just a a way of life. Yep. And and it's not even about because you're an athlete. is because it's a part of your life. Mhm. You know, you want you you you may not all the time, you know, you know, I know when I'm done playing basketball, I won't be going to the to the gym every day, working on my game anymore, but as far as training and still um doing things for my body, active recovery, mental mentally recovering mentally, you know, grounding, you know, things that I'm going still do all the stuff that I've done besides the basketball portion when it comes to my lifestyle will not change. You know, I fell in love with 14:01 the hyperaric chamber, the hot and cold tub, the plunges, the massages, the uh everything, the grounding, just going out and sitting in the grass and just yeah, you know, just literally literally just letting go, you know, and all of that stuff. So, those things are a part of life now. And when you're able to incorporate the the active life skills into now into a profession as well, it it unlocks a lot. Yeah, for sure. They say sleeping obviously, like you said, is most important. They say in the habit science is like a part of forming a habit is identifying with it. So like you now identify with this lifestyle. You identify with every spoke in the wheel of success, right? So I that I'm a little bit like you in that like I can't sit still. Like my career is long gone now. I've been out of the game for 10, 11 years. I can't like sit still. How long? 40 when I retired. So yeah, I just turned 51. So coming up on I think it's uh 14. So yeah, the 11 years. My last game was March of 14 Staples. So Oh my 15:04 goodness. 11 games. It does not seem that long. It feels that long to me. Now I feel old as [ __ ] Now you're the young man dunking on people. No, I feel so old. It's been 10 plus years since you played it. That's not No. Wow. Time flies. Wow. Time flies. My daughters are in college. All that stuff. You look great, man. You said 51. Freak. Well, let's cheers to that. Cheers, man. Uh I get glimpses of myself in the mirror every once in a while and I'm like, "Oh, oh, [ __ ] no, man. You look [ __ ] great." 51. I would have never guessed that. Thank you. [Music] You know, as someone who's always looking for that next rush, whether it's driving the lane or threading the needle, we get it. You need that excitement. And let me tell you, I found it in Audible. No joke, these audio books have me on the edge of my seat. Whether on a long drive or in a recovery session, from heartpounding thrillers to epic adventures, these stories have you on the edge of your seat like you're right in the middle of the action. They've got these Audible originals that 16:04 are absolutely amazing, plus all the bestsellers you've been meaning to check out. The best part, you can get started with a free 30-day trial at audible.com. Audible knows there's no greater thrill out there than yours. Discover what lies beyond the edge of your seat on Audible. Sign up for a 30-day free trial at audible.com/game and dive into a world of new thrills. That's audible.com/gam. [Music] Okay. So then you get back in the gym. Yeah. Right. That part of the summer where it's like, okay, I got to get my game sharp. Yeah. Yeah. Are you at the place still where you still add or you just like get sharp again, get sharp again? Um I'm a place where it's more just sharpening sharpening everything, right? You know, um I have, you know, yeah, I'm not in ad mode, you know. I feel like I I've um gotten to a point where um what I bring to the game. Yeah. 17:05 You're comfortable with the foundation. I'm comfortable with the foundation of my game. Um, but it's just all about sharpening. So, if it was one summer where I felt like I didn't shoot the ball particularly well, either in catch and shoot, then I I spent a lot of time in catch and shoot. If it was a point in time where I felt like I my my post game and and uh wasn't, you know, as efficient I wanted to be, then I I do that. If it was a point in time where I feel like my ball handling wasn't as good as I I would like for it to be, I'm never gonna be Steve Nash or Kyrie Irving when it comes to ball handling, but I can be myself. Uh, then I I work on that a little bit more. So yeah, it's just about sharpening, you know, the foundation in my game at this point. But I bet you add experiences, right? Like where you're like this situation, maybe I should try something else. Is that does that process happen for you postseason summer? Like next year I need to exploit this situation in either a different way or exploit it more instead of giving this one away. I can double down here. You know what? You know, it comes from where's the game going? 18:06 you know, I've I I've been in the league and obviously like you said, you know, your you said your last game was in 2014. So that mean I was with you for 11 years competing or or you know, whatever the case may be. Either in multiple uniforms you in I was in multiple uniforms. But I've seen the game when I came into the league, it was the two bigs. Y it was a pretty much one guy would handle the ball and then you had your two wings. Yeah. you know, and probably up until about, you know, I guess 2008, 2009, you started having more players handle the ball, you know, um but you still kind of still had the same two bigs, you know, thing. And then you went into Phoenix and changed the whole two bigs. Nope. No, one big. Yeah. You know, I need one rim roller or one guy that can sprint down the floor, beat everybody down. If you're if you're down there, you beat the big, kick it ahead to you. If not, you come set the drag screen, we gonna spread the game out. Um, you know, and we adapted that in 19:08 Miami when Bosch became the five, you know, and you know, we see what the game is now. And now today it's almost five out, right? You know, five out. All everyone's shooting threes. So, I think when it came to the off season, I always wanted to have the adaptability and the growth mindset to be able to change with the game where I was I will still be productive. no matter what the game called for. Makes sense. And I think that's what that's what it's like not like you didn't have it in your package. It was just like I need to bring out more of this. Yeah. What did the game cause for? Did the game cause for me to be more of a pick and roll player? Did the game cause for me to be a guy that slash or, you know, Yeah. slash more without the ball, you know? Did the game cause for me to shoot me a few more threes? You know, that's where it is today. So, you know, you work on those aspects to where you're still effective, you know, and you can still adapt and have a growth mindset with the game. So, when you're working out in the summer, you're getting back in the gym, how how many days a week and how long are you in the gym with the ball? Um, when I'm 20:10 super locked in, I'm I'm in there five days a week, Monday through Friday. Um, Saturday is a recovery day where I do absolutely nothing. Sunday is more of a now starting to, you know, get the body work done and get my mind ready for the long week again. I try to on Saturday just kind of get away from it, you know, you know, summertime, just get away from it, you know, whatever it is. Um, but five days a week I I'm in there and it's usually like Monday is Monday is usually the toughest day. You know, obviously you're coming off the weekend, two-day weekend. Um, it's usually the most, you know, strenuous day. Um, uh, Tuesday is a lot of like, um, a lot of running, but a lot of just catching, shooting, getting your legs back under you. And then hump day is Wednesday, you know. Hump day is Wednesday. And I, once you get over that Wednesday, the rest of the week is pretty right. You know, cuz that middle of the week is almost and the body is now caught up a little bit. You can get through it. Yeah. So, you know, I'm trying to go five days a week once 21:11 I'm locked in for like the for like eight to 10 weeks coming into the season. And are you doing manual therapy physio before every session? Yeah. Yeah, I'm getting there. I usually lift. I usually I usually lift three days out of the week where I'm like in the weight room lifting and then the other two days I'm just doing like, you know, the ball work, band work, just kind of mobility stuff. Yeah, exactly. That's one thing I think like is is changed from the start of my career for sure, but probably start of your career too to now is like like it's it you have to I believe you have to be religious with the mobility stability stuff cuz the way our games played you know and today it's even faster guarding in more space the travel like you have to stay on top of like we I mean when I came in and obviously when you came in everybody was like this right right you know it's like who can lift the most weights you know who who's the strongest that's the only way you could play right you know and that's the narrative You know, thankfully for me, it changed because I wasn't going to out Well, those those [ __ ] that look like this realized they couldn't keep up with your ass, you know? That's 22:13 why it changed. You helped change it, you know? So, I remember coming to the league and like being shocked at like how strong like Derek Harper was. Yeah. Like pick me up full court and like, you know, grab he just grabbed me by the hip and I was like, "Oh, I don't know if I can go anywhere." Like I was like, well, how am I going to break through this? you know, and so like you of course you adapt, you learn, but like the games come so far from like you said the two bigs, the clutching, grabbing, chucking, the the the hand checking up the court. Like man, it was stodgy back in the day. Right. Right. Yeah. For sure. For sure. Absolutely. That's the thing like and we'll get to this later in the series, but like the talk around sometimes, you know, some people aren't as happy with the way the game is. Like we need to help teach fans like how great the game is now. Like it's not going back to that. It's a lot of nostalgia. those other factors, but like the game is great and we need to teach people to appreciate. Yeah. We just need to I think have an appreciation and I think if if if our if our if our fans will really go back and watch some of those games, right, they will realize then 23:15 maybe that's not something we would want to see on a nighttoight basis. Agree. you know, cuz the the the the difference between our game now is that all of our games are on television every single day, either either uh nationally, locally, or through um League Pass. So, you can watch all of our games in the in the 80s and the 90s, you may be able to catch one game if you had it locally. If your if if your team had a local broadcast uh deal, you could catch it. And if not, then you may not see a game, right, for a long time. Let's, you know, like the NB NBC NBC. Yeah, NBC broadcast maybe once once every you maybe catch one or two games, you know, every other week. So, you know, I think the nostalgic and celebrate our game of basketball today, our athletes of today. Sure. um just like you know the 60s and 24:17 70s and 80s and 90s guys were celebrated and 2000 guys were celebrated. So it's definitely a conversation we get to later. I'm excited about that for sure. But how about this? What when at what point in the summer are you like I want to get in game shape and how do you is it like September? Is it in training camp you prep to get there in training? How do you do that? Well I can we both can tell everyone out there there's no way to get in game shape in the offseason, right? No. But what you can do is get in the best optimal shape leading up to the and then the step before there nobody can come into training camp and say I'm in game shape. It just doesn't happen. Um so you know I I try to get into the best shape I could possibly be in leading into September. So, you know, when it gets to about, you know, after the first week of August, you know, um, you know, I I start then to now start to like push, you know, a little bit. I start ramping it up. I start ramping them up. So, every every 25:18 week I ramp it up a little bit more, ramp up the intensity, uh, ramp up, you know, the the conditioning portions. You know, I start knowing when I'm getting in better shape when I need when I don't need as many breaks for water, right? You know, that's kind of like my gauge, you know. Okay, I'm fitter this week. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, like if I'm if I'm doing a 45 minute court workout and every five to seven minutes, you know, through that 45 minutes I'm getting a drink of water, I'm like, "Okay, I got to I got to get better." Okay. Then, okay, the next week it's like every 3 to five minutes, right? And then it's two to four minutes and then it's one to two minutes and then it get to a point where I've only needed one break in 45 minutes. That's when I know like, okay, I'm in I'm in really good I'm in a really good pace. And maybe you could explain through the stages of your career, but like when do you start playing and like what like in your first third of your career, first seven years, how much did you when did you start playing? Oh, 505. Yeah. Oh, I used to play I mean I probably my first [Music] uh wow probably my first 12 14 years I I 26:21 played all through the summer. I mean it's because you love the hoop. I just love the hoop. Like I used to play out I used to play outdoors. I like I played outdoor basketball as a pro. I had no idea how bad that was for me. But I was like I [ __ ] love ball. Like me and my friend I go back home in the summertime, you know. Um you know back in Akran, obviously I play for the Cavs, but I would be back in Akan. Me and my my best friends that come back from college, we get a group of we'd be playing outside play outside like like it was nothing. The sun is beaming off the off the off the top. Yeah. It's funny you say that. like uh when I was at like my prime in my career and my even like first three four years in Phoenix in the summer go to the facility you know do all your work play whatever I always wanted to shoot again. Yeah. So I always tried to shoot again like just how efficient can I be? So in Phoenix it's 110 115 degrees. I would go to the park sometimes the driveway but I would go to like a random park cuz no one's going to be there and I back then yeah right back then the iPod you know what I mean and like make 200 shots. No rebounder, just 27:22 out there because I would get my own rebounds. Conditioning it's hot. It's funny you said that. Like did you ever have like was like fans showing up when you're playing in the park? Oh yeah, for sure. So you had to kind of like be smart about it. We had to be smart about it. Yeah, for sure. We had to be very smart about it and then I got very smart and kind of built a little full court outdoor court at my house in Akran and I would have literally I I would have teammates come over runs, you know, and my best friends and we have runs in the backyard like on the black top. Yeah, that's amazing. like yeah it was that's great memories and then like say the last seven years like do you still play pickup before the season or do you like not not as much no not as much you know um just the wear and tear just the wear and tear and the risk you know especially like if if if I do it early in the season I mean early in the off season then I have the ability to kind of if anything was to happen I have the ability to recover but then it's like I'm but my body's still recovering early in the summer and then it gets to the point where like late August hits and I'm like, do I want to risk, you know, 28:21 I' I've I've trained my body. I know where I'm at. I know I'm physically fit and ready to go into training camp. Do I really want to risk it? You know, so every now and then, you know, during the workouts, like I I'll play, you know, oneonone, you know, or, you know, compete versus, you know, the coaches that's there, you know, get that kind of get some live reps with the coaches bump they bump you off screens or they bump you in the post or things of that nature. So, yeah, but I haven't I haven't played as much five on five over the last few years. So that that two three first two three weeks of preseason is your time to adapt to the demands of playing to feel the bumps and bruises, the soreness, get the wind, you know, from from here from low back all the way down here, you're cooked. Yep. Adaptation process you have to go through. There's no cheating. No matter how fit you are, no matter how much running, no matter. That's when you know it's working. That's when you know it's working. when you're when you can't feel anything from your from from here all the way down and you're like, "Oh my god, this I I can't like you're like I hate getting out of shape." It's like, 29:20 "Oh, but I wonder how people other people feel that hasn't done anything." So, it's like, you know, you just got to stay tapped in. Yeah. You I mean, you got to go through that because you can't do it 12 months of the year, right? So, you have to get out and get back in. You have to build up smart, especially as you get in your 30s, late 30s. You got to be smart about it. Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's shift to the season then. Like maybe I I'm I'm always curious about this and and it's it's pretty common. I think fans probably know this now. Like they always say in the NBA you got to have a routine. Yeah. Right. Because you play so many games in different cities, different gyms, like pattern, sleep patterns, all that. So making sure you have a routine kind of just keeps you accountable. So you're not like making it up as you go along. And it's definitely for me I would say like the top 20 guys in the league like 19 of them are like religious religious if not 20 about their routine about what shots they need all the prep recovery diet sleep all that stuff. How do you approach I'd love to start with a practice day and then a game day and show like what does your day look like 30:16 and how do you manage it? Yeah, for sure. I mean, for for a practice day, um, you know, if we're if we're practicing at 11:00, I like to get to the facility, you know, around um probably around 8:30, you know, to start my work. Breakfast at the facility, breakfast at home. Not until I don't eat until after practice. After practice. So, hydrate. So, I'm hydrating. I have like either like a green juice or or or um or some fruit or whatever the case may be. But I don't I don't eat a full meal until I get back home after practice. And that's usually around like my first meal is usually around like 1:30, 2 o'clock. And by design or you just don't like eating before? By design. By design. So that little bit of a fasting quality. A little bit of fasting quality. Yeah. By design. And are you taking supplements? Yeah. Creatine? Uh no. No creatine. No, just just natural uh everyday vitamins, things like things of that nature. Yeah. Just a little protocol of vitamins. If I if I have anything after practice, I have like a fruit smoothie. Okay. You know, because I've burnt so many calories or whatever. I have a fruit 31:16 smoothie or some like some overnight oats. Yep. Before you meet. Um so I get there um and I usually get dressed and go to the weight room. Um I'm usually in a weight room uh for about 45 minutes. Every day or different days? Different days. Different days. If we had a couple days in between hand, I I'll go to the weight room then and cuz I like to lift on game day as well. Y um so I'll go to the weight room and then I'll So your lifting schedule does isn't predicated on game day practice day. It's on the day like what have I done? I have a lift. What have I done? Yes. What have I done? Like uh like for for this week, so say for inance for this week, today we had a day off. Um so this morning was predicated on all rehabbing, uh body work, things of that nature before I got here. Um, so I I didn't know strengthening, whatever the case may be. Tomorrow we have a game. Um, I'll go in early and I'll get a lift in before and then right after I lift, I'll shoot, you know, early 3, four hours, five hours before the game start because it's a back to back on Friday. I probably won't 32:17 lift that day. It'll be more of a recovery work and then a little bit of shooting as well just to prep me for the game. Um, so yeah, it's it's I I have schedules dependent on how the games are flowing throughout the season, right? That um that's routine with the schedule. And do you but you go in the gym almost every day to do activation, mobility every day, non-negotiable. For sure. Same. And then like do you, and this is probably a little bit of a summer question, but in the season, do you break it up into like a strength block, a power day, you know, like do you break it up in like, you know? No, I do a little bit of total body type stuff. maintenance, total body, everything. In the summer, do you break it up like do you No, in the summer I break it up cuz And the difference between like obviously you would know like in the you like to break it up in the summer because you don't want to get like you don't want to get stale. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For three months you're doing the same [ __ ] like you so you you definitely break it up on purpose so you don't get tired of the same routine. And also they can target in on a specific thing like today we're working on power, today 33:16 we're working on strength, whatever it may be. Exactly. So for like during the season, it it's kind of the same a little bit change up, but it's it's the same routine because it's a cadence. You know, my body is I know my body is going to react well to it. No matter what I'm doing, my body is formed and and it knows exactly how I was going to get the most out of it for those games, right? And like the demands, you know, make it almost impossible to get gains anyway. So if you break it up too much like of course you have to touch on these things but you can do that in a total body workout where you touch on it for maintenance rather than focus in on like biometric stuff you know so that's interesting and then for sure game days uh maybe give me the rundown on game or let me go back to practice days what are your preferred recovery modules like do do you massage compression hot and colds hyperbaric cryol use them all? It could be all of those on a day, you know, and I try to maximize as much as I can. If if it's a practice day, I I try to get the massage in, the cold tub in, um the you know, we have the the normch legs, 34:18 you know, to the compression unit, the ice bags, um I try to get it all in, use them all. Yeah. Various. Plus a nap. Yep. You know, when I get home after practice, most important, get a nap in. you know, when I wake up, you know, I'll either depending on how my body's feeling, I can I have some things at home where I can put my foot in a foot bath, knees, everything. Just I'm trying to maximize how can I be to optimal shape and game ready for the next day. I'm always thinking about the next day. You're obsessed. Yeah. I love it. You're obsessed. I love it. I feel I mean that's this is, you know, kindred spirits in that way because you want to leave no stone unturned for a performance. If if I Why Why? It's all there for us. It's off there for us. And you know, I I have um I have the luxury of having unbelievable wife and help around the household to where they allow me to be able to use all my time while I'm playing the game. And listen, I I know I got I'm I'm I'm when I'm done playing the game, that time will be pri 35:19 priority number one will be my wife. it would be my wife, my kids, you know, and and I just thank them for allowing me to have me as priority number one while I've had this profession. Um, I they've allowed me to do that and I know it's not always been like, you know, great roses and it's been, you know, amazing, but they've allowed me to make myself priority number one in my profession of how I treat my body, how I how I do things, how the hours that I put into it in order to be the best I can be. And uh and I'm I have to I have it's only right I I give give that back when I'm done. But it doesn't work otherwise, right? Like you you have you have not if you want to be not if you want to be a mate. Not if you want to be great. If you want to be great or you want to keep playing or you want to keep playing, right? You want to extend your career beyond where you're supposed to play, you know, that balance like how you handle the stability of home life, but you have to be selfish. Yeah. Right. So, and the family has to understand like it's I mean selfish is a is the wrong word, you know, committed. Yeah. Is the word. I'm committed to my craft, my career. But 36:19 that family stability allows gives you a platform right where you're not worried like we're good over here that I can go to work and do my thing. And definitely it's it's worked wonders, man. Um it's it's been amazing. I've definitely I've picked the right woman and that uh and I've, you know, the kids have come along and they've, you know, accepted the fact that what I wanted to accomplish and and I've tried to just pour into them when I have the ability and and do the things that I can as a father. But I've always wanted to be um I've always wanted to be as great as I could be, you know. I I I never knew what it was going to I never knew what it looked like, but I knew my craft and I knew my passion for wanting to be great. Yeah. You know, I didn't know what what the end result was. And that goes back to what we first talked about when we first started this was the process, right? I knew I was in love with the process and and and I didn't know what I was going to get out of out of the process, but all all I've seen as I've grown up and when I've played the 37:20 game of basketball that when I fell in love with the process, rewards was at the end of the tunnel and and I've never worried about it was never the other way around. It was never the rewards are at the end of the tunnel. Yeah. And then I worry about the process. It was always about the process. Your reward was the process. My reward was the process. Yeah. I mean it's a great honestly it's a great example uh your family you know the way you've been able to manage both your family's helped you build a platform to strive for greatness constantly and that's that's just I mean that's I think one of the greatest parts about your career is not like the Wikipedia page right it's like the way you've done it like man I've made thousands of mistakes like I don't you I have you made a couple I don't know like you've done so much so long in the spotlight I love that example for people out there for society for kids. Um, so that that's kudos to you and your your wonderful wife and family and your kids represent your family incredibly well, too. Um, let me ask you this. Uh, game days. You're there so early. Like, 38:21 you're This is year 22. You're there how many hours before the game? Uh, five. Five hours before the game. Like that type of I mean, first of all, I think you're crazy. Like I you know so first like I wanted to be there an hour and 40 so that I could get there and be like bap bap bap like total efficiency. What is so you what is your frame of mind like I want to be there all day basically? Um I want to give myself the time to prepare how I know I would like to prepare to get ready for for for match. Um, you know, and what what I do is it's all all my time is is I it's no Yeah. There's no fat. Yeah. There's no [ __ ] around time. Once I get to the arena, you know, I get there five hours before. As soon as I get there, I put my my workout gear on. I go right to the weight room. As soon as I leave the 39:21 weight room, I go to the court, get a workout. As soon as I leave the court, I go get body work and and make sure that my body is moving and and and doing those things with my body. As soon as that is done, you know, I I head in and and put the the normex and the ice and all that stuff on and recover from that. As soon as that is done, now I'm reading the scouting report like and I'm, you know, tapping into that. Pretty much when that is done, now JJ's coming into the locker room and he's addressing the team. Yeah. Yeah. And and it's time to go. Like that is And I have a And I have a little meal in there, too. I'm eating. I have a little meal, couple snacks there within there. Obviously, I want to keep the, you know, keep my nutrition going and and I have to fuel the body because I know what I'm about to do out on the floor. But that that time is is it's it's it's occupied. All intent and purpose. Yeah. Yeah. See, like it's all intent. I had to get away. Yeah. So, I was the opposite. Like I wanted to be there and I had my thing, 40:21 you know, like go in right away, body work, activation, shots, taped, go coaches walking in. Like I wanted to be like, cuz you know, we play so many games. I don't want that wasted energy. I think maybe that's one thing that I wasn't great at is that I would waste like that anxious performance energy if I was there too early. I want to save that. No, no, for sure. I can see that. I can see that. And and and I'm getting to the I have not gotten there obviously because I'm still doing it. But there are times I'll be like, "What the [ __ ] are you doing?" Well, I'm glad you in Portland, you were like, "Let me hit the hit the alarm again." Like, I had no control over that. This body took over me. It was like, "You're I'm not letting you out of this bed." Right. But there there are time I mean, I I I can see for sure. I mean, I'm 40 years old. I've been in this thing for 22 years. So, like, you know, I definitely feel and see it, sens it sometimes when I leave the house at like 1:00, game is at 7:30 and I'm, you know, and I'm pulling up to to the arena, pulling down in the tunnel at 2:15 in the afternoon for a 7:30 game and I'm like, that's all right, let's 41:22 get to work. Incredible commitment. Okay, postgame, like post game, like how dialed are you on nutrition? Are you uh like are you like I have a plan for nutrition at all times? Are you like 80% of my cheat mode? Like how do you manage nutrition? Um well obviously you know being home in a way is right different but no I'm I'm I'm pretty I'm pretty locked in on the nutrition side, you know, when it comes to what I put in my body is what I'm going to get out of, you know. And obviously you definitely have, you know, I definitely have cheats. Like I I [ __ ] love chocolate chip cookies and ice cream. And since I love ice cream, I have to get like the dairyfree ice cream and the the lowfat, you know, the non-gluten-free cookies. Like, I have to kind of cheat it that way. Me, too. But, but I love it. But I love it. That's like my vice. I love it. So, you know, you have to you have to know like, you know, you playing all these games. Your family think you're crazy for that. Uh, like when I go in the fridge and get myself like a yogurt popsicle and my 42:22 kids are like, "That's disgusting." At this point, they've accepted me for who I am. So, yes, they they early on there's literally you could go in my freezer and there's like three different carts cartons of ice cream in there. There's like one like it's like the Oh, like when my daughter goes in there, she gets her vanilla bean ice cream. It's like extra crearyy. I'll be looking at it like, damn, that looks so good. Oh my goodness, that's that's so good. And then mine over there is like, oh, you know, dairyfree and no all that. I'm like, oh yeah, just give me Yeah. Yeah, just give me that organic. Um, but yeah, I'm I'm pretty doubted in on and obviously like I said, you know, the road and and and being home, you know, is, you know, it it fluctuates a little bit, but you know, obviously, you know, the you're you're starting to the in order to be ready for the next game or the whatever it is, it starts right after the game ends and you sit down, you know. So, I'm I'm getting right to the ice and I'm getting right to, you know, nutrition and getting fluids back into me because I need to start preparing for the next game. So, um, 43:23 it's funny. A lot of people like see me like walking off the court, you know, when there's like time left in the game. Like, no matter if it's a loss or a win, the reason I'm do I'm trying to get to the locker room so I can start. You saw a clip from last night. Yeah, the game was a wrap. He's hungry. I got to get to the locker room to start my process to get ready for the next game. So, I'm I'll be sitting in the locker room foot on an ice bag, ice bags on. I'm I got my my smoothie and my fruit and I'm already getting to it right now. So, like that's amazing. Like people will probably see you leave the court and be like, "No, damn. He's you know." No, they had they had it was funny when I during a loss they was like, "Oh, he's a poor sport." Like leaving the quarter, they lost. Why? And then they start seeing me do it during the wins. They was like, "Huh?" Well, he's no sportsmanship. That's but that's a that's a great thing for fans to know like that's how dialed you are in your process is like I cannot wait for the next step in the process. You're not sitting there ready to like chest bump at the buzzer like let me get in this tub. Let's get this done. Let's 44:25 get the right food in. That's amazing. I mean I appreciate it. I was someone that tried to always look for every advantage, you know? I probably wasn't going to beat anyone in a race. the jumping contest, the lifting, you know. So, I always look for like to learn to to learn. So, like the the amount of time, resources, commitment you've put into your body, your craft, I think is an incredible example. I mean, listen, from outside looking in and like you said, we never had any conversations about it, but what you was able to do with your career, like you said, you wasn't the fastest, you wasn't the strongest, you wasn't the tallest, and you sitting with two MVP trophies, you know, and being able to to transcend a game of basketball like what what you did, you know, in Phoenix with Dan Tony and those guys, you guys brought a a level of expertise to the game that's still now being played. You know, the get the ball up like right away, you know, like we're not wasting no time, you know, and being able to play with 45:26 the with the pass, being infectious, things of that nature, and you being a catapult to bat because of your level of commitment to your craft. I don't think that's talked about enough in our sport. you know what's talked about is how high you can jump, how far you can shoot, you know your you know all these other how strong you are but I think what gets overlooked is the level of commitment to one's craft and that is why you're able to succeed you know because we we've seen it in sports we've seen the strongest guys don't make it. We've seen the most athletic guys don't make it. We've seen the guys with the best looking shot don't make it. We've seen the guys with the greatest handles don't make it. What is it that separates? What is it that separates? Obviously, opportunity sometimes has something to do with it. Obviously, circumstances has something to do with it. But there's something about the level of the process when it comes to your craft, right? And I don't think that's ever talked about enough, you know, when it comes to our 46:28 sport. That's an interesting topic actually. Like sports in general. Yeah. What are the non-negotiables? like what are the the the themes of greatness like you know like you said it does it just cuz you're the biggest, strongest, fastest doesn't make you great, right? Like it's to me it's kind of like resilience like intelligence, you know, like these are these are the characteristics like discipline. Yeah. discipline. If you have the discipline to work at your craft, to get better every day, to always have a growth mindset, you know, if you are able to read and react, able to learn on the fly, you know, you can go places like it doesn't matter how big. And so that's the beauty of this, finding the process, like sticking with it, hitting plateaus, not giving up, and not having all the answers or not thinking you know all the damn answers, right? being able to have that growth mindset, you know, even though you may be great now, how do you know it's going to be sustainable five years from now or 10 years from now? How can you continue to reinvent yourself to the point where 47:28 like, you know, it gets to the point where it wasn't your career didn't end 10 years ago because you gave up on the commitment of the process. Yeah. Wheels fell off. And and and it's by the way, control what you control. Yeah. That's it. Right. And you can't control that. And and but by the way, you sleep better at night. You're like, "Fuck, you know, I want I had more to give. I know I I know I was committed to the craft." But that's something that you can't control. That's something certain people can't control. And that's okay. Yeah. But how can you sleep better at night when you know that you've cheated the process or you didn't give everything that you had when you had all the opportunities to? You know that that's the thing that I knew for sure that I did not want to be a part of that conversation. Yeah. Because I knew I had the gifts. I saw I had the gifts. I knew I had the gifts. People were saying I had the gifts. I mean, I guess they know something something has to be going right. But in 48:30 order for me to actually fulfill my commitment and my gifts and fulfill what I think I can become, I have to be able to tap into the process and lock in on that. Well, I think that's an amazing message, a great place to stop. And if you listen the last 45 minutes, I think there's no doubt that you maximized your gifts. As prodigious as your gifts have been, as early as you were touted as a great, there's a long way from start to finish. And I think your process is what got you. are not your gifts. And so that's a great message and a great example for a lot of people out there in sport, without sport, all that. So I appreciate it and it was fun to hear about it. I appreciate you. We got what do we got? Another nine uh sit down. So hey, it's going to be great. Appreciate it. You know what I wanted to ask though is like you you need to bake into your day [ __ ] on time. It's just by design, not because you don't have a plan. So, I wanted to ask like what is it? Is it reality shows? Is it Madden? 49:31 That's what I was going to say. I heard it was Madden. Thanks for watching Mind the Game. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe for more content. [Music]